So I'm a "Phony Soldier," Rush?

[maineman]

No he did not. He talked directly about what an FBI agent claimed occurred by Guards. Pretending other wise may make you feel better but it is not in fact the truth.

Remind me again how other liberals that post on this board haven't also called US troops mass murders, terrorists and "just like Nazi's". And then remind me where you even said one word against their opinion.

Here let me help you out, the two most posted ones being Larkinn and Ruby. Now I will grant that Larkinn just said he didn't mind that Ruby called them these things because in his opinion those words somehow didn't really mean anything special. And of course he played his usual word games about how since a couple soldiers have been tried for murders that meant mass murder ascribed to the entire military applied.

he talked directly about what an FBI agent claimed had occurred. Do you think that he was suggesting that the guards had decided to mistreat prisoners against the wishes and policies of the white house? lol

I have never read anything by Larkin or Ruby that calls our troops mass murderers. If I had ever read anything like that, I would have publicly disagreed with them.

I do think that our military brass knew full well that unleashing shock and awe on the densely populated city of Baghdad would kill large numbers of civilians.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

he talked directly about what an FBI agent claimed had occurred. Do you think that he was suggesting that the guards had decided to mistreat prisoners against the wishes and policies of the white house? lol

I have never read anything by Larkin or Ruby that calls our troops mass murderers. If I had ever read anything like that, I would have publicly disagreed with them.

I do think that our military brass knew full well that unleashing shock and awe on the densely populated city of Baghdad would kill large numbers of civilians.

Ahh the old claim, I just never saw it... do not buy it at all. Ruby has said it MORE than once in more than one thread. Larkinn I must admit just said it once, in answer to me if I recall. And again he didn't say they were he just said he didn't care if someone said they were cause after all a couple had killed people illegally.

Now where is Ruby to pull her old " damn why are you talking about me, that is scary " routine. Ask her your self Maineman, I doubt she will lie about it, since the public record is clear.

 

[Larkinn]

*sigh*.

Actually I said calling SOME of them mass murderers is accurate since it has happened. I did NOT say it applied to the entire military. And I did NOT say the word meant nothing...I said the word terrorism means nothing.

 

[maineman]

Ahh the old claim, I just never saw it... do not buy it at all. Ruby has said it MORE than once in more than one thread. Larkinn I must admit just said it once, in answer to me if I recall. And again he didn't say they were he just said he didn't care if someone said they were cause after all a couple had killed people illegally.

Now where is Ruby to pull her old " damn why are you talking about me, that is scary " routine. Ask her your self Maineman, I doubt she will lie about it, since the public record is clear.

as strange as this may seem, I do not read every thread here...and I don't even read every post in threads that I DO read.

I really could give as FUCK what you "buy" or don't "buy". DON'T impugn my integrity.

 

[Alpha1]

If you can tapdance and spin about what we KNOW Durban said and defend him, you don't have that much integrity....

 

[RetiredGySgt]

If you can tapdance and spin about what we KNOW Durban said and defend him, you don't have that much integrity....

What I enjoy the most is Maineman crying about someone impugning HIS integrity. He does it to others ALL the time.

 

[maineman]

What I enjoy the most is Maineman crying about someone impugning HIS integrity. He does it to others ALL the time.

what a crock of shit. I am certainly not "crying" about anything. I told you that I did not read many of Ruby or Larkinn's posts.... that is a fact.... and you claim to somehow know what I am reading or not reading on my computer monitor enough to call ME a liar?

get real.

 

[actsnoblemartin]

I believe the words were, if you didnt know any better our troops were acting like nazis or pol pot, im sorry but I dont agree with you maineman, I believe strongly that durban is a dousche bag, and that he did say those terrible things, now to be fair, if you wanna show me any conservative who acted like a dick, ill condemn them too. Its not about hating liberals, its about disagreeing with some of their ideas, therefore I can keep it civil with y'all lol

::yawn::

show me where Durbin conpared our TROOPS to Nazis or to Pol Pot.... that would cool

 

[maineman]

I believe the words were, if you didnt know any better our troops were acting like nazis or pol pot, im sorry but I dont agree with you maineman, I believe strongly that durban is a dousche bag, and that he did say those terrible things, now to be fair, if you wanna show me any conservative who acted like a dick, ill condemn them too. Its not about hating liberals, its about disagreeing with some of their ideas, therefore I can keep it civil with y'all lol

don't come into this discussion and bitch at me for what you BELIEVE someone said.

If I read this to you and did not tell you that it was an FBI agent describing what Americans had done to prisoners in their control, you would most certainly believe this must have been done by Nazis, Soviets in their gulags, or some mad regime--Pol Pot or others--that had no concern for human beings. Sadly, that is not the case. This was the action of Americans in the treatment of their prisoners.

NOw...if you could find the word TROOP in there, that would be really nice.... but, alas, you can't....surprise surprise.

The focus is clearly on "regimes" and even mentions the leaders of one of those regimes by name. Pol Pot never served as a prison guard, did he?

When Durbin metions nazis soviet gulags and Pol Pot, he is comparing the REGIME in America to the REGIMES of those who deliberately created national policy to mistreat prisoners.

But trust me, partisan hack douchebags like Alpha1 and Retired Gunnysack will try to claim I am shamelessly spinning....

They do the same thing when I point out that Kerry never called our troops TERRORISTS..... they both likle to USE words, they just don't have any ethics when it comes to using them with any sort of correctness.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

To recap... Maineman demands no one disparage or impugn his name or beliefs, usually after he has been caught making shit up from nothing...

Then he posts this...

But trust me, partisan hack douchebags like Alpha1 and Retired Gunnysack will try to claim I am shamelessly spinning....

And lest not forget when I first arrived here Captain Maineman demanded proof I had ever even been in the military and got upset when told I would provide it as soon as his Excelence provided his proof.

He continued for several weeks IMPUGNING my service, why you ask? Because I would not simply agree to what ever he posted of course.

Lets also look at the partisan hack claim.... I routinely call to task people on my side of the political aisle. What does Maineman do? He has admitted he has no intention of ever publicly calling attention to ANYONE that will vote for what he wants, no matter how egregious the person posts or what crap they spew.

 

[maineman]

To recap... Maineman demands no one disparage or impugn his name or beliefs, usually after he has been caught making shit up from nothing...

Then he posts this...

"But trust me, partisan hack douchebags like Alpha1 and Retired Gunnysack will try to claim I am shamelessly spinning.... "

Making up shit from NOTHING???? I suggest you go back and read Alpha's post #25 and your fawning response thereto (post #26)



And lest not forget when I first arrived here Captain Maineman demanded proof I had ever even been in the military and got upset when told I would provide it as soon as his Excelence provided his proof.

He continued for several weeks IMPUGNING my service, why you ask? Because I would not simply agree to what ever he posted of course.

When I first got here, you did not sound much like a retired marine to me.... and, certainly, you did not think that I knew what the hell I was talking about when I spoke of MY commissioned service. You need to be able to take a little shit if you are going to keep dishing it out, buddy. And I think that your "several weeks" line is total bullshit.

Lets also look at the partisan hack claim.... I routinely call to task people on my side of the political aisle. What does Maineman do? He has admitted he has no intention of ever publicly calling attention to ANYONE that will vote for what he wants, no matter how egregious the person posts or what crap they spew.

you "routinely" call folks on the right to task? I will need a link to numerous call outs of republicans on your part with a date/time stamp so that I can verify this "routinely" assertion. In fact, I, personally, have only seen you call out one republican once.... but then, as I said, I don't read everything on here.

And John Paul Jones once said that a hallmark of good leadership was to "commend in public, reprimand in private". I have, on several occasions, chastised liberals and democrats on here and on nearly every board I visit - but I do so discreetly via PM. Apparently, leadership was not in your "toolbag" from your days as a gunny.


Oh...and true to form, you pick one little sniglet from post #29 and make a big deal out of IT, because you know that I handed you your ass on the rest of it!

 

[Annie]

Back OT. Context is everything:

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZTdhNzdlNmVlMjQ0ZDY1ZTAxOWU0NmM4YWQzMTQyNzQ=

...


You’ll be shocked to learn that Media Matters does not include this portion of the transcript in their posting — and Senator Kerry and the others failed to mention it as well. I wonder why?

Perhaps — and this is only a wild guess — it’s because it would demonstrate that when Rush Limbaugh mentioned “phony soldiers,” he meant, literally, phony soldiers.

It happens that last Sunday Fox News linked to an AP story about Jesse Adam Macbeth. The Fox headline was titled, “Phony Soldier Charged With Making Up Claims of Atrocities in Iraq.” The AP story begins this way: “A man who tried to position himself as a leader of the anti-war movement by claiming to have participated in war crimes while serving in Iraq is facing federal charges of falsifying his record.”

THEY CAN'T MOVEON
What’s obviously going on here is that antiwar advocates were deeply damaged by the MoveOn.org ad smearing General David Petraeus. They were desperate to try to climb their way out of the hole they were in — and so they decided this was their opportunity to find a way out. MoveOn.org attacks Petraeus, they say, but Rush Limbaugh attacks members of the military who want to withdraw as “phony soldiers.” So if Republicans are going to criticize us for what we said about General Petraeus, they should criticize Limbaugh for his slander.

The problem, of course, is that that the charge leveled against Limbaugh is obviously false; his phrase “phony soldiers” applied to Jesse Adam Macbeth — and the phrase itself was clearly based on the news headline.

This effort to manufacture outrage does not sustain even minimal scrutiny — which doesn’t mean this story won’t be picked up by some news outlets. But in the end, the truth will out. The Left in America clearly wants to take Limbaugh out, and for obvious reasons: he is a deeply influential conservative voice and during the last 20 years he has changed American politics and the American media in profound ways. The Left hates him — but they have found no way to stop him. Like the Mississippi, he just keeps rolling along. And one gets the feeling that (as Churchill said in another context) he will continue to roll on full flood, to broad lands and bright days.

— Peter Wehner, former deputy assistant to the president, is a senior fellow at the Ethics and Public Policy Center.

 

[CSM]

Back OT. Context is everything:

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZTdhNzdlNmVlMjQ0ZDY1ZTAxOWU0NmM4YWQzMTQyNzQ=

To some that post here, the ends justifies the means. At least until those lying, cheating or otherwise displaying questionable conduct become a political liability.

I am not surpirsed at the tactic, however. Just standard fare from the libs/Dems.

 

[DiogenesDog]

To some that post here, the ends justifies the means. At least until those lying, cheating or otherwise displaying questionable conduct become a political liability.

I am not surpirsed at the tactic, however. Just standard fare from the libs/Dems.

we may differ. Those whom would find our current conservative leadership are conservative in fact mistaken. This current class has made an ugly frontal assault on the rule of law and the Constitution and have attempted an enfilade of ugly misrepresentation and out right lies. The result has been that the swing voters and independents who gave the W_administration so much lee-way and hopeful support have failed utterly. The indicators from yesterdays gubernatorial turn out of a very dirty Republican and his indicted but pardoned minions is a bellwether. Kentucky is a one party state. One wing is Democrat and one is Republican. They turned the rascals out.

Gunny I invite you to take a hard look at what has been carried out in your name. Restructuring ones point of view based on the intentions, actions and outcomes of ones favored politicos is not a sign of weakness or even that of admitting to error. I would suggest that it is a conservative thing to do.

I am a Democrat because I have a long history of being such. When I got out of the military and went to college, my support was assailed by some professors and my fellows in the Student Senate. I was on the wrong side of those who would reuke me for my military service and those who would rebuke me for having opinions and a point of view that was broadened by world travel and my exposure to all that came with a Crypto clearance.

Things haven't changed all that much since 1969 in the Spook business. Information is available. Conclusions can be drawn across a broad spectrum of possibilities. I am old enough to have heard all the Presidents speak since Truman. I know who has raised my bull shit hackles and who has soothed me a bit. I know who has let some scoundrels lead them by the nose and who those held their advisor's to a very stringent analysis of truth.

The tide has turned on this current bunch. As a matter of fact they are hard aground and sending up flares of desperation. It is noones (Scots. usage) fault but their own. They have been all guile and they have no way of coming clean. They do have certitude, but so did Custer and before him Pickett.

I believe you know that I have a supportive military position that favors military preparation and a sensible "forewarned is forearmed" orientation. No administration can cook the books and repeat gaffs and real cover your ass flip-flops without rebuke. It is coming. Some really talented military, CIA and state department talent has been trashed in favor of a fever dream and voo-doo decision making.

I was never a hard striper after PFC (E-3). I got a second stripe but it was over my bird, a specialist. I worked with lots of geniuses in the ranks. My liberal bona fides were well supported by the results, brilliant and poor, that I witnessed in the military.

Things are not right. Results have been poor of late. I am not lulled in by the quiet we experienced in the theaters in October. I believe that come spring a rested, reorganized and capable enemy will spring on our forces again. It is too quiet. It is time to double down and to throw out another defense line and to harden what we have. Only this time we will have to be a whole lot smarter about it and shore up the military with what has here-to-fore been throw away on private armies.

As usual, I am all over the place, but my point is that unless we get over the name calling and get the names and game of our enemies, a comedy of errors will continue.

I AM

 

[CSM]

we may differ. Those whom would find our current conservative leadership are conservative in fact mistaken. This current class has made an ugly frontal assault on the rule of law and the Constitution and have attempted an enfilade of ugly misrepresentation and out right lies. The result has been that the swing voters and independents who gave the W_administration so much lee-way and hopeful support have failed utterly. The indicators from yesterdays gubernatorial turn out of a very dirty Republican and his indicted but pardoned minions is a bellwether. Kentucky is a one party state. One wing is Democrat and one is Republican. They turned the rascals out.

Gunny I invite you to take a hard look at what has been carried out in your name. Restructuring ones point of view based on the intentions, actions and outcomes of ones favored politicos is not a sign of weakness or even that of admitting to error. I would suggest that it is a conservative thing to do.

I am a Democrat because I have a long history of being such. When I got out of the military and went to college, my support was assailed by some professors and my fellows in the Student Senate. I was on the wrong side of those who would reuke me for my military service and those who would rebuke me for having opinions and a point of view that was broadened by world travel and my exposure to all that came with a Crypto clearance.

Things haven't changed all that much since 1969 in the Spook business. Information is available. Conclusions can be drawn across a broad spectrum of possibilities. I am old enough to have heard all the Presidents speak since Truman. I know who has raised my bull shit hackles and who has soothed me a bit. I know who has let some scoundrels lead them by the nose and who those held their advisor's to a very stringent analysis of truth.

The tide has turned on this current bunch. As a matter of fact they are hard aground and sending up flares of desperation. It is noones (Scots. usage) fault but their own. They have been all guile and they have no way of coming clean. They do have certitude, but so did Custer and before him Pickett.

I believe you know that I have a supportive military position that favors military preparation and a sensible "forewarned is forearmed" orientation. No administration can cook the books and repeat gaffs and real cover your ass flip-flops without rebuke. It is coming. Some really talented military, CIA and state department talent has been trashed in favor of a fever dream and voo-doo decision making.

I was never a hard striper after PFC (E-3). I got a second stripe but it was over my bird, a specialist. I worked with lots of geniuses in the ranks. My liberal bona fides were well supported by the results, brilliant and poor, that I witnessed in the military.

Things are not right. Results have been poor of late. I am not lulled in by the quiet we experienced in the theaters in October. I believe that come spring a rested, reorganized and capable enemy will spring on our forces again. It is too quiet. It is time to double down and to throw out another defense line and to harden what we have. Only this time we will have to be a whole lot smarter about it and shore up the military with what has here-to-fore been throw away on private armies.

As usual, I am all over the place, but my point is that unless we get over the name calling and get the names and game of our enemies, a comedy of errors will continue.

I AM

First, I presume your post was addressed to me because of the quote; I would therefore point out that I am not now and never was a Gunny. That is a Marine term of endearment. I am a retired Command Sergeant Major (CSM) which is an Army rank. Not being a jerk here, just setting the record straight for those who may not know.

Let me address a few of your comments. I have no problem with what was done in "my" name; I do have a problem with the way some things have been handled. Strategy and tactics we can discuss all day and I am pretty much open to that discussion. My participation ends when it becomes apparent that the underlying basis for the discussion boils down to one side trying to convince me that the current administration is evil or the US is always guilty of some abhorent warcrime (usually such allegations are based on "I hate Bush so it must be true"). The discussion ends when it gets to personal attacks, name calling and opinion presented as fact.

As many can attest, (Maineman for example) I can and will hold intelligent thought provoking discussions and even debate despite differences in personal beliefs.

I would like to make it clear that I have little respect for politicians from either side of the aisle. I do make a distinction between Dems and libs as I believe that not alll libs are Dems and not all Dems are libs. I have no "favorite" politicos...they all pretty much suck in my opinion. Let me know when one comes along that puts the welfare of this nation and its people ahead of political power and partisanship....

As for your analysis of how the war is going to go...we are not so far apart in our views. I have no illusion in that a "victory" (whatever that is ) in Iraq will eliminate terrorists. How the war should have been fought and should be fought is a discussion that I enjoy but I no longer have an impact those decisions. I also have no illusions regarding the effectiveness of diplomacy.

I to am rambling a bit but you get the idea. The quote you use to begin your post was a backhanded smack at MM who used similar wording in a previous discussion regarding hypocricy...the last sentence was added because I was poking at ... well... libs and Dems!

 

[maineman]

I'm a witness! CSM is principled and ethical and smart, even if I think his politics are a bit off kilter!

 

[DiogenesDog]

I get a little creatively addled at times and cross up my responses with a poster.

One of the first rules that I learned in the Army was that you can get around a lot of command but if you try to get around the SMAJ, you had better be wearing your armored nether garments.

I was ASA, COMINT and SIGINT talent. I had some remote duty with great opportunities to travel in country and in theater. If I went in harms way, I had the comfort of some well armed dog faces to keep the bad guys at bay.

I have great regard for the thinking soldier. Yes. In basic training the slate has to be wiped clean and some standards and expectations installed. I find now that the seriously wobbly wheels like former supply clerks and admin types who carry on like they were Special Ops and make up the ranks of the Swifties and trash and burn sycophants of the Rush school are a bit wearying.

I have had an opportunity in my spotty and fun filled career to have some great adventures and I have also spent a lot of time in mind numbing cubicles, meetings and development conferences. I have met some very smart people. I have met some very capable people. One condition did not alway reflect the other. I have been approached and probed by many over the years to test my resolve in my chosen path and attitude. I have chosen to speak for the underdog and the truly afflicted in all things where advantage has been taken by some big dog.

I have chosen who I like and who I choose to be in league with by their words and behavior toward those of lesser capability, health, and who have made poor life choices. I am a small enterprise, community oriented, and creative Christianist operator. I have read and studied all the religions great and relatively unknown. I have studied the capitalist system and find it to be in a condition of greatest utility when it is a small holding and serves a set of consumers that truly benefit from products and services that an enterprise puts out in absence of fluff, dodgey utility and fraud.

I believe that W was capable of forging another path for the US that would have have much more reasonable outcomes. He chose unwisely. He listened to his worst angels. I have looked back on his days a governor of Texas. He was different then. Please know that the Bushes are in my extended old country genealogy. So was Reagan. I fell for his line . . . once. My dad was a Roosevelt Democrat with great Blue Eagle bona fides. He went head over heels for Reagan. He bought the whole package. He was a career law enforcement guy. Through his last years of service he was a state park ranger. He had to qualify yearly with firearms. He alway shot in the top 10 of all qualifiers. His opinion of the NRA? "Those guys are full of shit." In all his years of hunting he never shot another man in the face. If he saw me doing something goofy with a firearm and I had been cautioned before, whack, a shot up side the head and ear with that great Marfan hand of his. I come by my sentiments and point of view honestly. I really seek to find something of value in the popular hard ass sentiment of hot heads and Swifties. I do find dominionism and jingoism.

Thanks for popping the GREEN smoke for me. I find that it takes a particular type of an adaptable and intelligently functioning individual to rise to CSM. I would shake your hand with a great deal of admiration and respect if it was offered.

Did I share ride from Massachusetts to Ohio with you Christmas of 1964?

I AM

 

[CSM]

I get a little creatively addled at times and cross up my responses with a poster.

One of the first rules that I learned in the Army was that you can get around a lot of command but if you try to get around the SMAJ, you had better be wearing your armored nether garments.

I was ASA, COMINT and SIGINT talent. I had some remote duty with great opportunities to travel in country and in theater. If I went in harms way, I had the comfort of some well armed dog faces to keep the bad guys at bay.

I have great regard for the thinking soldier. Yes. In basic training the slate has to be wiped clean and some standards and expectations installed. I find now that the seriously wobbly wheels like former supply clerks and admin types who carry on like they were Special Ops and make up the ranks of the Swifties and trash and burn sycophants of the Rush school are a bit wearying.

I have had an opportunity in my spotty and fun filled career to have some great adventures and I have also spent a lot of time in mind numbing cubicles, meetings and development conferences. I have met some very smart people. I have met some very capable people. One condition did not alway reflect the other. I have been approached and probed by many over the years to test my resolve in my chosen path and attitude. I have chosen to speak for the underdog and the truly afflicted in all things where advantage has been taken by some big dog.

I have chosen who I like and who I choose to be in league with by their words and behavior toward those of lesser capability, health, and who have made poor life choices. I am a small enterprise, community oriented, and creative Christianist operator. I have read and studied all the religions great and relatively unknown. I have studied the capitalist system and find it to be in a condition of greatest utility when it is a small holding and serves a set of consumers that truly benefit from products and services that an enterprise puts out in absence of fluff, dodgey utility and fraud.

I believe that W was capable of forging another path for the US that would have have much more reasonable outcomes. He chose unwisely. He listened to his worst angels. I have looked back on his days a governor of Texas. He was different then. Please know that the Bushes are in my extended old country genealogy. So was Reagan. I fell for his line . . . once. My dad was a Roosevelt Democrat with great Blue Eagle bona fides. He went head over heels for Reagan. He bought the whole package. He was a career law enforcement guy. Through his last years of service he was a state park ranger. He had to qualify yearly with firearms. He alway shot in the top 10 of all qualifiers. His opinion of the NRA? "Those guys are full of shit." In all his years of hunting he never shot another man in the face. If he saw me doing something goofy with a firearm and I had been cautioned before, whack, a shot up side the head and ear with that great Marfan hand of his. I come by my sentiments and point of view honestly. I really seek to find something of value in the popular hard ass sentiment of hot heads and Swifties. I do find dominionism and jingoism.

Thanks for popping the GREEN smoke for me. I find that it takes a particular type of an adaptable and intelligently functioning individual to rise to CSM. I would shake your hand with a great deal of admiration and respect if it was offered.

Did I share ride from Massachusetts to Ohio with you Christmas of 1964?

I AM

Thanks for the compliments.

I have no problem with those who have a dim view of the current administration as long as they can articulate their reasons for it. Logic and well thought out arguments make points with me even if I do not agree witht the conclusions. I have great disdain for those who merely state that they hate Bush and that is reason enough for their stance.

I am not happy with the current President because of his domestic policy not his foreign policy. I do not like the way post major combat operations are conducted (I have vested interest in that as I have two son who served once there and are scheduled to go back). Congress simply infuriates me and the judical system sends me into fits.

My hope (dream?) is that one day soon some group of politicians will spring up and truly have this nation's best interests at heart. I am certain that wont happen but hope springs eternal!

 

[glockmail]

.... Rush is right in character, his, all the time. He is a boorish buffoon.

.....

That's why he has 12 million or so listeners at any one hour.