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Another famous far LW tactic: the bald faced lie.There is that false equivalency the right has become so famous for. You think all ideas are equal. No. Some are just shit, and expecting anyone to accept a shit idea just because there is another idea from a different source is stupid.
While many Americans don't like the far Right, you are continually giving reasons why they don't like the far Left.
You are trying to deny false equivalency? Get real. It's the basis for right wing nuts that think science classes should teach the world is 6000 years old and was made in 6 days as equal to all the geological and evolutionary information we have.
Dear BULLDOG I haven't found a lot of groups still teaching that.
Even the Jehovah's Witnesses teach that the "days" in the Bible represent PERIODS or "eras".
They are some of the most insistent that there needs to be one unified interpretation.
And they do not interpret the "days" to be LITERAL.
The 6,000 timeline represents 6 AGES, and is focused on the Hebrew/Mosaic LINEAGE.
The Bible mentions there are other "daughters of the earth" left out of this lineage.
So of course there are other tribes and history.
Who do you think the sons of Adam and Eve took as wives?
There were matriarchal and egalitarian/agricultural cultures, worshipping earth and nature,
before the Scriptural laws and lineage that the Bible covers.
If you are going to take one literal thing "out of context" and try to discredit whole groups,
would you agree to people taking Slavery out of historic content and discrediting
all of American history and govt because this practice used to be accepted as an institution?
Some people do that!
Are you going to throw out all science because people USED to teach the sun revolved around the earth or that there was a "brontosaurus" (that turned out to be the result of mixing up two other species).
What is wrong with people's perception EVOLVING and growing over generations to
broader understanding? Do you think that's going to happen instantly?
And there isn't a process that involves sharing knowledge and understanding
we have at one point in history before growing past that and adopting and adapting from there?
Would you have thrown out what the Greeks gave us in math
just because they didn't have a symbol for 0 and their system wasn't perfect and complete?
????
BULLDOG the day you can invent any system of philosophy, social science, religious symbols,
civil laws or govt that
"COME OUT PERFECT THE FIRST TIME THEY ARE WRITTEN"
Maybe I'll believe you have the right to complain and discredit other groups that have started such systems.
The American govt system was set up to handle change.
What is wrong with revising and amending as society grows to handle more diverse populations and process?
Dear BULLDOGYou're trying to split hairs now. Understanding that a god might be possible, doesn't make you a theist. The universe is so big till It's possible that talking unicorns live on a rainbow colored world somewhere, but there is no reason to believe they really exist. It's kinda the same thing.Keyword being "believe".Some Atheists believe there is no god or gods. Some believe there might be a possibility , but there is no reason to believe there is. After all, there is no way to prove either way. Lack of belief in any god is all it takes.
Yes, Churches that Oppose Gay Marriage Should Still Get Tax Breaks
The issue with HGTV hosts Chris and Joanna Gaines brought up
objections to their church taking a stance opposing gay marriage as against their beliefs.
Why is it wrong for Atheists and secular humanists
to oppose and reject Christianity and Christian beliefs and practices.
But Christians can't oppose LGBT beliefs in gay marriage practices. What?
I found the above link with arguments that churches opposed to gay marriage
shouldn't get the same tax breaks as other religious organizations.
(NOTE: Some people believe that NO religious organizations should have special status. But treat them all as other nonprofit or as business corporations depending on how they operate.)
What do you think?
Of the tax issue for churches: Yes, No, Other?
Of the belief for or against gay marriage, and why should one belief be endorsed by govt while
punishing the other? Why aren't beliefs
* for or against Christianity treated equally as people's free choice
* for or against homosexuality and gay marriage treated equally as people's free choice
If the govt isn't going to punish Atheists for harassing Christians and demanding to
remove references to Christian practices and teachings from public schools, institutions and policies.
Why should govt start targeting and punishing Christians who don't agree with
references to faith-based beliefs in homosexual, transgender or other LGBT practices and teachings that go against their Christian beliefs?
????
Is it REALLY that hard to treat all such beliefs equally and NEUTRALLY through govt?
taking NEITHER side but leaving it to personal choice?
is that too much to ask to be NEUTRAL, and equally inclusive of both sides' beliefs? Really?
Another famous far LW tactic: the bald faced lie.There is that false equivalency the right has become so famous for. You think all ideas are equal. No. Some are just shit, and expecting anyone to accept a shit idea just because there is another idea from a different source is stupid.
While many Americans don't like the far Right, you are continually giving reasons why they don't like the far Left.
You are trying to deny false equivalency? Get real. It's the basis for right wing nuts that think science classes should teach the world is 6000 years old and was made in 6 days as equal to all the geological and evolutionary information we have.
Dear BULLDOG I haven't found a lot of groups still teaching that.
Even the Jehovah's Witnesses teach that the "days" in the Bible represent PERIODS or "eras".
They are some of the most insistent that there needs to be one unified interpretation.
And they do not interpret the "days" to be LITERAL.
The 6,000 timeline represents 6 AGES, and is focused on the Hebrew/Mosaic LINEAGE.
The Bible mentions there are other "daughters of the earth" left out of this lineage.
So of course there are other tribes and history.
Who do you think the sons of Adam and Eve took as wives?
There were matriarchal and egalitarian/agricultural cultures, worshipping earth and nature,
before the Scriptural laws and lineage that the Bible covers.
If you are going to take one literal thing "out of context" and try to discredit whole groups,
would you agree to people taking Slavery out of historic content and discrediting
all of American history and govt because this practice used to be accepted as an institution?
Some people do that!
Are you going to throw out all science because people USED to teach the sun revolved around the earth or that there was a "brontosaurus" (that turned out to be the result of mixing up two other species).
What is wrong with people's perception EVOLVING and growing over generations to
broader understanding? Do you think that's going to happen instantly?
And there isn't a process that involves sharing knowledge and understanding
we have at one point in history before growing past that and adopting and adapting from there?
Would you have thrown out what the Greeks gave us in math
just because they didn't have a symbol for 0 and their system wasn't perfect and complete?
????
BULLDOG the day you can invent any system of philosophy, social science, religious symbols,
civil laws or govt that
"COME OUT PERFECT THE FIRST TIME THEY ARE WRITTEN"
Maybe I'll believe you have the right to complain and discredit other groups that have started such systems.
The American govt system was set up to handle change.
What is wrong with revising and amending as society grows to handle more diverse populations and process?
Creationism is not equal to other theories of how life began,and it shouldn't be taught in our schools. I don't have to develop my own system of philosophy, social science, religious symbols,
civil laws or govt that "COME OUT PERFECT THE FIRST TIME THEY ARE WRITTEN" to be able to say that., and it's funny that you would say I should.
No because I'm not a business guy and have never run a 501c3....although it's crossed my mind.Thanks DragonladyI don't understand why any church gets a tax break
It's supposed to be because of their charity work. But some of these mega churches do little in the way of charity and pay large salaries to their staff.
The rule for nonprofits has been that only 5% has to go toward the services and up to 95% can go to admin or other expenses of the operations. The rest has been left to consumer choice to research and fund the more effective charities and not support the bad ones .
Dear Billy_Kinetta and Divine.Wind
Are you saying that the charitable resources are not taxed, but the other noncharitable revenue is taxed? And the SAME groups can do both?
Do such groups need to file Separate 501c3 and 501c4 to keep their political outreach separate from their charitable , and have separate branches under separately filed groups of different status for each purpose they serve? Would that help?
No Cellblock2429 but thanks for asking. I believe if govt stayed with neutral financial and legal contracts only, there is no need for public policy on whether people believe in one marriage ritual or another. The govt should not get involved in whether one church believes in full water or sprinkling baptism or no baptism at all, and same with communion or prayer rituals. These are individual private practices, which are not to be regulated or required by govt.Yes, Churches that Oppose Gay Marriage Should Still Get Tax Breaks
The issue with HGTV hosts Chris and Joanna Gaines brought up
objections to their church taking a stance opposing gay marriage as against their beliefs.
Why is it wrong for Atheists and secular humanists
to oppose and reject Christianity and Christian beliefs and practices.
But Christians can't oppose LGBT beliefs in gay marriage practices. What?
I found the above link with arguments that churches opposed to gay marriage
shouldn't get the same tax breaks as other religious organizations.
(NOTE: Some people believe that NO religious organizations should have special status. But treat them all as other nonprofit or as business corporations depending on how they operate.)
What do you think?
Of the tax issue for churches: Yes, No, Other?
Of the belief for or against gay marriage, and why should one belief be endorsed by govt while
punishing the other? Why aren't beliefs
* for or against Christianity treated equally as people's free choice
* for or against homosexuality and gay marriage treated equally as people's free choice
If the govt isn't going to punish Atheists for harassing Christians and demanding to
remove references to Christian practices and teachings from public schools, institutions and policies.
Why should govt start targeting and punishing Christians who don't agree with
references to faith-based beliefs in homosexual, transgender or other LGBT practices and teachings that go against their Christian beliefs?
????
Is it REALLY that hard to treat all such beliefs equally and NEUTRALLY through govt?
taking NEITHER side but leaving it to personal choice?
is that too much to ask to be NEUTRAL, and equally inclusive of both sides' beliefs? Really?
/--- will you deny Mosques tax breaks for denying gay marriages?
I don't understand why any church gets a tax break
I don't understand why any church gets a tax break
A church may refuse to perform same sex ceremonies but may not condemn homosexuality.
It's not fact nor science. It's a belief about something unprovable.It's a religious belief so, as long as they comply with the requirements, they're good to go.When did being an atheist become grounds for tax exemption?
Tax Information for Churches and Religious Organizations
Atheism isn't a religious belief, even if you want it to be.
It's lack of belief.
When did being an atheist become grounds for tax exemption?
That would do it!When did being an atheist become grounds for tax exemption?
I'm not certain but probably when the SCOTUS determined that atheism is a religion.
Some believe there might be a possibility
You are trying to deny false equivalency? Get real. It's the basis for right wing nuts that think science classes should teach the world is 6000 years old and was made in 6 days as equal to all the geological and evolutionary information we have.
Just as those on the far Right wanted to impose voter ID as a means to disenfranchise LW voters,
Another famous far LW tactic: the bald faced lie.There is that false equivalency the right has become so famous for. You think all ideas are equal. No. Some are just shit, and expecting anyone to accept a shit idea just because there is another idea from a different source is stupid.
While many Americans don't like the far Right, you are continually giving reasons why they don't like the far Left.
You are trying to deny false equivalency? Get real. It's the basis for right wing nuts that think science classes should teach the world is 6000 years old and was made in 6 days as equal to all the geological and evolutionary information we have.
Dear BULLDOG I haven't found a lot of groups still teaching that.
Even the Jehovah's Witnesses teach that the "days" in the Bible represent PERIODS or "eras".
They are some of the most insistent that there needs to be one unified interpretation.
And they do not interpret the "days" to be LITERAL.
The 6,000 timeline represents 6 AGES, and is focused on the Hebrew/Mosaic LINEAGE.
The Bible mentions there are other "daughters of the earth" left out of this lineage.
So of course there are other tribes and history.
Who do you think the sons of Adam and Eve took as wives?
There were matriarchal and egalitarian/agricultural cultures, worshipping earth and nature,
before the Scriptural laws and lineage that the Bible covers.
If you are going to take one literal thing "out of context" and try to discredit whole groups,
would you agree to people taking Slavery out of historic content and discrediting
all of American history and govt because this practice used to be accepted as an institution?
Some people do that!
Are you going to throw out all science because people USED to teach the sun revolved around the earth or that there was a "brontosaurus" (that turned out to be the result of mixing up two other species).
What is wrong with people's perception EVOLVING and growing over generations to
broader understanding? Do you think that's going to happen instantly?
And there isn't a process that involves sharing knowledge and understanding
we have at one point in history before growing past that and adopting and adapting from there?
Would you have thrown out what the Greeks gave us in math
just because they didn't have a symbol for 0 and their system wasn't perfect and complete?
????
BULLDOG the day you can invent any system of philosophy, social science, religious symbols,
civil laws or govt that
"COME OUT PERFECT THE FIRST TIME THEY ARE WRITTEN"
Maybe I'll believe you have the right to complain and discredit other groups that have started such systems.
The American govt system was set up to handle change.
What is wrong with revising and amending as society grows to handle more diverse populations and process?
Creationism is not equal to other theories of how life began,and it shouldn't be taught in our schools. I don't have to develop my own system of philosophy, social science, religious symbols,
civil laws or govt that "COME OUT PERFECT THE FIRST TIME THEY ARE WRITTEN" to be able to say that., and it's funny that you would say I should.
HI BULLDOG
No that's not what I mean at all. But this is getting us closer, this is helping.
Thanks so much for your transparent replies that tell me where we are talking past each other.
How about we try it this way:
1. if creation beliefs are unproven faith based and don't belong in public schools
2. then shouldn't global warming beliefs, and LGBT beliefs, which are equally
unproven and faith based as beliefs AGAINST homosexuality or gay marriage
ALSO BE TREATED EQUALLY as contested faith-based beliefs or creeds that not all people agree to in public policy?
so you see BULLDOG
there is no need to fault or demonize one belief or another.
But treat them the same, and if someone objects to a belief they don't share,
don't criticize or attack that person for wanting to remove it from public institutions.
is that better?
Minus any judgment calls on whose beliefs are this way or that way?
either we agree on beliefs or we don't, no judgment necessary.
If we agree to include something faith based in public laws or institutions,
then we can allow for that. But if we disagree, we keep those conflicts in private and don't drag govt jurisdiction in to the issue to decide.
We resolve conflicts as much as possible, and don't punish or discriminate against
EITHER side for having conflicting beliefs which is neither person's fault.
If we can't agree on beliefs, then we separate (just like Protestants and Catholics
have separate programs, or Hindus and Muslims practice their policies separately without issue)
Wouldn't that be the more neutral way to manage faith based beliefs
in public schools, policies and institutions? Treating beliefs the same with no personal judgment or discrimination against the person?
Creationism is not equal to other theories of how life began,and it shouldn't be taught in our schools.
Requiring photo ID but not proposing a means nor allotted timing for it to go into effect meaning it hits the poor and elderly the hardest.Just as those on the far Right wanted to impose voter ID as a means to disenfranchise LW voters,
How?
