Serena slam #2, and you're racist if you say it's because the field is weak.

[Asclepias]

Her hair beads created an unfair advantage?

Back when Serena and Venus used to wear hair beads, there were continual complaints about the fact that the beads caused an inordinate amount of noise during points. Both sisters were actually given a surprising degree of latitude for quite a long time. In a game where it is expected that points be played without any noise, other than those sounds that naturally arise from the act of playing, the hair bead issue eventually became a hot button issue for a brief time, because they were simply permitted to have these beads that created extra noise. If their opponents had, for example, been wearing sneakers that had little speakers in them that loudly played recorded sounds with every step, they would have been penalized. However, the Williams sisters enjoyed quite a stretch where they were allowed to do something their opponents were not allowed to do. Thus, there was an unfair advantage.

That was hella stupid. Her hair beads?

 

[SwimExpert]

That was hella stupid. Her hair beads?

Yes, and I already explained it, so why you're so baffled at this point is beyond me. The merits of the rules are an entirely different discussion (I make not claims either way as to whether the hindrance rules themselves are adequate or over zealous). The pertinent fact here is that Venus and Serena were given a greater deal of latitude than was typical. That is why they had an unfair advantage.

I think you fail to understand the deeper point, which I suspect is probably because you're not much of a fan of the game. The question about her hair beads was closely intertwined with the question of equal treatment. The sisters alleged at the time that the complaints about their hair beads leading to violations of the hindrance rules were fundamentally racist. I mention them here to assert that the observed rule violations were objectively demonstrable, without regard to any racism or racially based prejudice. That, in fact, the only means by which race entered the picture is that the fear of being labeled "racist" [temporarily] halted officials from calling rule violations regarding their hair beads.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Many sports people turn off their game. A great sports person is someone who keeps going and going and wins and wins. Serena has done this.

Making this isn't a racist issue is just bizarre.

 

[frigidweirdo]

That was hella stupid. Her hair beads?

Yes, and I already explained it, so why you're so baffled at this point is beyond me. The merits of the rules are an entirely different discussion (I make not claims either way as to whether the hindrance rules themselves are adequate or over zealous). The pertinent fact here is that Venus and Serena were given a greater deal of latitude than was typical. That is why they had an unfair advantage.

I think you fail to understand the deeper point, which I suspect is probably because you're not much of a fan of the game. The question about her hair beads was closely intertwined with the question of equal treatment. The sisters alleged at the time that the complaints about their hair beads leading to violations of the hindrance rules were fundamentally racist. I mention them here to assert that the observed rule violations were objectively demonstrable, without regard to any racism or racially based prejudice. That, in fact, the only means by which race entered the picture is that the fear of being labeled "racist" [temporarily] halted officials from calling rule violations regarding their hair beads.

The deeper point appears to be "blacks should know their place and it's not winning stuff, especially in a typically white dominated sport", right?

 

[Asclepias]

That was hella stupid. Her hair beads?

Yes, and I already explained it, so why you're so baffled at this point is beyond me. The merits of the rules are an entirely different discussion (I make not claims either way as to whether the hindrance rules themselves are adequate or over zealous). The pertinent fact here is that Venus and Serena were given a greater deal of latitude than was typical. That is why they had an unfair advantage.

I think you fail to understand the deeper point, which I suspect is probably because you're not much of a fan of the game. The question about her hair beads was closely intertwined with the question of equal treatment. The sisters alleged at the time that the complaints about their hair beads leading to violations of the hindrance rules were fundamentally racist. I mention them here to assert that the observed rule violations were objectively demonstrable, without regard to any racism or racially based prejudice. That, in fact, the only means by which race entered the picture is that the fear of being labeled "racist" [temporarily] halted officials from calling rule violations regarding their hair beads.

Not only am I a fan of the game, it was my first sport. They were not given any latitude. Matter of fact she boycotted Indian Wells for years until just recently because of racism so its actually the opposite. There was no rule violation. You sound like an idiot. There is no rule that says you cant play with beads in your hair.

 

[SwimExpert]

Not only am I a fan of the game, it was my first sport. They were not given any latitude.

These two sentences cannot exist together in the same universe. Did you not watch the game back then?

Matter of fact she boycotted Indian Wells for years until just recently because of racism so its actually the opposite.

She boycotted Indian Wells because vulgar, racist things were being said about her and her family, and the tournament did little to nothing to address it. That has nothing to do with her hair beads, and why you are trying to draw a nexus between them is beyond me.

There was no rule violation. You sound like an idiot. There is no rule that says you cant play with beads in your hair.

For someone who claims to be an avid fan and former player of the game, you sound like an idiot. I never said there was a rule against wearing hair beads. Take your straw man argument somewhere else. There is a hindrance rule. Davenport lost her cap once, and she was called for it. How many times did Serena and Venus lose hair beads on court before they were ever called for it?

 

[SwimExpert]

Many sports people turn off their game. A great sports person is someone who keeps going and going and wins and wins. Serena has done this.

Making this isn't a racist issue is just bizarre.

Why? Why does any criticism, or any retrospection that simply doesn't end in an "All hale Serena" have to be racist? If two people debate whether Steffi Graf is the best ever, with one person saying yes and the other saying no, does the person saying "no" have to be doing so because they are racist against white people?

If someone doubts Roger Federer as the greatest male player of all time, is that because they are being racist?

 

[SwimExpert]

The deeper point appears to be "blacks should know their place and it's not winning stuff, especially in a typically white dominated sport", right?

No. Not even close. In fact, that was such a stupid thing for you to say, I may have to put you on ignore. My doctor has expressly limited my intake of stupid, and your post has me nearly maxed out for the week.

 

[rdean]

Serena Williams accomplishes Serena Slam (four consecutive, non calendar year Grand Slam championships) number two. She now prepares for the final big tournament of the year, the US Open in New York, where she will have the chance to complete the first calendar year Grand Slam since Steffi Graf did it, as well as to tie Graf's 22 all time leading total Grand Slam singles titles.

Some say Williams resurgent success in recent years has been due to a weak field of women's tennis players. Graf won her major titles against some of history's best, which was continually true throughout her career. Others say that arguing such a point makes you racist. Williams herself has been at the forefront of social equality issues in the sport for most of her career. She has played an instrumental role in equalizing the prize money between men's and women's titles. She, along with her sister, also engaged in a long standing boycott of Indian Wells, after her family experienced racially based harassment at the tournament early in their professional careers.

I think it is far too PC to claim any criticism, or reflection not concluding that Serena is the best player ever, is racist. Yes, she and Venus both entered onto the scene and had an attitude somewhat akin to spoiled brats. Yes, her hair beads created an unfair advantage. Yes, she was arrogant. Yes, her early years success was largely attributable to a one dimensional style that relied on simple raw power, particularly in the serve. Yes her latter years have benefited from a derth of truly great women's players at the top of the pro tour. Yes, Martina Hingis and Justine Henin were easily superior tennis players whose lives led into other directions.

But saying that does not mean that one rejects her praiseworthiness. Yes, Serena and her sister changed the game. Yes, Serena (much more than her sister) grew and matured into a complete and well rounded tennis player. Yes, Serena has faced some of the all time greats and had success against them. Yes, her longevity and high level of play at this point in her life is very laudable. Yes, she is one of the greats.

The danger of political correctness is that it inserts politics into every fold of life, where it really has no place. It inserts race relations into sports commentary, etc. It makes it so that everything becomes a manifestation of an agenda that is otherwise unrelated. If we cannot engage in sports commentary on Serena Williams' run for sports history without first aligning our commentary to race relations, then we no longer have a society that values open discourse or rational thinking.

You don't know anything. First of all, Monica Seles had Graf's number beating her in three Grand Slam finals. Then a crazed fan ran on court and STABBED Monica Seles in the back with a knife nearly costing her her life. Seles didn't play for a couple of years and was never the same after the stabbing. How many slams would have gone to Seles?
In Serena's first "Serena Slam", it was her sister she played in all four finals. How many more slams would Venus had won if she hadn't developed Shogun's Syndrome Disease? How can you pick the greatest under those circumstances?
Hingis won 5 grand slams. Her problem was the she was slight and not all that strong. She actually plays very similar to Agnieszka Radwanska, both strategic players but not all that strong.
When Davenport and the Williams came along and Capriati came back, that was it. She just couldn't compete. And even Graf saw the writing on the wall. Davenport beat Graf at Wimbledon in straight sets. Since those days, it's been called "big babe tennis" for a reason.
If Justine Henin was so superior why did she have to cheat? I think that's what ended Justine's career. When she cheated against Serena Williams. She was always being asked about that cheat. Then when she was playing Almaree Meresmo in the final of the Austrailian Open and realized she wasn't going to win, she just quits and walks off the court after saying "I don't feel well". I've seen players barf on court and pay through injuries. But the Serena Cheat at the French open was the worst. It turned the crowd against Serena and I think that because of that cheat, it's one of the reasons the French love Serena now.



Serena was winning the match. She started to serve and Justine put her hand up. Serena was already going through the motion so she just swatted the ball off to the side and the ref called it out. Serena said Justine put her hand up, it wasn't a serve. The ref asked Justine if she put her hand up and she said no. The entire crowd was looking at Serena and thought she was the one lying and booed her mercilessly throughout the rest of the match. That eventually cost Serena the match and there were reports she had to be restrained from Justine in the locker room. Other camera's caught the hand up and Justine was forever asked about that in interview after interview.

But years ago, she was supposed to play Venus in the semi final of Indian Wells and Venus withdrew with an injury and when she played Kim Clisters in the final the crowd booed her thinking their father "fixed" the matches between them. He even complained of racial taunts in the audience. Venus has never been back and Serena went back for the first time in 14 years. She said it was time to put it behind her.

When these players withdraw, they don't just leave or they get a heavy fine. They have to be checked by an ATP or a WTA doctor.I've been watching tennis since I was 15 years old.

Tennis, Hockey and Basketball. The three greatest sports in the world.

 

[rdean]

Serena is beating the best women in the world at this time. To say that her success is due to a weak field is not racist in an of itself. However, it seems pretty stupid to me.

Really? So, who are the competitors, in your opinion, in the current game who compare the the level of competition faced by Navratilova, Graf, Evert, Hingis, Henin, or Davenport?

Steffi Graf and Chris Evert spent their careers playing against some of the best players in all of history. They achieved their greatness, their records, their legacies by beating other players with their own legacies. That kind of player does not appear right now in the pro tour. During the early and mid years of her career Serena was on a stage with a troupe of truly phenomenal players. Hingis, Davenport, Clijsters, and Henin were all exceptional players against whom Serena was constantly competing. Those women are no longer in the game. In the latter years of Serena's career her toughest competition has been Sharapova, Wozniak, Jankovic, Radwanska, and Azarenka. And three of the five have never won a Grand Slam in their lives.

Martina Hingis climbed her way to dominance at the top against none other than the Queen Steffi Graf herself. Serena has reached this dominant point in her career against players who are not close to that level.

Wrong. Seles had Graf's number until she was stabbed.
When Hingis played Graf at the French Open, how long had Graf been out with injuries? Then Graf lost to Davenport at Wimbledon in straight sets and that was Graf's best surface and she wasn't even 30. She retired because she saw the writing on the wall. It was big babe tennis after that.

They used to call woman's tennis "moon ball" tennis because of so many moon balls. It was Martina Navratilova that changed the game for both women and men. She was the first with an "entourage". John McEnroe was joked about Navratilova that his diet was "Haagen Dazs". She brought athleticism to the game. She won six Slams in a row twice. And she made Chris Evert change. Evert said she either get into shape like Navratilova or retire. She decided to get into shape and they both retired with 18 Grand Slams each. From 1982 until 1986 except for one US Open, every grand slam was one by Navratilova or Evert.
The 5 slams Hingis won, Chris and Martina and Graf and Seles didn't play. Chris and Martina retired, Graf was out injured and Seles was recovering from being stabbed. Davenport and Serena were fat. Venus was inconsistent and Capriati was fighting drugs.

 

[rdean]

The field IS weak. Weak compared to HER!

Besides, who ELSE can wear Denim and STILL dominate on the court?

View attachment 44380

She looks like such a warrior.

 

[Abishai100]

Gender Glue Gun

Remember how Russian gymnast Nadia Comaneci put female sports on the international map in a way that no other female athlete (in any sport) accomplished before her or since (until Serena Williams)?

You can argue about Mia Hamm, but women's soccer just hasn't reached that level of fanfare yet.

Serena is an awesome performer, but it was really how she came out of her prodigy older sister Venus's shadow in Wimbledon that established her as a potent female icon in the world of sports.

If Serena Williams is type-casted as a success story for ethnic minorities rather than as a success story for women in sports, then we'll see how the media is the new proverbial wheel of fortune.

 

[evince]

they kick everyone ass.

they are best



they thump the best competition that exists

they beat are the best that exists.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Many sports people turn off their game. A great sports person is someone who keeps going and going and wins and wins. Serena has done this.

Making this isn't a racist issue is just bizarre.

Why? Why does any criticism, or any retrospection that simply doesn't end in an "All hale Serena" have to be racist? If two people debate whether Steffi Graf is the best ever, with one person saying yes and the other saying no, does the person saying "no" have to be doing so because they are racist against white people?

If someone doubts Roger Federer as the greatest male player of all time, is that because they are being racist?

Did I say "All hale Serena" (rather than all hail Serena, which might be better). No, I did not.

I personally don't know why the OP decided that this would have anything to do with race in the first place. This was my point.

Anyone who discusses whether Serena is the best or someone else is the best and manages to keep away from race and making silly comments like "Yes, her hair beads created an unfair advantage." is probably just talking about tennis.

The point of the OP however appeared to be addressing concerns that racism was taking place within the discussion of the sport. I also said this, seeing as this is what the topic was about.

However you've managed to turn it from that to saying any criticism of Serena is suddenly racist, so you seem to be backing up the point the OP made that people bring race into such an issue.

 

[SwimExpert]

I personally don't know why the OP decided that this would have anything to do with race in the first place. This was my point.

I am merely invoking a discussion that has been begun by others. Anyone who disagrees that Serena is the GOAT is being accused of being a racist. Anyone who reflects about Serena in a way that is anything other than adoration is being accused of denying Serena due respect out of a racist unwillingness to allow a black woman to be known as the best of all time.

It is in-fucking-sane.

However you've managed to turn it from that to saying any criticism of Serena is suddenly racist, so you seem to be backing up the point the OP made that people bring race into such an issue.

Dude, I AM the original poster. Maybe you should learn how to read before you bother responding. This thread was originally meant for Politics, to discuss the rampant destruction of political correctness gone amok.

 

[frigidweirdo]

I personally don't know why the OP decided that this would have anything to do with race in the first place. This was my point.

I am merely invoking a discussion that has been begun by others. Anyone who disagrees that Serena is the GOAT is being accused of being a racist. Anyone who reflects about Serena in a way that is anything other than adoration is being accused of denying Serena due respect out of a racist unwillingness to allow a black woman to be known as the best of all time.

It is in-fucking-sane.

However you've managed to turn it from that to saying any criticism of Serena is suddenly racist, so you seem to be backing up the point the OP made that people bring race into such an issue.

Dude, I AM the original poster. Maybe you should learn how to read before you bother responding. This thread was originally meant for Politics, to discuss the rampant destruction of political correctness gone amok.

Maybe in your circles such things happen. People I talk to don't bother talking about race at all when it comes to tennis. Not that I'm a big tennis fan.

I should learn to read because I don't check every time whether I'm talking with the OP? Jeez, you seem to set high standards for others, maybe you should start living by high standards yourself.

 

[SwimExpert]

Maybe in your circles such things happen. People I talk to don't bother talking about race at all when it comes to tennis. Not that I'm a big tennis fan.

It's all over television and the internet. Get yourself up to speed before you open your mouth.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Maybe in your circles such things happen. People I talk to don't bother talking about race at all when it comes to tennis. Not that I'm a big tennis fan.

It's all over television and the internet. Get yourself up to speed before you open your mouth.

Did I say it wasn't there?
No, in fact I said maybe it happens in your circles.

The point being that those people who talk about it are probably people with RACE on their mind. I'm suggesting you have race on your mind, in case you missed that.

 

[rdean]

Gender Glue Gun

Remember how Russian gymnast Nadia Comaneci put female sports on the international map in a way that no other female athlete (in any sport) accomplished before her or since (until Serena Williams)?

You can argue about Mia Hamm, but women's soccer just hasn't reached that level of fanfare yet.

Serena is an awesome performer, but it was really how she came out of her prodigy older sister Venus's shadow in Wimbledon that established her as a potent female icon in the world of sports.

If Serena Williams is type-casted as a success story for ethnic minorities rather than as a success story for women in sports, then we'll see how the media is the new proverbial wheel of fortune.

What's amazing is how the sport has changed. Nadia:



Simone: