Same-Sex Marriage

[AllieBaba]

The one and only problem with gay marriage is that it undermines traditional values. When you attack the structure of the traditional value, when you challenge Christian values, you are attacking the basic structure of our society and that weakens it.

The sexual revolution of the 60s-80s did nothing except create a vacuum for people. There were no benefits whatsoever to the "free love" era, it led to nothing except drug abuse, the spread of sexual disease and a whole generation of lost children who struggle to this day with issues regarding structure, contentment and goal setting. The "me" generation did nothing except create a multitude of unhappy children who grew into unhappy adults and who think the government is the answer to every answer.

I don't hate gays, I've had many good friends who are gay. But I don't want my children to be gay because of the heartbreak and the closed doors they will encounter as a result. I don't want them to be gay because I don't want their children to deal with the unhappiness of their gay parent, and I don't want their children to be confused about their sexual identity.

There's something to be said for morality and the protection of the traditional family unit. You mess with that, you're messing with the fabric of society and I think it's pretty obvious it doesn't have positive results.

 

[sky dancer]

Nonsense. Todays 'traditional family unit' consists of one parent families, step families, families with adopted children, and families with two moms or two dads.

Gay families do not undermine your idea of 'traditional' families as composed of your bias--one husband and one wife. We just want to live in peace and be able to take care of our own, just as you do.

 

[KittenKoder]

Considering 'traditional marriage' entailed incest, polygamy, and never even included love.

 

[AllieBaba]

Really? Got some stats to prove that? And some stats to prove that the same things don't happen in homosexual families?

Our resident expert admits his parent committed suicide, and he's also homosexual. Sound like things are hunky-dory there?

 

[AllieBaba]

Nonsense. Todays 'traditional family unit' consists of one parent families, step families, families with adopted children, and families with two moms or two dads.

Gay families do not undermine your idea of 'traditional' families as composed of your bias--one husband and one wife. We just want to live in peace and be able to take care of our own, just as you do.

No, WRONG. Those are NOT traditional family units, HENCE THE HUGE PROBLEMS THOSE FAMILIES FACE ON A DAILY BASIS. Hence the lower achievement of children raised in those families, hence the higher incidence of death, dysfunction, and the victimization of children, hence the lower income levels, hence the higher incidence of incarceration and drug addiction.

Try again.

 

[KittenKoder]

Really? Got some stats to prove that? And some stats to prove that the same things don't happen in homosexual families?

Our resident expert admits his parent committed suicide, and he's also homosexual. Sound like things are hunky-dory there?

The first marriages of the christians were arranged by the parents for financial gains. Almost all royalty marriages were with first cousins and many were even with half siblings. When it was first changed to include those who 'find love' polygamy was practiced across not only Brittan but also the US. It wasn't until the attacks on the Mormon church that the polygamy became a legal issue, used primarily as a weapon against them. It's all basic high school history classes. Perhaps you need to go back to school more than others.

 

[sky dancer]

No, WRONG. Those are NOT traditional family units, HENCE THE HUGE PROBLEMS THOSE FAMILIES FACE ON A DAILY BASIS. Hence the lower achievement of children raised in those families, hence the higher incidence of death, dysfunction, and the victimization of children, hence the lower income levels, hence the higher incidence of incarceration and drug addiction.

Try again.

They are the truth of how families are composed now. Bi-racial, bi-religious, step families, and so on.

The composition of the family structure does not contribute to death, dysfunction, drug addiction and victimization of children.

You are wrong.

Perfectly healthy children come out of families with gay parents, divorced families, step families, and so on.

Healthy children also come out of Buddhist families, Hindu families, Muslim families, Jewish families, LDS families, and atheist families.

Christian values do not represent THE TRADITIONAL FAMILY nor ensure anything special.

Your post is narrow minded and biased.

 

[KittenKoder]

No, WRONG. Those are NOT traditional family units, HENCE THE HUGE PROBLEMS THOSE FAMILIES FACE ON A DAILY BASIS. Hence the lower achievement of children raised in those families, hence the higher incidence of death, dysfunction, and the victimization of children, hence the lower income levels, hence the higher incidence of incarceration and drug addiction.

Try again.

*rae* You really are a moron. None of that is fact, it's all biased opinion. In reality the stats always show that there is no problems that are not faced by the one mother, one father family. Actually though, they do produce fewer bullies and often fewer criminals come from the 'less traditional' families. Almost all junkies I have met (while living with a bunch in the shelters) were from 'traditional families' and were often abused by one parent or the other, or completely ignored by them both.

 

[AllieBaba]

Perhaps you need to progress out of the school room and into some college or something.

The "first marriages of the Christians" what the hell are you talking about? Arranged marriages took place long before Christ. Arranged marriages still take place.

The marriage of siblings was an Egyptian thing, and went out with the Pharoahs.

When you're talking about "royalty" what period of time are you talking about? The royalty of Europe and England eventually were all somewhat related due to the practice of royalty marrying royalty; but there were huge numbers of them. Sometimes cousins married...but often it was much further removed than that. In the end it didn't matter because they had so concentrated their gene pool over the centuries that whether you married your own parent's brother's child or a third cousin twice removed, it was all the same blood. You're not sharing anything that every sixth grader doesn't already know. And your continued carping on it, which never goes any further, shows how limited your understanding really is.

Polygamy was never practiced in Britain to my knowledge. Got some background for that?

 

[catzmeow]

And the others? Can I then be allowed to marry a sister, brother, mother or father for legal preference?

If you really WANT to, fine, but I don't think you should be allowed to breed.

If I am a Mormon and want more than one wife, can i too get my legal rights to do such?

I see no reason to continue outlawing polygamy. I fully support legalizing it and bringing it out of the shadows where it currently exists. It does no one any good, least of all the young women involved in polygamy, for polygamy to be illegal. This would also eliminate the problem of the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc. wives claiming welfare. If they want to live this way, they should also be prepared to pay their own way.

shouldn't we allow anyone to marry anyone, and as many of anyones as they please, in order to not discriminate, if all are adults?

Yes.

 

[AllieBaba]

*rae* You really are a moron. None of that is fact, it's all biased opinion. In reality the stats always show that there is no problems that are not faced by the one mother, one father family. Actually though, they do produce fewer bullies and often fewer criminals come from the 'less traditional' families. Almost all junkies I have met (while living with a bunch in the shelters) were from 'traditional families' and were often abused by one parent or the other, or completely ignored by them both.

Oh please. The stats do bear it out, as you'd know if you ever actually researched anything. Your experience with junkies has nothing to do with anything, though it certainly explains a lot.

I'll remember that when you next proclaim how functional alternative lifestyles are. Between you and the gay guy with the suicide parent, you pretty much are walking billboards for the reason we need to protect traditional families.

 

[sky dancer]

The way we weren't: The myth and reality of the "traditional" family

America needs more than a revival of the narrow family obligations of the 1950s, whose (greatly exaggerated) protection for white, middle-class children was achieved only at tremendous cost to the women in those families and to all those who could not or would not aspire to the Ozzie and Harriet ideal. We need a concern for children that goes beyond the question of whether a mother is waiting with cookies when her kids come home from school. We need a moral language that allows us to address something besides people's sexual habits. We need to build values and social institutions that can reconcile people's needs for independence with their equally important rights to dependence, and surely we must reject older solutions that involved balancing these needs on the backs of women. We will not find our answers in nostalgia for a mythical "traditional family."
way we weren't: The myth and reality of the "traditional" family, The | National Forum | Find Articles at BNET

 

[AllieBaba]

You have hit the nail on the head.
When our children become secondary to the "happiness" and "contentment" of the parents of the family is when we might as well check out and give up ever raising any functional children.

Parents are SUPPOSED to sacrifice for their children. YOu are SUPPOSED to put on a brave front for them. You are SUPPOSED to make them feel safe and loved...no matter how whiny you feel about the fact that your husband snores and night and doesn't do the dishes (wah). When you don't, you end up with insecure, pathetic, narcissistic children who are always looking for that "something" that they didn't get as children. That something is security, unconditional love, and the stability that comes from having parents that have the balls to stick it out and put on a brave front FOR THE SAKE OF THE KIDS.

 

[KittenKoder]

Oh please. The stats do bear it out, as you'd know if you ever actually researched anything. Your experience with junkies has nothing to do with anything, though it certainly explains a lot.

I'll remember that when you next proclaim how functional alternative lifestyles are. Between you and the gay guy with the suicide parent, you pretty much are walking billboards for the reason we need to protect traditional families.

Notice it was the straight parents that committed suicide? You still are just spewing your biased crap. There are no definitive stats posted by credible sources for one reason, they are the same no matter how the family unit is structured, so only one set of stats is needed still. Logic is still not your strong suit. As for the response to my other post, you still need to learn more about history before you try that again.

 

[KittenKoder]

You have hit the nail on the head.
When our children become secondary to the "happiness" and "contentment" of the parents of the family is when we might as well check out and give up ever raising any functional children.

Parents are SUPPOSED to sacrifice for their children. YOu are SUPPOSED to put on a brave front for them. You are SUPPOSED to make them feel safe and loved...no matter how whiny you feel about the fact that your husband snores and night and doesn't do the dishes (wah). When you don't, you end up with insecure, pathetic, narcissistic children who are always looking for that "something" that they didn't get as children. That something is security, unconditional love, and the stability that comes from having parents that have the balls to stick it out and put on a brave front FOR THE SAKE OF THE KIDS.

You contradict yourself, all children raised with gay parents or 'nontraditional' families have said they were happy with their parents and few hate their parents as much as the 'traditional' family raised ones. Many I know who hate their parents are from 'traditional' ones, me for example, I can't stand my mother and to see her strung up and tortured to death would only please me, but my father was awesome. I wish they had divorced when I was younger just so I wouldn't have had to put up with my mother (who is just like you in many ways).

 

[catzmeow]

I don't want my children to be gay because of the heartbreak and the closed doors they will encounter as a result. I don't want them to be gay because I don't want their children to deal with the unhappiness of their gay parent, and I don't want their children to be confused about their sexual identity.

If one of your children is gay, your desires in this regard will have little or no effect. You can either help that child accept who he/she is, whatever that is, or you can push that child into the shadows where he/she will be much more prone to suicide and self destruction.

But, you don't get to choose whether or not they are gay. You only get to choose how you personally will deal with it.

Sadly, I think that if you have a gay child, he or she will never be able to be honest with you, and that's pretty tragic.

 

[AllieBaba]

Notice it was the straight parents that committed suicide? You still are just spewing your biased crap. There are no definitive stats posted by credible sources for one reason, they are the same no matter how the family unit is structured, so only one set of stats is needed still. Logic is still not your strong suit. As for the response to my other post, you still need to learn more about history before you try that again.

No it wasn't, you idiot. It was his gay parent who committed suicide. And there ARE definitive stats which show the children of non-traditional families don't do as well in school, have more mental health issues, drug issues, so on and so forth. It's been published ad nauseum.

Try reading a little.

 

[AllieBaba]

If one of your children is gay, your desires in this regard will have little or no effect. You can either help that child accept who he/she is, whatever that is, or you can push that child into the shadows where he/she will be much more prone to suicide and self destruction.

But, you don't get to choose whether or not they are gay. You only get to choose how you personally will deal with it.

Sadly, I think that if you have a gay child, he or she will never be able to be honest with you, and that's pretty tragic.

I will never help my child accept something that I know will lead him or her to a life of misery and self-indulgence.

My kids aren't gay and won't be gay. And homosexuality is a choice, moron. Read the studies on it.

 

[catzmeow]

I will never help my child accept something that I know will lead him or her to a life of misery and self-indulgence.

My kids aren't gay and won't be gay. And homosexuality is a choice, moron. Read the studies on it.

I think it's self evident who the moron is here, and it isn't me. I feel sorry for your kids.

 

[AllieBaba]

You shouldn't. I haven't raised them to think whatever sexually deviant fantasies they have are "okay" or "normal" or "acceptable".

I've raised them to be somewhat self disciplined, to understand we don't always get to act on whatever impulse we have, and there are consequences for our actions.

None of them are gay, btw. None of them have committed suicide. None have dropped out of school or become drug addicts. I'd say I'm ahead of the curve on this one. I've certainly got KK and the gay guy beat all to hell.