Should medical personnel be able to refuse to do their job based on religious beliefs

[WorldWatcher]

I was thinking about this overnight, and I tried to come up with a scenario that would fit WryCatcher's purpose.

I could only come up with one scenario. There are others but they are so rare as to be beyond my being able to explain them.

A woman who is 15 weeks pregnant shows up in the ER. Her blood pressure is through the roof, she has a fever, pain in her abdomen and back. Further tests show she has high protein and glocose levels in her urine. Fetal heart rate is normal and ultrasound confirms fetal movement.

Diagnosis: Pre-ecclampsia

Pre-ecclampsia is the most common life-threatening complication of pregnancy. The only real reliable treatenment is ending the pregnancy. In many cases, treatment with Magnesium Sulfate, blood pressure medications and IV fluids can stablize the mother but in some cases it doesn't work.

In this case say, the treatment is ineffective. Since the fetus is not viable outside of the womb, and the mother is not in labor, the fetus must be aborted.

1. You won't find any doctor anywhere who wouldn't abort the fetus.

2. You wouldn't find, outside of the Westboro Baptist Church, a Right to Lifer who wouldn't agree that the fetus must be aborted in this case.

3. No Hospital administrator, no Medical Director, no Nurse, or Nurse manager, would ever allow this doctor (who wouldn't exist) to let this woman to die from lack of an abortion.

The whole idea is a moot point.

Are you familiar with the case of Sister Margaret McBride?


Excommunication of Margaret McBride - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


>>>>

 

[PredFan]

I was thinking about this overnight, and I tried to come up with a scenario that would fit WryCatcher's purpose.

I could only come up with one scenario. There are others but they are so rare as to be beyond my being able to explain them.

A woman who is 15 weeks pregnant shows up in the ER. Her blood pressure is through the roof, she has a fever, pain in her abdomen and back. Further tests show she has high protein and glocose levels in her urine. Fetal heart rate is normal and ultrasound confirms fetal movement.

Diagnosis: Pre-ecclampsia

Pre-ecclampsia is the most common life-threatening complication of pregnancy. The only real reliable treatenment is ending the pregnancy. In many cases, treatment with Magnesium Sulfate, blood pressure medications and IV fluids can stablize the mother but in some cases it doesn't work.

In this case say, the treatment is ineffective. Since the fetus is not viable outside of the womb, and the mother is not in labor, the fetus must be aborted.

1. You won't find any doctor anywhere who wouldn't abort the fetus.

2. You wouldn't find, outside of the Westboro Baptist Church, a Right to Lifer who wouldn't agree that the fetus must be aborted in this case.

3. No Hospital administrator, no Medical Director, no Nurse, or Nurse manager, would ever allow this doctor (who wouldn't exist) to let this woman to die from lack of an abortion.

The whole idea is a moot point.

Are you familiar with the case of Sister Margaret McBride?


Excommunication of Margaret McBride - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


>>>>

I am now. Thanks for proving my point.

 

[geauxtohell]

I was thinking about this overnight, and I tried to come up with a scenario that would fit WryCatcher's purpose.

I could only come up with one scenario. There are others but they are so rare as to be beyond my being able to explain them.

A woman who is 15 weeks pregnant shows up in the ER. Her blood pressure is through the roof, she has a fever, pain in her abdomen and back. Further tests show she has high protein and glocose levels in her urine. Fetal heart rate is normal and ultrasound confirms fetal movement.

Diagnosis: Pre-ecclampsia

Pre-ecclampsia is the most common life-threatening complication of pregnancy. The only real reliable treatenment is ending the pregnancy. In many cases, treatment with Magnesium Sulfate, blood pressure medications and IV fluids can stablize the mother but in some cases it doesn't work.

In this case say, the treatment is ineffective. Since the fetus is not viable outside of the womb, and the mother is not in labor, the fetus must be aborted.

1. You won't find any doctor anywhere who wouldn't abort the fetus.

2. You wouldn't find, outside of the Westboro Baptist Church, a Right to Lifer who wouldn't agree that the fetus must be aborted in this case.

3. No Hospital administrator, no Medical Director, no Nurse, or Nurse manager, would ever allow this doctor (who wouldn't exist) to let this woman to die from lack of an abortion.

The whole idea is a moot point.

Pre-ecclampsia before 20 weeks?

 

[PredFan]

I was thinking about this overnight, and I tried to come up with a scenario that would fit WryCatcher's purpose.

I could only come up with one scenario. There are others but they are so rare as to be beyond my being able to explain them.

A woman who is 15 weeks pregnant shows up in the ER. Her blood pressure is through the roof, she has a fever, pain in her abdomen and back. Further tests show she has high protein and glocose levels in her urine. Fetal heart rate is normal and ultrasound confirms fetal movement.

Diagnosis: Pre-ecclampsia

Pre-ecclampsia is the most common life-threatening complication of pregnancy. The only real reliable treatenment is ending the pregnancy. In many cases, treatment with Magnesium Sulfate, blood pressure medications and IV fluids can stablize the mother but in some cases it doesn't work.

In this case say, the treatment is ineffective. Since the fetus is not viable outside of the womb, and the mother is not in labor, the fetus must be aborted.

1. You won't find any doctor anywhere who wouldn't abort the fetus.

2. You wouldn't find, outside of the Westboro Baptist Church, a Right to Lifer who wouldn't agree that the fetus must be aborted in this case.

3. No Hospital administrator, no Medical Director, no Nurse, or Nurse manager, would ever allow this doctor (who wouldn't exist) to let this woman to die from lack of an abortion.

The whole idea is a moot point.

Pre-ecclampsia before 20 weeks?

It's not unknown, I picked 15 so that someone couldn't shoot down my scenario with "Just do a C-Section and let the baby have a chance". Trust me, I have struggled to find a scenario that fit what WC was trying to do. That was the best I could come up with.

If I said 20 weeks that would most likely work as well.

 

[geauxtohell]

I was thinking about this overnight, and I tried to come up with a scenario that would fit WryCatcher's purpose.

I could only come up with one scenario. There are others but they are so rare as to be beyond my being able to explain them.

A woman who is 15 weeks pregnant shows up in the ER. Her blood pressure is through the roof, she has a fever, pain in her abdomen and back. Further tests show she has high protein and glocose levels in her urine. Fetal heart rate is normal and ultrasound confirms fetal movement.

Diagnosis: Pre-ecclampsia

Pre-ecclampsia is the most common life-threatening complication of pregnancy. The only real reliable treatenment is ending the pregnancy. In many cases, treatment with Magnesium Sulfate, blood pressure medications and IV fluids can stablize the mother but in some cases it doesn't work.

In this case say, the treatment is ineffective. Since the fetus is not viable outside of the womb, and the mother is not in labor, the fetus must be aborted.

1. You won't find any doctor anywhere who wouldn't abort the fetus.

2. You wouldn't find, outside of the Westboro Baptist Church, a Right to Lifer who wouldn't agree that the fetus must be aborted in this case.

3. No Hospital administrator, no Medical Director, no Nurse, or Nurse manager, would ever allow this doctor (who wouldn't exist) to let this woman to die from lack of an abortion.

The whole idea is a moot point.

Pre-ecclampsia before 20 weeks?

It's not unknown, I picked 15 so that someone couldn't shoot down my scenario with "Just do a C-Section and let the baby have a chance". Trust me, I have struggled to find a scenario that fit what WC was trying to do. That was the best I could come up with.

If I said 20 weeks that would most likely work as well.

I object! This hypothetical is completely improbable.

J/k. A 20 week fetus is also non viable, but I get what you were going for.

Though I think more than a few posters on here would oppose a terminating the fetus in this instance.

 

[BDBoop]

 

[Cecilie1200]

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Refusing to give a post-rape contraceptive based on religion? I think that lady needs a new job.

Since you're not employing her, I think it's not your call and none of your business.

Your poll is disingenuous for the same reason: it assumes that it's the business of anyone but the person's employer, and forgets to mention that the REAL question is "Should meddling, self-important liberals be allowed to make laws concerning whether people can refuse to do what the liberals consider to be their job, without asking the employers THEIR opinion at all?"

Try to grasp this with both of your functioning brain cells: If I own a pharmacy, and I decide that it's all right with me if one of my pharmacists doesn't want to sell birth control pills, it is NOT YOUR PLACE to come in and say, "Well, I want to buy them right now, and I think it's a pharmacist's job to sell them, so I'm going to demand that a law be passed forcing all of your employees to sell them."

And if I decide it's not okay with me for one of my pharmacists to refuse to sell birth control pills for religious reasons, I neither need nor want your stupid, meddling law to help me either fire that person or refuse to hire him in the first place, since absolutely no one is suggesting that employers shouldn't have that right.

So once again, you are superfluous and interjecting yourself where you aren't wanted. Big shock.

 

[geauxtohell]

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Refusing to give a post-rape contraceptive based on religion? I think that lady needs a new job.

Since you're not employing her, I think it's not your call and none of your business.

Yes. If you aren't directly involved in an issue, then you have no right to discuss it on an Internet Message board.....

That was especially stupid, even for you.



What, did you get smacked too hard in the head this weekend or something?

 

[auditor0007]

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Refusing to give a post-rape contraceptive based on religion? I think that lady needs a new job.

Should the government dictate to people how to do their jobs. Should the government force people to violate their religious beliefs?

I agree, a Jehovah's Witness should never perform a blood transfusion even if it would save the patient's life.

 

[Cecilie1200]

nooooooo the first vow is do no harm....

come on.....how far will you go on this slippery slope?

if the continues...medical schools will stop accepting people who profess this stuff...i hope....

if you are not willing to be of total help to your patients dont become a doctor....simple as that

Who said YOU get to define "harm"?

 

[Cecilie1200]

nooooooo the first vow is do no harm....

come on.....how far will you go on this slippery slope?

if the continues...medical schools will stop accepting people who profess this stuff...i hope....

if you are not willing to be of total help to your patients dont become a doctor....simple as that

Said medical professionals are protecting all lives presented to them rather than destroying one for the selfish reasons of the other.

Immie

She. Was. RAPED.

And that makes the baby less alive somehow?

Oh, wait, I forgot, you're a biology moron who avoids scientific education like the plague, because it might challenge your childlike conviction that YOU are the center of the universe. If God Almighty appeared in front of you and said, "BDPoop, unborn children are living human beings", you'd scream, "They're unliving tissue mass, because I WANT THEM TO BE!" in His face.

Liberals = the ultimate triumph of emotion over intelligence.

 

[Cecilie1200]

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Refusing to give a post-rape contraceptive based on religion? I think that lady needs a new job.

If you want to go into PRIVATE practice.... do what ever you want.

However...if you are being paid to do a job.... shut the fuck up and do your job. It is after all what you are being paid for.

And if YOU are not the one paying for the job, shut the fuck up and stop trying to define what they're being paid for.

 

[geauxtohell]

News9.com Videos - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports |

Refusing to give a post-rape contraceptive based on religion? I think that lady needs a new job.

If you want to go into PRIVATE practice.... do what ever you want.

However...if you are being paid to do a job.... shut the fuck up and do your job. It is after all what you are being paid for.

And if YOU are not the one paying for the job, shut the fuck up and stop trying to define what they're being paid for.

I suggest you keep up the whole "you have no right to talk about this" line.

In no way does it make you look stupid.......

 

[Cecilie1200]

News9.com Videos - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports |

Refusing to give a post-rape contraceptive based on religion? I think that lady needs a new job.

If you want to go into PRIVATE practice.... do what ever you want.

However...if you are being paid to do a job.... shut the fuck up and do your job. It is after all what you are being paid for.

Thank you.

And I'm sure the one named after Christ will understand that I no longer wish to discuss this with his intolerant, judgmental ass.

Yes, I'm sure he will understand that you never discuss the possibility that you are less than the morally superior, splendiferous center of the universe, and any suggestion otherwise is immediately met with, "You're intolerant and bigoted! I'm not going to talk to you!"

The day your echo chamber busts and you have to acknowledge the reality of yourself is going to be a busy, ugly day for the Suicide Hotline.

 

[Cecilie1200]

and forced to bear the child of the rapist....do you think that would make it hard to love that child?

Only to people who are fucked in the head and can't view children as separate individuals from their parents.

If you end up hating and despising your husband, do you hate and despise the children you had with him because of it? That's messed up.

 

[koshergrl]

nooooooo the first vow is do no harm....

come on.....how far will you go on this slippery slope?

if the continues...medical schools will stop accepting people who profess this stuff...i hope....

if you are not willing to be of total help to your patients dont become a doctor....simple as that

Funny, that's what doctors who object to abortion say is the problem with it...it sort of puts the lie to "do no harm"...

 

[Cecilie1200]

then we need warning signs on the way in...dont we? the person on duty is not gonna treat a rape victim as a victim but as someone to be shamed...

What? Like a flashing Neon banner? Call the doctor in advance and give the nature of the problem. Rape has to be a really hard thing and I wish it on no one, but are we writing a manual on how to live or whether or not individuals should have liberty?

One's place of employment, particularly in this field, is not a venue for 'self expression'.

Actually, it is. If you're the business owner, you absolutely get to "self-express" what you will and won't provide. If you're an employee, then it's up to YOUR EMPLOYER whether or not you get to rule out certain things. It is at no time up to the customer to dictate what ANYONE is or isn't providing. All the customer gets to decide is whether or not to take their business elsewhere.

 

[Cecilie1200]

That's what it's come down to.

No, what it boils down to is that you believe you have the right to demand services that others do not wish to provide.

You believe that you have the right to force a medical provider to provide a service that he or she has an ethical reason for not wanting to provide.

You must also believe that you have the right to force your garbage man to enter your backyard and clean up the dog shit that you don't want to clean up. After all... he is your servant.

You didn't answer my question about the John and the prostitute who refuses to perform anal sex. Does he have the right to demand she perform that service for him? Under your system he most certainly does.

BTW: I never said, I would not perform any service. If I were a medical provider, I would not perform abortions. Not in a million years. I'm up in the air on emergency contraception. Obviously, you believe you would have the right to force me to perform an abortion for you. You do not respect my right to choose who my patients are or my right to tell you that I will not be your doctor.

That makes you the evil person, not me.

Immie

No, that is not what it boils down to.

If the doctor has a right not to offer someone legal treatments then it boils down to the need for patients to be informed about which doctors they need to seek out to get the treatment they feel they need.

I'm certainly not talking about forcing the doctor, not demanding that anyone violate their conscience, but if a doctor is going to choose to invoke a conscience exemption, then patients should be informed of this so that they can get treatments in a timely manner.

Who says they DON'T have a legal right to be informed? You know how you handle that? Sit down and talk to your medical provider BEFORE you need him for something. Duhh. Is a little personal responsibility and due diligence too much for you people to manage?

I know EXACTLY what services my gynecologist performs and what products he will and won't prescribe. In turn, HE knows exactly what my feelings are on the subject of my reproductive health. No surprises there. I don't go to him demanding birth control implants, because I know he won't prescribe them. When I got a surprise pregnancy at the age of 40, he didn't even bother to ask me about abortion.

And if all else fails, go to fucking Planned Parenthood. You know THOSE jackals won't balk at ANYTHING.

 

[Cecilie1200]

So I've goofed around on this thread a bit but seriously, I don't see how this can be okay. Think about it. Where does it stop?
A paramedic lets someone die because they are black or gay - or rich?
We go back to white only restaurants?
Firemen let houses burn.
Police let crimes happen.
The was a government funded hospital paid to provide a public service to the analogy with the firmen and police stand their ground.
Now I realize that Libertarians have the view anyone should be able to do anything they want but this doctor was paid to provide a public service and failed to do so.
I would still have a problem with say a pharmacist or whatever doing this but definitely not as much. This is no different than a Muslim fireman letting a house burn because it belongs to Christians.

It stops at the point where you stop expecting everyone on Earth to be evil and moronic simply because they are not YOU, enlightened liberal moralist that you are. Your analogies all involve completely insane delusions like a fire department hiring paramedics who would refuse to treat black people, or Jehovah's Witnesses who would work in an ER knowing perfectly well that they can't give blood transfusions.

Please try to understand that, not only are YOU and your leftist compatriots NOT the only intelligent, compassionate people in the world, you're not even close to being THE MOST intelligent and compassionate people. You don't need laws enslaving people to your personal whims and morals simply to protect yourself from the (untrue) fact that without leftist moral guidance, the world will dissolve into chaos, bigotry, and murder.

You might also try to get over this blatant and mistaken belief that religion is morally equivalent to racism and other evils. It says nothing about religious people, but it tells us entire volumes about YOU, and none of it good.

 

[Cecilie1200]

To the bolded:
Unless they are working in private practice....by themselves and for themselves..... you are not asking them to do anything other then the job they were hired for. You are demanding the service that the hospital is providing..... the services you are paying for.


As for the garbage man.... he is not there to pick up dog poo. He is paid to pick up your garbage cans. If for some reason you garbage cans are in your yard... they should go back and get them.....

The prostitute is in more or less private practice.... she has the right to say what she will do and not do...and for how much.

In re the medical professional, as stated earlier in this thread and many times before in other such discussions, if they are not willing to perform said duties, it is the employer's decision and no one else, including the victim, who has the right to decide if they are doing the job for which they were hired. The victim does not have the right to demand that the the professional nor his/her employer perform services that they are not willing to do.

Immie

Wrong. This was a public hospital that receives federal funding.

Which, amazingly enough, does NOT mean they don't still have the right, as the employer, to define FOR THEMSELVES what "doing the job" actually means.

You might also want to consider, while you've got your "I'm a taxpayer and I demand abortions!" panties up your ass, that that nurse is ALSO a taxpayer, as are many other religious people. So why is it that YOUR definition of what a public hospital should and shouldn't require automatically trumps THEIRS?