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I read the Communist Manifesto many years ago. I take it you support taxing "incomes" like Senator Cruz?
JWK
To support Jeb Bush is to support our Global Governance crowd and their WTO, NAFTA, GATT, and CAFTA, all used to circumvent America First trade policies, while fattening the fortunes of international corporate giants who have no allegiance to America or any nation.
Try reading it again, maybe you'll actually retain it this time. And stop trying to attribute things to me I never said. Carry on.
From your link:
The Communist Manifesto
The Communist Manifesto, originally titled Manifesto of the Communist Party is a short 1848 book written by the German political theorists Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels. It has since gone down in history as one of the world's most influential political manuscripts.
Communist Manifesto Precepts
1 Abolition of private property
2 Heavy progressive income tax
3 Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
4 Confiscation of property of all emigrants and rebels.
5 Central bank
6 Government control of Communications and Transportation
7 Government ownership of factories and agriculture.
8 Government control of labor
9 Corporate farms, regional Planning
10 Government control of education
Are you suggesting a flat tax, meaning a fixed percentage calculated from profits, gains and other incomes does not find its roots in the Communist Manifesto? I see taxing "incomes" as being an immoral tax in addition to the other objections I mentioned in the OP. If Ted Cruz changed his mind and rejected a flat tax calculated from profits, gains and other incomes and promoted a return to our Constitution's original tax plan, would you then change your mind too?
JWK
“…..with all these blessings, what more is necessary to make us a happy and a prosperous people? Still one thing more, fellow-citizens—a wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government, and this is necessary to close the circle of our felicities“. Thomas Jefferson, First Inaugural Address
Personally I want a flat tax charged from the first dollar to the last with no exemptions, exclusions or deductions. Everyone who earns pays, regardless of their life choices to have children, buy a home or whatever. That's the only way to get social engineering out of the tax code.
Think of what you are asking for. Businesses would immediately be bankrupted if they are not allowed to deduct necessary business expenses and outlays from gross receipts and are taxed on total receipts.
JWK
To support Jeb Bush is to support our Global Governance crowd and their WTO, NAFTA, GATT, and CAFTA, all used to circumvent America First trade policies, while fattening the fortunes of international corporate giants who have no allegiance to America or any nation.
Actually I was talking more about personal income tax, business should always be taxed on net profits, not gross receipts.
Try reading it again, maybe you'll actually retain it this time. And stop trying to attribute things to me I never said. Carry on.
From your link:
The Communist Manifesto
The Communist Manifesto, originally titled Manifesto of the Communist Party is a short 1848 book written by the German political theorists Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels. It has since gone down in history as one of the world's most influential political manuscripts.
Communist Manifesto Precepts
1 Abolition of private property
2 Heavy progressive income tax
3 Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
4 Confiscation of property of all emigrants and rebels.
5 Central bank
6 Government control of Communications and Transportation
7 Government ownership of factories and agriculture.
8 Government control of labor
9 Corporate farms, regional Planning
10 Government control of education
Are you suggesting a flat tax, meaning a fixed percentage calculated from profits, gains and other incomes does not find its roots in the Communist Manifesto? I see taxing "incomes" as being an immoral tax in addition to the other objections I mentioned in the OP. If Ted Cruz changed his mind and rejected a flat tax calculated from profits, gains and other incomes and promoted a return to our Constitution's original tax plan, would you then change your mind too?
JWK
“…..with all these blessings, what more is necessary to make us a happy and a prosperous people? Still one thing more, fellow-citizens—a wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government, and this is necessary to close the circle of our felicities“. Thomas Jefferson, First Inaugural Address
Personally I want a flat tax charged from the first dollar to the last with no exemptions, exclusions or deductions. Everyone who earns pays, regardless of their life choices to have children, buy a home or whatever. That's the only way to get social engineering out of the tax code.
Think of what you are asking for. Businesses would immediately be bankrupted if they are not allowed to deduct necessary business expenses and outlays from gross receipts and are taxed on total receipts.
JWK
To support Jeb Bush is to support our Global Governance crowd and their WTO, NAFTA, GATT, and CAFTA, all used to circumvent America First trade policies, while fattening the fortunes of international corporate giants who have no allegiance to America or any nation.
Actually I was talking more about personal income tax, business should always be taxed on net profits, not gross receipts.
If a business owner gets to deduct all necessary expenses and outlays from gross receipts to arrive at "taxable income", why shouldn't a wage earner be able to also deduct all necessary expenses and outlays from gross receipts to arrive at their taxable "income"?
Shouldn't a working person be allowed to deduct transportation costs to and from work in calculated their profit or gain? How about the costs involved with providing the necessities of life or medical expenses which a wage earner incurs which makes their labor possible? Shouldn't the wage earned be allowed to deduct these costs from gross receipts in calculating his/her profit or gain? How about the eight hour of life which a working person invests in earning a wage? Is this not to be considered as a capital outlay, the value of which ought to be deducted from gross receipts in order to arrive at an alleged profit or gain? Do you now see one of the reasons why a flat tax on "incomes" is an arbitrary and immoral system of taxation?
JWK
Are you suggesting a flat tax, meaning a fixed percentage calculated from profits, gains and other incomes does not find its roots in the Communist Manifesto? I see taxing "incomes" as being an immoral tax in addition to the other objections I mentioned in the OP. If Ted Cruz changed his mind and rejected a flat tax calculated from profits, gains and other incomes and promoted a return to our Constitution's original tax plan, would you then change your mind too?
JWK
“…..with all these blessings, what more is necessary to make us a happy and a prosperous people? Still one thing more, fellow-citizens—a wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government, and this is necessary to close the circle of our felicities“. Thomas Jefferson, First Inaugural Address
Personally I want a flat tax charged from the first dollar to the last with no exemptions, exclusions or deductions. Everyone who earns pays, regardless of their life choices to have children, buy a home or whatever. That's the only way to get social engineering out of the tax code.
Think of what you are asking for. Businesses would immediately be bankrupted if they are not allowed to deduct necessary business expenses and outlays from gross receipts and are taxed on total receipts.
JWK
To support Jeb Bush is to support our Global Governance crowd and their WTO, NAFTA, GATT, and CAFTA, all used to circumvent America First trade policies, while fattening the fortunes of international corporate giants who have no allegiance to America or any nation.
Actually I was talking more about personal income tax, business should always be taxed on net profits, not gross receipts.
If a business owner gets to deduct all necessary expenses and outlays from gross receipts to arrive at "taxable income", why shouldn't a wage earner be able to also deduct all necessary expenses and outlays from gross receipts to arrive at their taxable "income"?
Shouldn't a working person be allowed to deduct transportation costs to and from work in calculated their profit or gain? How about the costs involved with providing the necessities of life or medical expenses which a wage earner incurs which makes their labor possible? Shouldn't the wage earned be allowed to deduct these costs from gross receipts in calculating his/her profit or gain? How about the eight hour of life which a working person invests in earning a wage? Is this not to be considered as a capital outlay, the value of which ought to be deducted from gross receipts in order to arrive at an alleged profit or gain? Do you now see one of the reasons why a flat tax on "incomes" is an arbitrary and immoral system of taxation?
JWK
I bet you think you got me there, don't you? If you live so far away from your work that you need to use something other than your feet to get there, that is a choice not a necessity. .
Personally I want a flat tax charged from the first dollar to the last with no exemptions, exclusions or deductions. Everyone who earns pays, regardless of their life choices to have children, buy a home or whatever. That's the only way to get social engineering out of the tax code.
Think of what you are asking for. Businesses would immediately be bankrupted if they are not allowed to deduct necessary business expenses and outlays from gross receipts and are taxed on total receipts.
JWK
To support Jeb Bush is to support our Global Governance crowd and their WTO, NAFTA, GATT, and CAFTA, all used to circumvent America First trade policies, while fattening the fortunes of international corporate giants who have no allegiance to America or any nation.
Actually I was talking more about personal income tax, business should always be taxed on net profits, not gross receipts.
If a business owner gets to deduct all necessary expenses and outlays from gross receipts to arrive at "taxable income", why shouldn't a wage earner be able to also deduct all necessary expenses and outlays from gross receipts to arrive at their taxable "income"?
Shouldn't a working person be allowed to deduct transportation costs to and from work in calculated their profit or gain? How about the costs involved with providing the necessities of life or medical expenses which a wage earner incurs which makes their labor possible? Shouldn't the wage earned be allowed to deduct these costs from gross receipts in calculating his/her profit or gain? How about the eight hour of life which a working person invests in earning a wage? Is this not to be considered as a capital outlay, the value of which ought to be deducted from gross receipts in order to arrive at an alleged profit or gain? Do you now see one of the reasons why a flat tax on "incomes" is an arbitrary and immoral system of taxation?
JWK
I bet you think you got me there, don't you? If you live so far away from your work that you need to use something other than your feet to get there, that is a choice not a necessity. .
I'm not here to get you. I'm here for a productive discussion on federal tax reform. As to your remark about using one's feet to get to one's job, tell that to the millions of wager earners living in New York City who spend a considerable amount of their earned wage to get to and from work. Why do you have a problem with wage earners deducting all necessary outlays and expenses to arrive at a taxable profit or gain? And why should a wage earner not be allowed to deduct the value of their time and labor, which is a necessary outlay, from gross receipts in order to calculated an alleged profit or gain? Are these items not the "property" which a working person invests in pursuit of a "profit or gain" , the value of which must be deducted from gross receipts to calculate a taxable profit or gain?
Under a flat tax on incomes the constitutional meaning of what is and what is not taxable incomes is a vital question which must be answered. Seems to me the meaning of taxable “income” boils down to profits and or gains, collectively called “income”. And to arrive at one’s “income” all necessary outlays and expenses must be deducted from gross receipts to arrive at one’s “income”.
Income from a business which was wholly illegal was held subject to income tax in United States v. Sullivan, 274 U.S. 259. Nevertheless, it was necessary to determine what that income was, and the cost of an illegal purchase of liquor was subtracted from proceeds of the illegal sale of the liquor in order to arrive at the gain from the illegal transaction which were subjected to a tax in that case. And, in Sullenger vs. Commissioner, 11 T.C. 1076 (1948) the Court allowed the business owner [who made illegal purchases of meat] to deduct the cost of meat purchased at a higher price then set by the Office of Price Administration, a World War II price control agency, which he then resold for profit. The “income” from those sales was being taxed which was at issue in the case. The Court went on to cite Sullivan and concluded: “No authority has been cited for denying to this taxpayer the cost of goods sold in computing his profit, which profit alone is gross income for income tax purposes.”
So, what is the cost of goods sold by a wage earner? is it not his/her time, labor, skills, etc? The value of which must be deducted from gross receipts in order to arrive at an alleged profit or gain?
JWK
"The property which every man has in his own labor, as it is the original foundation of all other property, so it is the most sacred and inviolable. The patrimony of the poor man lies in the strength and dexterity of his own hands; and to hinder him from employing this strength and dexterity in what manner he thinks proper, without injury to his neighbor, is a plain violation of this most sacred property." ___ Butchers’ Union Co. v. Crescent City Co., 111 U.S. 746 (1884)
Personally I want a flat tax charged from the first dollar to the last with no exemptions, exclusions or deductions. Everyone who earns pays, regardless of their life choices to have children, buy a home or whatever. That's the only way to get social engineering out of the tax code.
Think of what you are asking for. Businesses would immediately be bankrupted if they are not allowed to deduct necessary business expenses and outlays from gross receipts and are taxed on total receipts.
JWK
To support Jeb Bush is to support our Global Governance crowd and their WTO, NAFTA, GATT, and CAFTA, all used to circumvent America First trade policies, while fattening the fortunes of international corporate giants who have no allegiance to America or any nation.
Actually I was talking more about personal income tax, business should always be taxed on net profits, not gross receipts.
If a business owner gets to deduct all necessary expenses and outlays from gross receipts to arrive at "taxable income", why shouldn't a wage earner be able to also deduct all necessary expenses and outlays from gross receipts to arrive at their taxable "income"?
Shouldn't a working person be allowed to deduct transportation costs to and from work in calculated their profit or gain? How about the costs involved with providing the necessities of life or medical expenses which a wage earner incurs which makes their labor possible? Shouldn't the wage earned be allowed to deduct these costs from gross receipts in calculating his/her profit or gain? How about the eight hour of life which a working person invests in earning a wage? Is this not to be considered as a capital outlay, the value of which ought to be deducted from gross receipts in order to arrive at an alleged profit or gain? Do you now see one of the reasons why a flat tax on "incomes" is an arbitrary and immoral system of taxation?
JWK
I bet you think you got me there, don't you? If you live so far away from your work that you need to use something other than your feet to get there, that is a choice not a necessity. .
I'm not here to get you. I'm here for a productive discussion on federal tax reform. As to your remark about using one's feet to get to one's job, tell that to the millions of wager earners living in New York City who spend a considerable amount of their earned wage to get to and from work. Why do you have a problem with wage earners deducting all necessary outlays and expenses to arrive at a taxable profit or gain? And why should a wage earner not be allowed to deduct the value of their time and labor, which is a necessary outlay, from gross receipts in order to calculated an alleged profit or gain? Are these items not the "property" which a working person invests in pursuit of a "profit or gain" , the value of which must be deducted from gross receipts to calculate a taxable profit or gain?
Under a flat tax on incomes the constitutional meaning of what is and what is not taxable incomes is a vital question which must be answered. Seems to me the meaning of taxable “income” boils down to profits and or gains, collectively called “income”. And to arrive at one’s “income” all necessary outlays and expenses must be deducted from gross receipts to arrive at one’s “income”.
Income from a business which was wholly illegal was held subject to income tax in United States v. Sullivan, 274 U.S. 259. Nevertheless, it was necessary to determine what that income was, and the cost of an illegal purchase of liquor was subtracted from proceeds of the illegal sale of the liquor in order to arrive at the gain from the illegal transaction which were subjected to a tax in that case. And, in Sullenger vs. Commissioner, 11 T.C. 1076 (1948) the Court allowed the business owner [who made illegal purchases of meat] to deduct the cost of meat purchased at a higher price then set by the Office of Price Administration, a World War II price control agency, which he then resold for profit. The “income” from those sales was being taxed which was at issue in the case. The Court went on to cite Sullivan and concluded: “No authority has been cited for denying to this taxpayer the cost of goods sold in computing his profit, which profit alone is gross income for income tax purposes.”
So, what is the cost of goods sold by a wage earner? is it not his/her time, labor, skills, etc? The value of which must be deducted from gross receipts in order to arrive at an alleged profit or gain?
JWK
"The property which every man has in his own labor, as it is the original foundation of all other property, so it is the most sacred and inviolable. The patrimony of the poor man lies in the strength and dexterity of his own hands; and to hinder him from employing this strength and dexterity in what manner he thinks proper, without injury to his neighbor, is a plain violation of this most sacred property." ___ Butchers’ Union Co. v. Crescent City Co., 111 U.S. 746 (1884)
Think of what you are asking for. Businesses would immediately be bankrupted if they are not allowed to deduct necessary business expenses and outlays from gross receipts and are taxed on total receipts.
JWK
To support Jeb Bush is to support our Global Governance crowd and their WTO, NAFTA, GATT, and CAFTA, all used to circumvent America First trade policies, while fattening the fortunes of international corporate giants who have no allegiance to America or any nation.
Actually I was talking more about personal income tax, business should always be taxed on net profits, not gross receipts.
If a business owner gets to deduct all necessary expenses and outlays from gross receipts to arrive at "taxable income", why shouldn't a wage earner be able to also deduct all necessary expenses and outlays from gross receipts to arrive at their taxable "income"?
Shouldn't a working person be allowed to deduct transportation costs to and from work in calculated their profit or gain? How about the costs involved with providing the necessities of life or medical expenses which a wage earner incurs which makes their labor possible? Shouldn't the wage earned be allowed to deduct these costs from gross receipts in calculating his/her profit or gain? How about the eight hour of life which a working person invests in earning a wage? Is this not to be considered as a capital outlay, the value of which ought to be deducted from gross receipts in order to arrive at an alleged profit or gain? Do you now see one of the reasons why a flat tax on "incomes" is an arbitrary and immoral system of taxation?
JWK
I bet you think you got me there, don't you? If you live so far away from your work that you need to use something other than your feet to get there, that is a choice not a necessity. .
I'm not here to get you. I'm here for a productive discussion on federal tax reform. As to your remark about using one's feet to get to one's job, tell that to the millions of wager earners living in New York City who spend a considerable amount of their earned wage to get to and from work. Why do you have a problem with wage earners deducting all necessary outlays and expenses to arrive at a taxable profit or gain? And why should a wage earner not be allowed to deduct the value of their time and labor, which is a necessary outlay, from gross receipts in order to calculated an alleged profit or gain? Are these items not the "property" which a working person invests in pursuit of a "profit or gain" , the value of which must be deducted from gross receipts to calculate a taxable profit or gain?
Under a flat tax on incomes the constitutional meaning of what is and what is not taxable incomes is a vital question which must be answered. Seems to me the meaning of taxable “income” boils down to profits and or gains, collectively called “income”. And to arrive at one’s “income” all necessary outlays and expenses must be deducted from gross receipts to arrive at one’s “income”.
Income from a business which was wholly illegal was held subject to income tax in United States v. Sullivan, 274 U.S. 259. Nevertheless, it was necessary to determine what that income was, and the cost of an illegal purchase of liquor was subtracted from proceeds of the illegal sale of the liquor in order to arrive at the gain from the illegal transaction which were subjected to a tax in that case. And, in Sullenger vs. Commissioner, 11 T.C. 1076 (1948) the Court allowed the business owner [who made illegal purchases of meat] to deduct the cost of meat purchased at a higher price then set by the Office of Price Administration, a World War II price control agency, which he then resold for profit. The “income” from those sales was being taxed which was at issue in the case. The Court went on to cite Sullivan and concluded: “No authority has been cited for denying to this taxpayer the cost of goods sold in computing his profit, which profit alone is gross income for income tax purposes.”
So, what is the cost of goods sold by a wage earner? is it not his/her time, labor, skills, etc? The value of which must be deducted from gross receipts in order to arrive at an alleged profit or gain?
JWK
"The property which every man has in his own labor, as it is the original foundation of all other property, so it is the most sacred and inviolable. The patrimony of the poor man lies in the strength and dexterity of his own hands; and to hinder him from employing this strength and dexterity in what manner he thinks proper, without injury to his neighbor, is a plain violation of this most sacred property." ___ Butchers’ Union Co. v. Crescent City Co., 111 U.S. 746 (1884)
Ok, let's say I give you transportation, parking and the like. The persons time and labor are compensated by a mutual agreement between themselves and the employer which is the origin of their gross receipts, so what is there to deduct?.
Actually I was talking more about personal income tax, business should always be taxed on net profits, not gross receipts.
If a business owner gets to deduct all necessary expenses and outlays from gross receipts to arrive at "taxable income", why shouldn't a wage earner be able to also deduct all necessary expenses and outlays from gross receipts to arrive at their taxable "income"?
Shouldn't a working person be allowed to deduct transportation costs to and from work in calculated their profit or gain? How about the costs involved with providing the necessities of life or medical expenses which a wage earner incurs which makes their labor possible? Shouldn't the wage earned be allowed to deduct these costs from gross receipts in calculating his/her profit or gain? How about the eight hour of life which a working person invests in earning a wage? Is this not to be considered as a capital outlay, the value of which ought to be deducted from gross receipts in order to arrive at an alleged profit or gain? Do you now see one of the reasons why a flat tax on "incomes" is an arbitrary and immoral system of taxation?
JWK
I bet you think you got me there, don't you? If you live so far away from your work that you need to use something other than your feet to get there, that is a choice not a necessity. .
I'm not here to get you. I'm here for a productive discussion on federal tax reform. As to your remark about using one's feet to get to one's job, tell that to the millions of wager earners living in New York City who spend a considerable amount of their earned wage to get to and from work. Why do you have a problem with wage earners deducting all necessary outlays and expenses to arrive at a taxable profit or gain? And why should a wage earner not be allowed to deduct the value of their time and labor, which is a necessary outlay, from gross receipts in order to calculated an alleged profit or gain? Are these items not the "property" which a working person invests in pursuit of a "profit or gain" , the value of which must be deducted from gross receipts to calculate a taxable profit or gain?
Under a flat tax on incomes the constitutional meaning of what is and what is not taxable incomes is a vital question which must be answered. Seems to me the meaning of taxable “income” boils down to profits and or gains, collectively called “income”. And to arrive at one’s “income” all necessary outlays and expenses must be deducted from gross receipts to arrive at one’s “income”.
Income from a business which was wholly illegal was held subject to income tax in United States v. Sullivan, 274 U.S. 259. Nevertheless, it was necessary to determine what that income was, and the cost of an illegal purchase of liquor was subtracted from proceeds of the illegal sale of the liquor in order to arrive at the gain from the illegal transaction which were subjected to a tax in that case. And, in Sullenger vs. Commissioner, 11 T.C. 1076 (1948) the Court allowed the business owner [who made illegal purchases of meat] to deduct the cost of meat purchased at a higher price then set by the Office of Price Administration, a World War II price control agency, which he then resold for profit. The “income” from those sales was being taxed which was at issue in the case. The Court went on to cite Sullivan and concluded: “No authority has been cited for denying to this taxpayer the cost of goods sold in computing his profit, which profit alone is gross income for income tax purposes.”
So, what is the cost of goods sold by a wage earner? is it not his/her time, labor, skills, etc? The value of which must be deducted from gross receipts in order to arrive at an alleged profit or gain?
JWK
"The property which every man has in his own labor, as it is the original foundation of all other property, so it is the most sacred and inviolable. The patrimony of the poor man lies in the strength and dexterity of his own hands; and to hinder him from employing this strength and dexterity in what manner he thinks proper, without injury to his neighbor, is a plain violation of this most sacred property." ___ Butchers’ Union Co. v. Crescent City Co., 111 U.S. 746 (1884)
Ok, let's say I give you transportation, parking and the like. The persons time and labor are compensated by a mutual agreement between themselves and the employer which is the origin of their gross receipts, so what is there to deduct?.
You are now talking about an equal exchange and not a profit making relationship for the wage earner. However, the business owner who purchases the wage earner's property [time, labor, skills, etc.] does so to realize a profit which is calculated after deducting the value of labor sold.
The wage earners' time, labor and skills are valuable property which is invested by a wage earner and must be deducted from gross receipts to calculate a taxable profit. Where is the taxable profit realized by the wage earner, "which profit alone is gross income for income tax purposes” as mentioned in Sullenger?
JWK
Up to that point in history what government had allowed women to vote?
If a business owner gets to deduct all necessary expenses and outlays from gross receipts to arrive at "taxable income", why shouldn't a wage earner be able to also deduct all necessary expenses and outlays from gross receipts to arrive at their taxable "income"?
Shouldn't a working person be allowed to deduct transportation costs to and from work in calculated their profit or gain? How about the costs involved with providing the necessities of life or medical expenses which a wage earner incurs which makes their labor possible? Shouldn't the wage earned be allowed to deduct these costs from gross receipts in calculating his/her profit or gain? How about the eight hour of life which a working person invests in earning a wage? Is this not to be considered as a capital outlay, the value of which ought to be deducted from gross receipts in order to arrive at an alleged profit or gain? Do you now see one of the reasons why a flat tax on "incomes" is an arbitrary and immoral system of taxation?
JWK
I bet you think you got me there, don't you? If you live so far away from your work that you need to use something other than your feet to get there, that is a choice not a necessity. .
I'm not here to get you. I'm here for a productive discussion on federal tax reform. As to your remark about using one's feet to get to one's job, tell that to the millions of wager earners living in New York City who spend a considerable amount of their earned wage to get to and from work. Why do you have a problem with wage earners deducting all necessary outlays and expenses to arrive at a taxable profit or gain? And why should a wage earner not be allowed to deduct the value of their time and labor, which is a necessary outlay, from gross receipts in order to calculated an alleged profit or gain? Are these items not the "property" which a working person invests in pursuit of a "profit or gain" , the value of which must be deducted from gross receipts to calculate a taxable profit or gain?
Under a flat tax on incomes the constitutional meaning of what is and what is not taxable incomes is a vital question which must be answered. Seems to me the meaning of taxable “income” boils down to profits and or gains, collectively called “income”. And to arrive at one’s “income” all necessary outlays and expenses must be deducted from gross receipts to arrive at one’s “income”.
Income from a business which was wholly illegal was held subject to income tax in United States v. Sullivan, 274 U.S. 259. Nevertheless, it was necessary to determine what that income was, and the cost of an illegal purchase of liquor was subtracted from proceeds of the illegal sale of the liquor in order to arrive at the gain from the illegal transaction which were subjected to a tax in that case. And, in Sullenger vs. Commissioner, 11 T.C. 1076 (1948) the Court allowed the business owner [who made illegal purchases of meat] to deduct the cost of meat purchased at a higher price then set by the Office of Price Administration, a World War II price control agency, which he then resold for profit. The “income” from those sales was being taxed which was at issue in the case. The Court went on to cite Sullivan and concluded: “No authority has been cited for denying to this taxpayer the cost of goods sold in computing his profit, which profit alone is gross income for income tax purposes.”
So, what is the cost of goods sold by a wage earner? is it not his/her time, labor, skills, etc? The value of which must be deducted from gross receipts in order to arrive at an alleged profit or gain?
JWK
"The property which every man has in his own labor, as it is the original foundation of all other property, so it is the most sacred and inviolable. The patrimony of the poor man lies in the strength and dexterity of his own hands; and to hinder him from employing this strength and dexterity in what manner he thinks proper, without injury to his neighbor, is a plain violation of this most sacred property." ___ Butchers’ Union Co. v. Crescent City Co., 111 U.S. 746 (1884)
Ok, let's say I give you transportation, parking and the like. The persons time and labor are compensated by a mutual agreement between themselves and the employer which is the origin of their gross receipts, so what is there to deduct?.
You are now talking about an equal exchange and not a profit making relationship for the wage earner. However, the business owner who purchases the wage earner's property [time, labor, skills, etc.] does so to realize a profit which is calculated after deducting the value of labor sold.
The wage earners' time, labor and skills are valuable property which is invested by a wage earner and must be deducted from gross receipts to calculate a taxable profit. Where is the taxable profit realized by the wage earner, "which profit alone is gross income for income tax purposes” as mentioned in Sullenger?
JWK
Now you have crossed into the realm of the ridiculous. So how about I just jump out there with you. You are essentially saying that the CEO who makes millions per year or the actor who is paid millions per picture or the athlete who make millions per season, are just breaking even. Really? Using your concept they are no different than a burger flipper at Burger King. If they are only breaking even how do they live and buy cell phones and all the other things Americans take for granted? Can you say profit?
I bet you think you got me there, don't you? If you live so far away from your work that you need to use something other than your feet to get there, that is a choice not a necessity. .
I'm not here to get you. I'm here for a productive discussion on federal tax reform. As to your remark about using one's feet to get to one's job, tell that to the millions of wager earners living in New York City who spend a considerable amount of their earned wage to get to and from work. Why do you have a problem with wage earners deducting all necessary outlays and expenses to arrive at a taxable profit or gain? And why should a wage earner not be allowed to deduct the value of their time and labor, which is a necessary outlay, from gross receipts in order to calculated an alleged profit or gain? Are these items not the "property" which a working person invests in pursuit of a "profit or gain" , the value of which must be deducted from gross receipts to calculate a taxable profit or gain?
Under a flat tax on incomes the constitutional meaning of what is and what is not taxable incomes is a vital question which must be answered. Seems to me the meaning of taxable “income” boils down to profits and or gains, collectively called “income”. And to arrive at one’s “income” all necessary outlays and expenses must be deducted from gross receipts to arrive at one’s “income”.
Income from a business which was wholly illegal was held subject to income tax in United States v. Sullivan, 274 U.S. 259. Nevertheless, it was necessary to determine what that income was, and the cost of an illegal purchase of liquor was subtracted from proceeds of the illegal sale of the liquor in order to arrive at the gain from the illegal transaction which were subjected to a tax in that case. And, in Sullenger vs. Commissioner, 11 T.C. 1076 (1948) the Court allowed the business owner [who made illegal purchases of meat] to deduct the cost of meat purchased at a higher price then set by the Office of Price Administration, a World War II price control agency, which he then resold for profit. The “income” from those sales was being taxed which was at issue in the case. The Court went on to cite Sullivan and concluded: “No authority has been cited for denying to this taxpayer the cost of goods sold in computing his profit, which profit alone is gross income for income tax purposes.”
So, what is the cost of goods sold by a wage earner? is it not his/her time, labor, skills, etc? The value of which must be deducted from gross receipts in order to arrive at an alleged profit or gain?
JWK
"The property which every man has in his own labor, as it is the original foundation of all other property, so it is the most sacred and inviolable. The patrimony of the poor man lies in the strength and dexterity of his own hands; and to hinder him from employing this strength and dexterity in what manner he thinks proper, without injury to his neighbor, is a plain violation of this most sacred property." ___ Butchers’ Union Co. v. Crescent City Co., 111 U.S. 746 (1884)
Ok, let's say I give you transportation, parking and the like. The persons time and labor are compensated by a mutual agreement between themselves and the employer which is the origin of their gross receipts, so what is there to deduct?.
You are now talking about an equal exchange and not a profit making relationship for the wage earner. However, the business owner who purchases the wage earner's property [time, labor, skills, etc.] does so to realize a profit which is calculated after deducting the value of labor sold.
The wage earners' time, labor and skills are valuable property which is invested by a wage earner and must be deducted from gross receipts to calculate a taxable profit. Where is the taxable profit realized by the wage earner, "which profit alone is gross income for income tax purposes” as mentioned in Sullenger?
JWK
Now you have crossed into the realm of the ridiculous. So how about I just jump out there with you. You are essentially saying that the CEO who makes millions per year or the actor who is paid millions per picture or the athlete who make millions per season, are just breaking even. Really? Using your concept they are no different than a burger flipper at Burger King. If they are only breaking even how do they live and buy cell phones and all the other things Americans take for granted? Can you say profit?
No. That is not what I am essentially saying. That is what you are saying. I am talking about your average working person living in New York City which I already referenced. As to your remark about a "burger flipper at Burger King" and "profit", you neglect to realize they have traded eight hours of their life to buy that cell phone. And you suggest that is "profit"? In order to have a profit or gain, that which is invested, and all other outlays and expenses, must be deducted from gross receipts. Do you not consider the eight hours of life which hard working people living in our nation's inner cities surrender to buy a cell phone a valuable outlay? Should its value not be deducted from gross receipts to arrive at an alleged profit? If a working person's labor has no ascertainable value, then why are corporations allowed to deduct the cost of labor from gross receipts when calculating their taxable profit or gain? Why does the corporation get to deduct the value of labor and not the wage earner who has surrendered it when calculating a profit? Can you not yet see how immoral and arbitrary an "income" tax is and especially so when impose upon hard working wage earners?
Why does Senator Cruz support this immoral and arbitrary tax?
JWK
“…..with all these blessings, what more is necessary to make us a happy and a prosperous people? Still one thing more, fellow-citizens—a wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government, and this is necessary to close the circle of our felicities“. Thomas Jefferson, First Inaugural Address
SEE: Sen. Ted Cruz attacks Obama during New Hampshire visit
Sun Mar 15, 2015
”Instead Cruz sketched the outlines of a fledgling platform, calling for a flat tax so that every American can “fill out his or her taxes on a postcard.”
I cannot imagine why Senator Cruz, a “conservative” is still promoting as tax reform a direct flat tax on incomes which is an immoral tax that finds its roots in the Communist Manifesto
The truth is, a flat tax does absolutely nothing to remove the iron fist of our federal government from the necks of America’s hard working productive citizens and business owners. It is a discriminatory tax in that it is laid directly upon the individual and measures the amount of tax the individual is to pay based upon their annual earnings which in effect commands our nation’s most productive hard working wage earning citizens and businesses owners to finance the functions of government while the least productive citizen is not required to pay an equal share to support government, or even any share at all!
Another means of silently lessening the inequality of property is to exempt all from taxation below a certain point, and to tax the higher portions or property in geometrical progression as they rise.
I see nothing wrong with making people that use more of the resources pay their fair share. The rich man that uses our roads more, police more and use up more land = need to pay more.
Keep the socialist income tax.
I see nothing wrong with making people that use more of the resources pay their fair share. The rich man that uses our roads more, police more and use up more land = need to pay more.
Keep the socialist income tax.
Uh..I'd have to say the poor use our tax dollars at a much higher rate than the wealthy...considering we are the one's doing the paying.
We dont ride the bus,we dont use social services and we make our own money.
How exactly do the poor contribute?
Up to that point in history what government had allowed women to vote?
British Massachusetts, American New Jersey, Sierra Leone, and France, for starters.
I'm not here to get you. I'm here for a productive discussion on federal tax reform. As to your remark about using one's feet to get to one's job, tell that to the millions of wager earners living in New York City who spend a considerable amount of their earned wage to get to and from work. Why do you have a problem with wage earners deducting all necessary outlays and expenses to arrive at a taxable profit or gain? And why should a wage earner not be allowed to deduct the value of their time and labor, which is a necessary outlay, from gross receipts in order to calculated an alleged profit or gain? Are these items not the "property" which a working person invests in pursuit of a "profit or gain" , the value of which must be deducted from gross receipts to calculate a taxable profit or gain?
Under a flat tax on incomes the constitutional meaning of what is and what is not taxable incomes is a vital question which must be answered. Seems to me the meaning of taxable “income” boils down to profits and or gains, collectively called “income”. And to arrive at one’s “income” all necessary outlays and expenses must be deducted from gross receipts to arrive at one’s “income”.
Income from a business which was wholly illegal was held subject to income tax in United States v. Sullivan, 274 U.S. 259. Nevertheless, it was necessary to determine what that income was, and the cost of an illegal purchase of liquor was subtracted from proceeds of the illegal sale of the liquor in order to arrive at the gain from the illegal transaction which were subjected to a tax in that case. And, in Sullenger vs. Commissioner, 11 T.C. 1076 (1948) the Court allowed the business owner [who made illegal purchases of meat] to deduct the cost of meat purchased at a higher price then set by the Office of Price Administration, a World War II price control agency, which he then resold for profit. The “income” from those sales was being taxed which was at issue in the case. The Court went on to cite Sullivan and concluded: “No authority has been cited for denying to this taxpayer the cost of goods sold in computing his profit, which profit alone is gross income for income tax purposes.”
So, what is the cost of goods sold by a wage earner? is it not his/her time, labor, skills, etc? The value of which must be deducted from gross receipts in order to arrive at an alleged profit or gain?
JWK
"The property which every man has in his own labor, as it is the original foundation of all other property, so it is the most sacred and inviolable. The patrimony of the poor man lies in the strength and dexterity of his own hands; and to hinder him from employing this strength and dexterity in what manner he thinks proper, without injury to his neighbor, is a plain violation of this most sacred property." ___ Butchers’ Union Co. v. Crescent City Co., 111 U.S. 746 (1884)
Ok, let's say I give you transportation, parking and the like. The persons time and labor are compensated by a mutual agreement between themselves and the employer which is the origin of their gross receipts, so what is there to deduct?.
You are now talking about an equal exchange and not a profit making relationship for the wage earner. However, the business owner who purchases the wage earner's property [time, labor, skills, etc.] does so to realize a profit which is calculated after deducting the value of labor sold.
The wage earners' time, labor and skills are valuable property which is invested by a wage earner and must be deducted from gross receipts to calculate a taxable profit. Where is the taxable profit realized by the wage earner, "which profit alone is gross income for income tax purposes” as mentioned in Sullenger?
JWK
Now you have crossed into the realm of the ridiculous. So how about I just jump out there with you. You are essentially saying that the CEO who makes millions per year or the actor who is paid millions per picture or the athlete who make millions per season, are just breaking even. Really? Using your concept they are no different than a burger flipper at Burger King. If they are only breaking even how do they live and buy cell phones and all the other things Americans take for granted? Can you say profit?
No. That is not what I am essentially saying. That is what you are saying. I am talking about your average working person living in New York City which I already referenced. As to your remark about a "burger flipper at Burger King" and "profit", you neglect to realize they have traded eight hours of their life to buy that cell phone. And you suggest that is "profit"? In order to have a profit or gain, that which is invested, and all other outlays and expenses, must be deducted from gross receipts. Do you not consider the eight hours of life which hard working people living in our nation's inner cities surrender to buy a cell phone a valuable outlay? Should its value not be deducted from gross receipts to arrive at an alleged profit? If a working person's labor has no ascertainable value, then why are corporations allowed to deduct the cost of labor from gross receipts when calculating their taxable profit or gain? Why does the corporation get to deduct the value of labor and not the wage earner who has surrendered it when calculating a profit? Can you not yet see how immoral and arbitrary an "income" tax is and especially so when impose upon hard working wage earners?
Why does Senator Cruz support this immoral and arbitrary tax?
JWK
“…..with all these blessings, what more is necessary to make us a happy and a prosperous people? Still one thing more, fellow-citizens—a wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government, and this is necessary to close the circle of our felicities“. Thomas Jefferson, First Inaugural Address
Sorry kid, I'm done with your circular non-logic. Maybe you should go out and get some real business experience, then you might actually learn the difference between the value and the cost of labor and how workers, regardless of where they live, are compensated for their time. Then maybe you can have an intelligent discussion on the subject.
