Senator Ted Cruz doubles down on keeping the socialist income tax!

[Judicial review]

The Right might have credibility on taxes if they were as equally against the regressive payroll taxes because they tax the poor more than the rich, as they are against the progressive income tax because it taxes the rich more than the poor. But they are not so the Right has no credibility when it comes to taxes!

The payroll tax is a flat tax, everyone is taxed the same so how could the poor be paying more?

You eliminate the payroll tax and simply make the corporate tax rate based on business income a flat tax you will CREATE JOBS, which means MORE TAX REVENUE!!!!!!!

There zero reason to double tax any person or business on the federal level.

 

[OKTexas]

The Right might have credibility on taxes if they were as equally against the regressive payroll taxes because they tax the poor more than the rich, as they are against the progressive income tax because it taxes the rich more than the poor. But they are not so the Right has no credibility when it comes to taxes!

The payroll tax is a flat tax, everyone is taxed the same so how could the poor be paying more?

You eliminate the payroll tax and simply make the corporate tax rate based on business income a flat tax you will CREATE JOBS, which means MORE TAX REVENUE!!!!!!!

There zero reason to double tax any person or business on the federal level.

You can only wish not to be double taxed, just think of all the federal excise taxes and fees there are, they pick our pockets just about every time we turn around.

 

[edthecynic]

The Right might have credibility on taxes if they were as equally against the regressive payroll taxes because they tax the poor more than the rich, as they are against the progressive income tax because it taxes the rich more than the poor. But they are not so the Right has no credibility when it comes to taxes!

The payroll tax is a flat tax, everyone is taxed the same so how could the poor be paying more?

There is a CAP at a little over $100,000 so anyone making more is taxed less, and capital gains are exempt, so it is hardly flat and clearly regressive. It is also a job killer as it makes it more expensive to hire Americans and as such it should be the first tax cut or eliminated.

"My point being there may be ways to fund the needs for revenue that would look beyond the payroll tax. Why go back to the same old solution? When it was 2 percent, doubling it wasn't that big a problem. Now that it's 12 percent, we actually are dealing with a job-killer; the higher the payroll tax, the fewer people are hired."
- REP. BILL THOMAS, (R-CA)

 

[OKTexas]

The Right might have credibility on taxes if they were as equally against the regressive payroll taxes because they tax the poor more than the rich, as they are against the progressive income tax because it taxes the rich more than the poor. But they are not so the Right has no credibility when it comes to taxes!

The payroll tax is a flat tax, everyone is taxed the same so how could the poor be paying more?

There is a CAP at a little over $100,000 so anyone making more is taxed less, and capital gains are exempt, so it is hardly flat and clearly regressive. It is also a job killer as it makes it more expensive to hire Americans and as such it should be the first tax cut or eliminated.

"My point being there may be ways to fund the needs for revenue that would look beyond the payroll tax. Why go back to the same old solution? When it was 2 percent, doubling it wasn't that big a problem. Now that it's 12 percent, we actually are dealing with a job-killer; the higher the payroll tax, the fewer people are hired."
- REP. BILL THOMAS, (R-CA)

As long as there is a cap on the benefits it's only right that an equivalent cap on earned income subject to the tax exist. If a better way can be found to fund it, I'm all for it.

 

[Judicial review]

The Right might have credibility on taxes if they were as equally against the regressive payroll taxes because they tax the poor more than the rich, as they are against the progressive income tax because it taxes the rich more than the poor. But they are not so the Right has no credibility when it comes to taxes!

The payroll tax is a flat tax, everyone is taxed the same so how could the poor be paying more?

You eliminate the payroll tax and simply make the corporate tax rate based on business income a flat tax you will CREATE JOBS, which means MORE TAX REVENUE!!!!!!!

There zero reason to double tax any person or business on the federal level.

You can only wish not to be double taxed, just think of all the federal excise taxes and fees there are, they pick our pockets just about every time we turn around.

A true flat tax will eliminate that. It will eliminate the need for the gas tax also and any other federal tax. Hell if we are going to pass trillion dollar stimulous bills that fund and build our infrstructure why in the hell do we have a gas tax? It makes it pointless. That pisses me off more than anything when I got to the pump.

 

[OKTexas]

The Right might have credibility on taxes if they were as equally against the regressive payroll taxes because they tax the poor more than the rich, as they are against the progressive income tax because it taxes the rich more than the poor. But they are not so the Right has no credibility when it comes to taxes!

The payroll tax is a flat tax, everyone is taxed the same so how could the poor be paying more?

You eliminate the payroll tax and simply make the corporate tax rate based on business income a flat tax you will CREATE JOBS, which means MORE TAX REVENUE!!!!!!!

There zero reason to double tax any person or business on the federal level.

You can only wish not to be double taxed, just think of all the federal excise taxes and fees there are, they pick our pockets just about every time we turn around.

A true flat tax will eliminate that. It will eliminate the need for the gas tax also and any other federal tax. Hell if we are going to pass trillion dollar stimulous bills that fund and build our infrstructure why in the hell do we have a gas tax? It makes it pointless. That pisses me off more than anything when I got to the pump.

That's because the politicians spend the "highway trust fund" on many other things, highways get some but not all the money.

 

[Judicial review]

The Right might have credibility on taxes if they were as equally against the regressive payroll taxes because they tax the poor more than the rich, as they are against the progressive income tax because it taxes the rich more than the poor. But they are not so the Right has no credibility when it comes to taxes!

The payroll tax is a flat tax, everyone is taxed the same so how could the poor be paying more?

You eliminate the payroll tax and simply make the corporate tax rate based on business income a flat tax you will CREATE JOBS, which means MORE TAX REVENUE!!!!!!!

There zero reason to double tax any person or business on the federal level.

You can only wish not to be double taxed, just think of all the federal excise taxes and fees there are, they pick our pockets just about every time we turn around.

A true flat tax will eliminate that. It will eliminate the need for the gas tax also and any other federal tax. Hell if we are going to pass trillion dollar stimulous bills that fund and build our infrstructure why in the hell do we have a gas tax? It makes it pointless. That pisses me off more than anything when I got to the pump.

That's because the politicians spend the "highway trust fund" on many other things, highways get some but not all the money.

To be honest - there's no reason for it. We are talking hundreds of billions on infrastructure or the majority of a trillion dollar bill for it compared to a measly gas tax, which brings in a fraction of that. A stimulus of that magnitude if spent right could fund EVERY states infrastructure projects for the next 10 years. We know it wasn't managed properly, but imagine if it was. You get the point.

Eliminate the gas tax. There's no point in having it. Period.

 

[Skylar]

Actually I'm saying everyone who has earnings should have to pay, instead of getting welfare through the tax code, it's suppose to raise revenue not spend it, that's why we have welfare. I also don't think the tax code is there to encourage people to live their lives a certain way or buy government approved shit just to save on taxes.

Whereas I'm not taking an ideologically driven approach to taxation that ignores the practical consequences. Instead I advocate a method of taxation that takes into account practical consequences of say, increasing taxation of the poor and middle class.

I also try to communicate to the poor and middle class that flat taxes tend to be rather regressive. And that by voting for such a tax, they're voting for a significant increase in their own taxes. While voting for a rather sizable tax decrease for the wealthy.

 

[OKTexas]

Actually I'm saying everyone who has earnings should have to pay, instead of getting welfare through the tax code, it's suppose to raise revenue not spend it, that's why we have welfare. I also don't think the tax code is there to encourage people to live their lives a certain way or buy government approved shit just to save on taxes.

Whereas I'm not taking an ideologically driven approach to taxation that ignores the practical consequences. Instead I advocate a method of taxation that takes into account practical consequences of say, increasing taxation of the poor and middle class.

I also try to communicate to the poor and middle class that flat taxes tend to be rather regressive. And that by voting for such a tax, they're voting for a significant increase in their own taxes. While voting for a rather sizable tax decrease for the wealthy.

Why did you edit out and ignore my question at the end of that quote? Do you not have an answer?

 

[johnwk]

Actually I'm saying everyone who has earnings should have to pay, instead of getting welfare through the tax code, it's suppose to raise revenue not spend it, that's why we have welfare. I also don't think the tax code is there to encourage people to live their lives a certain way or buy government approved shit just to save on taxes.

Whereas I'm not taking an ideologically driven approach to taxation that ignores the practical consequences. Instead I advocate a method of taxation that takes into account practical consequences of say, increasing taxation of the poor and middle class.

I also try to communicate to the poor and middle class that flat taxes tend to be rather regressive. And that by voting for such a tax, they're voting for a significant increase in their own taxes. While voting for a rather sizable tax decrease for the wealthy.

Why did you edit out and ignore my question at the end of that quote? Do you not have an answer?

That poster is not interested in a productive discussion!

JWK







It’s not PORK. It’s a money laundering operation used to plunder our national treasury and fatten the fortunes of the well-connected in Washington.

 

[johnwk]

And a flat tax on incomes finds its roots in the Communist Manifesto, just like I stated!


JWK

Maybe you should read item 2 in the link you provided.

I read the Communist Manifesto many years ago. I take it you support taxing "incomes" like Senator Cruz?


JWK







To support Jeb Bush is to support our Global Governance crowd and their WTO, NAFTA, GATT, and CAFTA, all used to circumvent America First trade policies, while fattening the fortunes of international corporate giants who have no allegiance to America or any nation.

Try reading it again, maybe you'll actually retain it this time. And stop trying to attribute things to me I never said. Carry on.

From your link:

The Communist Manifesto
The Communist Manifesto, originally titled Manifesto of the Communist Party is a short 1848 book written by the German political theorists Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels. It has since gone down in history as one of the world's most influential political manuscripts.



Communist Manifesto Precepts
1 Abolition of private property

2 Heavy progressive income tax

3 Abolition of all rights of inheritance.

4 Confiscation of property of all emigrants and rebels.

5 Central bank

6 Government control of Communications and Transportation

7 Government ownership of factories and agriculture.

8 Government control of labor

9 Corporate farms, regional Planning

10 Government control of education

Are you suggesting a flat tax, meaning a fixed percentage calculated from profits, gains and other incomes does not find its roots in the Communist Manifesto? I see taxing "incomes" as being an immoral tax in addition to the other objections I mentioned in the OP. If Ted Cruz changed his mind and rejected a flat tax calculated from profits, gains and other incomes and promoted a return to our Constitution's original tax plan, would you then change your mind too?


JWK





“…..with all these blessings, what more is necessary to make us a happy and a prosperous people? Still one thing more, fellow-citizens—a wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government, and this is necessary to close the circle of our felicities“. Thomas Jefferson, First Inaugural Address

Personally I want a flat tax charged from the first dollar to the last with no exemptions, exclusions or deductions. Everyone who earns pays, regardless of their life choices to have children, buy a home or whatever. That's the only way to get social engineering out of the tax code.

Think of what you are asking for. Businesses would immediately be bankrupted if they are not allowed to deduct necessary business expenses and outlays from gross receipts and are taxed on total receipts.


JWK






To support Jeb Bush is to support our Global Governance crowd and their WTO, NAFTA, GATT, and CAFTA, all used to circumvent America First trade policies, while fattening the fortunes of international corporate giants who have no allegiance to America or any nation.

 

[OKTexas]

Maybe you should read item 2 in the link you provided.

I read the Communist Manifesto many years ago. I take it you support taxing "incomes" like Senator Cruz?


JWK







To support Jeb Bush is to support our Global Governance crowd and their WTO, NAFTA, GATT, and CAFTA, all used to circumvent America First trade policies, while fattening the fortunes of international corporate giants who have no allegiance to America or any nation.

Try reading it again, maybe you'll actually retain it this time. And stop trying to attribute things to me I never said. Carry on.

From your link:

The Communist Manifesto
The Communist Manifesto, originally titled Manifesto of the Communist Party is a short 1848 book written by the German political theorists Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels. It has since gone down in history as one of the world's most influential political manuscripts.



Communist Manifesto Precepts
1 Abolition of private property

2 Heavy progressive income tax

3 Abolition of all rights of inheritance.

4 Confiscation of property of all emigrants and rebels.

5 Central bank

6 Government control of Communications and Transportation

7 Government ownership of factories and agriculture.

8 Government control of labor

9 Corporate farms, regional Planning

10 Government control of education

Are you suggesting a flat tax, meaning a fixed percentage calculated from profits, gains and other incomes does not find its roots in the Communist Manifesto? I see taxing "incomes" as being an immoral tax in addition to the other objections I mentioned in the OP. If Ted Cruz changed his mind and rejected a flat tax calculated from profits, gains and other incomes and promoted a return to our Constitution's original tax plan, would you then change your mind too?


JWK





“…..with all these blessings, what more is necessary to make us a happy and a prosperous people? Still one thing more, fellow-citizens—a wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government, and this is necessary to close the circle of our felicities“. Thomas Jefferson, First Inaugural Address

Personally I want a flat tax charged from the first dollar to the last with no exemptions, exclusions or deductions. Everyone who earns pays, regardless of their life choices to have children, buy a home or whatever. That's the only way to get social engineering out of the tax code.

Think of what you are asking for. Businesses would immediately be bankrupted if they are not allowed to deduct necessary business expenses and outlays from gross receipts and are taxed on total receipts.


JWK






To support Jeb Bush is to support our Global Governance crowd and their WTO, NAFTA, GATT, and CAFTA, all used to circumvent America First trade policies, while fattening the fortunes of international corporate giants who have no allegiance to America or any nation.

Actually I was talking more about personal income tax, business should always be taxed on net profits, not gross receipts.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

10% wouldn't pay our take-out Chinese bill. Do the math, for once.
Total Personal Income U.S. and All States

So, how much does the US get from personal income taxes now? Is it more than 1.9 trillion?

Less - Federal Revenue Where Does the Money Come From

So the short answer is no, they only get about 1.51 trillion from personal income taxes, so 11% would be enough. How's that for math?

Enough for what, the Fed budget is 4,000 billion. You have 1,500. Now what, smart guy?

And don't forget the deficit, another 600 billion of that 4,000.

I'm so sorry you have such a reading comprehension problem, you do realize we're talking about personal income taxes, right? I said a flat 10-12% personal income tax rate would cover what we get now and it will. If you want to start another thread on the other subjects you brought up, feel free.

What we get now doesn't pay the bills, and you don't include Payroll Taxes, which would add another 9%, making your flat 20% at best. Add in the deficit and it's 25%. Paying off the debt? Now it's 35%. The money has to come from somewhere eh?

 

[OKTexas]

So, how much does the US get from personal income taxes now? Is it more than 1.9 trillion?

Less - Federal Revenue Where Does the Money Come From

So the short answer is no, they only get about 1.51 trillion from personal income taxes, so 11% would be enough. How's that for math?

Enough for what, the Fed budget is 4,000 billion. You have 1,500. Now what, smart guy?

And don't forget the deficit, another 600 billion of that 4,000.

I'm so sorry you have such a reading comprehension problem, you do realize we're talking about personal income taxes, right? I said a flat 10-12% personal income tax rate would cover what we get now and it will. If you want to start another thread on the other subjects you brought up, feel free.

What we get now doesn't pay the bills, and you don't include Payroll Taxes, which would add another 9%, making your flat 20% at best. Add in the deficit and it's 25%. Paying off the debt? Now it's 35%. The money has to come from somewhere eh?

Yep, maybe we should go back to tariffs, you know make foreign goods more expensive and encourage American production again. They kept the country afloat a long time before income, payroll and other BS taxes.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Less - Federal Revenue Where Does the Money Come From

So the short answer is no, they only get about 1.51 trillion from personal income taxes, so 11% would be enough. How's that for math?

Enough for what, the Fed budget is 4,000 billion. You have 1,500. Now what, smart guy?

And don't forget the deficit, another 600 billion of that 4,000.

I'm so sorry you have such a reading comprehension problem, you do realize we're talking about personal income taxes, right? I said a flat 10-12% personal income tax rate would cover what we get now and it will. If you want to start another thread on the other subjects you brought up, feel free.

What we get now doesn't pay the bills, and you don't include Payroll Taxes, which would add another 9%, making your flat 20% at best. Add in the deficit and it's 25%. Paying off the debt? Now it's 35%. The money has to come from somewhere eh?

Yep, maybe we should go back to tariffs, you know make foreign goods more expensive and encourage American production again. They kept the country afloat a long time before income, payroll and other BS taxes.

So, you have no real answers then, but to reject the Free Market and Trade? Okay.

 

[OKTexas]

So the short answer is no, they only get about 1.51 trillion from personal income taxes, so 11% would be enough. How's that for math?

Enough for what, the Fed budget is 4,000 billion. You have 1,500. Now what, smart guy?

And don't forget the deficit, another 600 billion of that 4,000.

I'm so sorry you have such a reading comprehension problem, you do realize we're talking about personal income taxes, right? I said a flat 10-12% personal income tax rate would cover what we get now and it will. If you want to start another thread on the other subjects you brought up, feel free.

What we get now doesn't pay the bills, and you don't include Payroll Taxes, which would add another 9%, making your flat 20% at best. Add in the deficit and it's 25%. Paying off the debt? Now it's 35%. The money has to come from somewhere eh?

Yep, maybe we should go back to tariffs, you know make foreign goods more expensive and encourage American production again. They kept the country afloat a long time before income, payroll and other BS taxes.

So, you have no real answers then, but to reject the Free Market and Trade? Okay.

Don;t give me that shit, we've come up on the short end of virtually every trade deal we've ever entered in. There is no free market, the feds make damn sure of that.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Enough for what, the Fed budget is 4,000 billion. You have 1,500. Now what, smart guy?

And don't forget the deficit, another 600 billion of that 4,000.

I'm so sorry you have such a reading comprehension problem, you do realize we're talking about personal income taxes, right? I said a flat 10-12% personal income tax rate would cover what we get now and it will. If you want to start another thread on the other subjects you brought up, feel free.

What we get now doesn't pay the bills, and you don't include Payroll Taxes, which would add another 9%, making your flat 20% at best. Add in the deficit and it's 25%. Paying off the debt? Now it's 35%. The money has to come from somewhere eh?

Yep, maybe we should go back to tariffs, you know make foreign goods more expensive and encourage American production again. They kept the country afloat a long time before income, payroll and other BS taxes.

So, you have no real answers then, but to reject the Free Market and Trade? Okay.

Don;t give me that shit, we've come up on the short end of virtually every trade deal we've ever entered in. There is no free market, the feds make damn sure of that.

Your opinions are noted, and rejected as the nonsense they mostly are. Capitalism is not patriotic. Now you know.

If you can show us how you would balance the budget, and start paying off the debt, with a flat tax, please do.

 

[OKTexas]

I'm so sorry you have such a reading comprehension problem, you do realize we're talking about personal income taxes, right? I said a flat 10-12% personal income tax rate would cover what we get now and it will. If you want to start another thread on the other subjects you brought up, feel free.

What we get now doesn't pay the bills, and you don't include Payroll Taxes, which would add another 9%, making your flat 20% at best. Add in the deficit and it's 25%. Paying off the debt? Now it's 35%. The money has to come from somewhere eh?

Yep, maybe we should go back to tariffs, you know make foreign goods more expensive and encourage American production again. They kept the country afloat a long time before income, payroll and other BS taxes.

So, you have no real answers then, but to reject the Free Market and Trade? Okay.

Don;t give me that shit, we've come up on the short end of virtually every trade deal we've ever entered in. There is no free market, the feds make damn sure of that.

Your opinions are noted, and rejected as the nonsense they mostly are. Capitalism is not patriotic. Now you know.

If you can show us how you would balance the budget, and start paying off the debt, with a flat tax, please do.

Sure I will, just as soon as you do the same with the current system and find a way to treat every worker equally.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

What we get now doesn't pay the bills, and you don't include Payroll Taxes, which would add another 9%, making your flat 20% at best. Add in the deficit and it's 25%. Paying off the debt? Now it's 35%. The money has to come from somewhere eh?

Yep, maybe we should go back to tariffs, you know make foreign goods more expensive and encourage American production again. They kept the country afloat a long time before income, payroll and other BS taxes.

So, you have no real answers then, but to reject the Free Market and Trade? Okay.

Don;t give me that shit, we've come up on the short end of virtually every trade deal we've ever entered in. There is no free market, the feds make damn sure of that.

Your opinions are noted, and rejected as the nonsense they mostly are. Capitalism is not patriotic. Now you know.

If you can show us how you would balance the budget, and start paying off the debt, with a flat tax, please do.

Sure I will, just as soon as you do the same with the current system and find a way to treat every worker equally.

The current system is capitalism, and in it there is no such thing. There is no such thing as a Middle Class, at least not a large one.

 

[OKTexas]

Yep, maybe we should go back to tariffs, you know make foreign goods more expensive and encourage American production again. They kept the country afloat a long time before income, payroll and other BS taxes.

So, you have no real answers then, but to reject the Free Market and Trade? Okay.

Don;t give me that shit, we've come up on the short end of virtually every trade deal we've ever entered in. There is no free market, the feds make damn sure of that.

Your opinions are noted, and rejected as the nonsense they mostly are. Capitalism is not patriotic. Now you know.

If you can show us how you would balance the budget, and start paying off the debt, with a flat tax, please do.

Sure I will, just as soon as you do the same with the current system and find a way to treat every worker equally.

The current system is capitalism, and in it there is no such thing. There is no such thing as a Middle Class, at least not a large one.

Deflection noted, we were talking about personal income taxes, you can't seem to stay on point so just go away, I am.