scoped M4= 3x the range of 12ga slug, 2x = 45-70 or PCC

[prison/con.net]

pistol caliber carbines, 50% more than the .30Ak or 30-30. But "somehow" the M4 is "shortranged" and when others propose those other choices for shtf, those are "ok", but the M4 is not? It's SUCH an advantage to be able to hit running rabbits and flying birds with the shotgun, but it's not an advantage to be able to QUIETLY take them with the AR's .22lr conversion unit, 223 silencer and subsonic 60 gr .22 ammo? It's not an advantage to have 10-12x as much ammo to carry with your (ie, 22lr vs 12 ga).? It's not an advantage to have dark, corrosion resistant finish, threaded muzzle, ability to see over a silencer, have a chromed bore and chamber? It means nothing to be able to buy just a stripped lower, especially a PISTOL lower receiver, and if shtf, just add the buttstock? It means nothing to have a concealable rifle for shtf, or have a rifle that fires. the most commonly available calibers? It's not an advantage to have luminous sights, QD, return to zero scope mount, see thru scope base? It's not an advantage to have a way to mount a weapon light, or night scope or laser target designator. Not an advtantage to have a drop in trigger job and ambi-safety? Not an advantage to have tracer and Kevlar piercing ammo available? Not an advantage to have a lw, compact rifle, usable with just one arm? Not an advantage to have lw, compact ammo? Really wonderful, shtf, to have lots of "power' in your rifle, and little or no ammo for it, eh? Make lots of noise, scare off the game and call in your killers! Go for it.

 

[prison/con.net]

I can hunt varmints, small game, and win matches all year with the AR and .22 unit, plink quietly and at low cost, be welcome at indoor ranges. You're not going to do that with 45-70, 12 ga, 30-30 nor 308, folks. For $300, I can get a spare, longer barreled AR upper, in the mail, no dealer, no sales tax, to give me 600 yd capability, if I want it. I can get an AR lower in the mail, no dealer, no sales tax, by means of buying an Ares Armor 80% finished lower receiver, and have an AR that nobody else knows that I have. The Ares is an EXPENSIVE lower, since you also gotta have access to a bench mounted drill press ($60 a Harbor Freight tools) and some cutters with which to finish the machining on the receiver. But hey, a couple of years ago, finished lowers were selling for $300.

 

[WinterBorn]

Has anyone said the AR is a bad weapon? Or have people argued against your "all other guns are stupid" comments?

Several years ago I had an AR that I built for hunting coyote. It did its job very well. I am just not a fan of the pistol grip rifles. I made a few bucks when I sold it.

And I have taken my 45-70 and my .308 to plenty of indoor ranges. I was always welcome.

You might consider joining an actual discussion. There are some people on here that have some pretty extensive knowledge.

 

[9thIDdoc]

pistol caliber carbines, 50% more than the .30Ak or 30-30=untrue
It's SUCH an advantage to be able to hit running rabbits and flying birds with the shotgun, but it's not an advantage to be able to QUIETLY take them with the AR's .22lr conversion unit, 223 silencer and subsonic 60 gr .22 ammo?= Willing to bet serious money you couldn't hit a running rabbit or flying bird with a .22lr.
It's not an advantage to have 10-12x as much ammo to carry with your (ie, 22lr vs 12 ga).? No.
It's not an advantage to have dark, corrosion resistant finish, threaded muzzle, ability to see over a silencer, have a chromed bore and chamber? No.
It means nothing to be able to buy just a stripped lower, especially a PISTOL lower receiver, and if shtf, just add the buttstock? No, because you can do the same with any number of pistols and revolvers in all sorts of calibers without having to add an upper.
It's not an advantage to have luminous sights, QD, return to zero scope mount, see thru scope base? No,because those features can be had-or added to-most rifles. And the same is true with the other features you go on to mention and you can get them in much more lethal chamberings.

 

[WinterBorn]

Prison/con, you make it sound like everyone is arguing about whether the AR is a good rifle or not. That is not true.

Look at the thread that HerWeGoAgain started about his AR build. The only one with anything negative to say was you. Westwall has a nicely dressed AR too. No doubt others have ARs as well.

If you try not to be such a condescending asshole, you might find yourself in some good discussions with knowledgeable people.

 

[prison/con.net]

scoped M4, with match bthp ammo has more effective range, vs men, than military clunker enfields, or mausers, much less Mosins, using ball ammo in the latter. Therefore, since so many are CONVINCED that such clunkers have "plenty of range' for shtf, then the M4 has plenty of range, And, since those pos have no rapidfire and no silencer, the suppressed M4 user (with luminous sights) is many MANY times safer in hostile conditions

 

[9thIDdoc]

"...military clunker enfields, or mausers, much less Mosins, using ball ammo in the latter...".

Sorry, all of those have greater effective range.

 

[WinterBorn]

scoped M4, with match bthp ammo has more effective range, vs men, than military clunker enfields, or mausers, much less Mosins, using ball ammo in the latter. Therefore, since so many are CONVINCED that such clunkers have "plenty of range' for shtf, then the M4 has plenty of range, And, since those pos have no rapidfire and no silencer, the suppressed M4 user (with luminous sights) is many MANY times safer in hostile conditions

Once again, you want to compare your AR using match ammo with other rifles using ball ammo. You know as well as I do that ball ammo is crap. Why not compare the AR using ball ammo?

And yes, the AR is superior as a battle rifle to the Enfield. But then, when you dress it out as you have described you are looking at $1,500 or so. I can buy an Enfield for $250 or $300. So I can buy 5 Enfields for the price of your AR. That means 5 armed people in your SHTF group. I have hunted deer with an Enfield. It was heavy, but that .303 British round put the deer on the ground without question.