So...how did this convicted felon stockpile all these weapons?

[2aguy]

I have privately bought and sold guns for 45 years. Any gun I sold was to someone who I knew. I am considering getting an FFL. If I do, I will be doing background checks on all sales.

At any rate, if Mr. Holder doesn't care who's buying guns, why should I?

Not all have scruples when it comes to making money and I'm sure quite a few share your sentiment about Holder (although he's no longer with the Justice dept).
The need for universal checks is obvious.

No the need for universal checks is not obvious since I have already pointed out that current techniques to avoid the current mandated federal background check will just be used for the new ones…from the minute any new type of background check is created…the criminals won't even have to change anything…….

 

[Dan Daly]

The need for universal checks is obvious.

Free men do not need permission, or background checks. A free person is thought to be a good, law-abiding citizen until their actions prove otherwise. But somehow that basic principle has turned into all of us being assumed to be potential criminals until proven otherwise by some government records check. I simply will not tolerate such nonsense because I am, and will always be a free man. If you wish to be a serf, that is your right, but please don't drag the rest of us down with you.

This country got along just fine for nearly 200 years without any kind of background checks, dealer licensing or other stupid gun control laws. Indeed, since the 1968 GCA (and even the NFA of 1934) and all of the wacky gun laws passed since, our problem with guns and violence in this country have only gotten worse. What makes you think that doing more of the same will somehow provide a different result, this time?

The problem isn't the firearm or access to firearms. The problem is more complicated than that...and one that we really we don't want to admit to or delve too deeply into because it reflects on us as a people and a society.

 

[2aguy]

The point is, without universal checks, there is no way to know who is buying.

How will UBCs prevent people from selling guns to those they know cannot legally own them?
How can the state enforce the requirement to run a check on someone you want to sell a gun to?

So no additional layer of law is better than adding one? The private sellers ( there is a lot of them just look at online advertisements), would be criminally liable and some would no doubt cease their activity slowing the flow to unscrupulous buyers.

The only realistic way to ensure guns stay with those who should have them is registration and title transfers with sales.
Legal owners shouldn't have a problem with that. Only those making shady money would be hurt by that

No….because criminals would simply do what they are currently doing…steal them…hence you license and title transfer does nothing….and they will get someone with a clean record to buy the guns and sell or give it to them…again, making your license and title transfer meaningless…..and then we have the gun store owner who sells guns to criminals illegally…he will just fake paperwork on the license and title transfers, just like with stolen cars….again, making your scheme worthless….

 

[2aguy]

So what if I can prove there's a significant amount of gun crime in this country? Will you support increased background checks?

300,000,000 gun in the US.
8454 gun-related murders.
99.99712% of gun in the US are not involved in a murder.
That is, for every gun involved in a murder, >35,000 are not.
Good luck.

Actually….the numbers for 2014 are out…….only 8,145…..the gun murder rate dropped again……..

 

[M14 Shooter]

So what if I can prove there's a significant amount of gun crime in this country? Will you support increased background checks?

300,000,000 gun in the US.
8454 gun-related murders.
99.99712% of gun in the US are not involved in a murder.
That is, for every gun involved in a murder, >35,000 are not.
Good luck.

Actually….the numbers for 2014 are out…….only 8,145…..the gun murder rate dropped again……..

300,000,000 guns
8145 gun related murders.
99.99729% of guns are not involved in a murder
For every gun used in a murder, almost 37,000 are not.

 

[Ernie S.]

I'll be having a background check today when I pick up 2 of these.

I'll let you know how I make out.

 

[sealybobo]

Sooo...all those gun laws aimed at law abiding citizens work....at harrassing law abiding citizens and making it harder, and in some cases impossible, for them to own or carry guns....

Criminals....not really affected by all those gun laws...case in point....

Sighting of massive gun cache leads to arrest of fugitive

Officers and federal agents later secured a search warrant and seized more than 400 firearms — many converted into machine guns — scrap parts to modify a gun’s action to automatic, and more than 20,000 rounds.

“I am very disturbed about the number and the types of weapons seized by our officers,” Jones said. “This represents the types of weapons patrol officers encounter on a daily basis and reinforces law enforcement’s need to have the proper tools to protect themselves and the community.”

“This is a significant arrest that takes hundreds of dangerous military-grade firearms off the streets and keeps them out of the wrong hands,” he added.

A background check revealed that Durant was arrested in 2013 by U.S. Marshals in Mesa, Arizona. He was wanted for escaping a prison program in South Dakota in 1997.

He was convicted in federal court in 1991 of unlawful possession and transfer of automatic weapons.

A convicted felon....and he had fully automatic weapons in the mix of 400.....

--do you think he passed a mandatory background check for those weapons...

--do you think he has a federal license to own machine guns....

--do you think he has a license for those guns

--do you think he limited himself to only 10 round magazines...

--do you think he registered all those guns....

Where did he get those guns?

We need to track where every gun goes from when it is manufactured, which distributor buys it, what dealer do they sell it to and who does he sell it to.

Great question. How does a felon buy bullets? We should know who originally purchased those bullets.

No we don't.....once a gun os stolen you can't fucking track it can you. and the criminal gets a straw buyer to buy guns...and the straw buyer reports them stolen...again, no use tracking something that is stolen dipshit.


all you have to do is exactly what they did here...catch the fucking felon with the illegal guns...and fucking arrest them.........easy.....and no need to license anyone or register anygun.....right?

This guy was caught. He is arrested because of the laws we already have.

did tracking the guns catch this guy.......no. they caught him like every other criminal.....they caught a break.

you guys have such a hard on for normal people who own guns you can't see straight.


do we need to force normal gun owners who sell guns to get background checks if they sell one of their guns so they can buy the latest model.....no.


You simply catch the criminal who bought the gun illegally and send them to jail......

why is that so hard for you morons to understand?

This guy was caught without licensing normal people...without registering any guns.....and he was caught....

if you licensed every gun owner in the country...you would not have caught this guy.


If you registered every gun in this country you would not have caught this guy.


so there is no point in licensing normal gun owners or registering any guns.

The straw buyers should be arrested.

Yes…they should, when you catch them….but they just report their guns stolen, then what? And you can already get the straw buyers with current police work, just like drugs…you send in undercover police officers to buy and sell the guns….and they can make sure it is known to the buyer and seller they are making an illegal transaction before they arrest them…..

And that way you stop actual criminals, and not bother normal citizens…...

Then start doing it. This straw buyer loophole seems to be the way criminals are getting their hands on guns. I would never sell my gun and report it stolen. And I think the cops would have a problem with me if it happened again, and again, and again. How many times a year does each straw men get their guns stolen?

 

[M14 Shooter]

Then start doing it. This straw buyer loophole seems to be the way criminals are getting their hands on guns.

Straw purchases are illegal under Federal law -- how do you suggest we close this "loophole"?

 

[sealybobo]

Then start doing it. This straw buyer loophole seems to be the way criminals are getting their hands on guns.

Straw purchases are illegal under Federal law -- how do you suggest we close this "loophole"?

Track how many times a guy buys a gun? Sounds like the rules are too loosy goosy bro.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Then start doing it. This straw buyer loophole seems to be the way criminals are getting their hands on guns.

Straw purchases are illegal under Federal law -- how do you suggest we close this "loophole"?

Track how many times a guy buys a gun? Sounds like the rules are too loosy goosy bro.

So.. the state knows I bought 100 guns. How does this prevent me from committing 100 straw-purchase felonies?

 

[Ernie S.]

Then start doing it. This straw buyer loophole seems to be the way criminals are getting their hands on guns.

Straw purchases are illegal under Federal law -- how do you suggest we close this "loophole"?

Track how many times a guy buys a gun? Sounds like the rules are too loosy goosy bro.

How many gun purchases is too many? What would trigger an investigation?
Let's say convicted felon Jamal Black wants to off his wife. He knows he can't pass a BG check, so he gets his brother Tyrone to purchase a Colt revolver.
Jamal shoots his wife. Tyrone is a straw purchaser, although he has only purchased 1 gun.
I have purchased 4 handguns and a rifle in the last year. They are all in my possession and none have been used in a crime.
A friend of mine got a great deal and purchased 24 semi-automatic pistols. He gave 2 of them to his sons and sold one to a friend. None have been used in a crime.
How do you decide who is a straw purchaser?

 

[M14 Shooter]

Then start doing it. This straw buyer loophole seems to be the way criminals are getting their hands on guns.

Straw purchases are illegal under Federal law -- how do you suggest we close this "loophole"?

Track how many times a guy buys a gun? Sounds like the rules are too loosy goosy bro.

How many gun purchases is too many? What would trigger an investigation?
Let's say convicted felon Jamal Black wants to off his wife. He knows he can't pass a BG check, so he gets his brother Tyrone to purchase a Colt revolver.
Jamal shoots his wife. Tyrone is a straw purchaser, although he has only purchased 1 gun.
I have purchased 4 handguns and a rifle in the last year. They are all in my possession and none have been used in a crime.
A friend of mine got a great deal and purchased 24 semi-automatic pistols. He gave 2 of them to his sons and sold one to a friend. None have been used in a crime.
How do you decide who is a straw purchaser?

How do you differentiate between a straw purchase, which is illegal, and buying a firearm as a gift, which is not.

 

[sealybobo]

Then start doing it. This straw buyer loophole seems to be the way criminals are getting their hands on guns.

Straw purchases are illegal under Federal law -- how do you suggest we close this "loophole"?

Track how many times a guy buys a gun? Sounds like the rules are too loosy goosy bro.

How many gun purchases is too many? What would trigger an investigation?
Let's say convicted felon Jamal Black wants to off his wife. He knows he can't pass a BG check, so he gets his brother Tyrone to purchase a Colt revolver.
Jamal shoots his wife. Tyrone is a straw purchaser, although he has only purchased 1 gun.
I have purchased 4 handguns and a rifle in the last year. They are all in my possession and none have been used in a crime.
A friend of mine got a great deal and purchased 24 semi-automatic pistols. He gave 2 of them to his sons and sold one to a friend. None have been used in a crime.
How do you decide who is a straw purchaser?

Tyrone is guilty.
Could you sell to a friend if he has a felony? Doesn't he have to go register those guns at the police station?

 

[M14 Shooter]

Then start doing it. This straw buyer loophole seems to be the way criminals are getting their hands on guns.

Straw purchases are illegal under Federal law -- how do you suggest we close this "loophole"?

Track how many times a guy buys a gun? Sounds like the rules are too loosy goosy bro.

How many gun purchases is too many? What would trigger an investigation?
Let's say convicted felon Jamal Black wants to off his wife. He knows he can't pass a BG check, so he gets his brother Tyrone to purchase a Colt revolver.
Jamal shoots his wife. Tyrone is a straw purchaser, although he has only purchased 1 gun.
I have purchased 4 handguns and a rifle in the last year. They are all in my possession and none have been used in a crime.
A friend of mine got a great deal and purchased 24 semi-automatic pistols. He gave 2 of them to his sons and sold one to a friend. None have been used in a crime.
How do you decide who is a straw purchaser?

Tyrone is guilty.
Could you sell to a friend if he has a felony?

Not legally, assuming you know he is a felon.

Doesn't he have to go register those guns at the police station?

Most states, having sane gun laws, do not require registration of any gun.

 

[Ernie S.]

Damned if I know....
Maybe track holster sales as well? No holster purchase might mean you have no intention of using the gun yourself?
In the case of the Uberti SAAs I'll likely pick up today. I have in my possession a double crass draw rig.
Will I carry 2 .45 long Colt revolvers at the same time? Not very often.

In reality, there is no way to effectively ascertain intent when selling a gun making any attempt to curtail straw purchases no more than another hoop one must jump through in order to exercise a non-infringable right.
Kind of like a civics test before allowing a person to vote. You want that Libbies?

 

[M14 Shooter]

In reality, there is no way to effectively ascertain intent when selling a gun...

Clearly, we must require people to prove they do not intend to do something illegal before they can buy a gun.

 

[sealybobo]

Then start doing it. This straw buyer loophole seems to be the way criminals are getting their hands on guns.

Straw purchases are illegal under Federal law -- how do you suggest we close this "loophole"?

Track how many times a guy buys a gun? Sounds like the rules are too loosy goosy bro.

How many gun purchases is too many? What would trigger an investigation?
Let's say convicted felon Jamal Black wants to off his wife. He knows he can't pass a BG check, so he gets his brother Tyrone to purchase a Colt revolver.
Jamal shoots his wife. Tyrone is a straw purchaser, although he has only purchased 1 gun.
I have purchased 4 handguns and a rifle in the last year. They are all in my possession and none have been used in a crime.
A friend of mine got a great deal and purchased 24 semi-automatic pistols. He gave 2 of them to his sons and sold one to a friend. None have been used in a crime.
How do you decide who is a straw purchaser?

Tyrone is guilty.
Could you sell to a friend if he has a felony?

Not legally, assuming you know he is a felon.

Doesn't he have to go register those guns at the police station?

Most states, having sane gun laws, do not require registration of any gun.

Not good enough. You should have to tell the police who you are selling your guns to. Epic fail loser.

 

[Ernie S.]

Then start doing it. This straw buyer loophole seems to be the way criminals are getting their hands on guns.

Straw purchases are illegal under Federal law -- how do you suggest we close this "loophole"?

Track how many times a guy buys a gun? Sounds like the rules are too loosy goosy bro.

How many gun purchases is too many? What would trigger an investigation?
Let's say convicted felon Jamal Black wants to off his wife. He knows he can't pass a BG check, so he gets his brother Tyrone to purchase a Colt revolver.
Jamal shoots his wife. Tyrone is a straw purchaser, although he has only purchased 1 gun.
I have purchased 4 handguns and a rifle in the last year. They are all in my possession and none have been used in a crime.
A friend of mine got a great deal and purchased 24 semi-automatic pistols. He gave 2 of them to his sons and sold one to a friend. None have been used in a crime.
How do you decide who is a straw purchaser?

Tyrone is guilty.
Could you sell to a friend if he has a felony? Doesn't he have to go register those guns at the police station?

Sure Tyrone is guilty under EXISTING law. Would another law stop him from selling Jamal a gun? NOPE, but it would hinder me and my friend who are not criminals.

No sir, He does NOT have to go to a police station and register his gun. The purchase (at a licensed gun dealer) is recorded at point of sale.
I have a rifle in my possession that was taken off the body of a Japanese soldier 71 years ago. How does one go about registering that?

 

[M14 Shooter]

Straw purchases are illegal under Federal law -- how do you suggest we close this "loophole"?

Track how many times a guy buys a gun? Sounds like the rules are too loosy goosy bro.

How many gun purchases is too many? What would trigger an investigation?
Let's say convicted felon Jamal Black wants to off his wife. He knows he can't pass a BG check, so he gets his brother Tyrone to purchase a Colt revolver.
Jamal shoots his wife. Tyrone is a straw purchaser, although he has only purchased 1 gun.
I have purchased 4 handguns and a rifle in the last year. They are all in my possession and none have been used in a crime.
A friend of mine got a great deal and purchased 24 semi-automatic pistols. He gave 2 of them to his sons and sold one to a friend. None have been used in a crime.
How do you decide who is a straw purchaser?

Tyrone is guilty.
Could you sell to a friend if he has a felony?

Not legally, assuming you know he is a felon.

Doesn't he have to go register those guns at the police station?

Most states, having sane gun laws, do not require registration of any gun.

Not good enough. You should have to tell the police who you are selling your guns to.

Your opinion is noted and discarded, not just by me but the vast majority of state legislatures, Congress and thinking people everywhere - it is, after all, impossible for you to put forth a sound argument for the necessity of gun registration.
Gun license / registration -- a sound argument? | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

 

[Ernie S.]

Straw purchases are illegal under Federal law -- how do you suggest we close this "loophole"?

Track how many times a guy buys a gun? Sounds like the rules are too loosy goosy bro.

How many gun purchases is too many? What would trigger an investigation?
Let's say convicted felon Jamal Black wants to off his wife. He knows he can't pass a BG check, so he gets his brother Tyrone to purchase a Colt revolver.
Jamal shoots his wife. Tyrone is a straw purchaser, although he has only purchased 1 gun.
I have purchased 4 handguns and a rifle in the last year. They are all in my possession and none have been used in a crime.
A friend of mine got a great deal and purchased 24 semi-automatic pistols. He gave 2 of them to his sons and sold one to a friend. None have been used in a crime.
How do you decide who is a straw purchaser?

Tyrone is guilty.
Could you sell to a friend if he has a felony?

Not legally, assuming you know he is a felon.

Doesn't he have to go register those guns at the police station?

Most states, having sane gun laws, do not require registration of any gun.

Not good enough. You should have to tell the police who you are selling your guns to. Epic fail loser.

In YOUR opinion....
Do you tell the police who you sell your meth to?

Really you should because meth is illegal. Does Walmart tell the police who the sell a TV to? why not? TVs are a legal commodity, just like guns.

You really should learn a bit about a subject before making yourself look like an ignorant fool.