Socialism leads to....?

[Norman]

First of all, Europe is NOT socialist. The government spending on average is about 9% higher here than in USA. (41% vs 49.1%). Europe like USA is a mixed economy.

Second of all, I do think it's pretty well demonstrated that freer economies have a tendency to do better everything else being equal.

Besides that you can't simply compare "more or less government", you have to consider the form as well. For example in USA the government is incentivize everyone to spend and burrow, which is detrimental to long term growth. Somewhere else like China this maybe the opposite. Some governments distort the economy more some less. So it's not just the government size it's how it's run as well. Besides that this government is only a part in itself.

Governments are not constant anyway, in USA the government was way less than 10% in early 1900s, now it is 40%. I don't have similar numbers for Europe but I believe the governments used to be smaller as well as all the social security style programs were initiated later. At least Europeans were wise enough to not enact 100% ponzi style funded social security systems. Those will truly be the demise of USA.


And now for a comparison you can look at USA at 1900s and 2000s. Biggest debtor (>10% government) vs. biggest debtor (40% government). So yeah, not good. I believe the problem is democracy. In small homogenous european nations it's easier for voters to vote for what's best in the country. iIn USA it makes more sense to vote in ones self interest, which has caused this big spend and burrow mentality. Democracy unlike markets can not function if everyone votes in their self interest. But this is just my theory for why US FED government performs so much worse and above all short sightedly than most governments.


Someone brought up Switzerland here, which is actually more capitalist country than USA at 34% (7% difference) government spending. Europe has quite a big deviation.

 

[regent]

Sorry, no.

First you deny this "absolutist" statement...

Now we are talking "purely" Socialist

Then you make your own.....

Socialism is an economic system...not a political one

Socialism is NEVER a "purely" economic system.

[COLOR=]"Red"Socialism is an economic system characterised by social ownership of the means of production and co-operative management of the economy,[1] and a political philosophy advocating such a system. "Social ownership" may refer to cooperative enterprises, common ownership, state ownership, or citizen ownership of equity.[2]][/COLOR]

Socialism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It ALWAYS a Government enterprise FIRST.
Always.

What are you talking about? I denied nothing. You need to re-read for comprehension.

Socialism is not a political system. Democracy, Monarchy, Dictatorship......are political systems. You can have a socialist economy in any one of those. You are wrong. Please try harder.

Socialism is ALWAYS a combination of Gov and Economic policies.

ALWAYS.

Can't have one without the other.

Are typical families a form of socialism, or even communism?

 

[Antares]

What are you talking about? I denied nothing. You need to re-read for comprehension.

Socialism is not a political system. Democracy, Monarchy, Dictatorship......are political systems. You can have a socialist economy in any one of those. You are wrong. Please try harder.

Socialism is ALWAYS a combination of Gov and Economic policies.

ALWAYS.

Can't have one without the other.

Are typical families a form of socialism, or even communism?

Not sure what you are asking.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Sorry, no.

First you deny this "absolutist" statement...

Now we are talking "purely" Socialist

Then you make your own.....

Socialism is an economic system...not a political one

Socialism is NEVER a "purely" economic system.

[COLOR=]"Red"Socialism is an economic system characterised by social ownership of the means of production and co-operative management of the economy,[1] and a political philosophy advocating such a system. "Social ownership" may refer to cooperative enterprises, common ownership, state ownership, or citizen ownership of equity.[2]][/COLOR]

Socialism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It ALWAYS a Government enterprise FIRST.
Always.

What are you talking about? I denied nothing. You need to re-read for comprehension.

Socialism is not a political system. Democracy, Monarchy, Dictatorship......are political systems. You can have a socialist economy in any one of those. You are wrong. Please try harder.

Socialism is ALWAYS a combination of Gov and Economic policies.

ALWAYS.

Can't have one without the other.

Wow. You are a real thinker, ain't ya?

As some form of government paired with some kind of economic system is necessary for a nation to exist.......you are basically saying nothing at all here.

 

[Antares]

What are you talking about? I denied nothing. You need to re-read for comprehension.

Socialism is not a political system. Democracy, Monarchy, Dictatorship......are political systems. You can have a socialist economy in any one of those. You are wrong. Please try harder.

Socialism is ALWAYS a combination of Gov and Economic policies.

ALWAYS.

Can't have one without the other.

Wow. You are a real thinker, ain't ya?

As some form of government paired with some kind of economic system is necessary for a nation to exist.......you are basically saying nothing at all here.

LOL, your inability to comprehend issues is not my problem

Look I'm sorry you look stupid for trying to make the point that Socialism is a purely economical thing, it isn't.....it like every other economic system must have a Gov system to blend with, one that is pre-dispositioned to said economic system.

Sorry kid, you look stupid here.

 

[francoHFW]

As usual, Pub Americans always lapse socialism into communism., due to Cold War propaganda, I guess. Socialism is always democratic these days- call it social democracy to avoid confusion.

OP- Socialism leads to the highest form of civilization we have seen or ever will- it's just well regulated and fair capitalism. All the USA needs is Obamacare and a living wage ($11= 1968's min. wage) to qualify- maybe paid parental leave- like every other modern country.

 

[regent]

Of the ten or so different types of socialism, the Republicans have made only one their scare tactic, and that is Marx's Scientific Socialism; it was, according to Marx, the first step to communism. They tried it in the new USSR and it bombed, and they quickly dropped it. But it was a God-send for Republicans and they have used it ever since to frighten the bejabbers out of Americans as the inevitable result of any type of social program including Social Security. Now, after almost 100 years only a few still believe that socialism leads to communism. I often wonder how many still believe?

 

[francoHFW]

Nothing leads to communism. It's always put in by violent revolution. And it's in its final death throes...

 

[tooAlive]

OP- Socialism leads to the highest form of civilization we have seen or ever will- it's just well regulated and fair capitalism. All the USA needs is Obamacare and a living wage ($11= 1968's min. wage) to qualify- maybe paid parental leave- like every other modern country.

What the US needs is to stop spending money senselessly and set up a budget.

You can't raise taxes on the wealthy and expect them to raise wages as well.

 

[wjmacguffin]

OP- Socialism leads to the highest form of civilization we have seen or ever will- it's just well regulated and fair capitalism. All the USA needs is Obamacare and a living wage ($11= 1968's min. wage) to qualify- maybe paid parental leave- like every other modern country.

What the US needs is to stop spending money senselessly and set up a budget.

You can't raise taxes on the wealthy and expect them to raise wages as well.

While I agree that government spending needs to be cut, you CAN raise taxes on the wealthy and not have any impact on wages. First of all, the talk is about raising income taxes, not corporate taxes. Second, employment rates and wages have no correlation with national income tax rates. Unless I've missed the data, which I'm willing to concede. Anything?

 

[Antares]

Raising taxes on the rich will not cut the deficit...nor will it cure the debt problem.

 

[wjmacguffin]

Raising taxes on the rich will not cut the deficit...nor will it cure the debt problem.

It will not cure anything, but if we can both increase revenue and decrease spending, the deficit and debt problem will improve.

 

[LoneLaugher]

OP- Socialism leads to the highest form of civilization we have seen or ever will- it's just well regulated and fair capitalism. All the USA needs is Obamacare and a living wage ($11= 1968's min. wage) to qualify- maybe paid parental leave- like every other modern country.

What the US needs is to stop spending money senselessly and set up a budget.

You can't raise taxes on the wealthy and expect them to raise wages as well.

Blah....blah....blah!

Talking point pablum. Taxes on the wealthy have never been lower. If there was a relationship between tax rates and wages....wages would already be high.

Think!!!!!

 

[tooAlive]

Raising taxes on the rich will not cut the deficit...nor will it cure the debt problem.

It will not cure anything, but if we can both increase revenue and decrease spending, the deficit and debt problem will improve.

Not while the government keeps spending money like it grows on trees. Like the $6 billion he recently promised Asia for their development of green energy.

There needs to be a budget. No way around it.

 

[wjmacguffin]

Raising taxes on the rich will not cut the deficit...nor will it cure the debt problem.

It will not cure anything, but if we can both increase revenue and decrease spending, the deficit and debt problem will improve.

Not while the government keeps spending money like it grows on trees. Like the $6 billion he recently promised Asia for their development of green energy.

There needs to be a budget. No way around it.

Hence the "decrease spending" line.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Raising taxes on the rich will not cut the deficit...nor will it cure the debt problem.

It will not cure anything, but if we can both increase revenue and decrease spending, the deficit and debt problem will improve.

Not while the government keeps spending money like it grows on trees. Like the $6 billion he recently promised Asia for their development of green energy.

There needs to be a budget. No way around it.

Government spending money like it grows on tres? How about actually establishing that as fact before using it as the basis for your entire political and economic philosophy?

Show that the government is spending more needlessly now than it did during any administration since 1980. Thanks.

 

[regent]

Socialism is ALWAYS a combination of Gov and Economic policies.

ALWAYS.

Can't have one without the other.

Are typical families a form of socialism, or even communism?

Not sure what you are asking.

From each....
To each....

 

[Antares]

Are typical families a form of socialism, or even communism?

Not sure what you are asking.

From each....
To each....

Has nothing to do with a Family.

 

[tooAlive]

It will not cure anything, but if we can both increase revenue and decrease spending, the deficit and debt problem will improve.

Not while the government keeps spending money like it grows on trees. Like the $6 billion he recently promised Asia for their development of green energy.

There needs to be a budget. No way around it.

Government spending money like it grows on tres? How about actually establishing that as fact before using it as the basis for your entire political and economic philosophy?

Show that the government is spending more needlessly now than it did during any administration since 1980. Thanks.

Obama invests $6 billion on 'green'

Daily Kos: Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act of 2006

THIRTY MILLION TAXPAYER DOLLARS SPENT ON MANGO FARMERS IN PAKISTAN; Congressman Reed calls expenditure a ridiculous example of waste | Congressman Tom Reed

Federal Government Pays Dead Workers $120 Million A Year: Report

Just to name a few examples.

 

[francoHFW]

BS- Rev. Moonie News, etc.