Smoking ban in private residences

[bigrebnc1775]

it already does. it's called HOAs and all homeowners get to vote on what can and cannot be done in the neighborhood/properties/etc.

the best thing for people that don't want to abide by the covenants of their HOA, is to not be part of one (or win the vote). at one time i hated HOAs. now, i like them. it keeps the guy down the street from turning his property into a dump and killing all of our property values. and we all got a vote on what is/isn't allowed. no government was involved.

The HOA is the government in this example dummy.

which you don't have to join. now, name me one other government that you don't have to join. your local government? state? federal?

that's the key. it's voluntary. if a person doesn't understand that, then the conversation isn't going to go far.

Why would anyone join when your neighbor isn't a member?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

I love the fact that if I AM OUTSIDE and I have to take a piss I can whip my dick out and piss, can you do that in a HOA?

 

[CaughtInTheMid]

The HOA is the government in this example dummy.

which you don't have to join. now, name me one other government that you don't have to join. your local government? state? federal?

that's the key. it's voluntary. if a person doesn't understand that, then the conversation isn't going to go far.

Are you free to not join if you live in the neighborhood? NO? Then it's no different.

at closing, i was asked to sign a document that said i would abide by the covenants of the HOA in that neighborhood (which i knew about prior to deciding to buy the house). there were no police there to make me sign. i was not in cuffs. there was no government official holding a gun to my head. i voluntarily signed that i would abide by the rules that these people (not government) had established for their mutual benefit. once i signed (voluntarily) i gave them my word that i would follow their rules. what is more free than that?

 

[CaughtInTheMid]

I love the fact that if I have to take a piss I can whip my dick out and piss, can you do that in a HOA?

sure. both of us can. as long as we're not outside and there is not a cop around.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

I love the fact that if I have to take a piss I can whip my dick out and piss, can you do that in a HOA?

sure. both of us can. as long as we're not outside and there is not cop around.

Reread my comment.

 

[manifold]

which you don't have to join. now, name me one other government that you don't have to join. your local government? state? federal?

that's the key. it's voluntary. if a person doesn't understand that, then the conversation isn't going to go far.

Are you free to not join if you live in the neighborhood? NO? Then it's no different.

at closing, i was asked to sign a document that said i would abide by the covenants of the HOA in that neighborhood (which i knew about prior to deciding to buy the house). there were no police there to make me sign. i was not in cuffs. there was no government official holding a gun to my head. i voluntarily signed that i would abide by the rules that these people (not government) had established for their mutual benefit. once i signed (voluntarily) i gave them my word that i would follow their rules. what is more free than that?

Are you now free to withdraw your membership in the HOA and still remain in your residence?

 

[Ringel05]

it already does. it's called HOAs and all homeowners get to vote on what can and cannot be done in the neighborhood/properties/etc.

the best thing for people that don't want to abide by the covenants of their HOA, is to not be part of one (or win the vote). at one time i hated HOAs. now, i like them. it keeps the guy down the street from turning his property into a dump and killing all of our property values. and we all got a vote on what is/isn't allowed. no government was involved.

HOAs cover the exterior of the house, yard and and common grounds, not the interior.

currently, but people of that neighborhood are free to vote on any restrictions they want. and, if they get a majority, i can either move or abide by the new covenants. no government is involved.

No, there are laws protecting homeowners from over zealous HOAs also. HOAs must work withing the confines of their regulatory authority, regulating what happens inside the walls is legally outside of their scope. The HOAs in question need to be reined in, put back in their place.

 

[CaughtInTheMid]

Are you free to not join if you live in the neighborhood? NO? Then it's no different.

at closing, i was asked to sign a document that said i would abide by the covenants of the HOA in that neighborhood (which i knew about prior to deciding to buy the house). there were no police there to make me sign. i was not in cuffs. there was no government official holding a gun to my head. i voluntarily signed that i would abide by the rules that these people (not government) had established for their mutual benefit. once i signed (voluntarily) i gave them my word that i would follow their rules. what is more free than that?

Are you now free to withdraw your membership in the HOA and still remain in your residence?

no. my signature on my agreement to be apart of the HOA makes me responsible to be part of the HOA. i am free to move.

 

[manifold]

at closing, i was asked to sign a document that said i would abide by the covenants of the HOA in that neighborhood (which i knew about prior to deciding to buy the house). there were no police there to make me sign. i was not in cuffs. there was no government official holding a gun to my head. i voluntarily signed that i would abide by the rules that these people (not government) had established for their mutual benefit. once i signed (voluntarily) i gave them my word that i would follow their rules. what is more free than that?

Are you now free to withdraw your membership in the HOA and still remain in your residence?

no. my signature on my agreement to be apart of the HOA makes me responsible to be part of the HOA. i am free to move.

So the only way to extricate yourself from the HOA's rules is to move out of the neighborhood.

And the only way for me to extricate myself from the rules of the US Government is to move out of the country.

The only difference is scale. HOAs are by definition a micro-government. I'm not sure why that's so difficult a concept for you to grasp.

 

[CaughtInTheMid]

HOAs cover the exterior of the house, yard and and common grounds, not the interior.

currently, but people of that neighborhood are free to vote on any restrictions they want. and, if they get a majority, i can either move or abide by the new covenants. no government is involved.

No, there are laws protecting homeowners from over zealous HOAs also. HOAs must work withing the confines of their regulatory authority, regulating what happens inside the walls is legally outside of their scope. The HOAs in question need to be reined in, put back in their place.

think about what you're saying. you're saying the HOA (a group of people who got together voluntarily) can pass restrictions for their residents that goes onto a persons personal property (from the street to your house). isn't that what you're saying?

 

[CaughtInTheMid]

Are you now free to withdraw your membership in the HOA and still remain in your residence?

no. my signature on my agreement to be apart of the HOA makes me responsible to be part of the HOA. i am free to move.

So the only way to extricate yourself from the HOA's rules is to move out of the neighborhood.

And the only way for me to extricate myself from the rules of the US Government is to move out of the country.

The only difference is scale. HOAs are by definition a micro-government. I'm not sure why that's so difficult a concept for you to grasp.

don't you think that there is a bit of a difference since there are plenty of places that don't have HOAs and plenty that do (which were formed voluntarily)? if you don't want to be part of a HOA, don't voluntarily move into one. it's your choice. what is more free than that?

 

[manifold]

no. my signature on my agreement to be apart of the HOA makes me responsible to be part of the HOA. i am free to move.

So the only way to extricate yourself from the HOA's rules is to move out of the neighborhood.

And the only way for me to extricate myself from the rules of the US Government is to move out of the country.

The only difference is scale. HOAs are by definition a micro-government. I'm not sure why that's so difficult a concept for you to grasp.

don't you think that there is a bit of a difference since there are plenty of places that don't have HOAs and plenty that do (which were formed voluntarily)? if you don't want to be part of a HOA, don't voluntarily move into one. it's your choice. what is more free than that?

It would be more free if I were able to move into any neighborhood I wanted without having to submit to yet another governmental authority.

 

[chanel]

My parents lived in a senior community that had ridiculous rules about wreaths on your door and plants on your property. They didn't comply and fortunately were never cited. I guess the assn. would wait for some asshole neighbor to complain.

But the scary part is using "health and safety" as the justification for overzealous bans. Will there come a day when everyone will have to participate in the govt. sponsored exercise program? Very Orwellian.

 

[manifold]

I'm not saying that HOAs are good or bad, I'm simply disagreeing academically with your repeated assertion of "no government" involvement. The only way you might have a point there is if the HOA has no real authority to enforce it's rules.

 

[Toro]

Smoking is disgusting but should be allowed in private residences.

 

[CaughtInTheMid]

Note: I just googled HOA rules and got this...

"If the bylaws of the association allow for you to opt out, then you can."

 

[CaughtInTheMid]

So the only way to extricate yourself from the HOA's rules is to move out of the neighborhood.

And the only way for me to extricate myself from the rules of the US Government is to move out of the country.

The only difference is scale. HOAs are by definition a micro-government. I'm not sure why that's so difficult a concept for you to grasp.

don't you think that there is a bit of a difference since there are plenty of places that don't have HOAs and plenty that do (which were formed voluntarily)? if you don't want to be part of a HOA, don't voluntarily move into one. it's your choice. what is more free than that?

It would be more free if I were able to move into any neighborhood I wanted without having to submit to yet another governmental authority.

well, since it's just a bunch of people in a neighborhood who voluntarily decided to form a group to protect their common interests, and no one is forcing them to exist, you're gonna have a tough time proving that HOAs are government entities. but good luck.

 

[manifold]

don't you think that there is a bit of a difference since there are plenty of places that don't have HOAs and plenty that do (which were formed voluntarily)? if you don't want to be part of a HOA, don't voluntarily move into one. it's your choice. what is more free than that?

It would be more free if I were able to move into any neighborhood I wanted without having to submit to yet another governmental authority.

well, since it's just a bunch of people in a neighborhood who voluntarily decided to form a group to protect their common interests, and no one is forcing them to exist, you're gonna have a tough time proving that HOAs are government entities. but good luck.

Like I said previously, I guess that depends on whether they have the authority to enforce their rules. Hypothetically speaking, what would happen in your neighborhood if somebody did something in violation of the HOA bylaws, but is otherwise legal?

 

[Immanuel]

Note: I just googled HOA rules and got this...

"If the bylaws of the association allow for you to opt out, then you can."

Just curious, how many HOA's have such a right in their bylaws? My guess is very few if any. A person who moves into the neighborhood after the association is established made the decision (more than likely knowingly) to do so and thus had a choice. Unfortunately, these associations are forced upon residents who lived there prior to the formation of the association and those people had no choice.

Immie

 

[Wry Catcher]

No, no one has the right to tell people what they can or can't do in their own homes.

No one? So Child Abuse, and other forms of Domestic violence are okay, having a meth lab in the kitchen too as long as it is done behind closed doors?