Sick and Tired of this N-Word Stuff...

[logical4u]

So your saying people should just be able to go around throwing around racial slurs at whoever they want with no reprecussions? sorry I don't agree and I am glad most people don't agree with you on this either.

"if you called someone the n word at your job you would be fired as well."
That would be up to the employer, wouldn't it.
As far as I know, there is no law that requires an employer to do so...and if a civil suit resulted in some penalty to an individual for same, it is a decision to which I would be opposed.

Hahahaha really? if you really believe this go up to a black person at your job ad just drop the n bomb, lets see how long you last.

I think "racial slurs" were the point. There was a woman slamming Asians in a way that could be considered very offensive to Asians. If she had done a similar type vid on blacks (using n... or not), the reaction would have been very different. It looked like the "Asian" was trying to teach a lesson with a sense of humor, and yet, he too, was offensive to women.
I understand why you are sensitive over this, and I agree that these words can hurt, terribly. At the same time, humor can be used to open communication in a way that offends all parties the least. My mom used to tell us that people will judge you by the words you use. This seems to be more true than ever.

True but a much better way assess a person is to see how they act towards others.
Talk is still as cheap as it ever was.

I agree. Some times you do not get to "see" the actions, just hear the words, think of words as: first impression.

 

[PoliticalChic]

ah, I get it...you approve of fighting racism with racism. That's fine, I suppose it works as well as anything else.

What I was supporting was fighting offense with humor.

I think it's a step up on the 'intelligent response' ladder.

The white chick was also using humor. And if the Asian dude was...he was also being a bit racist.

I really don't see a huge difference between the two of them.

I have a problem with the term 'racist,' so would prefer offense or offensive....

Both allow a great latitude, and, as you can see in this thread, one seems to encourage violence.

But, as to your point, yes, but if one uses offensive language, I can understand the other doing the same.

And being articulate is a plus.

 

[Ravi]

What I was supporting was fighting offense with humor.

I think it's a step up on the 'intelligent response' ladder.

The white chick was also using humor. And if the Asian dude was...he was also being a bit racist.

I really don't see a huge difference between the two of them.

I have a problem with the term 'racist,' so would prefer offense or offensive....

Both allow a great latitude, and, as you can see in this thread, one seems to encourage violence.

But, as to your point, yes, but if one uses offensive language, I can understand the other doing the same.

And being articulate is a plus.

Wait...what? The term racist is now unPC?

 

[dilloduck]

I think "racial slurs" were the point. There was a woman slamming Asians in a way that could be considered very offensive to Asians. If she had done a similar type vid on blacks (using n... or not), the reaction would have been very different. It looked like the "Asian" was trying to teach a lesson with a sense of humor, and yet, he too, was offensive to women.
I understand why you are sensitive over this, and I agree that these words can hurt, terribly. At the same time, humor can be used to open communication in a way that offends all parties the least. My mom used to tell us that people will judge you by the words you use. This seems to be more true than ever.

True but a much better way assess a person is to see how they act towards others.
Talk is still as cheap as it ever was.

I agree. Some times you do not get to "see" the actions, just hear the words, think of words as: first impression.

exactly----which is why I refuse to condemn a person for some words or opinion they express here.

 

[emilynghiem]

Working on ourselves sounds like a great idea. Expecting the world to change because it offends me is selfish, intolerant, creates more resentment and always eventually fails.
Taking responsibilty is the first step. If people won't do that then you can toss your forums and training sessions out the window.

Change is mutual.
The more we open ourselves and our relations to change, the more those doors are open for others. It helps if the timing is mutual, so there is less fear, and it doesn't become some control game.

Where we agree to let go and meet the other person half way, it's amazing how dynamics can change in a relationship. Collectively, that eventually changes the world, one step at a time toward common goals and purpose, instead of wasting energy in conflict and division.

We are all connected on some level either socially or spiritually, however you see it. It's like Heisenberg's principle on how perceiving things changes them. When we change our perception of conflict, we can see better how to take steps to resolve it from our side.
And that inevitably invokes change in other people in relation to us.

Buddhism also teaches we are interconnected in life, and in Christianity that we should receive and treat each other lovingly as children of the same God.

When we live that way, we cannot but help change things around us.

The power of negative thoughts and forces may be strong, but the power of love and forgiveness is even greater and can move mountains in comparison, where the other forces clash and deadlock, going nowhere but often cancelling each other out. Negativity can only build on itself for so long and then we cannot take it anymore. But love can multiply and build without end, so that force wins out in the long run!

All the anger and grief we see in the meantime is just part of the healing and recovery process. That, too, shall pass. It will change over time with love and forgiveness. It originated from finite sources and events, so it has a finite process and end. But love is lasting and has no end.

 

[emilynghiem]

I have a problem with the term 'racist,' so would prefer offense or offensive....

And being articulate is a plus.

1. yes I agree it is best not to "label" anyone "racist" as that can lead to the same namecalling that goes nowhere and detracts from the actual content being expressed

2. to be articulate, there are ways to point out if the "offense" is particularly "racially" based or charged or biased WITHOUT calling either the remark or the person "racist"

There is nothing wrong with acknowledging if the reason the N word is "offensive" is that it makes a reference to "race"

That is just being articulate, about where part of the problem is coming from

3. in general, there is difference between making fun of a group that is chosen by the person, such as Republican/Democrat. Or making associations or generalizations based on a trait that is NOT chosen but is by birth, such as one's race or nationality, or gender.

So that part of the "offense" happens with other cases, not just race related.
Where a person or group is targeted as "representing a whole class or stereotype."

There is also a difference between making either jokes or criticisms of YOUR OWN affiliation as opposed to someone else's group.

So it is possible to use even offensive words or statements in a context that is understood as making fun of yourself and your own experiences in life. I think that approach is okay and works well for humor, and especially with criticisms, is more effective to address corrections within your own affiliations or groups.

 

[PoliticalChic]

The white chick was also using humor. And if the Asian dude was...he was also being a bit racist.

I really don't see a huge difference between the two of them.

I have a problem with the term 'racist,' so would prefer offense or offensive....

Both allow a great latitude, and, as you can see in this thread, one seems to encourage violence.

But, as to your point, yes, but if one uses offensive language, I can understand the other doing the same.

And being articulate is a plus.

Wait...what? The term racist is now unPC?

I don't believe that I have found a definition of the word 'racist' that is satisfactory.

Does it mean superficially that one is opposed to every member of a race? I have not found any one who conforms to that definition.

Does it mean using stereotypes? Then say that: it has less of an impact, and encourages more discussion.

Does it imply the power to harm...beyond insults...and lend itself to 'minorities, therefore, can never be racist....' I don't buy that.

Or, as I have usually found, it is used as a cudgle against those who have a different political prospective.


You know the old definition of 'racist' as a conservative winning the argument. I lean toward that one.

So....I would tend to use 'offensive' or 'insulting' as more descriptive...if I chose to use any term.

 

[emilynghiem]

I have a problem with the term 'racist,' so would prefer offense or offensive....

Both allow a great latitude, and, as you can see in this thread, one seems to encourage violence.

But, as to your point, yes, but if one uses offensive language, I can understand the other doing the same.

And being articulate is a plus.

Wait...what? The term racist is now unPC?

I don't believe that I have found a definition of the word 'racist' that is satisfactory.

Does it mean superficially that one is opposed to every member of a race? I have not found any one who conforms to that definition.

Does it mean using stereotypes? Then say that: it has less of an impact, and encourages more discussion.

Does it imply the power to harm...beyond insults...and lend itself to 'minorities, therefore, can never be racist....' I don't buy that.

Or, as I have usually found, it is used as a cudgle against those who have a different political prospective.


You know the old definition of 'racist' as a conservative winning the argument. I lean toward that one.

So....I would tend to use 'offensive' or 'insulting' as more descriptive...if I chose to use any term.

How about offensive BECAUSE it refers to the race of a person or example, in order to make an unfair generalization about a whole class of people? Or it attempts to assess blame for a problem (that other people or groups have) based on race, again to make an unfair or biased statement? Or it expresses anger or emotional bias against a certain race, as opposed to specifically addressing the problem?

That's not just offensive but offensive for a reason.

If you don't focus on why the element of "race" is part of the offense,
then you are missing what racism attempts to address.

Also, there are other kinds of offenses that are similar to racism.
Such as bigotry in general. That is also different than just being "offensive"
but it doesn't have to be about race, it can be a group generalization showing bias against gender or religion, etc.

Would you say a "sexist" remark is just "offensive"
Or isn't there some SPECIFIC offense in that gender was used to make an unfair generalizatgion that either doesn't apply to all women or does apply to some men also, etc.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Wait...what? The term racist is now unPC?

I don't believe that I have found a definition of the word 'racist' that is satisfactory.

Does it mean superficially that one is opposed to every member of a race? I have not found any one who conforms to that definition.

Does it mean using stereotypes? Then say that: it has less of an impact, and encourages more discussion.

Does it imply the power to harm...beyond insults...and lend itself to 'minorities, therefore, can never be racist....' I don't buy that.

Or, as I have usually found, it is used as a cudgle against those who have a different political prospective.


You know the old definition of 'racist' as a conservative winning the argument. I lean toward that one.

So....I would tend to use 'offensive' or 'insulting' as more descriptive...if I chose to use any term.

How about offensive BECAUSE it refers to the race of a person or example, in order to make an unfair generalization about a whole class of people? Or it attempts to assess blame for a problem (that other people or groups have) based on race, again to make an unfair or biased statement? Or it expresses anger or emotional bias against a certain race, as opposed to specifically addressing the problem?

That's not just offensive but offensive for a reason.

If you don't focus on why the element of "race" is part of the offense,
then you are missing what racism attempts to address.

Also, there are other kinds of offenses that are similar to racism.
Such as bigotry in general. That is also different than just being "offensive"
but it doesn't have to be about race, it can be a group generalization showing bias against gender or religion, etc.

Would you say a "sexist" remark is just "offensive"
Or isn't there some SPECIFIC offense in that gender was used to make an unfair generalizatgion that either doesn't apply to all women or does apply to some men also, etc.

I generally don't fixate on the remark, or the basis of it, but rather on what it has to do with the price of apples: meaning, how does it change reality...

I respond in the manner I find appropriate and move on.

I certainly don't think about how to stop folks from making remarks in any of the categories that you have outlined....or stop folks from making any statements of any kind.

In fact, if you think about it, focusing on the comments and how to obviate same in the future is the best way to make sure they happen again....human nature being what it is, you make efforts to prevent people from saying stuff, and guess what happens.....

right.


One can make clear that one doesn't preform in that manner....and, I'm thinking, this may be a case of less is more.


Haven't seen many of your posts in these discussions...looking forward to seeing more.

 

[manifold]

Why is the Chinese guy insulted to be taken as a Japanese person?

Did you really just ask that?

Yes...I suppose driveby's answer was the correct one...racial prejudice takes years and years to subside, apparently.

Me, I wouldn't be insulted if someone thought I was German.

Are you pleading ignorance about the history of conflict between China and Japan?

You know, Israeli Jews and Palestinian Muslims look the same to me. Would you ask the this question about one of them being insulted by getting taken for the other?

 

[Ravi]

Did you really just ask that?

Yes...I suppose driveby's answer was the correct one...racial prejudice takes years and years to subside, apparently.

Me, I wouldn't be insulted if someone thought I was German.

Are you pleading ignorance about the history of conflict between China and Japan?

You know, Israeli Jews and Palestinian Muslims look the same to me. Would you ask the this question about one of them being insulted by getting taken for the other?

I think I would. Isn't that one of the problems with racially profiling people at airports? Most semitic groups do share common features. As do many Asian groups.

 

[emilynghiem]

I generally don't fixate on the remark, or the basis of it, but rather on what it has to do with the price of apples: meaning, how does it change reality...

I certainly don't think about how to stop folks from making remarks in any of the categories that you have outlined....or stop folks from making any statements of any kind.

In fact, if you think about it, focusing on the comments and how to obviate same in the future is the best way to make sure they happen again....human nature being what it is, you make efforts to prevent people from saying stuff, and guess what happens.....

right.

Hi PC:
1. I agree that trying to ban or stop remarks doesn't solve the problem of why they happen. I also agree that it is best to look at what matters that can be changed.

2. However, to address why they happen in order to prevent it from recurring,
it is helpful to identify what issues are connected with that particular remark
based on "race" of a certain group. If we are going to solve the problem, we have to break it down. Not just saying a remark is offensive, but what caused the person to express a negative perception this way. That marks a problem that can be solved.

A lot of negative things ARE said because of projection. Taking one's own past experiences and associating this with another event or person it reminds us of.

So these things we say, unlock clues to what we carry inside or from the past.

In the case of race-based or even race-baiting remarks,
clearly there are issues to be addressed, not just general offenses,
but SPECIFICALLY related to one's perception of race based on past experiences.

(The Bahai groups teach a whole series of seminars and workshops on address the different levels that racism or racial biases and perceptions affect us personally and whole social institutions. So recognizing the root of these things in ourselves is a good first step to healing all the pains and conflicts in society where these things have built up over ages.)

P.S. I tend to focus more on perceptions of politics and religion.
So you'll see my messages posted under religion and ethics.

Thanks for your postings here also!

If you get bored, you can post on backpage.com and join the fun there.
Some challenging personalities and conflicts there, but equally rewarding as they are difficult. I am considered disturbing or problematic to some people the way I cross over stereotypes and don't fit into standard categories or labels. So I get lots of practice resolving differences in how we see and say things. We are all bound to make mistakes in communicating or perceiving, but what matters is making the effort to correct this and grow by sharing.

I believe much can be learned from even offensive or false remarks, so censoring these is not the solution. How else can we learn to work things out except verbalizing our thoughts!

 

[manifold]

Yes...I suppose driveby's answer was the correct one...racial prejudice takes years and years to subside, apparently.

Me, I wouldn't be insulted if someone thought I was German.

Are you pleading ignorance about the history of conflict between China and Japan?

You know, Israeli Jews and Palestinian Muslims look the same to me. Would you ask the this question about one of them being insulted by getting taken for the other?

I think I would.

So you honestly expect me to believe that you can't understand why a Muslim might be offended if taken for a Jew?

 

[Ravi]

Where did I say that...nifty editing of what I said to suit your agenda.



I can understand it, just as I can understand why a Chinese person might be offended to be thought a Japanese person.

But those are both irrational actions, considering the groups share many physical features.

But you, and most other rightwingloons on this thread, can't understand why a black person would be offended at being called the n-word.

Pretty funny stuff.

 

[dilloduck]

Working on ourselves sounds like a great idea. Expecting the world to change because it offends me is selfish, intolerant, creates more resentment and always eventually fails.
Taking responsibilty is the first step. If people won't do that then you can toss your forums and training sessions out the window.

Change is mutual.
The more we open ourselves and our relations to change, the more those doors are open for others. It helps if the timing is mutual, so there is less fear, and it doesn't become some control game.

Where we agree to let go and meet the other person half way, it's amazing how dynamics can change in a relationship. Collectively, that eventually changes the world, one step at a time toward common goals and purpose, instead of wasting energy in conflict and division.

We are all connected on some level either socially or spiritually, however you see it. It's like Heisenberg's principle on how perceiving things changes them. When we change our perception of conflict, we can see better how to take steps to resolve it from our side.
And that inevitably invokes change in other people in relation to us.

Buddhism also teaches we are interconnected in life, and in Christianity that we should receive and treat each other lovingly as children of the same God.

When we live that way, we cannot but help change things around us.

The power of negative thoughts and forces may be strong, but the power of love and forgiveness is even greater and can move mountains in comparison, where the other forces clash and deadlock, going nowhere but often cancelling each other out. Negativity can only build on itself for so long and then we cannot take it anymore. But love can multiply and build without end, so that force wins out in the long run!

All the anger and grief we see in the meantime is just part of the healing and recovery process. That, too, shall pass. It will change over time with love and forgiveness. It originated from finite sources and events, so it has a finite process and end. But love is lasting and has no end.

Beautiful words.
Practical application?
Not so easy.

Creating guidelines for billions of people will undoubtedly blunt individuality and reduce us to our weakest links. It's already destroyed public education in America.
I don't see compromises in the real world---things are allowed or banned.
Accepted or rejected. Legal or illegal.
Two individuals might be able to pull it off.

 

[manifold]

Where did I say that

Your exact words that I quoted.

I can understand it, just as I can understand why a Chinese person might be offended to be thought a Japanese person.

You initially said the exact oppositie of this. Had you not, I wouldn't have responded as I did.

But those are both irrational actions, considering the groups share many physical features.

Your opinion, that I do not share. And to editorialize myself, this statement betrays a fundamental ignorance of reality... or if intentional, something more nefarious. Don't really care which.

But you, and most other rightwingloons on this thread...

Hint to everyone who knows well that I don't fit this characterization: When Ravibility goes here, it's the equivalent of throwing in the towel.

To Ravibility: I'll afford you the last word, as you are wont to fight so viciously for it, but rest assured that I humbly and graciously respect your plead for mercy. Better luck next time.

But you... can't understand why a black person would be offended at being called the n-word.

Simply a false statement.

 

[xsited1]

This is my kind of racism!

1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7gzU8KHW1I


...

The video is a lot better if you turn the sound off and stare at her

 

[logical4u]

Where did I say that...nifty editing of what I said to suit your agenda.



I can understand it, just as I can understand why a Chinese person might be offended to be thought a Japanese person.

But those are both irrational actions, considering the groups share many physical features.

But you, and most other rightwingloons on this thread, can't understand why a black person would be offended at being called the n-word.

Pretty funny stuff.

We understand perfectly well why a Black person would be offended at being called tha word.
Whites don't understand why "that word" is ONLY not permissible for "whites" (isn't that racist) to say that word.
We don't understand why someone can be offended by the word: ****** and then use words like: fuck, cocksucker, etc, etc, etc; words that they "know" offends others.

Conservatives believe the law/rules should be applied equally. If you want to be able to use language that "you" know offends other people, expect other "people" to use words that will offend you. I would prefer we did not use those words at all, but for some, those words are an important part of their vocabulary, and if they want the "freedom" to use all the words at their disposal, they should not try to limit someone else's base vocabulary.

 

[Ravi]

Where did I say that...nifty editing of what I said to suit your agenda.



I can understand it, just as I can understand why a Chinese person might be offended to be thought a Japanese person.

But those are both irrational actions, considering the groups share many physical features.

But you, and most other rightwingloons on this thread, can't understand why a black person would be offended at being called the n-word.

Pretty funny stuff.

Whites don't understand why "that word" is ONLY not permissible for "whites" (isn't that racist) to say that word.

I guess because you're stupid.

 

[dvinman]

I don't hate Asian people unless they talk and act like a Black person! As a matter of fact, I hate anyone that talks and acts like a Black person! That includes you also, Whitey! It just shows what weak minded people you are! I guess I just hate weak minded people in general no matter what race you are!

This is my kind of racism!

1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7gzU8KHW1I


Appropriate response:

2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOGpGoEMu2s&feature=related