Should medical personnel be able to refuse to do their job based on religious beliefs

[Immanuel]

A young female goes to an emergency room at 0300 and complains of pain and bleeding. Clearly the pregnancy has gone bad in both the patient and Doctors opinion. However, the MD is oppose to abortion under an circumstance.

The patient calls a taxi and is driven to the nearest hospital, 5 miles away. During the ride she dies of exsanguination.

Q. Should the MD be charged with a crime?

Q. As a member of the jury, should the MD be charged and the facts are as stated, how would you find?

Q. As the judge, and if the MD were found guilty of (F) Manslaughter would you send her/him to prison; place him/her on probation with a county jail sentence or before deliberation set aside the finding of the jury?

No, not guilty, depends on the laws of the state of jurisdiction.

However, it would be the responsibility of the MD to provide life saving services before releasing the patient unless the patient checks herself out against medical advice. Abortions are by no means "life saving services".

Immie

Bzzzzt. They are in this case.

Try again.

Bzzzzt wrong. The victim wasn't in any danger. The only individual in danger is the innocent product of the rape.

I'd tell you to try again, but it is obvious that once again you would fail.

Immie

 

[Wry Catcher]

A young female goes to an emergency room at 0300 and complains of pain and bleeding. Clearly the pregnancy has gone bad in both the patient and Doctors opinion. However, the MD is oppose to abortion under an circumstance.

The patient calls a taxi and is driven to the nearest hospital, 5 miles away. During the ride she dies of exsanguination.

Q. Should the MD be charged with a crime?

Q. As a member of the jury, should the MD be charged and the facts are as stated, how would you find?

Q. As the judge, and if the MD were found guilty of (F) Manslaughter would you send her/him to prison; place him/her on probation with a county jail sentence or before deliberation set aside the finding of the jury?

No, not guilty, depends on the laws of the state of jurisdiction.

However, it would be the responsibility of the MD to provide life saving services before releasing the patient unless the patient checks herself out against medical advice. Abortions are by no means "life saving services".

Immie

Please don't restate the questions. The facts as given are hypocthetical and don't require explanations or spin. She was bleeding, she was pregnant and the MD knew the preganancy had gone bad. I could spin the question by stating God made the preganacy go bad so the MD was not violating his/her oath or the law.

 

[BDBoop]

No, not guilty, depends on the laws of the state of jurisdiction.

However, it would be the responsibility of the MD to provide life saving services before releasing the patient unless the patient checks herself out against medical advice. Abortions are by no means "life saving services".

Immie

Bzzzzt. They are in this case.

Try again.

Bzzzzt wrong. The victim wasn't in any danger. The only individual in danger is the innocent product of the rape.

I'd tell you to try again, but it is obvious that once again you would fail.

Immie

Oh, I'm sorry. I hadn't realized you can't read.

Carry on.

A young female goes to an emergency room at 0300 and complains of pain and bleeding. Clearly the pregnancy has gone bad in both the patient and Doctors opinion. However, the MD is oppose to abortion under any circumstances.

The patient calls a taxi and is driven to the nearest hospital, 5 miles away. During the ride she dies of exsanguination.

 

[Immanuel]

A young female goes to an emergency room at 0300 and complains of pain and bleeding. Clearly the pregnancy has gone bad in both the patient and Doctors opinion. However, the MD is oppose to abortion under an circumstance.

The patient calls a taxi and is driven to the nearest hospital, 5 miles away. During the ride she dies of exsanguination.

Q. Should the MD be charged with a crime?

Q. As a member of the jury, should the MD be charged and the facts are as stated, how would you find?

Q. As the judge, and if the MD were found guilty of (F) Manslaughter would you send her/him to prison; place him/her on probation with a county jail sentence or before deliberation set aside the finding of the jury?

No, not guilty, depends on the laws of the state of jurisdiction.

However, it would be the responsibility of the MD to provide life saving services before releasing the patient unless the patient checks herself out against medical advice. Abortions are by no means "life saving services".

Immie

Please don't restate the questions. The facts as given are hypocthetical and don't require explanations or spin. She was bleeding, she was preganat and he knew the preganancy had gone bad. I could spin the question by stating God made the preganacy go bad so the MD was not violating his/her oath or the law.

I answered all three of your questions.

Q1) No
Q2) Not Guilty
Q3) Depends on the laws of the state.

Don't like the answers that is not my fault.

As stated, in your hypothetical, she needed life saving services. He was required to give her life saving services. He was not required to give her an abortion.

You can attempt all you want to make up some kind of BS argument that she was going to die if she didn't get an abortion, but that doesn't happen and you are only attempting to throw in fallacious arguments to prove points that don't exist.

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

No, not guilty, depends on the laws of the state of jurisdiction.

However, it would be the responsibility of the MD to provide life saving services before releasing the patient unless the patient checks herself out against medical advice. Abortions are by no means "life saving services".

Immie

Please don't restate the questions. The facts as given are hypocthetical and don't require explanations or spin. She was bleeding, she was preganat and he knew the preganancy had gone bad. I could spin the question by stating God made the preganacy go bad so the MD was not violating his/her oath or the law.

I answered all three of your questions.

Q1) No
Q2) Not Guilty
Q3) Depends on the laws of the state.

Don't like the answers that is not my fault.

As stated, in your hypothetical, she needed life saving services. He was required to give her life saving services. He was not required to give her an abortion.

You can attempt all you want to make up some kind of BS argument that she was going to die if she didn't get an abortion, but that doesn't happen and you are only attempting to throw in fallacious arguments to prove points that don't exist.

Immie

Your efforts, WC, are obvious. You are attempting to make it seem as if people who don't agree with you have no compassion and would allow the woman to die.

You would have deceitfully stated that anyone that answered your questions in the way that I did, does not care for the woman and would let her die. It was a piss poor effort at dishonesty on your part.

Immie

 

[PredFan]

Should people force their religious beliefs onto others?

Certainly not but that is not what that person was doing was it?

Yes. It was. She refused to give the morning after pill, when faced with a rape victim that she knew was a rape victim, because it was "against her religion."

That isn't forcing her religion on the person. It is practicing her religion. There's a difference. Why the hospital didn't just find another person to give the pill is beyond me.

 

[PredFan]

A young female goes to an emergency room at 0300 and complains of pain and bleeding. Clearly the pregnancy has gone bad in both the patient and Doctors opinion. However, the MD is oppose to abortion under an circumstance.

The patient calls a taxi and is driven to the nearest hospital, 5 miles away. During the ride she dies of exsanguination.

Q. Should the MD be charged with a crime?

No, the hospital should. the hospital emergency department would never send a woman who was bleeding away to take a cab. The hospital is liable.

Q. As a member of the jury, should the MD be charged and the facts are as stated, how would you find?

Not guilty, the hospital is liable, not the physician.

Q. As the judge, and if the MD were found guilty of (F) Manslaughter would you send her/him to prison; place him/her on probation with a county jail sentence or before deliberation set aside the finding of the jury?

if I was any kind of competant judge, I'd have thrown the case out before much more time was wasted.

Now, I would find the hospital liable for the death for gross neglegence at the least.

 

[PredFan]

A young female goes to an emergency room at 0300 and complains of pain and bleeding. Clearly the pregnancy has gone bad in both the patient and Doctors opinion. However, the MD is oppose to abortion under an circumstance.

The patient calls a taxi and is driven to the nearest hospital, 5 miles away. During the ride she dies of exsanguination.

Q. Should the MD be charged with a crime?

Q. As a member of the jury, should the MD be charged and the facts are as stated, how would you find?

Q. As the judge, and if the MD were found guilty of (F) Manslaughter would you send her/him to prison; place him/her on probation with a county jail sentence or before deliberation set aside the finding of the jury?

No, not guilty, depends on the laws of the state of jurisdiction.

However, it would be the responsibility of the MD to provide life saving services before releasing the patient unless the patient checks herself out against medical advice. Abortions are by no means "life saving services".

Immie

Please don't restate the questions. The facts as given are hypocthetical and don't require explanations or spin. She was bleeding, she was pregnant and the MD knew the preganancy had gone bad. I could spin the question by stating God made the preganacy go bad so the MD was not violating his/her oath or the law.

But this would never ever happen. unless the doctor was bat shit crazy, but then no nurse worth her pay would allow the doctor to release her. No nurse, no nurse practitioner, no charge nurse or nurse administrator either.

So in order for your hypothetical to work, it has to be changed, and even then it fails.

 

[Immanuel]

No, not guilty, depends on the laws of the state of jurisdiction.

However, it would be the responsibility of the MD to provide life saving services before releasing the patient unless the patient checks herself out against medical advice. Abortions are by no means "life saving services".

Immie

Please don't restate the questions. The facts as given are hypocthetical and don't require explanations or spin. She was bleeding, she was pregnant and the MD knew the preganancy had gone bad. I could spin the question by stating God made the preganacy go bad so the MD was not violating his/her oath or the law.

But this would never ever happen. unless the doctor was bat shit crazy, but then no nurse worth her pay would allow the doctor to release her. No nurse, no nurse practitioner, no charge nurse or nurse administrator either.

So in order for your hypothetical to work, it has to be changed, and even then it fails.

His question was nothing more than a pathetic attempt at a trap. It was not even as well thought out as the old "when did you stop beating your wife?" trap.

Immie

 

[PredFan]

Please don't restate the questions. The facts as given are hypocthetical and don't require explanations or spin. She was bleeding, she was pregnant and the MD knew the preganancy had gone bad. I could spin the question by stating God made the preganacy go bad so the MD was not violating his/her oath or the law.

But this would never ever happen. unless the doctor was bat shit crazy, but then no nurse worth her pay would allow the doctor to release her. No nurse, no nurse practitioner, no charge nurse or nurse administrator either.

So in order for your hypothetical to work, it has to be changed, and even then it fails.

His question was nothing more than a pathetic attempt at a trap. It was not even as well thought out as the old "when did you stop beating your wife?" trap.

Immie

Of course.

 

[PredFan]

Taking WryCatcher's failed hypothetical and putting it into the real world:

A young mother comes in in pain and bleeding from the vagina. the doctor says the pregnancy has "gone bad" (which leaves a whole lot out).

My initial diagnosis is abruptio placentae and I would confirm it by ultrasound. there really isn't any other diagnosuis that fits the description and the phrase "Pregnancy has gone bad". In this case the fetus will die unless an emergency C-Section is performed. Since that is not the same as an abortion, the doctor should have no problem with it. IF the fetus is less than 24 weeks gestation then the fetus will die and be spontaneously aborted anyway. Thus not violating the doctor's supposed religious beliefs. Monitoring the mother and giving blood PRN until that happens can be reasonably safe if an abortion is not performed.

 

[Wry Catcher]

A young female goes to an emergency room at 0300 and complains of pain and bleeding. Clearly the pregnancy has gone bad in both the patient and Doctors opinion. However, the MD is oppose to abortion under an circumstance.

The patient calls a taxi and is driven to the nearest hospital, 5 miles away. During the ride she dies of exsanguination.

Q. Should the MD be charged with a crime?

No, the hospital should. the hospital emergency department would never send a woman who was bleeding away to take a cab. The hospital is liable.

At 0300 in many hospitals the ER Doctor is the one in charge.

Q. As a member of the jury, should the MD be charged and the facts are as stated, how would you find?

Not guilty, the hospital is liable, not the physician.

Not guilty on a criminal charge. How about liability in a civil action? Remember, Duty, Breach, Harm

Q. As the judge, and if the MD were found guilty of (F) Manslaughter would you send her/him to prison; place him/her on probation with a county jail sentence or before deliberation set aside the finding of the jury?

if I was any kind of competant judge, I'd have thrown the case out before much more time was wasted.

Now, I would find the hospital liable for the death for gross neglegence at the least.

Gross negligence can be very expensive, and I would suspect the MD would be defended by his own council and the Hospital's legal staff would point their fingers right at the MD.

 

[PredFan]

A young female goes to an emergency room at 0300 and complains of pain and bleeding. Clearly the pregnancy has gone bad in both the patient and Doctors opinion. However, the MD is oppose to abortion under an circumstance.

The patient calls a taxi and is driven to the nearest hospital, 5 miles away. During the ride she dies of exsanguination.

Q. Should the MD be charged with a crime?

No, the hospital should. the hospital emergency department would never send a woman who was bleeding away to take a cab. The hospital is liable.

At 0300 in many hospitals the ER Doctor is the one in charge.



Not guilty, the hospital is liable, not the physician.

Not guilty on a criminal charge. How about liability in a civil action? Remember, Duty, Breach, Harm

Q. As the judge, and if the MD were found guilty of (F) Manslaughter would you send her/him to prison; place him/her on probation with a county jail sentence or before deliberation set aside the finding of the jury?

if I was any kind of competant judge, I'd have thrown the case out before much more time was wasted.

Now, I would find the hospital liable for the death for gross neglegence at the least.

Gross negligence can be very expensive, and I would suspect the MD would be defended by his own council and the Hospital's legal staff would point their fingers right at the MD.

Excuse me but you have no idea what you are talking about. A nurse has every right and even has the resposibility to be tha p;atient's advocate. Any nurse could and would stand up to this doctor and prevent him from harming the patient. no hospital in the US would ever stand with the doctor in this case.

Again, if this completely unrealistic scenario had a chance to be true, the Hospital would be liable, not the doctor. but it wouldn't happen anyway so the question is moot.

Doesn't matter who the hospital points to. The Hospital is liable.

 

[PredFan]

Now, if you take the scenario and transfer it to the OB's private office, then the doctor would be liable. Also the nurse(s) that didn't prevent the doctor from this irresponsible act would also be held liable and at the very least never be allowed to have a nursing license again.

 

[Catalist]

I'd fire an employee who refused to do their job on the spot. They should have thought this out before they accepted the position. Keep your holy roller crap out of the workplace.

 

[geauxtohell]

A young female goes to an emergency room at 0300 and complains of pain and bleeding. Clearly the pregnancy has gone bad in both the patient and Doctors opinion. However, the MD is oppose to abortion under an circumstance.

The patient calls a taxi and is driven to the nearest hospital, 5 miles away. During the ride she dies of exsanguination.

Q. Should the MD be charged with a crime?

Q. As a member of the jury, should the MD be charged and the facts are as stated, how would you find?

Q. As the judge, and if the MD were found guilty of (F) Manslaughter would you send her/him to prison; place him/her on probation with a county jail sentence or before deliberation set aside the finding of the jury?

I am stealing this.

 

[BDBoop]

A young female goes to an emergency room at 0300 and complains of pain and bleeding. Clearly the pregnancy has gone bad in both the patient and Doctors opinion. However, the MD is oppose to abortion under an circumstance.

The patient calls a taxi and is driven to the nearest hospital, 5 miles away. During the ride she dies of exsanguination.

Q. Should the MD be charged with a crime?

Q. As a member of the jury, should the MD be charged and the facts are as stated, how would you find?

Q. As the judge, and if the MD were found guilty of (F) Manslaughter would you send her/him to prison; place him/her on probation with a county jail sentence or before deliberation set aside the finding of the jury?

I am stealing this.

Thank you. Since you actually ARE a doctor, I think it is probably easier for you to see the possible reality inherent.

 

[PredFan]

A young female goes to an emergency room at 0300 and complains of pain and bleeding. Clearly the pregnancy has gone bad in both the patient and Doctors opinion. However, the MD is oppose to abortion under an circumstance.

The patient calls a taxi and is driven to the nearest hospital, 5 miles away. During the ride she dies of exsanguination.

Q. Should the MD be charged with a crime?

Q. As a member of the jury, should the MD be charged and the facts are as stated, how would you find?

Q. As the judge, and if the MD were found guilty of (F) Manslaughter would you send her/him to prison; place him/her on probation with a county jail sentence or before deliberation set aside the finding of the jury?

I am stealing this.

Don't. It's a failed scenario.

 

[PredFan]

I was thinking about this overnight, and I tried to come up with a scenario that would fit WryCatcher's purpose.

I could only come up with one scenario. There are others but they are so rare as to be beyond my being able to explain them.

A woman who is 15 weeks pregnant shows up in the ER. Her blood pressure is through the roof, she has a fever, pain in her abdomen and back. Further tests show she has high protein and glocose levels in her urine. Fetal heart rate is normal and ultrasound confirms fetal movement.

Diagnosis: Pre-ecclampsia

Pre-ecclampsia is the most common life-threatening complication of pregnancy. The only real reliable treatenment is ending the pregnancy. In many cases, treatment with Magnesium Sulfate, blood pressure medications and IV fluids can stablize the mother but in some cases it doesn't work.

In this case say, the treatment is ineffective. Since the fetus is not viable outside of the womb, and the mother is not in labor, the fetus must be aborted.

1. You won't find any doctor anywhere who wouldn't abort the fetus.

2. You wouldn't find, outside of the Westboro Baptist Church, a Right to Lifer who wouldn't agree that the fetus must be aborted in this case.

3. No Hospital administrator, no Medical Director, no Nurse, or Nurse manager, would ever allow this doctor (who wouldn't exist) to let this woman to die from lack of an abortion.

The whole idea is a moot point.

 

[Katzndogz]

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Refusing to give a post-rape contraceptive based on religion? I think that lady needs a new job.

Should the government dictate to people how to do their jobs. Should the government force people to violate their religious beliefs?

Should people force their religious beliefs onto others?

Should people force their atheism on others?

There are two issues here. One is that should a woman have access to a post rape contraceptive. Absolutely. The second is, should someone who has taken the Hippocratic oath to do harm violate that oath if they believe a contraceptive does harm? The answer has to be no. Otherwise decsions of conscience is wholly taken over by odd rules and regulations to the point where it should well not even exist.