Should we Now Get Rid of FISA Courts?

[Oddball]

They approve over 90% of the applications for warrants, so they are basically a rubber stamp.

The fact the corrupt Obama cabal got all these warrants based on such a flimsy basis exposes the fact they need to be shut down.

Or maybe the FISA process or the court itself needs to be changed. Since we clearly cannot trust the FBI to provide ALL of the exculpatory evidence they were supposed to, maybe there needs to be an advocate for NOT doing the surveillance who gets to ask questions and maybe investigate the person(s). Maybe if you commit the bullshit that the Obama FBI did in their FISA applications, those responsible should go to fucking prison. Anybody and everybody who signed off on it or was inv

B-b-b-b-b-b-but Biden!

The far right radical extremists are avoiding his thread like the plague.



Heaven forbid they actually see words of truth. It will probably set their eyes on fire.

olved get convicted. If it's an immediate need, fine. Approve it for the short term and then have your own independent investigators check it out. And if the Court finds an error, somebody gets fired and prosecuted.

For an issue as important as safeguarding our rights and privacy while simultaneously trying to provide national security when needed, the FISA Courts should not be disbanded. To do otherwise is nonsense. I don't know anything about the FISA Court judges, how many there are or who appointed them but caution should be exercised to ensure the Court is not politicized. Term limits should be imposed if they aren't already, and if a judge has show a political bias then he or she gets fired. The answer is NOT to get rid of the Court, it is to make it function the way it was supposed to.

Turd polish.

We had FISA when the Tsarnaev brothers blew up the Boston Marathon...And it wasn't even needed then because they were ratted out to the FBI by Russian intel.

If the federal Keystone Kops can't even do halfway decent police work when the malefactors are operating right under their noses, they damn sure don't need a completely Stasi-esque "court" where there is only one side at the table.

 

[task0778]

They approve over 90% of the applications for warrants, so they are basically a rubber stamp.

The fact the corrupt Obama cabal got all these warrants based on such a flimsy basis exposes the fact they need to be shut down.

Or maybe the FISA process or the court itself needs to be changed. Since we clearly cannot trust the FBI to provide ALL of the exculpatory evidence they were supposed to, maybe there needs to be an advocate for NOT doing the surveillance who gets to ask questions and maybe investigate the person(s). Maybe if you commit the bullshit that the Obama FBI did in their FISA applications, those responsible should go to fucking prison. Anybody and everybody who signed off on it or was inv

B-b-b-b-b-b-but Biden!

The far right radical extremists are avoiding his thread like the plague.



Heaven forbid they actually see words of truth. It will probably set their eyes on fire.

olved get convicted. If it's an immediate need, fine. Approve it for the short term and then have your own independent investigators check it out. And if the Court finds an error, somebody gets fired and prosecuted.

For an issue as important as safeguarding our rights and privacy while simultaneously trying to provide national security when needed, the FISA Courts should not be disbanded. To do otherwise is nonsense. I don't know anything about the FISA Court judges, how many there are or who appointed them but caution should be exercised to ensure the Court is not politicized. Term limits should be imposed if they aren't already, and if a judge has show a political bias then he or she gets fired. The answer is NOT to get rid of the Court, it is to make it function the way it was supposed to.

Turd polish.

We had FISA when the Tsarnaev brothers blew up the Boston Marathon...And it wasn't even needed then because they were ratted out to the FBI by Russian intel.

If the federal Keystone Kops can't even do halfway decent police work when the malefactors are operating right under their noses, they damn sure don't need a completely Stasi-esque "court" where there is only one side at the table.

So it ain't perfect, but it's better than nothing, which is all you have offered. The FISA Courts are only as good as the information they are given, it ain't their fault if a dishonest FBI doesn't tell them the complete truth. Clearly we cannot trust the FBI to include ALL pertinent information whether it supports their case or not, then changes will have to be made, and IMHO people should be indicted and go to jail. But eliminating the Court altogether is nonsense. We can't just let the FBI or whoever monitor and surveil anybody they want to with no control whatsoever. THAT is turd polish.

 

[candycorn]

The blob’s hired felons got pinched....blob supporters blame the authorities

they should be less corrupt; the blob, the people he hired, and his supporters. It would be a welcome change

 

[Oddball]

So it ain't perfect, but it's better than nothing, which is all you have offered. The FISA Courts are only as good as the information they are given, it ain't their fault if a dishonest FBI doesn't tell them the complete truth. Clearly we cannot trust the FBI to include ALL pertinent information whether it supports their case or not, then changes will have to be made, and IMHO people should be indicted and go to jail. But eliminating the Court altogether is nonsense. We can't just let the FBI or whoever monitor and surveil anybody they want to with no control whatsoever. THAT is turd polish.

"So it ain't perfect, but it's better than nothing" is a cop-out.

I'll ask you again...When you remove a cancerous tumor, what do you replace it with?

 

[Desperado]

Other than Trump who have they investigated

 

[Oddball]

Other than Trump who have they investigated

Nobody knows....That's what makes it fucked up....FISA is the Murican version of the Stasi.

 

[Desperado]

Other than Trump who have they investigated

Nobody knows....That's what makes it fucked up....FISA is the Murican version of the Stasi.

Something is just wrong about secret courts

 

[Yarddog]

What's the alternative if FISA Courts are eliminated? Do we allow indiscriminate surveillance of American citizens on American soil, with no restriction or limit? Or no surveillance at all? Sure, let's allow the domestic terrorists, crooks, and bad guys to do their will without any attempt to prevent innocent lives being lost.

Begging the question isn't an argument.

Yeah, but if you're going to get rid of the FISA Courts then don't you think you oughta have some idea of how to handle domestic surveillance of American citizens on American soil? It's easy to say let's get rid of the FISA Courts, FBI, ICE, IRS, etc., but if you're going to advocate for that then I think you should have a plan for what to do after they're gone. Would we be better off without the FISA Courts? How?

"Yeahbut" isn't an argument either.

Dr.Paul warned us that this crap was ripe for abuse and he was proved correct...If we took a cancerous tumor out of you, what would we replace it with?...Would you be better off without cancer?...How?

If we get rid of FISA courts, the surveilance will still continue though. Only without a trail you can go back and look at, so seems to me that would be even worse. The problem may be though, that there are judges in these courts who are biased and willing to give into their biases. So yeah, theres a problem with the courts as they are. Perhaps these Judges need to be made more accountable and not given this cloak of secrecy. AT least accountable to a higher up court and taken to task if they abuse their power.

 

[Desperado]

What's the alternative if FISA Courts are eliminated? Do we allow indiscriminate surveillance of American citizens on American soil, with no restriction or limit? Or no surveillance at all? Sure, let's allow the domestic terrorists, crooks, and bad guys to do their will without any attempt to prevent innocent lives being lost.

Begging the question isn't an argument.

Yeah, but if you're going to get rid of the FISA Courts then don't you think you oughta have some idea of how to handle domestic surveillance of American citizens on American soil? It's easy to say let's get rid of the FISA Courts, FBI, ICE, IRS, etc., but if you're going to advocate for that then I think you should have a plan for what to do after they're gone. Would we be better off without the FISA Courts? How?

"Yeahbut" isn't an argument either.

Dr.Paul warned us that this crap was ripe for abuse and he was proved correct...If we took a cancerous tumor out of you, what would we replace it with?...Would you be better off without cancer?...How?

If we get rid of FISA courts, the surveilance will still continue though. Only without a trail you can go back and look at, so seems to me that would be even worse. The problem may be though, that there are judges in these courts who are biased and willing to give into their biases. So yeah, theres a problem with the courts as they are. Perhaps these Judges need to be made more accountable and not given this cloak of secrecy. AT least accountable to a higher up court and taken to task if they abuse their power.

I partially agree, though the courts should not be secret and the judges should be more accountable. The judges now are getting away with murder

 

[B. Kidd]

I think we are better off with enemies spying on us from thousands of miles away rathyer than to have thousands of Federalis spying on us right here at home.

The FISA courts have never been more than a thin fig leaf covering Federali abuse.

Unfortunately, both party's legislatively renewed them in March of this year!

It's no longer a Republic since no one has the will to keep it. (As we continue to trudge towards bondage.).

 

[Yarddog]

What's the alternative if FISA Courts are eliminated? Do we allow indiscriminate surveillance of American citizens on American soil, with no restriction or limit? Or no surveillance at all? Sure, let's allow the domestic terrorists, crooks, and bad guys to do their will without any attempt to prevent innocent lives being lost.

Begging the question isn't an argument.

Yeah, but if you're going to get rid of the FISA Courts then don't you think you oughta have some idea of how to handle domestic surveillance of American citizens on American soil? It's easy to say let's get rid of the FISA Courts, FBI, ICE, IRS, etc., but if you're going to advocate for that then I think you should have a plan for what to do after they're gone. Would we be better off without the FISA Courts? How?

"Yeahbut" isn't an argument either.

Dr.Paul warned us that this crap was ripe for abuse and he was proved correct...If we took a cancerous tumor out of you, what would we replace it with?...Would you be better off without cancer?...How?

If we get rid of FISA courts, the surveilance will still continue though. Only without a trail you can go back and look at, so seems to me that would be even worse. The problem may be though, that there are judges in these courts who are biased and willing to give into their biases. So yeah, theres a problem with the courts as they are. Perhaps these Judges need to be made more accountable and not given this cloak of secrecy. AT least accountable to a higher up court and taken to task if they abuse their power.

I partially agree, though the courts should not be secret and the judges should be more accountable. The judges now are getting away with murder

Right, I think it has been proven that as they exist now, they have to go and be replaced by a better system of oversight.

 

[eagle1462010]

I was flat out wrong about giving Gov't that power after 911.......and forgot the warnings of the Founding Fathers with the Patriot Act.

With it's abuse of power it past time to shit can it................and I openly admit I was wrong after 911 on it.

 

[task0778]

So it ain't perfect, but it's better than nothing, which is all you have offered. The FISA Courts are only as good as the information they are given, it ain't their fault if a dishonest FBI doesn't tell them the complete truth. Clearly we cannot trust the FBI to include ALL pertinent information whether it supports their case or not, then changes will have to be made, and IMHO people should be indicted and go to jail. But eliminating the Court altogether is nonsense. We can't just let the FBI or whoever monitor and surveil anybody they want to with no control whatsoever. THAT is turd polish.

"So it ain't perfect, but it's better than nothing" is a cop-out.

I'll ask you again...When you remove a cancerous tumor, what do you replace it with?

A cancerous tumor can be removed from the body, but we have to have some kind of control over who gets surveilled and for what reason. If you can't see that then I don't know what to tell you. To think that the FISA Court system can be done away with without anything else to takeover their function is nonsense.

 

[eagle1462010]

So it ain't perfect, but it's better than nothing, which is all you have offered. The FISA Courts are only as good as the information they are given, it ain't their fault if a dishonest FBI doesn't tell them the complete truth. Clearly we cannot trust the FBI to include ALL pertinent information whether it supports their case or not, then changes will have to be made, and IMHO people should be indicted and go to jail. But eliminating the Court altogether is nonsense. We can't just let the FBI or whoever monitor and surveil anybody they want to with no control whatsoever. THAT is turd polish.

"So it ain't perfect, but it's better than nothing" is a cop-out.

I'll ask you again...When you remove a cancerous tumor, what do you replace it with?

A cancerous tumor can be removed from the body, but we have to have some kind of control over who gets surveilled and for what reason. If you can't see that then I don't know what to tell you. To think that the FISA Court system can be done away with without anything else to takeover their function is nonsense.

They had to get Warrants before FISA was created..........they will have to just do that again.

The FISA has been abused..........Fool me once shame on you.........Fool me twice ........shame on me.

 

[Oddball]

A cancerous tumor can be removed from the body, but we have to have some kind of control over who gets surveilled and for what reason. If you can't see that then I don't know what to tell you. To think that the FISA Court system can be done away with without anything else to takeover their function is nonsense.

And the only way to do this is through a totally secretive fake "court", more suited to East Germany than the USA that you and I grew up in.

Fuck my life....The republic is dead.

 

[Syriusly]

I think we are better off with enemies spying on us from thousands of miles away rathyer than to have thousands of Federalis spying on us right here at home.

The FISA courts have never been more than a thin fig leaf covering Federali abuse.

I would be happy to be rid of them.

But literally no one- not Trump, not Republicans, not Democrats- has shown any interest in eliminating them.

 

[Hossfly]

I think we are better off with enemies spying on us from thousands of miles away rathyer than to have thousands of Federalis spying on us right here at home.

The FISA courts have never been more than a thin fig leaf covering Federali abuse.

The FISA court could do a better job of investigating and vetting an application. Of course it wouldn't accomplish anything as long as the CIA and NSA can spy on Americans secretly and illegally.

 

[Vastator]

I think we are better off with enemies spying on us from thousands of miles away rathyer than to have thousands of Federalis spying on us right here at home.

The FISA courts have never been more than a thin fig leaf covering Federali abuse.

There should be no secret courts a nation of the people, for the people, and by the people.

 

[task0778]

A cancerous tumor can be removed from the body, but we have to have some kind of control over who gets surveilled and for what reason. If you can't see that then I don't know what to tell you. To think that the FISA Court system can be done away with without anything else to takeover their function is nonsense.

And the only way to do this is through a totally secretive fake "court", more suited to East Germany than the USA that you and I grew up in.

Fuck my life....The republic is dead.

So make it less secretive. Change the process, obviously we cannot trust the FBI, DOJ, or any of the other federal agencies to protect our civil rights, so we could create a separate and distinct group to do that; whose job it would be present the reasons why a FISA application should not be granted or at least investigated/reviewed. Or granted but with stipulations or restrictions as appropriate. That separate group would report to Congress on a regular basis but with immediate access to the appropriate committees. And toughen up the laws, if you lie or misrepresent information to the Court then your happy ass goes to prison, minimum 5 years. And no requirement to prove intent either.

No question, the current process has been abused, and apparently quite often too. But there are times when a US citizen becomes involved in nefarious activities related to national security, and they should be surveilled if the circumstances warrant it. Does anyone want to suggest that such surveillance should be completed eliminated? In this day and age, doesn't that leave us even more vulnerable to attacks? I do not have numbers available, but there have been numerous cases where a terrorist attack was prevented because the FBI got a FISA warrant and obtained enough information to arrest the bad guys before anyone got hurt or killed.

Example: You don’t hear about typical FISA operations such as the one that nabbed Najibullah Zazi. According to the NSA, an email address used by an al Qaeda courier in Pakistan was targeted for interception. One intercepted message indicated that a person in the U.S. was seeking advice on how to make explosives. The FBI identified that person as Mr. Zazi and their investigation led to a terror cell of which he was a member that was planning bomb attacks on New York subways. Mr. Zazi and other members of the terrorist cell were arrested and convicted of planning the attacks.

That’s only one of the hundreds of successes under FISA that have made the law probably the most valuable tool our intelligence agencies have in the war against Islamic terrorism.

For such warrants, we need a specialized court that understands the specific laws and associated civil rights and can make the best informed decisions. This is a necessary function of gov't IMHO, either change the current FISA system so it works better or create a new system. But don't eliminate the FISA process; fix it so it isn't so easily abused AND isn't as secretive. Do they ever report to Congress? They certainly should. It won't be perfect, no system that has people involved ever is.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Dr.Paul warned us that this crap was ripe for abuse and he was proved correct...If we took a cancerous tumor out of you, what would we replace it with?...Would you be better off without cancer?...How?

If we get rid of FISA courts, the surveilance will still continue though. Only without a trail you can go back and look at, so seems to me that would be even worse.

Arent military courts subject to FOIA requests? How is that 'without a tail?'

The problem may be though, that there are judges in these courts who are biased and willing to give into their biases. So yeah, theres a problem with the courts as they are. Perhaps these Judges need to be made more accountable and not given this cloak of secrecy. AT least accountable to a higher up court and taken to task if they abuse their power.

If no one is held accountable for the Carter Page and George Papodopolis abuse, FISA needs to be BURNED to the ground and sown with salt.