So - what is the Tea Party Movement?

[uptownlivin90]

The Libertarians and like-minded groups were holding Tea parties and Tax Day protests for many years before Obama. Some groups date back at least to the Clinton Administration if not before. They were mostly small, local and not in the national spotlight, but those people I can respect even if I disagree with them.

The new Tea Partier movement is obviously a mixed bag. I have a hard time sorting out who's real and who's riding the bandwagon. Normal, regular people peacefully protesting for principle (how's that for alliteration?) always get my respect if not necessarily my agreement. The wanna-bes, bandwagoners, usurpers, those advocating violence and various pols wanting to co-opt it or profit from it don't. But as to which groups are which anymore, got me. There's too many to keep straight.

When and where? Did they use the Tparty name? Obviously not.

They did not and most affiliated themselves with the right or republican but I suspect this is a new play for the obamabots in order to try to redirect this anger away from them.

They did have that:
Boston Tea Party Freedom Rally

When Ron Paul rallied to get all of those campaign contributions they did call it the Boston Tea Party.

 

[Coyote]

Honestly, get information from sources outside the mainstream media. Then you would get a much more honest view of what the TEA parties are.

Mainstream media is far from my only source.

You clearly think they are a very new movement - post-Obama. In fact, they have been going for about 5 years, admitted much smaller and they have definitely grown since Obama took office.

Yes, I did for the main reason they really weren't very loud pre-Obama and I don't believe they even called themselves "Tea Party" until 2009 (at least I am not finding references) - that simply isn't just MSM's fault - outlets like Fox didn't cover them much either. In fact Fox didn't jump on the bandwagon until after Obama was elected. Before 2009 what did they call themselves?

In some states, I suspect they are mainly white but certainly not in California. My parent attended a TEA party locally and said that whites were actually the minority in attendance.

Ok, I'll take your and Pilgrim's word for it.

There is no actual evidence, although the MSM certainly claimed, that they bussed people in to town halls. Unlike the supporters, who actually did bus people in, and that was ignored by the MSM. Go figure.

There is considerable evidence that people from outside the district attended town hall meetings to disrupt them. Whether or not they were "bussed" in (or simply organized through word of mouth or car pooling) is irrelevant. The end result was the same kind of deception.

I find Code Pink to be rude and obnoxious. I think the TEA parties were certainly vocal and loud... but rude? No. Mad? Yea. They are plenty mad - not at Obama - at Government. Time and again, the MSM insist on making it about Obama. It is NOT about Obama - no matter who the POTUS was, the TEA parties would be equally as vocal.

I found them both to be extremely rude and obnoxious - chanting and yelling over someone's attemt to ask questions, give answers or hear the proceeding is, in my book - rude and obnoxious (and Obama has nothing to do with this aspect). No matter how angry I am about healthcare reform I ought allow the guy who maybe doesn't have health insurance and wants to hear what his representative has to say a chance to hear it too. They were everything that Code Pink was in behavoir and Code Pink's rudeness has come to define the anti-war movement in many people's views. But is it really? Is rudeness excused as "justified anger" the definition of a movement for either Code Pink or Tea Parties?

I'll admit - that more than anything else colored my view of the Tea Party movement and that may be very unfair of me but it was such a strident and over-riding voice that the more thoughtfull of it's followers were also drowned out. I am interested in what the more thoughtful have to say.

I think it's a shame that so many people seem to just accept the line taken by the media instead of finding out for themselves.

Just like everything reported in Fox should not be automatically dismissed out of hand because it's a biased station - neither should the msm. They can be right.

 

[ihopehefails]

in case you libtards forgot they were in full force at the townhalls last summer. will Osama send his troopers out again ?????

There new strategy is if you can't beat the tar out of them with your union thugs, humuliate them into silence with CNN, or ignore them then you co-opt them for your own purpose.

I fear that we will fall for this.

 

[uptownlivin90]

It actually started after the Obama administration got into office because you can't name one Tparty before that. I know that many obamabots are trying to co-opt it by saying the anger is Bush's fault but that is complete bullshit.

Giving them the benefit of the doubt that some of them ARE actually legitimate is really the best I can do. It's what helps me sleep at night.

Like I said... any organization that claims to have a "small government" "grassroots" ideology is illegitimate and based totally and completely off right-wing christian opposition to Obama.

It's time to call black black and white white, if your for small government... be for SMALL government... not just small government when it fits your bullshit agenda.

Has it every occurred to you that some people really don't care what you think is legitmate or not legitimate. You act like everyone should get your seal of approval in order for it exist. My question is what makes you so great that you can decide that?

Find me one nasty Tbagger comment made by CNN before Obama election? When you find all those nasty CNN stories about tparty movement then I'll think your opinion on the topic is 'legitimate'.

Nope. When you don't stand for anything and your preaching bullshit SOMEBODY'S gotta call you on it. I don't see any sense of conviction or any real ideology comming out of today's "tea bagger movement". The Libertarian Party and the many independents and conservatives that have been in the trenches since the Bush era... I respect. I don't respect a groups of christian rightists trying to hijack their causes to spread their agenda. Just like I don't respect gays who try to use the civil rights movement to further their cause... same concept.

Yeah I said it... the tea partiers today are a bunch of gays that wanna be black.

 

[ihopehefails]

Honestly, get information from sources outside the mainstream media. Then you would get a much more honest view of what the TEA parties are.

Mainstream media is far from my only source.

You clearly think they are a very new movement - post-Obama. In fact, they have been going for about 5 years, admitted much smaller and they have definitely grown since Obama took office.

Yes, I did for the main reason they really weren't very loud pre-Obama and I don't believe they even called themselves "Tea Party" until 2009 (at least I am not finding references) - that simply isn't just MSM's fault - outlets like Fox didn't cover them much either. In fact Fox didn't jump on the bandwagon until after Obama was elected. Before 2009 what did they call themselves?



Ok, I'll take your and Pilgrim's word for it.



There is considerable evidence that people from outside the district attended town hall meetings to disrupt them. Whether or not they were "bussed" in (or simply organized through word of mouth or car pooling) is irrelevant. The end result was the same kind of deception.

I find Code Pink to be rude and obnoxious. I think the TEA parties were certainly vocal and loud... but rude? No. Mad? Yea. They are plenty mad - not at Obama - at Government. Time and again, the MSM insist on making it about Obama. It is NOT about Obama - no matter who the POTUS was, the TEA parties would be equally as vocal.

I found them both to be extremely rude and obnoxious - chanting and yelling over someone's attemt to ask questions, give answers or hear the proceeding is, in my book - rude and obnoxious (and Obama has nothing to do with this aspect). No matter how angry I am about healthcare reform I ought allow the guy who maybe doesn't have health insurance and wants to hear what his representative has to say a chance to hear it too. They were everything that Code Pink was in behavoir and Code Pink's rudeness has come to define the anti-war movement in many people's views. But is it really? Is rudeness excused as "justified anger" the definition of a movement for either Code Pink or Tea Parties?

I'll admit - that more than anything else colored my view of the Tea Party movement and that may be very unfair of me but it was such a strident and over-riding voice that the more thoughtfull of it's followers were also drowned out. I am interested in what the more thoughtful have to say.

I think it's a shame that so many people seem to just accept the line taken by the media instead of finding out for themselves.

Just like everything reported in Fox should not be automatically dismissed out of hand because it's a biased station - neither should the msm. They can be right.

It would be better to dismiss people based on fact instead of a just ignoring things you don't like to hear.

 

[namvet]

Yet they embrace liars and nutbags.

.

and rapists with grenade launchers

its obvious you don't live in this coutry numb nuts​

 

[Coyote]

let us know when your space ship arrives ok ????

Thank you for your valuable contribution to this debate.

You may not go back to inserting little round pegs into square holes.

 

[ihopehefails]

Giving them the benefit of the doubt that some of them ARE actually legitimate is really the best I can do. It's what helps me sleep at night.

Like I said... any organization that claims to have a "small government" "grassroots" ideology is illegitimate and based totally and completely off right-wing christian opposition to Obama.

It's time to call black black and white white, if your for small government... be for SMALL government... not just small government when it fits your bullshit agenda.

Has it every occurred to you that some people really don't care what you think is legitmate or not legitimate. You act like everyone should get your seal of approval in order for it exist. My question is what makes you so great that you can decide that?

Find me one nasty Tbagger comment made by CNN before Obama election? When you find all those nasty CNN stories about tparty movement then I'll think your opinion on the topic is 'legitimate'.

Nope. When you don't stand for anything and your preaching bullshit SOMEBODY'S gotta call you on it. I don't see any sense of conviction or any real ideology comming out of today's "tea bagger movement". The Libertarian Party and the many independents and conservatives that have been in the trenches since the Bush era... I respect. I don't respect a groups of christian rightists trying to hijack their causes to spread their agenda. Just like I don't respect gays who try to use the civil rights movement to further their cause... same concept.

Yeah I said it... the tea partiers today are a bunch of gays that wanna be black.

Speaking of calling out someone's bullshit you still no evidence that the Tparty movement existed before Obama...

 

[Coyote]

Ding ding ding. And quite a few of them voted back in the GOP that spent money like drunken sailors during the 2000-2006 Bush/DeLay/Frist era.

I have very little respect for Johnny Come Lately's to the fiscal responsibility scene.

Some of them no doubt did. Does that make them less legitimate that they have finally woken up and seen the light? Is it not better to see the error of your ways and start working to change it?

What a stupid fucking post.

I was going to say something similar.

Some of the tea party people (me) were up in arms way back even before bush got re-elected...i was out in the street protesting the patriot act because it allowed the government to much access into my personal life, the governments job is to be fiscally responsible, protect me from foreign threats, and leave me alone.

My impression is the core of the Tea Party movement - is more libertarian/fiscal conservative then anything else?

 

[Coyote]

[
Didn't Obama renew the Patriot Act?

Are you surprised that someone in Federal Government voted to give the Federal Government more power?

I think that has less to do with it then the fact that once you are in office, you have access to a lot more information and, most of all - you are no longer responsible for just your campaign - you are responsible for balancing the safety of millions of people with the needs of a free society. That is something a lot of armchair generals don't understand.

I don't like the Patriot Act and don't agree with many of it's particulars...but I can see the other side of the argument.

 

[goldcatt]

The Libertarians and like-minded groups were holding Tea parties and Tax Day protests for many years before Obama. Some groups date back at least to the Clinton Administration if not before. They were mostly small, local and not in the national spotlight, but those people I can respect even if I disagree with them.

The new Tea Partier movement is obviously a mixed bag. I have a hard time sorting out who's real and who's riding the bandwagon. Normal, regular people peacefully protesting for principle (how's that for alliteration?) always get my respect if not necessarily my agreement. The wanna-bes, bandwagoners, usurpers, those advocating violence and various pols wanting to co-opt it or profit from it don't. But as to which groups are which anymore, got me. There's too many to keep straight.

When and where? Did they use the Tparty name? Obviously not.

They did not and most affiliated themselves with the right or republican but I suspect this is a new play for the obamabots in order to try to redirect this anger away from them.

Are you serious? Nobody's saying the modern "Tea Party" movement started in 2009 is the same as the protests that occurred previously, in fact the opposite. It has changed. Which is what makes it difficult to tell which groups are legit and which are just trying to co-opt or profit from the movement once it gained national media attention. There are just too many of them.

For just a few of thousands of sources on pre-2009 protests and the history of the Tax Day protests, mostly from Libertarian and Liberal groups and sources:

Glenn Harlan Reynolds: Town Hall, Tea Party protests have long history in America | Washington Examiner
Tax day protests and refusing to pay for war | Voices for Creative Nonviolence
http://www.goodjobsny.org/pdf/press_release.PDF
May 2001 Free? State Libertarian Day Protests Score with Mainstream Press
Libertarian Party: we had the Tea Party idea first | Independent Political Report

That's not to say conservatives and republicans currently involved cannot be or are not legitimate, but again, as an outsider only working from written sources and archives I reserve judgement. It's just too difficult to tell who's who.

 

[namvet]

let us know when your space ship arrives ok ????

Thank you for your valuable contribution to this debate.

You may not go back to inserting little round pegs into square holes.

and you can go back to posting bogus lies

 

[Coyote]

let us know when your space ship arrives ok ????

Thank you for your valuable contribution to this debate.

You may not go back to inserting little round pegs into square holes.

and you can go back to posting bogus lies

I'm posting my opinion and asking for the opinions of others. Thank you for yours.

It is most.....informative.

Don't you have some homework or something to work on?

 

[namvet]

Thank you for your valuable contribution to this debate.

You may not go back to inserting little round pegs into square holes.

and you can go back to posting bogus lies

I'm posting my opinion and asking for the opinions of others. Thank you for yours.

It is most.....informative.

Don't you have some homework or something to work on?

the end of democraps in Nov.

 

[ihopehefails]

The Libertarians and like-minded groups were holding Tea parties and Tax Day protests for many years before Obama. Some groups date back at least to the Clinton Administration if not before. They were mostly small, local and not in the national spotlight, but those people I can respect even if I disagree with them.

The new Tea Partier movement is obviously a mixed bag. I have a hard time sorting out who's real and who's riding the bandwagon. Normal, regular people peacefully protesting for principle (how's that for alliteration?) always get my respect if not necessarily my agreement. The wanna-bes, bandwagoners, usurpers, those advocating violence and various pols wanting to co-opt it or profit from it don't. But as to which groups are which anymore, got me. There's too many to keep straight.

When and where? Did they use the Tparty name? Obviously not.

They did not and most affiliated themselves with the right or republican but I suspect this is a new play for the obamabots in order to try to redirect this anger away from them.

Are you serious? Nobody's saying the modern "Tea Party" movement started in 2009 is the same as the protests that occurred previously, in fact the opposite. It has changed. Which is what makes it difficult to tell which groups are legit and which are just trying to co-opt or profit from the movement once it gained national media attention. There are just too many of them.

For just a few of thousands of sources on pre-2009 protests and the history of the Tax Day protests, mostly from Libertarian and Liberal groups and sources:

Glenn Harlan Reynolds: Town Hall, Tea Party protests have long history in America | Washington Examiner
Tax day protests and refusing to pay for war | Voices for Creative Nonviolence
http://www.goodjobsny.org/pdf/press_release.PDF
May 2001 Free? State Libertarian Day Protests Score with Mainstream Press
Libertarian Party: we had the Tea Party idea first | Independent Political Report

That's not to say conservatives and republicans currently involved cannot be or are not legitimate, but again, as an outsider only working from written sources and archives I reserve judgement. It's just too difficult to tell who's who.

I'm glad you agree that the modern Tparty movement didn't start before 2009. It started with Obama's super communist agenda, his trillion dollar spending, and etc. Don't you remember Rick Santorri's speech he gave on the stock trader floor?

You are trying to say that all anti-tax rallies that occured before that are the same thing and they are not. It is a much different thing that goes beyond anti-tax. The one in Texas wanted to depart from the union. The one I went to passed out jury nullification literture. This is something much grander than just anti-tax.

 

[Coyote]

The movement started right around the time GWB won his re-election and it was in response to his out of control spending and defecit growth. With the passage of tarp, the election of Obama and his agenda, along with the stimulus spending this same irresponsible spending by the government vastly increased. This swelled our ranks to ridiculously larger proportions. Many anti-obama people who just don't like him also joined the movement as they saw it as a way to express their feelings politically, these people are a minority in the group. Also Obama is now the President, and much like bush did over Iraq, he represents all that we see as wrong with the government, he is at the top and the buck stops at his desk.

Excellent Observation Coyote. You are fairly accurate here in your observation. We are not an organized group but instead just regular americans of all political, socio-economic, religious, and ethnic backgrounds who share a love of country and a concern that our congress and presdients over the last several years have just not been good at their jobs. We see the defecit and its crushing interest and impact on our nations economy and want it reduced.

Some people are trying to make it an official party or claim they started it or claim they are the original. In my opinion those people are the ones who want to use the sentiment for their personal, political, and/or financial profit. Its hard for an outsider to distinguish the difference.

1. Considering I have applauded Obama for a few of the decisions he made that I agreed with (Search threads started by me and you will see several where I actually thank him) I think this assertation is false. There are some who joined the movement just to "kick obama in the balls" which is where I think you get this impression from.
2. We definately oppose any further growth of our government or its role in our lives
3. Spot on and I think this is an area you probably agree with
4. Definately.
5. We dont oppose taxes, as we all know some are necessary, we just dont support raising them any further than they already are.
6. I disagree with this one as the one I went to in hyannis was about 25% hispanic 15% black and 50% white(yes the majority were white but so is the majority of american citizens). The one I went to in boston had a lot of cubans and one of the main speakers was a cuban immigrant who was railing against Obama's plans calling them "Just like what I left in cuba under castro" I've posted video of several black key-note speakers on the forum too but i can get more if you want.

I really like how you presented this last part as it is highly accurate again. The movement encompasses americans of all backgrounds which is why you find such diversity in the differing view between groups. Unfortunately populism has attracted some nefarious individuals and even more unfortunate is the MSM has propped them up as representative of the group as a whole.

In the end you are asking what the main message of the tea parties is so I will try and give you a mission statement below.

The main objective of the TEA parties is to bring back accountability to our elected officials. It is to hold the politician's feet to the fire caused by the decisions they make. The out of control spending of Bush and Obama is not acceptable, nor is the congress going right along with it. We want our government to become fiscally responsible and to stay out of our individual lives. Basically we want them to stay out of our way and to be responsible with the tax dollars they take from us.

Fiscal Responsibility (keeping taxes down, balancing budgets, reducing the national defecit) and accountability to the voters. That is the agenda IMO



I hope I helped you Coyote.

You helped a great deal Pilgrim - and I thank you for taking the time. It does seem though that like the anti-war movements, the Tea Party movement has becomed defined in the public's eye by it's most strident and extreme voices and media pundits with an agenda.

Often those aren't the voices that really represent it.

 

[Coyote]

and you can go back to posting bogus lies

I'm posting my opinion and asking for the opinions of others. Thank you for yours.

It is most.....informative.

Don't you have some homework or something to work on?

the end of democraps in Nov.

So you will vote Retardican then I presume?

 

[uptownlivin90]

Has it every occurred to you that some people really don't care what you think is legitmate or not legitimate. You act like everyone should get your seal of approval in order for it exist. My question is what makes you so great that you can decide that?

Find me one nasty Tbagger comment made by CNN before Obama election? When you find all those nasty CNN stories about tparty movement then I'll think your opinion on the topic is 'legitimate'.

Nope. When you don't stand for anything and your preaching bullshit SOMEBODY'S gotta call you on it. I don't see any sense of conviction or any real ideology comming out of today's "tea bagger movement". The Libertarian Party and the many independents and conservatives that have been in the trenches since the Bush era... I respect. I don't respect a groups of christian rightists trying to hijack their causes to spread their agenda. Just like I don't respect gays who try to use the civil rights movement to further their cause... same concept.

Yeah I said it... the tea partiers today are a bunch of gays that wanna be black.

Speaking of calling out someone's bullshit you still no evidence that the Tparty movement existed before Obama...

Because I'm lazy and don't give a fuck enough to spend hours searching myself... I'll refer you to post #51.

 

[goldcatt]

When and where? Did they use the Tparty name? Obviously not.

They did not and most affiliated themselves with the right or republican but I suspect this is a new play for the obamabots in order to try to redirect this anger away from them.

Are you serious? Nobody's saying the modern "Tea Party" movement started in 2009 is the same as the protests that occurred previously, in fact the opposite. It has changed. Which is what makes it difficult to tell which groups are legit and which are just trying to co-opt or profit from the movement once it gained national media attention. There are just too many of them.

For just a few of thousands of sources on pre-2009 protests and the history of the Tax Day protests, mostly from Libertarian and Liberal groups and sources:

Glenn Harlan Reynolds: Town Hall, Tea Party protests have long history in America | Washington Examiner
Tax day protests and refusing to pay for war | Voices for Creative Nonviolence
http://www.goodjobsny.org/pdf/press_release.PDF
May 2001 Free? State Libertarian Day Protests Score with Mainstream Press
Libertarian Party: we had the Tea Party idea first | Independent Political Report

That's not to say conservatives and republicans currently involved cannot be or are not legitimate, but again, as an outsider only working from written sources and archives I reserve judgement. It's just too difficult to tell who's who.

I'm glad you agree that the modern Tparty movement didn't start before 2009. It started with Obama's super communist agenda, his trillion dollar spending, and etc. Don't you remember Rick Santorri's speech he gave on the stock trader floor?

You are trying to say that all anti-tax rallies that occured before that are the same thing and they are not. It is a much different thing that goes beyond anti-tax. The one in Texas wanted to depart from the union. The one I went to passed out jury nullification literture. This is something much grander than just anti-tax.

Once again, your reading comprehension skills leave me speechless.

For the record, I don't care what anybody is protesting for or against. If they have the guts to stand up for what they believe in and get out there to get it peacefully and lawfully they have my respect whther I agree with them or not and whether they joined an already existing movement or not. I have a problem with hangers-on, opportunists, those who advocate violence and leeches who want to take advantage of other people's effort and courage, again whether I agree with them or not. It's the principle, stupid.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

It's a movement that started out legit. It stood for small government, fiscal responsability, troop withdrawl and against police the world, legislating morality, and forcing the government upon peoples lives. This started during the neo-con administration with the Libertarian Party and a few other groups reacting to the wreckless policies of the Bush administration.

That group is bound to continue during the Obama administration, because there's been very few differences between Obama and Bush so far. However, the "tea party movement" got into high gear as soon as Obama stepped into office, because a bunch of christian rightist nutjobs grabbed signs and started calling themselves "tea-partiers". If you ask them what they're concern is, it's mostly Obama's redical leftist agenda, meaning he threatens our "christian values" that we want to force down people's throats.

The tea partiers were hijacked by the christian right and the white backlash that came with the election of a black president. Obama represented everything the christian right hates during the campaign: liberty, choice, freedom and all that good shit (now what he's done in office is a different story, but I'm talking about the campaign).

It all breaks down to this: the tea party "movement" before Obama was a small group of young, intelligent intellectuals, the same people that were behind Ron Paul in 2008. The tea party after Obama became a large group of old uneducated rednecks and "christian rightists" that believe in "small government" unless it conflicts with their so-called "values". I've seen Ron Paul rallies, there are usually nice, clean-looking people (literally like they took a shower before the rally). The one tea party event I've been too or stopped by because I was interested it was in Charles County, Maryland... not so much.

It's kind of sad, but I judge it like this, any group that existed before 2008 is legitimate to me and worth listening to, any group that came in existance AFTER is just a group that's jumping off the opportunity to exploit the right-wing christian nut hysteria. This isn't astro-turf as much as it's blatant exploitation of stupidity.

This is the first post of yours I read. I like it.