Should medical personnel be able to refuse to do their job based on religious beliefs

[BDBoop]

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Refusing to give a post-rape contraceptive based on religion? I think that lady needs a new job.

I see you don't believe in freedom of conscience.

See the post above yours for my answer.

 

[peach174]

Another Christian who has not her book.
I wouldn't like to see what judgment God will put upon her at judgment day.

Judge not, that ye be not judged.
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. Mk. 4.24

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Remember how Reagan passed that law that said hospitals had to treat people for life threatening injuries regardless of their ability to pay? Well wouldn't republicans, Ron Paul and Citizens United say that corporations are people and so you can't force a person to do business with someone who can't pay so why make hospitals? Wouldn't they say that law is unconstitutional? Yes they would, because they are fucking stupid.

Uh, no.

How am I wrong? You guys said Catholic Hospitals shouldn't have to cover contraception because of their religious beliefs. I didn't know hospitals had such religious beliefs?

And Citizens United and Romney said Corporations are people. No?

And the tea party and ron Paul say its unconstitutional or socialism when we try to nationalize or regulate the oil and healthcare companies, don't they?

And I'm sure the right wingers back in Reagan's day made these very arguments. AND, the tea baggers make Reagan look like Carter, don't they? He wouldn't even get the nomination if he ran today. Be honest.

I bet you the GOP today and the healthcare giants today would love to undo that law Reagan passed.

You're wrong in too many ways to cover. But for starters, Ron Paul does not support citizens United. Secondly, a CATHOLIC hospital is a religious institution. It isn't a government run nanny state one. Third, government running private enterprise is socialism and socialism doesn't work.

 

[Katzndogz]

Perhaps Catholic hospitals did themselves a disservice when they started hiring the public. When I was a little girl, the nurses were all nuns.

 

[geauxtohell]

I think it depends on the circumstances and how reasonable the religious objection is.

I don't think physicians should be able to refuse emergency contraception.

*edit*

However, the article is being a little disingenuous. SANE exams are conducted by specially trained nurses who know the legalities of obtaining forensic evidence that will be admissable. Physicians don't conduct these exams for fear of tainting evidence.

The physician most likely refused the exam for this reason and not on religious grounds.

 

[OldUSAFSniper]

As a member of the Tea Party I can tell you that IF Ronald Wilson Reagan were alive today and able to run for President, he would get the OVER WHELMING support of the Tea Party. If it wasn't unanimous, it would be very close. To say otherwise is total fabrication.

The question is: Up to this point in time, did medical professionals have the ability to object due to their religious beliefs? I believe they did. It has only recently become the mantra of some that a member of a medical profession cannot object based upon their religious beliefs. Barry and his cronies are trying to DICTATE what religious institutions can and cannot do. It's NEVER been about anything other than the left's attack on religion.

The woman that was raped, does she have just ONE doctor to approach regarding this issue? Probably not. IF you want an abortion, then seek out a physician that doesn't have a problem with providing them. Why are you so dead set against FORCING physicians to follow YOUR standards. Oh wait... they're not standing in line like the good little sheep you need them to be. I get it...

Shades of 1984

 

[BDBoop]

Another Christian who has not her book.
I wouldn't like to see what judgment God will put upon her at judgment day.

Judge not, that ye be not judged.
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. Mk. 4.24

Don't worry, honey; I've been beat up with a Bible since I was 14. It's all good.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Lots of central planners in here. It's a regular do as we say party!

 

[strollingbones]

Lots of central planners in here. It's a regular do as we say party!

you new here?

 

[WorldWatcher]

>


I'm sorry, I can't answer the poll because I think the question is framed incorrectly. The question isn't about a medical professional, IMHO, the question should be centered on medical practices (as in organizations).

The issue is, or IMHO, should be addressed between the employer and the medical professional in question. If the employer has policies in place that define the standards of care (in this case contraceptive medication to rape victims) and the medical professional violates those standards - then that is an employer/employee problem.

1. The employer can choose disallow such services, in which case the medical professional who refuses such treatments is in compliance with the employers policy. If the medical professional on the other hand prescribes such medications while working for that employer - then they can be disciplined or terminated.

2. The employer can choose allow such services and provide for individual exceptions. In which case it becomes the sole choice of the medical professional.

3. The employer can choose to apply it as a policy concerning standards of care. If a medical professional then refuses to provide treatment to a patient violating those standards - then that is an employer/employee problem.​

>>>>

 

[Immanuel]

That's what it's come down to.

No, what it boils down to is that you believe you have the right to demand services that others do not wish to provide.

You believe that you have the right to force a medical provider to provide a service that he or she has an ethical reason for not wanting to provide.

You must also believe that you have the right to force your garbage man to enter your backyard and clean up the dog shit that you don't want to clean up. After all... he is your servant.

You didn't answer my question about the John and the prostitute who refuses to perform anal sex. Does he have the right to demand she perform that service for him? Under your system he most certainly does.

BTW: I never said, I would not perform any service. If I were a medical provider, I would not perform abortions. Not in a million years. I'm up in the air on emergency contraception. Obviously, you believe you would have the right to force me to perform an abortion for you. You do not respect my right to choose who my patients are or my right to tell you that I will not be your doctor.

That makes you the evil person, not me.

Immie

No, that is not what it boils down to.

If the doctor has a right not to offer someone legal treatments then it boils down to the need for patients to be informed about which doctors they need to seek out to get the treatment they feel they need.

I'm certainly not talking about forcing the doctor, not demanding that anyone violate their conscience, but if a doctor is going to choose to invoke a conscience exemption, then patients should be informed of this so that they can get treatments in a timely manner.

And how do you propose such information be delivered? Maybe by some kind of a "scarlet letter" type deal? I'm pretty certain that what you mean to say is that medical professionals who don't see things in the "pro-choice" light should be ostracized, but maybe it is the abortionists and those who provide harmful services that should bear the brunt of the nation's wrath?

And, it seems to me that some individuals in this discussion are demanding indentured servitude for any and all with whom they do business.

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

That's what it's come down to.

No, what it boils down to is that you believe you have the right to demand services that others do not wish to provide.

You believe that you have the right to force a medical provider to provide a service that he or she has an ethical reason for not wanting to provide.

You must also believe that you have the right to force your garbage man to enter your backyard and clean up the dog shit that you don't want to clean up. After all... he is your servant.

You didn't answer my question about the John and the prostitute who refuses to perform anal sex. Does he have the right to demand she perform that service for him? Under your system he most certainly does.

BTW: I never said, I would not perform any service. If I were a medical provider, I would not perform abortions. Not in a million years. I'm up in the air on emergency contraception. Obviously, you believe you would have the right to force me to perform an abortion for you. You do not respect my right to choose who my patients are or my right to tell you that I will not be your doctor.

That makes you the evil person, not me. Edit: anyone who believe they have the right to enslave others is evil IMHO.

Immie

To the bolded:
Unless they are working in private practice....by themselves and for themselves..... you are not asking them to do anything other then the job they were hired for. You are demanding the service that the hospital is providing..... the services you are paying for.


As for the garbage man.... he is not there to pick up dog poo. He is paid to pick up your garbage cans. If for some reason you garbage cans are in your yard... they should go back and get them.....

The prostitute is in more or less private practice.... she has the right to say what she will do and not do...and for how much.

In re the medical professional, as stated earlier in this thread and many times before in other such discussions, if they are not willing to perform said duties, it is the employer's decision and no one else, including the victim, who has the right to decide if they are doing the job for which they were hired. The victim does not have the right to demand that the the professional nor his/her employer perform services that they are not willing to do.

Immie

 

[IndependntLogic]

No, what it boils down to is that you believe you have the right to demand services that others do not wish to provide.

You believe that you have the right to force a medical provider to provide a service that he or she has an ethical reason for not wanting to provide.

You must also believe that you have the right to force your garbage man to enter your backyard and clean up the dog shit that you don't want to clean up. After all... he is your servant.

You didn't answer my question about the John and the prostitute who refuses to perform anal sex. Does he have the right to demand she perform that service for him? Under your system he most certainly does.

BTW: I never said, I would not perform any service. If I were a medical provider, I would not perform abortions. Not in a million years. I'm up in the air on emergency contraception. Obviously, you believe you would have the right to force me to perform an abortion for you. You do not respect my right to choose who my patients are or my right to tell you that I will not be your doctor.

That makes you the evil person, not me. Edit: anyone who believe they have the right to enslave others is evil IMHO.

Immie

To the bolded:
Unless they are working in private practice....by themselves and for themselves..... you are not asking them to do anything other then the job they were hired for. You are demanding the service that the hospital is providing..... the services you are paying for.


As for the garbage man.... he is not there to pick up dog poo. He is paid to pick up your garbage cans. If for some reason you garbage cans are in your yard... they should go back and get them.....

The prostitute is in more or less private practice.... she has the right to say what she will do and not do...and for how much.

In re the medical professional, as stated earlier in this thread and many times before in other such discussions, if they are not willing to perform said duties, it is the employer's decision and no one else, including the victim, who has the right to decide if they are doing the job for which they were hired. The victim does not have the right to demand that the the professional nor his/her employer perform services that they are not willing to do.

Immie

Wrong. This was a public hospital that receives federal funding.

 

[Immanuel]

To the bolded:
Unless they are working in private practice....by themselves and for themselves..... you are not asking them to do anything other then the job they were hired for. You are demanding the service that the hospital is providing..... the services you are paying for.


As for the garbage man.... he is not there to pick up dog poo. He is paid to pick up your garbage cans. If for some reason you garbage cans are in your yard... they should go back and get them.....

The prostitute is in more or less private practice.... she has the right to say what she will do and not do...and for how much.

In re the medical professional, as stated earlier in this thread and many times before in other such discussions, if they are not willing to perform said duties, it is the employer's decision and no one else, including the victim, who has the right to decide if they are doing the job for which they were hired. The victim does not have the right to demand that the the professional nor his/her employer perform services that they are not willing to do.

Immie

Wrong. This was a public hospital that receives federal funding.

It is still an employer/employee relationship. You still have no right to force medical professionals to kill your grandmother so that you can collect your inheritance a few months early, do you? No, of course you do not. Neither do you have the right to force a medical professional to perform duties his or she is unwilling to do.

Immie

 

[Amelia]

No, what it boils down to is that you believe you have the right to demand services that others do not wish to provide.

You believe that you have the right to force a medical provider to provide a service that he or she has an ethical reason for not wanting to provide.

You must also believe that you have the right to force your garbage man to enter your backyard and clean up the dog shit that you don't want to clean up. After all... he is your servant.

You didn't answer my question about the John and the prostitute who refuses to perform anal sex. Does he have the right to demand she perform that service for him? Under your system he most certainly does.

BTW: I never said, I would not perform any service. If I were a medical provider, I would not perform abortions. Not in a million years. I'm up in the air on emergency contraception. Obviously, you believe you would have the right to force me to perform an abortion for you. You do not respect my right to choose who my patients are or my right to tell you that I will not be your doctor.

That makes you the evil person, not me.

Immie

No, that is not what it boils down to.

If the doctor has a right not to offer someone legal treatments then it boils down to the need for patients to be informed about which doctors they need to seek out to get the treatment they feel they need.

I'm certainly not talking about forcing the doctor, not demanding that anyone violate their conscience, but if a doctor is going to choose to invoke a conscience exemption, then patients should be informed of this so that they can get treatments in a timely manner.

And how do you propose such information be delivered? Maybe by some kind of a "scarlet letter" type deal? I'm pretty certain that what you mean to say is that medical professionals who don't see things in the "pro-choice" light should be ostracized, but maybe it is the abortionists and those who provide harmful services that should bear the brunt of the nation's wrath?

And, it seems to me that some individuals in this discussion are demanding indentured servitude for any and all with whom they do business.

Immie

It is a reasonable for a citizen who goes to a taxpayer funded emergency facility to assume that they will have access to legal services typically provided by taxpayer funded emergency facilities. If that is not the case, there should be a way to let citizens know where they need to go to get what they are legally allowed.

When a doctor opts out of giving legal services, patients who need the services need to know in a timely manner that they need to seek out a different doctor.

Take the brunt of your wrath and work to make the now-legal services illegal.





[edit: How should this information be given? I don't know. I would hope that taxpayer funded facilities wouldn't stop a rape victim from getting the care she needs. I'm not sure how she should be notified that a facility she and her family pay for won't help her. Maybe the desk clerk can be trained to redirect rape victims to appropriate facilities.]

 

[Avorysuds]

I voted yes, but the boss should be able to fire them for it.

 

[Katzndogz]

If some medical personnel does not want to administer contraception they should be able to say "Hey Jack, come over here and give this girl a plill".

If we can accommodate muslim grocery checkers who won't swipe the bacon we can accommodate religious medical personnel.

 

[starcraftzzz]

I wish I could tell my employer, "I refuse to work today but you still have to pay me"

 

[starcraftzzz]

If some medical personnel does not want to administer contraception they should be able to say "Hey Jack, come over here and give this girl a plill".

If we can accommodate muslim grocery checkers who won't swipe the bacon we can accommodate religious medical personnel.

I see so she we extend this to all jobs? "Hey you know what serving you cow is against my beliefs because I am a vegetarian therefor you can't have anything on the menu and dont bother complaining to my manager because we just made it so I cant get fired for not doing my job"

 

[uscitizen]

If some medical personnel does not want to administer contraception they should be able to say "Hey Jack, come over here and give this girl a plill".

If we can accommodate muslim grocery checkers who won't swipe the bacon we can accommodate religious medical personnel.

yes if not illegal no health care professional has the right to deny service based on their personal morals.'
Should a car wash be allowed to refuse to wash your car because of a Bush sticker on it?