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You dumb lying fuck.Lol. This is you trying to change the subject. My carbon footprint is no different then yours but I am to blame. Your external locus of control is off the chart.
Not trying to change the subject. How much is my carbon footprint? And why do you see nothing by little rays of sunshine when it comes to the petroleum industry As I said, partisan hack. Nothing more.
Who cares. CO2 is the fundamental building block of all life on this planet. If you were able to somehow, magically, drop the atmospheric concentration down to 200 ppm NOTHING would grow. And life, as we know it, would end. That's how narrow a range we have to exist in.
No, dumb ass, it was you 'Conservatives' that nearly did in the raptors with your insistence that DDT had nothing to do with the mortality of those birds.
Estimated?...as in a model designed to provide evidence for a pre determined claim?...
Tell me, how many species are going to be driven to extinction by any of the above except windmills and solar?...How many species of raptor are you willing to see go extinct before you change your mind about wind..or would you willingly see all of them gone before you give up that stupidity?
Boy, talk about ridiculous propaganda from a lying fuck. Mr. Westwall, you are truly outdoing yourself tonight.I did not realize I had that much power. Let me get right on that. I hereby banish all burning of fossil fuels so that dr gump can sleep at night with a clear conscience
Ding: "Oh, petroleum how I love thee. May your plastic-bag making qualities and CO2, smog-causing ability be here and now and for ever more. I see nothing wrong with thee! If I find those that criticise your existence I shall smite them with sarcasm and shower them with the inability to see how wonderful your are. May your by-product forever choke the big cities of the world and pollute our waterways! I shall forever love thee and line my pockets with blood money and have my snout in the trough of ignorance."
Do you even realize that manufacturing windmills, and solar modules are incredibly carbon intensive? There is NO net lowering of CO 2 levels from their use because there is so much CO2 expended in their manufacture that the claim they are green is laughable. Add to that the enormous amount of toxins that are created in the solar module production and your so called "green" energy is everything but green.
It is better for the environment to buy and drive a Ford F-150 pickup than it is to buy and operate a Toyota Prius. That is a fact. It is you who are spouting ridiculous propaganda.
An industry that keeps doubling in sizeThat's not true at all. You get 16 times more energy from a windmill than the energy used to manufacture it.Do you even realize that manufacturing windmills, and solar modules are incredibly carbon intensive? There is NO net lowering of CO 2 levels from their use because there is so much CO2 expended in their manufacture that the claim they are green is laughable. Add to that the enormous amount of toxins that are created in the solar module production and your so called "green" energy is everything but green.
You get 19 times more energy from concentrated solar than the energy used to manufacture it.
These numbers are amortized over the life of the system.
EROI -- A Tool To Predict The Best Energy Mix
Sheer and utter bullshit. The reality is the payback for the overwhelming majority of windmills is greater than their lifetimes. Below is one of MANY stories that tell the truth about the hogwash that is windmill propaganda.
"Today, the Sousas say the turbines have required several repairs, including a mechanical malfunction that's stopped one turbine from spinning. Meanwhile, the windmills have generated only about 365 kilowatt hours of power over three years a fraction of the energy they were hoping to generate. There will be no payoff in their lifetimes.
"So, I'm out $23,000, and all they are is a yard decoration," Albert Sousa told the Reno Gazette-Journal while standing beneath the 30-foot spires next to a backyard chicken coop. "They're no good at all."
Some Nevada wind power users say returns lacking
Pervasive misunderstanding of the true cost and value of electricity from wind
True Cost of Electricity from Wind Is Always Underestimated and Its Value Is Always Overestimated
Payback in terms of $ and energy needed to build are two different things.You claimed that you get 16 times more energy than is used to produce it. That is a lie. If it were true the payback time would be three years or less.
Hell, Ding, horse wranglers were once in demand, also.What part of I am not defending my industry do you not understand?Yes. I believe you are a hypocrite.I haven't been defending my industry. I have been attacking your hypocrisy. Go take your car for a drive and relax. The sky is not falling.
Where have I said you shouldn't drive cars? You think because I think the petroleum industry has negative issues that I'm a hypocrite for driving? Sorry, not that simple. We have emission standards. We have fines for cars with leaky exhausts or blowing smoke. As long as my car meets those standards I'm happy. The day I drive a car that is blowing smoke into the atmosphere and I don't give a fuck, and bitch to you about your industry, is the day I'm a hypocrite.
Obviously don't know the meaning of the word. I know you can't defend the negative aspects of your industry. No harm, no foul.
Payback in terms of $ and energy needed to build are two different things.You claimed that you get 16 times more energy than is used to produce it. That is a lie. If it were true the payback time would be three years or less.
An industry that keeps doubling in sizeThat's not true at all. You get 16 times more energy from a windmill than the energy used to manufacture it.Do you even realize that manufacturing windmills, and solar modules are incredibly carbon intensive? There is NO net lowering of CO 2 levels from their use because there is so much CO2 expended in their manufacture that the claim they are green is laughable. Add to that the enormous amount of toxins that are created in the solar module production and your so called "green" energy is everything but green.
You get 19 times more energy from concentrated solar than the energy used to manufacture it.
These numbers are amortized over the life of the system.
EROI -- A Tool To Predict The Best Energy Mix
Sheer and utter bullshit. The reality is the payback for the overwhelming majority of windmills is greater than their lifetimes. Below is one of MANY stories that tell the truth about the hogwash that is windmill propaganda.
"Today, the Sousas say the turbines have required several repairs, including a mechanical malfunction that's stopped one turbine from spinning. Meanwhile, the windmills have generated only about 365 kilowatt hours of power over three years a fraction of the energy they were hoping to generate. There will be no payoff in their lifetimes.
"So, I'm out $23,000, and all they are is a yard decoration," Albert Sousa told the Reno Gazette-Journal while standing beneath the 30-foot spires next to a backyard chicken coop. "They're no good at all."
Some Nevada wind power users say returns lacking
Pervasive misunderstanding of the true cost and value of electricity from wind
True Cost of Electricity from Wind Is Always Underestimated and Its Value Is Always Overestimated
Wind and Solar Are Crushing Fossil Fuels
Sure, Mr. Stupid Westwall. That is why wind and solar are shutting down coal.
What is really vanishingly small is a brain trying to defend the use of coal now that it is a very expensive form of energy with so many externalities.An industry that keeps doubling in sizeThat's not true at all. You get 16 times more energy from a windmill than the energy used to manufacture it.Do you even realize that manufacturing windmills, and solar modules are incredibly carbon intensive? There is NO net lowering of CO 2 levels from their use because there is so much CO2 expended in their manufacture that the claim they are green is laughable. Add to that the enormous amount of toxins that are created in the solar module production and your so called "green" energy is everything but green.
You get 19 times more energy from concentrated solar than the energy used to manufacture it.
These numbers are amortized over the life of the system.
EROI -- A Tool To Predict The Best Energy Mix
Sheer and utter bullshit. The reality is the payback for the overwhelming majority of windmills is greater than their lifetimes. Below is one of MANY stories that tell the truth about the hogwash that is windmill propaganda.
"Today, the Sousas say the turbines have required several repairs, including a mechanical malfunction that's stopped one turbine from spinning. Meanwhile, the windmills have generated only about 365 kilowatt hours of power over three years a fraction of the energy they were hoping to generate. There will be no payoff in their lifetimes.
"So, I'm out $23,000, and all they are is a yard decoration," Albert Sousa told the Reno Gazette-Journal while standing beneath the 30-foot spires next to a backyard chicken coop. "They're no good at all."
Some Nevada wind power users say returns lacking
Pervasive misunderstanding of the true cost and value of electricity from wind
True Cost of Electricity from Wind Is Always Underestimated and Its Value Is Always Overestimated
Wind and Solar Are Crushing Fossil Fuels
Sure, Mr. Stupid Westwall. That is why wind and solar are shutting down coal.
It's easy to "double" in size when it is so vanishingly small to begin with.
No, dumb ass, it was you 'Conservatives' that nearly did in the raptors with your insistence that DDT had nothing to do with the mortality of those birds.
Payback and energy needed to build are related, but not equal.Payback in terms of $ and energy needed to build are two different things.You claimed that you get 16 times more energy than is used to produce it. That is a lie. If it were true the payback time would be three years or less.
No, they're not. You can't have the one without the other.
Although I disagree with her philosophy of objectivism I have more respect for her than I do for you. You are a fanatic. She was a pragmatist.
That is an amazingly accurate way of describing many of the posters here. It's hard to know if they are forgetful or just trolls.Climate myths are like zombies – you shoot them through the heart, walk away thinking they’re dead, and then they pop back up behind you and try once again to eat your brain.
That is an amazingly accurate way of describing many of the posters here. It's hard to know if they are forgetful or just trolls.Climate myths are like zombies – you shoot them through the heart, walk away thinking they’re dead, and then they pop back up behind you and try once again to eat your brain.
Very good. Except you listed not one live link with all your list of papers.No, dumb ass, it was you 'Conservatives' that nearly did in the raptors with your insistence that DDT had nothing to do with the mortality of those birds.
And the bullshit continues....Rachel Carson was a fraud and a liar and has the deaths of literally hundreds of millions on her head...but she was a socialist so people like you jumped right on her bandwagon and you share in those deaths...
Bald eagles were reportedly threatened with extinction in 1921 — 25 years before widespread use of DDT. [Van Name, WG. 1921. Ecology 2:76]
The bald eagle had vanished from New England by 1937. [Bent, AC. 1937. Raptorial Birds of America. US National Museum Bull 167:321-349]
After 15 years of heavy and widespread usage of DDT, Audubon Society ornithologists counted 25 percent more eagles per observer in 1960 than during the pre-DDT 1941 bird census. [Marvin, PH. 1964 Birds on the rise. Bull Entomol Soc Amer 10(3):184-186; Wurster, CF. 1969 Congressional Record S4599, May 5, 1969; Anon. 1942. The 42nd Annual Christmas Bird Census. Audubon Magazine 44:1-75 (Jan/Feb 1942; Cruickshank, AD (Editor). 1961. The 61st Annual Christmas Bird Census. Audubon Field Notes 15(2):84-300; White-Stevens, R.. 1972. Statistical analyses of Audubon Christmas Bird censuses. Letter to New York Times, August 15, 1972]
No significant correlation between DDE residues and shell thickness was reported in a large series of bald eagle eggs. [Postupalsky, S. 1971. (DDE residues and shell thickness). Canadian Wildlife Service manuscript, April 8, 1971]
Thickness of eggshells from Florida, Maine and Wisconsin was found to not be correlated with DDT residues.
Data from Krantz, WC. 1970. Pesticides Monitoring Journal4(3):136-140.
State Thickness (mm) DDE residue (ppm)
Florida 0.50 About 10
Maine 0.53 About 22
Wisconsin 0.55 About 4
U.S. Forest Service studies reported an increase in nesting bald eagle productivity (51 in 1964 to 107 in 1970). [U.S. Forest Service (Milwaukee, WI). 1970. Annual Report on Bald Eagle Status]
U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service biologists fed large doses of DDT to captive bald eagles for 112 days and concluded that “DDT residues encountered by eagles in the environment would not adversely affect eagles or their eggs.” [Stickel, L. 1966. Bald eagle-pesticide relationships. Trans 31st N Amer Wildlife Conference, pp.190-200]
Wildlife authorities attributed bald eagle population reductions to a “widespread loss of suitable habitat”, but noted that “illegal shooting continues to be the leading cause of direct mortality in both adult and immature bald eagles.” [Anon.. 1978. U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, Endangered Species Tech Bull 3:8-9]
Every bald eagle found dead in the U.S., between 1961-1977 (266 birds) was analyzed by U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service biologists who reported no adverse effects caused by DDT or its residues. [Reichel, WL. 1969. (Pesticide residues in 45 bald eagles found dead in the U.S. 1964-1965). Pesticides Monitoring J 3(3)142-144; Belisle, AA. 1972. (Pesticide residues and PCBs and mercury, in bald eagles found dead in the U.S. 1969-1970). Pesticides Monitoring J 6(3): 133-138; Cromartie, E. 1974. (Organochlorine pesticides and PCBs in 37 bald eagles found dead in the U.S. 1971-1972). Pesticides Monitoring J 9:11-14; Coon, NC. 1970. (Causes of bald eagle mortality in the US 1960-1065). Journal of Wildlife Diseases 6:72-76]
U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service biologists linked high intake of mercury from contaminated fish with eagle reproductive problems. [Spann, JW, RG Heath, JF Kreitzer, LN Locke. 1972. (Lethal and reproductive effects of mercury on birds) Science 175:328- 331]
The decline in the U.S. peregrine falcon population occurred long before the DDT years. [Hickey JJ. 1942. (Only 170 pairs of peregrines in eastern U.S. in 1940) Auk 59:176; Hickey JJ. 1971 Testimony at DDT hearings before EPA hearing examiner. (350 pre-DDT peregrines claimed in eastern U.S., with 28 of the females sterile); and Beebe FL. 1971. The Myth of the Vanishing Peregrine Falcon: A study in manipulation of public and official attitudes. Canadian Raptor Society Publication, 31 pages]
Peregrine falcons were deemed undesirable in the early 20th century. Dr. William Hornaday of the New York Zoological Society referred to them as birds that “deserve death, but are so rare that we need not take them into account.” [Hornaday, WT. 1913. Our Vanishing Wild Life. New York Zoological Society, p. 226]
Oologists amassed great collections of falcon eggs. [Peterson, RT. 1948. Birds Over American, Dodd Mead & Co., NY, pp 135-151; Rice, JN. 1969. In Peregrine Falcon Populations, Univ. Of Wisconsin Press, pp 155-164; Berger, DD. 1969. In Peregrine Falcon Populations, Univ. Of Wisconsin Press, pp 165-173]
The decline in falcons along the Hudson River was attributed to falconers, egg collectors, pigeon fanciers and disturbance by construction workers and others. [Herbert, RA and KG Herbert. 1969. In Peregrine Falcon Populations, Univ. Of Wisconsin Press, pp 133- 154. (Also in Auk 82: 62-94)]
The 1950’s and 1960’s saw continuing harassment trapping brooding birds in their nests, removing fat samples for analysis and operating time-lapse cameras beside the nests for extended periods of time), predation and habitat destruction. [Hazeltine, WE. 1972. Statement before Secretary of State’s Advisory Committee on United Nations Conference on the Human Environment, March 16, 1972; Enderson, JH and DD Berger. 1968. (Chlorinated hydrocarbons in peregrines from Northern Canada). Condor 70:149-153; Enderson, JH.. 1972. (Time lapse photography inperegrine nests) Living Bird 11: 113- 128; Risebrough, RW. 1970. (Organochlorines in peregrines and merlins migrating through Wisconsin). Canadian Field-Naturalist 84:247-253]
Falconers were blamed for decimating western populations. [Herman, S. 1969. Peregrine Falcon Populations, University of Wisconsin Press]
During the 1960’s, peregrines in northern Canada were “reproducing normally,” even though they contained 30 times more DDT, DDD, and DDE than the midwestern peregrines that were allegedly extirpated by those chemicals. [Enderson, JH and DD Berger. 1968. (Chlorinated hydrocarbons in peregrines from Northern Canada) Condor 70:170-178]
There was no decline in peregrine falcon pairs in Canada and Alaska between 1950 and 1967 despite the presence of DDT and DDE. [Fyfe, RW. 1959. Peregrine Falcon Populations, pp 101-114; and Fyfe, RW. 1968. Auk 85: 383-384]
The peregrine with the very highest DDT residue (2,435 parts per million) was found feeding three healthy young. [Enderson, JH. 1968. (Pesticide residues in Alaska and Yukon Territory) Auk 85: 683]
Shooting, egg collecting, falconry and disruption of nesting birds along the Yukon River and Colville River were reported to be the cause of the decline in peregrine falcon population.[Beebe, FL. 1971. The Myth of the Vanishing Peregrine Falcon: A study in manipulation of public and official attitudes. Canadian Raptor Society Publication, 31 pages; and Beebe, FL. 1975. Brit Columbia Provincial Museum Occas. Paper No. 17, pages 126-144]
The decline in British peregrine falcons ended by 1966, though DDT was as abundant as ever. The Federal Advisory Committee on Pesticides concluded “There is no close correlation between the declines in populations of predatory birds, particularly the peregrine falcon and the sparrow hawk, and the use of DDT.” [Wilson report. 1969. Review of Organochlorine pesticides in Britain. Report by the Advisory Committee on toxic chemicals. Department of Education and Science]
During 1940-1945, the British Air Ministry shot about 600 peregrines (half the pre-1939 level) to protect carrier pigeons.
Peregrine falcon and sparrow hawk egg shells thinned in Britain prior to the use of DDT. [Redcliff, DH. 1967. Nature 215: 208-210; Redcliff, DH. 1970 J Applied Biology 7:67; and Redcliff, DH. 1967. Nature 215: 208-210]
Do you believe the world is not getting warmer?
