Should I join Idaho's "The Citadel"

[Harry Dresden]

every gated community that i have ever been in (<< a frank confession) did none of what you describe....

Oh I'm sure they did. What the hell is a gated community for if not to isolate and numb its population from/to the evil sulphuric land of fornicators and people who dare to not look like you? What else could be the point?

What else could it be?
A gated community is about safety. Nothing more.
For you to say anything else marks you as one of the haters. Or maybe one of the people I'm trying to keep out.
Jealous?..........yeah jealous.

unless there is a guard.....it keeps no one out......

 

[Harry Dresden]

Oh I'm sure they did. What the hell is a gated community for if not to isolate and numb its population from/to the evil sulphuric land of fornicators and people who dare to not look like you? What else could be the point?

What else could it be?
A gated community is about safety. Nothing more.
For you to say anything else marks you as one of the haters. Or maybe one of the people I'm trying to keep out.
Jealous?..........yeah jealous.

Trust me, if I ever in my life even entertained the idea of a gated "community" you have my permission to just shoot me. I would no more want to numb myself from the outside world than I would want to drive an autonomic transmission. I don't roll that way, isolating myself from reality. And I put the word "community" in quotes because isolating oneself away from the world is the opposite of community. So no, there's absolutely no "jealousy" here. More like "pity".

The question (if it were yours which it isn't) would be "safety" -- from what? And the reason for the original question is "curiosity". So if you think I'm not allowed to ask that question, well we know who the haters are. But apparently we don't know who the quoters are, as this question wasn't directed to you anyway. Butt in to speak for others much?

I'm genuinely curious why anyone in their right mind would want to imprison themselves behind a rigamarole of superficial regulations as already described here, behind a gate. Makes no sense to me. Down the road here there's a sign for such a prison advertising "A gated community with a spectacular view of the mountains". Thing is, (a) the mountains are already all around us, and (b) there are no black people here anyway (which is sad but that's the way it is). No crime, no gangs, no city, no town. So why anyone already in a vast expanse of wooded mountainous bliss would want to hunker behind a gate is beyond my comprehension.

So the question stands.

Pogo there are NON-gated housing tracks that have Home Owners Associations telling them what they can or cant do..........

 

[Pogo]

There is no valid reason for someone to think Gated communities are anything more then people looking for more security.
And I find it hard to believe that the rural properties in your area dont have gates.
Or are you talking about someone with a couple of acres and a home?
Hay theft is at record highs because of the drought. Thats why you have a gate. Cattle theft is common.Thats why you have a gate.
You have an irrational hatred of gates. Not sure why and I really dont care.
It just seems strange. I mean I've never driven by a gate and thought to myself "This guy is an asshole because he has a gate and I cant get in"
Sign,sign everywhere a sign......................

Wow, dude. Read much? I told you three times now I don't have cattle (nor do my neighbors) so there are no cattle to theft. Duh. And I guarantee you, here in the land of day 426 of steady rain, there ain't no drought. Your planet may vary.

As for "gate hate", I can't even respond. I have no emotional relationship with gates. You do. See your doctor.
.
.

i think i did answer your question....bottom line.....not all gated communities are like you say they are....even ones with guards at the gate....

No, I think you didn't -- again. What you did was simple contradiction. That's not an answer.

Since it's dropping into the abyss of the quote labyrinth, the unanswered question was:
What the hell is a gated community for, if not to isolate and numb its population from/to the evil sulphuric land of fornicators and people who dare to not look like you? What else could be the point?

That's not the question "what is it not" -- that's "what is it".

Pogo your original post was......

A 'prison' can be used to keep inmates away from the real world... or to keep the real world away from the inmates.


which you likened to a gated community.....its not that way in most gated Communities....so yes i did answer......

Bravo Harry, you got through the noise

But you're still telling me what it's not. My question was what it is. What is a gated community for? Why does it exist? You must have an opinion, must you not?

 

[Politico]

Yes please join. I want to hear firsthand what the experience of having your money stolen is like.

 

[JoeNormal]

the Citadel : A Community of Liberty

Hundreds sign up to live in the Citadel ¿ an armed, 'defensible' fortress community planned for Idaho | Mail Online

Now that is a gated community. I think we're going to see more of this stuff as time goes on; Especially if liberal thinking as it is now, continues to pollute society.

I asked my wife if she wanted to move there, and she said no; but she did like the idea of me owning a gun.

I can't help but notice their web site is extremely cagey about who is behind this project. There isn't a single name named.

Not a good sign.

For all you know, they are Nazis. Their architectural renderings have that certain je ne sais quoi.

They sure sound like Nazis.

Look here, from their site:

Citadel Definition

A fortress in a commanding position in or near a city.
Any strongly fortified building or place of safety; refuge
A gated and walled community in the style of Rothenburg ob der Tauber, Germany.

They conveniently provide a wiki link in case you miss the giant hint:



The ultimate gated community, Rothenburg was.

This thing is going to be in Idaho. The national playground for white supremacists.

Or they could be con men.

Who is the Leader?

There is no person who can claim the title, "Leader" of the Citadel, nor will there be. The only "Leader" we have is the ideal of Jefferson's Rightful Liberty.

There are, however, motivated individuals who have accepted responsibility for various aspects of the project. This is a consensus effort by a dedicated group of individuals working toward a common goal. These people are not locked into their positions.There will be openings to new volunteers as the project evolves.

Interesting choice of word: Leader.

Idaho, no names, an obsession with things Germanic, a clear reference to an exclusive Nazi town. So...yeah...clearly a bunch of those left-wing Nazis we hear so much about.

Marxists, Socialists, Liberals, and Establishment Republicans may find that living within our Citadel Community is incompatible with their existing ideology and preferred lifestyles.

They glaringly left out Democrats. So they must be nazi Democrats!

Sieg Heil!

They sound like a real fun bunch of people. Small town Utah (or in this case Idaho) on steroids.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Oh I'm sure they did. What the hell is a gated community for if not to isolate and numb its population from/to the evil sulphuric land of fornicators and people who dare to not look like you? What else could be the point?

What else could it be?
A gated community is about safety. Nothing more.
For you to say anything else marks you as one of the haters. Or maybe one of the people I'm trying to keep out.
Jealous?..........yeah jealous.

unless there is a guard.....it keeps no one out......

I used to live in a none gated community and the difference is huge when it comes to keeping out thieves.
A crook will go to easier pickings everytime. It keeps out the people looking for an easy target. No scummy people trying to sell you shit or case your house. Which happened to me and the wife in our first home.
I'm not going to bother looking up figures on crime in a gated vs non gated neighborhood because we both know what we'ed find.
Although it would make you look silly..............

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

There is no valid reason for someone to think Gated communities are anything more then people looking for more security.
And I find it hard to believe that the rural properties in your area dont have gates.
Or are you talking about someone with a couple of acres and a home?
Hay theft is at record highs because of the drought. Thats why you have a gate. Cattle theft is common.Thats why you have a gate.
You have an irrational hatred of gates. Not sure why and I really dont care.
It just seems strange. I mean I've never driven by a gate and thought to myself "This guy is an asshole because he has a gate and I cant get in"
Sign,sign everywhere a sign......................

Wow, dude. Read much? I told you three times now I don't have cattle (nor do my neighbors) so there are no cattle to theft. Duh. And I guarantee you, here in the land of day 426 of steady rain, there ain't no drought. Your planet may vary.

As for "gate hate", I can't even respond. I have no emotional relationship with gates. You do. See your doctor.
.
.

No, I think you didn't -- again. What you did was simple contradiction. That's not an answer.

Since it's dropping into the abyss of the quote labyrinth, the unanswered question was:
What the hell is a gated community for, if not to isolate and numb its population from/to the evil sulphuric land of fornicators and people who dare to not look like you? What else could be the point?

That's not the question "what is it not" -- that's "what is it".

Pogo your original post was......

A 'prison' can be used to keep inmates away from the real world... or to keep the real world away from the inmates.


which you likened to a gated community.....its not that way in most gated Communities....so yes i did answer......

Bravo Harry, you got through the noise

But you're still telling me what it's not. My question was what it is. What is a gated community for? Why does it exist? You must have an opinion, must you not?

And you've been told by someone who lives in one a hundred fuckin times !!!!
SECURITY !!
Look, Maybe you dont give a shit about your families safety but I do. If living in a gated community makes them safer and I can afford it I'm going to do it.
And I promise you crime rates are nowhere near as high in a gated communities.

 

[Koios]

Should I join Idaho's "The Citadel"

Yes; absolutely, since diversity of any kind, including thought, is truly awful.

 

[OKTexas]

Of course! Why not?

After all, the REAL American thing to do when your side loses an election is to withdraw into armed camps and separate yourself from your fellow American's, isn't it?

I mean, after all....fuck democracy and the Will of The People, right?

So if 51% vote to oppress the other 49% you'd go along with it? No matter what it is?

Where would you draw the line?

Not civil rights.....that cannot go up for a vote. So...we cannot put the 2nd up for a vote (unless an entire new amendment were to be voted by 75% of the people/states)

You might want to read Article 5 again, the people don't vote on amendments.

 

[Pogo]

What else could it be?
A gated community is about safety. Nothing more.
For you to say anything else marks you as one of the haters. Or maybe one of the people I'm trying to keep out.
Jealous?..........yeah jealous.

unless there is a guard.....it keeps no one out......

I used to live in a none gated community and the difference is huge when it comes to keeping out thieves.
A crook will go to easier pickings everytime. It keeps out the people looking for an easy target. No scummy people trying to sell you shit or case your house. Which happened to me and the wife in our first home.
I'm not going to bother looking up figures on crime in a gated vs non gated neighborhood because we both know what we'ed find.
Although it would make you look silly..............

Good luck getting an answer out of Harry. I tried that for two days.

But if I may be allowed to butt in as you did, I went ahead and looked it up, because no I don't know what "we'ed" find (if we knew there would be no point asking the question, now would there?)

Here's what I got from the security officer site IFPO:
Do they work?
The major question that is asked of gated communities is "Do they really keep crime rates down?" The answer seems to be yes, but only by very little. The city of Miami reports that "some forms of crime such as car theft are reduced, at least immediately after the streets are closed. However, data indicates that the long-term crime rate is at best only marginally altered" (Blakely, 1995, p. 1).

In gated communities, the trend is that crimes against the person go down and stay down in controlled access developments. This occurs because perpetrators do not want to go to an area that they are unfamiliar with and where it might be hard for them to make an escape. "According to preliminary research, crimes such as burglary drop in the first year or so of gating, but then rise back to the level of the areas outside"(Diamond 4).

Then there was this guy:
From 2007 to 2009, I traveled 27,000 miles, living in predominantly white gated communities across this country to research a book. I threw myself into these communities with gusto — no Howard Johnson or Motel 6 for me. I borrowed or rented residents’ homes. From the red-rock canyons of southern Utah to the Waffle-House-pocked exurbs of north Georgia, I lived in gated communities as a black man, with a youthful style and face, to interview and observe residents.

The perverse, pervasive real-estate speak I heard in these communities champions a bunker mentality. Residents often expressed a fear of crime that was exaggerated beyond the actual criminal threat, as documented by their police department’s statistics.

...Residents’ palpable satisfaction with their communities’ virtue and their evident readiness to trumpet alarm at any given “threat” create a peculiar atmosphere — an unholy alliance of smugness and insecurity. In this us-versus-them mental landscape, them refers to new immigrants, blacks, young people, renters, non-property-owners and people perceived to be poor. -- The Gated Community Mentality

I've never lived in a gated community, although there are times when one of my clients sends me to Florida (strike 1) and puts me in a Disney property, which I consider a prison, and has much in common, in its cookie-cutter aesthetics, hypersecurity and obsession with control of all things. I can't think of anything more squelching of human spirit. Whether that's a true comparison or not, the whole idea of the Ted Kaczynski walled-in, bunkered-down mentality strikes me as stifling of the spirit of democracy, stifling of the spirit of community and just damned elitist, none of which appeals.

This analysis says much the same thing:
Today's cameras, fences, walls and gates do little to create an atmosphere of openness, which is an essential element in a diverse society. When segregation of our living spaces becomes the wallpaper we no longer see, communities become brittle, unable to prevent and shut down the most dangerous behavior.

... Our children deserve to grow up in a culture of responsibility that doesn't stop at the neighborhood gates. As the design of our communities becomes more divided, the "as paranoid as possible" citizens living in fear of those lurking outside of their walls too often overlook the more distressing attitudes within. --Florida's Problematic Gated Communities

So the whole "security" idea looks like a real estate developer angle. In other words, somebody's fearmongering, and somebody else is buying.

Back to you, Harry...

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

unless there is a guard.....it keeps no one out......

I used to live in a none gated community and the difference is huge when it comes to keeping out thieves.
A crook will go to easier pickings everytime. It keeps out the people looking for an easy target. No scummy people trying to sell you shit or case your house. Which happened to me and the wife in our first home.
I'm not going to bother looking up figures on crime in a gated vs non gated neighborhood because we both know what we'ed find.
Although it would make you look silly..............

Good luck getting an answer out of Harry. I tried that for two days.

But if I may be allowed to butt in as you did, I went ahead and looked it up, because no I don't know what "we'ed" find (if we knew there would be no point asking the question, now would there?)

Here's what I got from the security officer site IFPO:
Do they work?
The major question that is asked of gated communities is "Do they really keep crime rates down?" The answer seems to be yes, but only by very little. The city of Miami reports that "some forms of crime such as car theft are reduced, at least immediately after the streets are closed. However, data indicates that the long-term crime rate is at best only marginally altered" (Blakely, 1995, p. 1).

In gated communities, the trend is that crimes against the person go down and stay down in controlled access developments. This occurs because perpetrators do not want to go to an area that they are unfamiliar with and where it might be hard for them to make an escape. "According to preliminary research, crimes such as burglary drop in the first year or so of gating, but then rise back to the level of the areas outside"(Diamond 4).

Then there was this guy:
From 2007 to 2009, I traveled 27,000 miles, living in predominantly white gated communities across this country to research a book. I threw myself into these communities with gusto &#8212; no Howard Johnson or Motel 6 for me. I borrowed or rented residents&#8217; homes. From the red-rock canyons of southern Utah to the Waffle-House-pocked exurbs of north Georgia, I lived in gated communities as a black man, with a youthful style and face, to interview and observe residents.

The perverse, pervasive real-estate speak I heard in these communities champions a bunker mentality. Residents often expressed a fear of crime that was exaggerated beyond the actual criminal threat, as documented by their police department&#8217;s statistics.

...Residents&#8217; palpable satisfaction with their communities&#8217; virtue and their evident readiness to trumpet alarm at any given &#8220;threat&#8221; create a peculiar atmosphere &#8212; an unholy alliance of smugness and insecurity. In this us-versus-them mental landscape, them refers to new immigrants, blacks, young people, renters, non-property-owners and people perceived to be poor. -- The Gated Community Mentality

I've never lived in a gated community, although there are times when one of my clients sends me to Florida (strike 1) and puts me in a Disney property, which I consider a prison, and has much in common, in its cookie-cutter aesthetics, hypersecurity and obsession with control of all things. I can't think of anything more squelching of human spirit. Whether that's a true comparison or not, the whole idea of the Ted Kaczynski walled-in, bunkered-down mentality strikes me as stifling of the spirit of democracy, stifling of the spirit of community and just damned elitist, none of which appeals.

This analysis says much the same thing:
Today's cameras, fences, walls and gates do little to create an atmosphere of openness, which is an essential element in a diverse society. When segregation of our living spaces becomes the wallpaper we no longer see, communities become brittle, unable to prevent and shut down the most dangerous behavior.

... Our children deserve to grow up in a culture of responsibility that doesn't stop at the neighborhood gates. As the design of our communities becomes more divided, the "as paranoid as possible" citizens living in fear of those lurking outside of their walls too often overlook the more distressing attitudes within. --Florida's Problematic Gated Communities

So the whole "security" idea looks like a real estate developer angle. In other words, somebody's fearmongering, and somebody else is buying.

Back to you, Harry...

As a person who has lived in both I can tell you there is a world of difference.
I will give you that gated community is in a much better area then our original home so crime will be lower anyway. But being in a "better part of town" will probably bring out the haters as well.
I'm not some pretentious prick. As a matter of fact the farther out in the boonies the more I like it. As soon as the wife retires in 4 yrs we're out of here and more then likely on a few hundred acres....and yes I'll have gates.
But when you live in the 4th largest city in the US and you have an illegal immigrant problem it behooves you to do what you can about security.
As far as some guy's take on gated vs non? How the hell do I know what his agenda is? The guy sounds like he was trying to find dirt.
All I can go by is my own experience and I'ts been nothing but positive.
Oh...and my value went up 6% during the housing bust.

I just dont get the whole "you must be an asshole because you live in a gated community"thing. It's like the haters have a more arrogant attitude towards people who do live in them. Like you're special because you hate them. An elitist in reverse if you will.
To tell you the truth I cant see why it's even a discussion.....unless it's someone crying foul.

 

[Harry Dresden]

What else could it be?
A gated community is about safety. Nothing more.
For you to say anything else marks you as one of the haters. Or maybe one of the people I'm trying to keep out.
Jealous?..........yeah jealous.

unless there is a guard.....it keeps no one out......

I used to live in a none gated community and the difference is huge when it comes to keeping out thieves.
A crook will go to easier pickings everytime. It keeps out the people looking for an easy target. No scummy people trying to sell you shit or case your house. Which happened to me and the wife in our first home.
I'm not going to bother looking up figures on crime in a gated vs non gated neighborhood because we both know what we'ed find.
Although it would make you look silly..............

what would make me look silly?.....

 

[Harry Dresden]

There is no valid reason for someone to think Gated communities are anything more then people looking for more security.
And I find it hard to believe that the rural properties in your area dont have gates.
Or are you talking about someone with a couple of acres and a home?
Hay theft is at record highs because of the drought. Thats why you have a gate. Cattle theft is common.Thats why you have a gate.
You have an irrational hatred of gates. Not sure why and I really dont care.
It just seems strange. I mean I've never driven by a gate and thought to myself "This guy is an asshole because he has a gate and I cant get in"
Sign,sign everywhere a sign......................

Wow, dude. Read much? I told you three times now I don't have cattle (nor do my neighbors) so there are no cattle to theft. Duh. And I guarantee you, here in the land of day 426 of steady rain, there ain't no drought. Your planet may vary.

As for "gate hate", I can't even respond. I have no emotional relationship with gates. You do. See your doctor.
.
.

No, I think you didn't -- again. What you did was simple contradiction. That's not an answer.

Since it's dropping into the abyss of the quote labyrinth, the unanswered question was:
What the hell is a gated community for, if not to isolate and numb its population from/to the evil sulphuric land of fornicators and people who dare to not look like you? What else could be the point?

That's not the question "what is it not" -- that's "what is it".

Pogo your original post was......

A 'prison' can be used to keep inmates away from the real world... or to keep the real world away from the inmates.


which you likened to a gated community.....its not that way in most gated Communities....so yes i did answer......

Bravo Harry, you got through the noise

But you're still telling me what it's not. My question was what it is. What is a gated community for? Why does it exist? You must have an opinion, must you not?

well its not to keep people out unless there is a guard at the gate.....otherwise someone goes in.....you follow them through....so unless there is a guard there.......i cant see why they have a gate....

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

unless there is a guard.....it keeps no one out......

I used to live in a none gated community and the difference is huge when it comes to keeping out thieves.
A crook will go to easier pickings everytime. It keeps out the people looking for an easy target. No scummy people trying to sell you shit or case your house. Which happened to me and the wife in our first home.
I'm not going to bother looking up figures on crime in a gated vs non gated neighborhood because we both know what we'ed find.
Although it would make you look silly..............

what would make me look silly?.....

For you to say they dont help stop crime. I mean yeah if someone wants in bad enough they'll get in and there's not much you can do about it other then make it harder.
And of course be armed.
The whole idea is to make them find an easier target. And they do that very well.

 

[paperview]

So if 51% vote to oppress the other 49% you'd go along with it? No matter what it is?

Where would you draw the line?

Not civil rights.....that cannot go up for a vote. So...we cannot put the 2nd up for a vote (unless an entire new amendment were to be voted by 75% of the people/states)

You might want to read Article 5 again, the people don't vote on amendments.

Sure they do. Welcome to the Republic.

 

[Pogo]

I used to live in a none gated community and the difference is huge when it comes to keeping out thieves.
A crook will go to easier pickings everytime. It keeps out the people looking for an easy target. No scummy people trying to sell you shit or case your house. Which happened to me and the wife in our first home.
I'm not going to bother looking up figures on crime in a gated vs non gated neighborhood because we both know what we'ed find.
Although it would make you look silly..............

Good luck getting an answer out of Harry. I tried that for two days.

But if I may be allowed to butt in as you did, I went ahead and looked it up, because no I don't know what "we'ed" find (if we knew there would be no point asking the question, now would there?)

Here's what I got from the security officer site IFPO:
Do they work?
The major question that is asked of gated communities is "Do they really keep crime rates down?" The answer seems to be yes, but only by very little. The city of Miami reports that "some forms of crime such as car theft are reduced, at least immediately after the streets are closed. However, data indicates that the long-term crime rate is at best only marginally altered" (Blakely, 1995, p. 1).

In gated communities, the trend is that crimes against the person go down and stay down in controlled access developments. This occurs because perpetrators do not want to go to an area that they are unfamiliar with and where it might be hard for them to make an escape. "According to preliminary research, crimes such as burglary drop in the first year or so of gating, but then rise back to the level of the areas outside"(Diamond 4).

Then there was this guy:
From 2007 to 2009, I traveled 27,000 miles, living in predominantly white gated communities across this country to research a book. I threw myself into these communities with gusto — no Howard Johnson or Motel 6 for me. I borrowed or rented residents’ homes. From the red-rock canyons of southern Utah to the Waffle-House-pocked exurbs of north Georgia, I lived in gated communities as a black man, with a youthful style and face, to interview and observe residents.

The perverse, pervasive real-estate speak I heard in these communities champions a bunker mentality. Residents often expressed a fear of crime that was exaggerated beyond the actual criminal threat, as documented by their police department’s statistics.

...Residents’ palpable satisfaction with their communities’ virtue and their evident readiness to trumpet alarm at any given “threat” create a peculiar atmosphere — an unholy alliance of smugness and insecurity. In this us-versus-them mental landscape, them refers to new immigrants, blacks, young people, renters, non-property-owners and people perceived to be poor. -- The Gated Community Mentality

I've never lived in a gated community, although there are times when one of my clients sends me to Florida (strike 1) and puts me in a Disney property, which I consider a prison, and has much in common, in its cookie-cutter aesthetics, hypersecurity and obsession with control of all things. I can't think of anything more squelching of human spirit. Whether that's a true comparison or not, the whole idea of the Ted Kaczynski walled-in, bunkered-down mentality strikes me as stifling of the spirit of democracy, stifling of the spirit of community and just damned elitist, none of which appeals.

This analysis says much the same thing:
Today's cameras, fences, walls and gates do little to create an atmosphere of openness, which is an essential element in a diverse society. When segregation of our living spaces becomes the wallpaper we no longer see, communities become brittle, unable to prevent and shut down the most dangerous behavior.

... Our children deserve to grow up in a culture of responsibility that doesn't stop at the neighborhood gates. As the design of our communities becomes more divided, the "as paranoid as possible" citizens living in fear of those lurking outside of their walls too often overlook the more distressing attitudes within. --Florida's Problematic Gated Communities

So the whole "security" idea looks like a real estate developer angle. In other words, somebody's fearmongering, and somebody else is buying.

Back to you, Harry...

As a person who has lived in both I can tell you there is a world of difference.
I will give you that gated community is in a much better area then our original home so crime will be lower anyway. But being in a "better part of town" will probably bring out the haters as well.
I'm not some pretentious prick. As a matter of fact the farther out in the boonies the more I like it. As soon as the wife retires in 4 yrs we're out of here and more then likely on a few hundred acres....and yes I'll have gates.
But when you live in the 4th largest city in the US and you have an illegal immigrant problem it behooves you to do what you can about security.
As far as some guy's take on gated vs non? How the hell do I know what his agenda is? The guy sounds like he was trying to find dirt.
All I can go by is my own experience and I'ts been nothing but positive.
Oh...and my value went up 6% during the housing bust.

I just dont get the whole "you must be an asshole because you live in a gated community"thing. It's like the haters have a more arrogant attitude towards people who do live in them. Like you're special because you hate them. An elitist in reverse if you will.
To tell you the truth I cant see why it's even a discussion.....unless it's someone crying foul.

I wonder at this point if we've been talking about the same thing. "Gated community" doesn't mean you have a house in the sticks that has a long driveway with a gate at the end. By "gated community" I was talking about an intentional, prefab-constructed enclave of cookie-cutter houses with a security gate keeping the world at bay, with or without a guard, and strict rules about who gets in and how they live -- as was described earlier in the thread. The keyword in the phrase is "community", even though it's used artificially; a group of residents behind one common gate.

If you're talking about simply having a gate at the driveway of your own house, that's not the same thing at all.

I think Harry knows what we meant.

 

[Harry Dresden]

I used to live in a none gated community and the difference is huge when it comes to keeping out thieves.
A crook will go to easier pickings everytime. It keeps out the people looking for an easy target. No scummy people trying to sell you shit or case your house. Which happened to me and the wife in our first home.
I'm not going to bother looking up figures on crime in a gated vs non gated neighborhood because we both know what we'ed find.
Although it would make you look silly..............

what would make me look silly?.....

For you to say they dont help stop crime. I mean yeah if someone wants in bad enough they'll get in and there's not much you can do about it other then make it harder.
And of course be armed.
The whole idea is to make them find an easier target. And they do that very well.

i delivered mail here in the Anaheim Hills.....to 5 separate Gated Communities.....you cant be a low end earner to live here......only one had a guard.....you go through that gate only if he lets you....the other 4.....if you don't live there and you want in, you wait for a car to go through and follow them in....where is the security?.....why have gates?.....the only thing that saves these people is that its a pretty low crime area as it is.......but if it wasnt....anyone could get in just by following a car in.....

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Good luck getting an answer out of Harry. I tried that for two days.

But if I may be allowed to butt in as you did, I went ahead and looked it up, because no I don't know what "we'ed" find (if we knew there would be no point asking the question, now would there?)

Here's what I got from the security officer site IFPO:
Do they work?
The major question that is asked of gated communities is "Do they really keep crime rates down?" The answer seems to be yes, but only by very little. The city of Miami reports that "some forms of crime such as car theft are reduced, at least immediately after the streets are closed. However, data indicates that the long-term crime rate is at best only marginally altered" (Blakely, 1995, p. 1).

In gated communities, the trend is that crimes against the person go down and stay down in controlled access developments. This occurs because perpetrators do not want to go to an area that they are unfamiliar with and where it might be hard for them to make an escape. "According to preliminary research, crimes such as burglary drop in the first year or so of gating, but then rise back to the level of the areas outside"(Diamond 4).

Then there was this guy:
From 2007 to 2009, I traveled 27,000 miles, living in predominantly white gated communities across this country to research a book. I threw myself into these communities with gusto — no Howard Johnson or Motel 6 for me. I borrowed or rented residents’ homes. From the red-rock canyons of southern Utah to the Waffle-House-pocked exurbs of north Georgia, I lived in gated communities as a black man, with a youthful style and face, to interview and observe residents.

The perverse, pervasive real-estate speak I heard in these communities champions a bunker mentality. Residents often expressed a fear of crime that was exaggerated beyond the actual criminal threat, as documented by their police department’s statistics.

...Residents’ palpable satisfaction with their communities’ virtue and their evident readiness to trumpet alarm at any given “threat” create a peculiar atmosphere — an unholy alliance of smugness and insecurity. In this us-versus-them mental landscape, them refers to new immigrants, blacks, young people, renters, non-property-owners and people perceived to be poor. -- The Gated Community Mentality

I've never lived in a gated community, although there are times when one of my clients sends me to Florida (strike 1) and puts me in a Disney property, which I consider a prison, and has much in common, in its cookie-cutter aesthetics, hypersecurity and obsession with control of all things. I can't think of anything more squelching of human spirit. Whether that's a true comparison or not, the whole idea of the Ted Kaczynski walled-in, bunkered-down mentality strikes me as stifling of the spirit of democracy, stifling of the spirit of community and just damned elitist, none of which appeals.

This analysis says much the same thing:
Today's cameras, fences, walls and gates do little to create an atmosphere of openness, which is an essential element in a diverse society. When segregation of our living spaces becomes the wallpaper we no longer see, communities become brittle, unable to prevent and shut down the most dangerous behavior.

... Our children deserve to grow up in a culture of responsibility that doesn't stop at the neighborhood gates. As the design of our communities becomes more divided, the "as paranoid as possible" citizens living in fear of those lurking outside of their walls too often overlook the more distressing attitudes within. --Florida's Problematic Gated Communities

So the whole "security" idea looks like a real estate developer angle. In other words, somebody's fearmongering, and somebody else is buying.

Back to you, Harry...

As a person who has lived in both I can tell you there is a world of difference.
I will give you that gated community is in a much better area then our original home so crime will be lower anyway. But being in a "better part of town" will probably bring out the haters as well.
I'm not some pretentious prick. As a matter of fact the farther out in the boonies the more I like it. As soon as the wife retires in 4 yrs we're out of here and more then likely on a few hundred acres....and yes I'll have gates.
But when you live in the 4th largest city in the US and you have an illegal immigrant problem it behooves you to do what you can about security.
As far as some guy's take on gated vs non? How the hell do I know what his agenda is? The guy sounds like he was trying to find dirt.
All I can go by is my own experience and I'ts been nothing but positive.
Oh...and my value went up 6% during the housing bust.

I just dont get the whole "you must be an asshole because you live in a gated community"thing. It's like the haters have a more arrogant attitude towards people who do live in them. Like you're special because you hate them. An elitist in reverse if you will.
To tell you the truth I cant see why it's even a discussion.....unless it's someone crying foul.

I wonder at this point if we've been talking about the same thing. "Gated community" doesn't mean you have a house in the sticks that has a long driveway with a gate at the end. By "gated community" I was talking about an intentional, prefab-constructed enclave of cookie-cutter houses with a security gate keeping the world at bay, with or without a guard, and strict rules about who gets in and how they live -- as was described earlier in the thread. The keyword in the phrase is "community", even though it's used artificially; a group of residents behind one common gate.

If you're talking about simply having a gate at the driveway of your own house, that's not the same thing at all.

I think Harry knows what we meant.

I have a 5000 sq.ft. custom home. And there is not another like it in the neighborhood.
In fact all the homes are different. Not sure if that fits your description or not.
The two river properties I had were both gated. I would think that would be even more pretentious then living in a gated neighborhood since access is even more restrictive.
Personally I dont care if someone wants gated access or not,thats their choice and I really dont see why it would bother anyone either way.
But I think it's foolish not to if you can.

 

[Pogo]

As a person who has lived in both I can tell you there is a world of difference.
I will give you that gated community is in a much better area then our original home so crime will be lower anyway. But being in a "better part of town" will probably bring out the haters as well.
I'm not some pretentious prick. As a matter of fact the farther out in the boonies the more I like it. As soon as the wife retires in 4 yrs we're out of here and more then likely on a few hundred acres....and yes I'll have gates.
But when you live in the 4th largest city in the US and you have an illegal immigrant problem it behooves you to do what you can about security.
As far as some guy's take on gated vs non? How the hell do I know what his agenda is? The guy sounds like he was trying to find dirt.
All I can go by is my own experience and I'ts been nothing but positive.
Oh...and my value went up 6% during the housing bust.

I just dont get the whole "you must be an asshole because you live in a gated community"thing. It's like the haters have a more arrogant attitude towards people who do live in them. Like you're special because you hate them. An elitist in reverse if you will.
To tell you the truth I cant see why it's even a discussion.....unless it's someone crying foul.

I wonder at this point if we've been talking about the same thing. "Gated community" doesn't mean you have a house in the sticks that has a long driveway with a gate at the end. By "gated community" I was talking about an intentional, prefab-constructed enclave of cookie-cutter houses with a security gate keeping the world at bay, with or without a guard, and strict rules about who gets in and how they live -- as was described earlier in the thread. The keyword in the phrase is "community", even though it's used artificially; a group of residents behind one common gate.

If you're talking about simply having a gate at the driveway of your own house, that's not the same thing at all.

I think Harry knows what we meant.

I have a 5000 sq.ft. custom home. And there is not another like it in the neighborhood.
In fact all the homes are different. Not sure if that fits your description or not.
The two river properties I had were both gated. I would think that would be even more pretentious then living in a gated neighborhood since access is even more restrictive.
Personally I dont care if someone wants gated access or not,thats their choice and I really dont see why it would bother anyone either way.
But I think it's foolish not to if you can.

Then apparently we've been talking about completely different things. I assumed you knew what "gated community" meant. But then again the question wasn't put to you, so that's what you get -- smh...

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

what would make me look silly?.....

For you to say they dont help stop crime. I mean yeah if someone wants in bad enough they'll get in and there's not much you can do about it other then make it harder.
And of course be armed.
The whole idea is to make them find an easier target. And they do that very well.

i delivered mail here in the Anaheim Hills.....to 5 separate Gated Communities.....you cant be a low end earner to live here......only one had a guard.....you go through that gate only if he lets you....the other 4.....if you don't live there and you want in, you wait for a car to go through and follow them in....where is the security?.....why have gates?.....the only thing that saves these people is that its a pretty low crime area as it is.......but if it wasnt....anyone could get in just by following a car in.....

Yes they can follow someone in. The problem for the crook lies with home alarms and cameras and one way in and one way out. They know if they set off the alarm(which they will) they have to leave immediately or be trapped.
Why would you even try it? You know you're going to get busted. I've lived here for eight years and we've had zero break ins in the neighborhood. Not sure how you can argue with that record.