Seasonal flu and Novel H1N1 Vaccination Recommendations

[geauxtohell]

while i do agree that the CDC did over hype it, i dont think taking the flu shot is some huge government conspiracy to give you mind control or a bio-weapon deal

I don't think they ove-hyped it at all. The media certainly did, but they always do. The CDC, if you read what they were actually saying, was pretty pragmatic.

Also, this virus was bad. I was on a rotation and doing med-surge at the time (inpatient) and the entire floor was swamped with Flu A. We had incidents were we'd be admitting 10-15 people from the same nursing home for mini epidemics.

In the end, the CDC's preventative measures (to include simple stuff like hygiene) could be what prevented the swine flu from becoming a big problem.

As I said, it's ironic. The better they do their job, the more they are accused of being sensationalists.

well, let me reiterate, the MEDIA did over hype it, likely more so than the CDC
i stand corrected

Oh, there was definitely hype. That's why, for matters of science, I go to the scientists and not the media. Scientists tend to be boring and "just the facts" types.

I've got to say though, In September I got to assist on an autopsy of a young man who had died of H1N1. I was only there for the anatomical part (working on the body and sectioning organs) so I never saw the complete report or the histological work, but we were seeing some novel pathologies in the body that scared the absolute shit out of me. I don't want to go into too much details, but I think that this virus in the right circumstances can be every bit as virulent and dangerous as the CDC predicted.

 

[saveliberty]

I look at it ths way. If they try to push something on you really hard like these shots, don't do it.
I don't get any of them and I get head colds every 10 or 12 yes or so. Those of my friends that do get them each year are sick . They get the flu and colds 3 or more times during the year.
Those of my friends that refuse the shots are not getting sick and when the do it is usually a cold and do not get sick each and every year like the ones who do have the shot.
Like I said, when anything is pushed hard and heavy onto you DON"T DO IT!!!

wow, you dont seem to understand the difference between a cold and the flu
and if you only get a cold once every 10 to 12 years you are too damn lucky

It's the goofy logic the CDC and medical establishment has to deal with on a regular basis.

It's a classic catch-22. I thought the CDC did a great job with the swine flu as far as preventative measures. They did such a good job that people are now claiming they hyped the matter.

If they'd done nothing and there was a massive mortality factor behind the swine flu, the same people would be screaming for their heads.

They can't win, because in the end it's not about the CDC to these people. It's just another reason to bash the "guberment".

Never mind that we've eradicated small pox world wide and polio here. Never mind that neonatal meningitis rates from Haemophilus Influenzae B have plummeted. Never mind that we can prevent deaths from rabies and tetanus now. Never mind that we can prevent spinal meningitis. Never mind that we are on the cusp of eradicating cervical cancer with the HPV shot. Never mind that we have dropped pneumonia and flu mortality in the elderly. Never mind that morbidities like sterility secondary to orchitis via a mumps infection is a thing of the past. Never mind that we will soon eradicate chickenpox in children and thus (and even more importantly) the shingles in the elderly.

Nope. Because healthy people on here "never get the flu", shots are unnecessary.

Of course, if you know anything about statistics, you know the power of a study and statement increases with the number of people involved. A number of "1" is considered statistically insignificant.

I know we don't always agree, but I know you are a conservative and I appreciate your common sense on this.

As for the "I never get sick people". Eventually you will get sick from the flu which could have been prevented from vaccination. You won't die from it, but you aren't some sort of super-human. You just have avoided the virus for one reason or the other.

...or maybe if you had the proper risk level assigned people could trust the measure and make better decisions. How long were we at level orange after 9/11? Remember, people die from the shot too. Better risk assessment please.

 

[geauxtohell]

...or maybe if you had the proper risk level assigned people could trust the measure and make better decisions. How long were we at level orange after 9/11? Remember, people die from the shot too. Better risk assessment please.

While I agree with your larger point, how do you assign a "risk level" to an airborne virus?

It's either going to be a big frigging problem or not.

 

[saveliberty]

...or maybe if you had the proper risk level assigned people could trust the measure and make better decisions. How long were we at level orange after 9/11? Remember, people die from the shot too. Better risk assessment please.

While I agree with your larger point, how do you assign a "risk level" to an airborne virus?

It's either going to be a big frigging problem or not.

Well, the CDC and WHO think you can. Looks to me like you tweak that a bit and see if it works better.

 

[THE LIGHT]

every scientific study on the topic, which prompt CBC recommendations.

let met guess: you think it's bad on a hunch?

let me guess, you think it is a hunch if it doesn't support your limited view?

No. I think it's a hunch if it isn't supported by ANY evidence. No, personal opinions are not evidence, no matter how important you think they are.

Exactly...but you say one thing and do another.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

Remember, people die from the shot too. Better risk assessment please.

When was the last time someone died from a KILLED vaccine shot? It's this type of stupidity that should be avoided.

Exactly...but you say one thing and do another.

what are you babbling about?

 

[saveliberty]

Remember, people die from the shot too. Better risk assessment please.

When was the last time someone died from a KILLED vaccine shot? It's this type of stupidity that should be avoided.

Exactly...but you say one thing and do another.

what are you babbling about?

Well stupid, here's your education:

As of late November, in Canada there had been 24 confirmed cases of anaphylactic shock following vaccination, including one death.

Overall the safety profile of the new H1N1 vaccine is similar to that of the seasonal flu vaccine, and as of November 2009 fewer than a dozen cases of Guillain-Barre syndrome had been reported post-vaccination.[81] Only a few of these are suspected to be actually related to the H1N1 vaccination, and only temporary illness has been observed.[81] This is in strong contrast to the 1976 swine flu outbreak, where mass vaccinations in the United States caused over 500 cases of Guillain-Barre syndrome and led to 25 deaths.

2009 flu pandemic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

No such thing as a zero risk from flu shots.

 

[geauxtohell]

Remember, people die from the shot too. Better risk assessment please.

When was the last time someone died from a KILLED vaccine shot? It's this type of stupidity that should be avoided.

Exactly...but you say one thing and do another.

what are you babbling about?

Well stupid, here's your education:

As of late November, in Canada there had been 24 confirmed cases of anaphylactic shock following vaccination, including one death.

Overall the safety profile of the new H1N1 vaccine is similar to that of the seasonal flu vaccine, and as of November 2009 fewer than a dozen cases of Guillain-Barre syndrome had been reported post-vaccination.[81] Only a few of these are suspected to be actually related to the H1N1 vaccination, and only temporary illness has been observed.[81] This is in strong contrast to the 1976 swine flu outbreak, where mass vaccinations in the United States caused over 500 cases of Guillain-Barre syndrome and led to 25 deaths.

2009 flu pandemic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

No such thing as a zero risk from flu shots.

GBS didn't cause anaphylaxis. That's an allergic reaction, but GBS is a potential complication of vaccination. However, your odds from getting it from infection or the flu itself are much higher.

It's an autoimmune peripheral neuropathy, so any antigenic load can trigger it.

You are right, no medical procedure or process is without risk.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

yes. you know when you get a shot and they ask you if you're allergic to eggs? Well if you say "no" when you really mean "yes" and that shot has egg components in it, anaphylaxis occurs. This has nothing to do with the influenza virus. It's an autoimmune reaction to allergies. So again I will ask: when was the last time someone died from a KILLED virus?

Every study has shown them to be safe, and as a result, largely outweigh the likely risk of actually getting the flu, a disease which hospitalizes over 200,000 and KILLS tens of thousands of non-immunized Americans every year. Compare that to the one case of natural selection where a person who decided to lie/forget about what they were allergic to.

Again, it's blinded people such as yourself who are incapable of assessing the greater risk from population wide evidence, and who instead draw conclusions on single incidence cases, that propagate ignorance in this country. But hey, I'm sure your GED or BA in communications has prepared you to second-guess the country's most highly educated and intelligent doctors and scientists.

 

[saveliberty]

yes. you know when you get a shot and they ask you if you're allergic to eggs? Well if you say "no" when you really mean "yes" and that shot has egg components in it, anaphylaxis occurs. This has nothing to do with the influenza virus. It's an autoimmune reaction to allergies. So again I will ask: when was the last time someone died from a KILLED virus?

Every study has shown them to be safe, and as a result, largely outweigh the likely risk of actually getting the flu, a disease which hospitalizes over 200,000 and KILLS tens of thousands of non-immunized Americans every year. Compare that to the one case of natural selection where a person who decided to lie/forget about what they were allergic to.

Again, it's blinded people such as yourself who are incapable of assessing the greater risk from population wide evidence, and who instead draw conclusions on single incidence cases, that propagate ignorance in this country. But hey, I'm sure your GED or BA in communications has prepared you to second-guess the country's most highly educated and intelligent doctors and scientists.

We were talking about the H1N1 shot specifically. You stated no one has died from it. You are wrong. Shifting the debate to a slightly different topic is not an accepted practice.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

The topic is exactly the same. You are claiming I am misdirecting the topic of conversation when that is not the case. Please reread geauxtohell's blurb on autoimmune peripheral neuropathy, or educate yourself with a little Wikipedia searching.

 

[geauxtohell]

The topic is exactly the same. You are claiming I am misdirecting the topic of conversation when that is not the case. Please reread geauxtohell's blurb on autoimmune peripheral neuropathy, or educate yourself with a little Wikipedia searching.

And GBS is typically self-limiting and can definitely be managed with IVIG with complete resolution. Though, in a few very rare cases, it becomes a chronic, life-long, debilitating illness. That is why "vaccine court" exists.

All in all, the hype about the dangers of vaccines for people who are not immunodeficient or other considerations (pregnant) are just that.

 

[Emma]

The first head-to-head study comparing swine flu vaccines in Britain found that children given a shot containing a booster, or adjuvant, had a stronger immune response than those receiving one without it.


GlaxoSmithKline's vaccine Pandemrix, containing the adjuvant AS03, was associated with more reactions than Baxter's Celvapan but experts said the somewhat higher rate of fevers and injection site irritations was not a major concern.

The use of adjuvants, which are designed to boost the body's response to a vaccine, has divided health authorities in Europe and the United States.

They were widely used in Europe last year to deal with the H1N1 swine flu pandemic. In the United States, however, officials stuck with the standard unadjuvanted formulation used in seasonal flu vaccines.

"I think this data is reassuring for countries such as the U.S. which haven't approved the use of adjuvants for influenza vaccines," researcher Dr Matthew Snape of the Oxford Vaccine Group at Oxford University said in a telephone interview.

Glaxo adjuvanted H1N1 shot scores top in children | Reuters

 

[jessica]

No matter what time of year it is, germs are everywhere and anywhere a person could visibly investigate with their eyes. And even more could be lurking where they don’t check or can’t see. For those who frequently leave the home or for busy families, the chances of being exposed to these germs increases greatly. Germs never take a day off, and they never go on vacation, so anyone looking to avoid germs should not let down their guard for even a second if they want to avoid getting sick.

Believe it or not, the places that people most assume are festering with germs, such as public toilets and Port-a-Potties, are actually the places you would find the least problems. At least, in comparison other areas. Elevator buttons, ATM machines, playground equipment, door handles, etc. are actually some of the prime places to find germs on the surfaces, even though they can’t be seen with the naked eye.

Flu Season is Ending but Germs Are Still Everywhere

 

[geauxtohell]

Believe it or not, the places that people most assume are festering with germs, such as public toilets and Port-a-Potties, are actually the places you would find the least problems. At least, in comparison other areas. Elevator buttons, ATM machines, playground equipment, door handles, etc. are actually some of the prime places to find germs on the surfaces, even though they can’t be seen with the naked eye.

Flu Season is Ending but Germs Are Still Everywhere

Or a Doctor's Tie. It's an article of clothing that goes from patient to patient and different bug to different bug and carries germs. Any article of clothing does that, but think about this: how often does a man get his ties cleaned?

Probably the biggest fomite out there. Not that it stops our hospital from making us wear them on the floor.

grumble grumble grumble.......

 

[SmarterThanHick]

true, but it's becoming increasingly more optional. you could always go bow-tie!

 

[kal-el]

I personally would never get a flu vaccine or any other. There are several strains of the flu, and getting a flu shot DOES NOT EVER guarantee that you will never get the flu, as it can’t possibly protect against every single strain. The companies that mass produce the vaccine probably just play the game of “rock, paper and scissors” and guess what strains will be the most prevalent the following flu season, thus manufacture a concoction of those types. Even if you do get the flu vaccine, you’re only protected against the types of strains that the pharmaceutical company thinks will flourish the said season.

Most times I would just rather let good old nature take its course. If I end up getting the flu and get real sick for three or so weeks so be it. Injecting myself with identified toxins does not outweigh the benefits of not getting the flu- and it’s not even an assurance that I won’t!

The vaccine itself compromises your immune system in so many ways its not even funny. Do an internet search on the ingredients in the shot. Mercury Preservative Thimerosal. In 1999 the FDA decided to drop the use of thimerosal in childhood vaccines; that action alone speaks volumes on its safety concern.

I am pretty certain that a person's state of mind and general outlook can help his or her health. The truth is you can pick up a cold by simply being around someone who is infected, even for a minute. When I was younger, I was a lot more satisfied then I am currently about the things I need to do in order to remain healthy, but I am older and I feel wiser, more in tune with my body; same game, different player. I am wary anytime the government wants me to do something/take something. But if someone is in a high risk group, or has a compromised immune system, ie., or any other disease that can abate your immune system, if you are elderly, and if you are a health care worker, then it might be in your best interests to get “vaccinated.” In that case make sure it is mercury-free. I remember the first year I refused a flu shot, everyone that was around me got sick, except I. The only negative thing is I got a bad case of runny nose that lasted months.
You see being is that these shots do not protect against every strain of the flu, you must ask yourself why should I even bother. Our bodies were designed to keep at bay and fight germs but we don't let our bodies do their job. We simply rely on synthetic chemicals and anticipate the best. Let your body do the job it was made to do. Nowadays too many people are looking for the “quick-fix” or the “miracle pill” that will solvent everything. For example, if you are stricken with a bad cold, you probably have been told to run to the pharmacy and pick up some “Tylenol Cold and Flu” or any other cold remedy. You might have to dose yourself with these pills for a week or two, up to three times a day. Well, you can simply take Allicin; a garlic extract once a day for about the same time and your symptoms will probably vanish faster than a prom queen’s virginity on prom night. With that Tylenol, there’s a surplus of known side effects listed on the reverse of the package. What do you think would happen if you took the entire package of Tylenol? The result wouldn’t be good, I can guarantee. That’s why you cannot go wrong with anything natural- no terrible side effects.

There’s little to no money to be made by coaxing people into taking a proactive approach to their lifestyle, instead the pharmaceutical companies spoonfeed us a campaign of disinformation, instructing us to inject our bodies with toxins, and the naïve and misinformed eat it all up with an open mouth. It’s a wonder why so many people get sick. Personally, I can’t fathom the concept of injecting something foreign into my body (especially if I don’t need it) when we are provided so many totally natural remedies and immune builders. Many people undervalue the healing power of our bodies.

That last sentence I typed made my feel a bit hypocritical, as I am type 1 diabetic, and must take daily insulin injections. There's no way around them when your pancreas doesn't do it's job. Anywho, that's my dos centavos on the "flu shot."

 

[AllieBaba]

When was the last time someone died from a KILLED vaccine shot? It's this type of stupidity that should be avoided.



what are you babbling about?

Well stupid, here's your education:

As of late November, in Canada there had been 24 confirmed cases of anaphylactic shock following vaccination, including one death.

Overall the safety profile of the new H1N1 vaccine is similar to that of the seasonal flu vaccine, and as of November 2009 fewer than a dozen cases of Guillain-Barre syndrome had been reported post-vaccination.[81] Only a few of these are suspected to be actually related to the H1N1 vaccination, and only temporary illness has been observed.[81] This is in strong contrast to the 1976 swine flu outbreak, where mass vaccinations in the United States caused over 500 cases of Guillain-Barre syndrome and led to 25 deaths.

2009 flu pandemic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

No such thing as a zero risk from flu shots.

GBS didn't cause anaphylaxis. That's an allergic reaction, but GBS is a potential complication of vaccination. However, your odds from getting it from infection or the flu itself are much higher.

It's an autoimmune peripheral neuropathy, so any antigenic load can trigger it.

You are right, no medical procedure or process is without risk.

This is why when you get your kids' shots, you are given a stack of papers. A release, a list of risks, and questions regarding allergies and other conditions.

You don't read the paperwork and it turns out your kid is allergic to (for example) eggs, and goes into shock, whose fault is it?

 

[AllieBaba]

Believe it or not, the places that people most assume are festering with germs, such as public toilets and Port-a-Potties, are actually the places you would find the least problems. At least, in comparison other areas. Elevator buttons, ATM machines, playground equipment, door handles, etc. are actually some of the prime places to find germs on the surfaces, even though they can’t be seen with the naked eye.

Flu Season is Ending but Germs Are Still Everywhere

Or a Doctor's Tie. It's an article of clothing that goes from patient to patient and different bug to different bug and carries germs. Any article of clothing does that, but think about this: how often does a man get his ties cleaned?

Probably the biggest fomite out there. Not that it stops our hospital from making us wear them on the floor.

grumble grumble grumble.......

Ewww...

And regarding the rest of the post, I am insane about not touching things inside public restrooms. PARTICULARLY the doors, faucets and towel machines. And soap dispensers. Yuck!

 

[kal-el]

I am insane about not touching things inside public restrooms. PARTICULARLY the doors, faucets and towel machines. And soap dispensers. Yuck!

Yep, even if you do roll the dice and get a flu vaccine, if you so much as turn a door nob that an infected person turned, there's a good chance you will get sick.