Russia's New Armata Tank: The Best Tank in the World?

[night_son]

The T-14 was supposed to have 2300 tanks by 2020. Instead they are going to have 12.

And what we've seen again and again, unless a tank doesn't have the firepower to compete (the Abrams does), four things tend to heavily impact tank battles.

1. Tactics. US spends a LOT more with actual training and integrated live fire exercises.
2. Air superiority. Saw this often that owning the skies can be devastating to any armored forces.
3. Firing (and hitting) first. T-14 has a 12x mag sight, whereas the Abrams has a 50x. The T-14 is essentially a non factor if it loses it's sensors while the Abrams can still fire line of sight. Russia last we knew was decades behind the US in terms of thermal imaging. Ballistic computers (ability to fire on target on the move) have always favored the American tanks, despite Russia saying again and again their computers have caught up, they've always disappointed.
4. Armor. This tank is 15-20 tons lighter than an Abrams, and much cheaper. Meaning it's unlikely the armor is some very expensive lightweight composite (See the Japanese Type 10).

The Abram´s gun is a licensed German L/44, an outdated canon.

"By 1990, the L/44 was not considered powerful enough to deal with future Soviet armour, which stimulated an effort by Rheinmetall to develop a better main armament."
Rheinmetall Rh-120 - Wikipedia

The Abrams is not compatible with the L/55. Additionally, no MBT was made in USA for almost 30 years.

Interesting... so you believe Russia choosing instead focusing on fixing up T-72's is what makes them scary? Remind me the kill rates when T-72's and Abrams have faced off?

And that was Pre 830's...

Iraqi made munitions could not hurt the Abrams. But it is no secret that a T-72 can destroy an M1 at a range of 1000 meters.

LOL, let's see the T-72 fight an Abrams or even a Bradley . . . after sundown. Go, go stone age!

 

[Crepitus]

The T-14 was supposed to have 2300 tanks by 2020. Instead they are going to have 12.

And what we've seen again and again, unless a tank doesn't have the firepower to compete (the Abrams does), four things tend to heavily impact tank battles.

1. Tactics. US spends a LOT more with actual training and integrated live fire exercises.
2. Air superiority. Saw this often that owning the skies can be devastating to any armored forces.
3. Firing (and hitting) first. T-14 has a 12x mag sight, whereas the Abrams has a 50x. The T-14 is essentially a non factor if it loses it's sensors while the Abrams can still fire line of sight. Russia last we knew was decades behind the US in terms of thermal imaging. Ballistic computers (ability to fire on target on the move) have always favored the American tanks, despite Russia saying again and again their computers have caught up, they've always disappointed.
4. Armor. This tank is 15-20 tons lighter than an Abrams, and much cheaper. Meaning it's unlikely the armor is some very expensive lightweight composite (See the Japanese Type 10).

The Abram´s gun is a licensed German L/44, an outdated canon.

"By 1990, the L/44 was not considered powerful enough to deal with future Soviet armour, which stimulated an effort by Rheinmetall to develop a better main armament."
Rheinmetall Rh-120 - Wikipedia

The Abrams is not compatible with the L/55. Additionally, no MBT was made in USA for almost 30 years.

Abrams were upgraded to 120 mm guns in the early 1990s.

It was upgraded to the L/44.

Weren't all of Iraq's Russian-made tanks destroyed in 1 day?

Yes, by a much smaller unit and without a single American casualty.

 

[DrainBamage]

If the T-14 was canceled, why is National Interest publishing a brand new article about it?

They have articles about SU-57, and they are barely making enough of those for the summer airshow circuit which is the pretty much the only battefield high performance Russian planes perform well in. An article being written about a weapon system doesn't magically uncancel it.

Read = Russia Can't Afford Its New T-14 Armata Tanks, Turns To Updated Older Designs Instead
More than three years after Russia’s T-14 Armata tank made its widely touted and much scrutinized public debut, the country has made it clear it has no plans at present to buy more than 100 of them. The design’s ballooning cost has forced the Kremlin to focus its efforts on upgrading its T-72, T-80, and T-90 tanks, instead. (...) “We don’t really need to for this, these models are quite expensive in relation to existing ones,” Russian Deputy Prime Minister Yuri Borisov explained to reporters to reporters on July 30, 2018. “Well, why flood the all Armed Forces with the Armata tanks, we have the T-72s in great demand in the market, they take it all, compared to the Abrams, Leclercs and Leopards, for their price, efficiency, and quality.”

When you're building only 100 of a new tank model and spinning it that you don't really need it, you've canceled it.

 

[Bleipriester]

The T-14 was supposed to have 2300 tanks by 2020. Instead they are going to have 12.

And what we've seen again and again, unless a tank doesn't have the firepower to compete (the Abrams does), four things tend to heavily impact tank battles.

1. Tactics. US spends a LOT more with actual training and integrated live fire exercises.
2. Air superiority. Saw this often that owning the skies can be devastating to any armored forces.
3. Firing (and hitting) first. T-14 has a 12x mag sight, whereas the Abrams has a 50x. The T-14 is essentially a non factor if it loses it's sensors while the Abrams can still fire line of sight. Russia last we knew was decades behind the US in terms of thermal imaging. Ballistic computers (ability to fire on target on the move) have always favored the American tanks, despite Russia saying again and again their computers have caught up, they've always disappointed.
4. Armor. This tank is 15-20 tons lighter than an Abrams, and much cheaper. Meaning it's unlikely the armor is some very expensive lightweight composite (See the Japanese Type 10).

The Abram´s gun is a licensed German L/44, an outdated canon.

"By 1990, the L/44 was not considered powerful enough to deal with future Soviet armour, which stimulated an effort by Rheinmetall to develop a better main armament."
Rheinmetall Rh-120 - Wikipedia

The Abrams is not compatible with the L/55. Additionally, no MBT was made in USA for almost 30 years.

Abrams were upgraded to 120 mm guns in the early 1990s.

It was upgraded to the L/44.

Weren't all of Iraq's Russian-made tanks destroyed in 1 day?

Hey man, what color are Russian ships?

Those were Iraqi Made T-72 ("Lion of Babylon") with Iraqi made ammunition.

 

[Crepitus]

The T-14 was supposed to have 2300 tanks by 2020. Instead they are going to have 12.

And what we've seen again and again, unless a tank doesn't have the firepower to compete (the Abrams does), four things tend to heavily impact tank battles.

1. Tactics. US spends a LOT more with actual training and integrated live fire exercises.
2. Air superiority. Saw this often that owning the skies can be devastating to any armored forces.
3. Firing (and hitting) first. T-14 has a 12x mag sight, whereas the Abrams has a 50x. The T-14 is essentially a non factor if it loses it's sensors while the Abrams can still fire line of sight. Russia last we knew was decades behind the US in terms of thermal imaging. Ballistic computers (ability to fire on target on the move) have always favored the American tanks, despite Russia saying again and again their computers have caught up, they've always disappointed.
4. Armor. This tank is 15-20 tons lighter than an Abrams, and much cheaper. Meaning it's unlikely the armor is some very expensive lightweight composite (See the Japanese Type 10).

The Abram´s gun is a licensed German L/44, an outdated canon.

"By 1990, the L/44 was not considered powerful enough to deal with future Soviet armour, which stimulated an effort by Rheinmetall to develop a better main armament."
Rheinmetall Rh-120 - Wikipedia

The Abrams is not compatible with the L/55. Additionally, no MBT was made in USA for almost 30 years.

Abrams were upgraded to 120 mm guns in the early 1990s.

It was upgraded to the L/44.

Weren't all of Iraq's Russian-made tanks destroyed in 1 day?

Hey man, what color are Russian ships?

Those were Iraqi Made T-72 ("Lion of Babylon") with Iraqi made ammunition.

And the difference is???

 

[Bleipriester]

If the T-14 was canceled, why is National Interest publishing a brand new article about it?

They have articles about SU-57, and they are barely making enough of those for the summer airshow circuit which is the pretty much the only battefield high performance Russian planes perform well in. An article being written about a weapon system doesn't magically uncancel it.

Read = Russia Can't Afford Its New T-14 Armata Tanks, Turns To Updated Older Designs Instead
More than three years after Russia’s T-14 Armata tank made its widely touted and much scrutinized public debut, the country has made it clear it has no plans at present to buy more than 100 of them. The design’s ballooning cost has forced the Kremlin to focus its efforts on upgrading its T-72, T-80, and T-90 tanks, instead. (...) “We don’t really need to for this, these models are quite expensive in relation to existing ones,” Russian Deputy Prime Minister Yuri Borisov explained to reporters to reporters on July 30, 2018. “Well, why flood the all Armed Forces with the Armata tanks, we have the T-72s in great demand in the market, they take it all, compared to the Abrams, Leclercs and Leopards, for their price, efficiency, and quality.”

When you're building only 100 of a new tank model and spinning it that you don't really need it, you've canceled it.

They have dealt with the imposed economic crisis, instead.

 

[Bleipriester]

The Abram´s gun is a licensed German L/44, an outdated canon.

"By 1990, the L/44 was not considered powerful enough to deal with future Soviet armour, which stimulated an effort by Rheinmetall to develop a better main armament."
Rheinmetall Rh-120 - Wikipedia

The Abrams is not compatible with the L/55. Additionally, no MBT was made in USA for almost 30 years.

Abrams were upgraded to 120 mm guns in the early 1990s.

It was upgraded to the L/44.

Weren't all of Iraq's Russian-made tanks destroyed in 1 day?

Hey man, what color are Russian ships?

Those were Iraqi Made T-72 ("Lion of Babylon") with Iraqi made ammunition.

And the difference is???

Those are not fully capable T-72 and who knows about their quality.

 

[Bleipriester]

Russia will have the most modern forces soon while western militaries are on the decline.
The only option for Europe is to stay on friendly terms with Russia. Phrump needs to know that.

Russia's New Armata Tank: The Best Tank in the World?

Let's see them mass produce it. After they've mass produced it, let's see them mass produce a new air force to shield those shining new armor divisions from the most powerful airborne military force in human history. And then, let's watch as said airborne force wrecks the not yet in existence Armata divisions like toy train sets. Word.

You are on the decline. Assad is staying, Maduro is staying. Times have changed.

 

[Bleipriester]

Russia will have the most modern forces soon while western militaries are on the decline.
The only option for Europe is to stay on friendly terms with Russia. Phrump needs to know that.

Russia's New Armata Tank: The Best Tank in the World?

Jane's is pretty impressed with the tank for sure, but with the extremely low production numbers I don't think they will be much if a problem. 132 total systems in the pipe I think, the majority if which are configured as infantry carriers. None delivered so far as far as I know.

A technical issue I guess. Read the article, the platform seems to be planned to serve for decades. Not that the Russians are in a hurry with a new MBT. They have still 20000 MBTs in service.

So they have 12 of them, plans for another 20 and NOTHING past that. And they were in a hurry, until they realized the couldn't afford it and cancelled their order. The US has developed dozens of weapons of which only a handful get made before the program gets shut down and orders cancelled.

The backbone of that group is the T-72 (saw how they competed vs. previous gen of Abrams). Then the T-80 (based on the T-64 with some T-72 features) which the US had obtained and tested against and who's only use in armed conflict was a failure (1st Chechen war) and high costs kept out of later conflicts.


And the T-90 (a T72 variant which was given a new name to feel modern and not based off a 50 year old design) which is being sold around the world.

What about cancelling an order of modern tanks to instead go back to the drawing board with refurbishing cold war era tanks that have proven not to be able to compete with the Abrams gives them the "modern force"?

They will come sooner or later and in large numbers. That´s for sure.

 

[Bleipriester]

The T-14 was supposed to have 2300 tanks by 2020. Instead they are going to have 12.

And what we've seen again and again, unless a tank doesn't have the firepower to compete (the Abrams does), four things tend to heavily impact tank battles.

1. Tactics. US spends a LOT more with actual training and integrated live fire exercises.
2. Air superiority. Saw this often that owning the skies can be devastating to any armored forces.
3. Firing (and hitting) first. T-14 has a 12x mag sight, whereas the Abrams has a 50x. The T-14 is essentially a non factor if it loses it's sensors while the Abrams can still fire line of sight. Russia last we knew was decades behind the US in terms of thermal imaging. Ballistic computers (ability to fire on target on the move) have always favored the American tanks, despite Russia saying again and again their computers have caught up, they've always disappointed.
4. Armor. This tank is 15-20 tons lighter than an Abrams, and much cheaper. Meaning it's unlikely the armor is some very expensive lightweight composite (See the Japanese Type 10).

The Abram´s gun is a licensed German L/44, an outdated canon.

"By 1990, the L/44 was not considered powerful enough to deal with future Soviet armour, which stimulated an effort by Rheinmetall to develop a better main armament."
Rheinmetall Rh-120 - Wikipedia

The Abrams is not compatible with the L/55. Additionally, no MBT was made in USA for almost 30 years.

Abrams were upgraded to 120 mm guns in the early 1990s.

It was upgraded to the L/44.

No, the L/44 is the original 105 mm gun.

The L/44 is a 120 mm gun.
Why do I post links?
Rheinmetall Rh-120 - Wikipedia

 

[Crepitus]

Abrams were upgraded to 120 mm guns in the early 1990s.

It was upgraded to the L/44.

Weren't all of Iraq's Russian-made tanks destroyed in 1 day?

Hey man, what color are Russian ships?

Those were Iraqi Made T-72 ("Lion of Babylon") with Iraqi made ammunition.

And the difference is???

Those are not fully capable T-72 and who knows about their quality.

Ah, so it must be the iraqi's fault. The Russian design couldn't be hopelessly outdated or anything.

 

[DrainBamage]

You are on the decline. Assad is staying, Maduro is staying. Times have changed.

Yes you keep trying to express this but aren't doing a good job at it.

US is on the decline, as evidenced by Russia building 100 of this new tank model that broke down and had to be towed in it's debut parade.

 

[night_son]

Russia will have the most modern forces soon while western militaries are on the decline.
The only option for Europe is to stay on friendly terms with Russia. Phrump needs to know that.

Russia's New Armata Tank: The Best Tank in the World?

Let's see them mass produce it. After they've mass produced it, let's see them mass produce a new air force to shield those shining new armor divisions from the most powerful airborne military force in human history. And then, let's watch as said airborne force wrecks the not yet in existence Armata divisions like toy train sets. Word.

You are on the decline. Assad is staying, Maduro is staying. Times have changed.

Even Rome's teeth remained sharp enough to bite through Her enemies, during her last years.

 

[DrainBamage]

They will come sooner or later and in large numbers. That´s for sure.

Oh yeah all this fancy military hardware Russia dreams up then cancels will come some day.

 

[Bleipriester]

It was upgraded to the L/44.

Weren't all of Iraq's Russian-made tanks destroyed in 1 day?

Hey man, what color are Russian ships?

Those were Iraqi Made T-72 ("Lion of Babylon") with Iraqi made ammunition.

And the difference is???

Those are not fully capable T-72 and who knows about their quality.

Ah, so it must be the iraqi's fault. The Russian design couldn't be hopelessly outdated or anything.

Upgraded T-72 ain´t outdated.

 

[Bleipriester]

They will come sooner or later and in large numbers. That´s for sure.

Oh yeah all this fancy military hardware Russia dreams up then cancels will come some day.

It will. Russia´s involvement in Syria has boosted their arms sales. They have presented a lot of new weapons there.

 

[Marion Morrison]

You are on the decline. Assad is staying, Maduro is staying. Times have changed.

Yes you keep trying to express this but aren't doing a good job at it.

US is on the decline, as evidenced by Russia building 100 of this new tank model that broke down and had to be towed in it's debut parade.

 

[Bleipriester]

Russia will have the most modern forces soon while western militaries are on the decline.
The only option for Europe is to stay on friendly terms with Russia. Phrump needs to know that.

Russia's New Armata Tank: The Best Tank in the World?

Let's see them mass produce it. After they've mass produced it, let's see them mass produce a new air force to shield those shining new armor divisions from the most powerful airborne military force in human history. And then, let's watch as said airborne force wrecks the not yet in existence Armata divisions like toy train sets. Word.

You are on the decline. Assad is staying, Maduro is staying. Times have changed.

Even Rome's teeth remained sharp enough to bite through Her enemies, during her last years.

Barbaric hordes plundered Rome, the capital.

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

Russia will have the most modern forces soon while western militaries are on the decline.
The only option for Europe is to stay on friendly terms with Russia. Phrump needs to know that.

Russia's New Armata Tank: The Best Tank in the World?

Best tank in the world, meet the coffin maker.

Incredibly low cost and capable plane but they do have air defense. Ever heard of air defense?

Yes...
When you have air superiority, their air defense isnt shit.

 

[Marion Morrison]

Armada is naval term.