Russian Spy Swap. What's The Hurry???

[mudwhistle]

Wait, you actually think there are not nations, like Russia, and china, and even some in Europe that would not love to see us go down?

Wow you must be really young.

You do know that we were Japans number 1 trading partner when they attacked us in WWII right. Co Dependence does not preclude the possibility of War. It can actually increase it. It also does not rule out the possibility that people who we are friendly with, and co dependent for trade with, Might be happy to see us fall despite that they may lose some trade with us.

Even with our closest allies, we are still in the end Economic Competitors. We are widely viewed as taking more than our share, having to much wealth. There are IMO Billions of people who would welcome some short term economic Pain, in order to get us out of the way for good.

You got a link on the Japan #1 trading partner? And if you are comparing Japan in the 40's to the United Kingdom and other European nations in the 00's then you are clearly not seeing apples and pineapples.

Also, do you really think China wants us to fail? Do you realize how much we owe China? They want us to be around as long as possible. To say there are billions of people who would welcome our demise or even us hurting is so stupid. Think about that statement for a moment? Billions? C'mon. I'm not saying there aren't powers who want us gone, but they aren't nearly the majority.

Japan used a trade dispute to base their rationale on attacking us.

So he's correct.

 

[Charles_Main]

Wait, you actually think there are not nations, like Russia, and china, and even some in Europe that would not love to see us go down?

Wow you must be really young.

You do know that we were Japans number 1 trading partner when they attacked us in WWII right. Co Dependence does not preclude the possibility of War. It can actually increase it. It also does not rule out the possibility that people who we are friendly with, and co dependent for trade with, Might be happy to see us fall despite that they may lose some trade with us.

Even with our closest allies, we are still in the end Economic Competitors. We are widely viewed as taking more than our share, having to much wealth. There are IMO Billions of people who would welcome some short term economic Pain, in order to get us out of the way for good.

You got a link on the Japan #1 trading partner? And if you are comparing Japan in the 40's to the United Kingdom and other European nations in the 00's then you are clearly not seeing apples and pineapples.

Also, do you really think China wants us to fail? Do you realize how much we owe China? They want us to be around as long as possible. To say there are billions of people who would welcome our demise or even us hurting is so stupid. Think about that statement for a moment? Billions? C'mon. I'm not saying there aren't powers who want us gone, but they aren't nearly the majority.

If you can't look up who was Japans, Number 1 trading partner before WWII, why should I do it for you. I read a lot of books on WWII, I assure we were there number one trading partner. If you do not think so prove me wrong.

I'm not saying the UK and Europe are just like japan was. No I am simply pointing out that co dependence in trade does not preclude hostility or joy if we fall. people do not always think rationally. Many people, even those who call us their friends, would not mind at all suffering for while if it meant they might be able to take over the top spot. So to speak. There is only so much wealth to be had, and we are all competitors in the end.

 

[Modbert]

If you can't look up who was Japans, Number 1 trading partner before WWII, why should I do it for you. I read a lot of books on WWII, I assure we were there number one trading partner. If you do not think so prove me wrong.

I'm not saying the UK and Europe are just like japan was. No I am simply pointing out that co dependence in trade does not preclude hostility or joy if we fall. people do not always think rationally. Many people, even those who call us their friends, would not mind at all suffering for while if it meant they might be able to take over the top spot. So to speak. There is only so much wealth to be had, and we are all competitors in the end.

Again, you are comparing the 1930's and 40's to the present time. Big difference. Yes, when you look at it a certain way, we are all competitors. However, too many countries rely on us in one way or another to want us to fall. As for the trading point, I'll address that when I address Mud.

 

[Modbert]

Japan used a trade dispute to base their rationale on attacking us.

So he's correct.

Actually, they wanted to expand further in the Pacific and we didn't want that. Hence, the sanctions. Charles is technically right as we were by far the #1 importer of oil to Japan, however it was like that for many countries at the time. Not just Japan. They actually wanted to move away from dependence on U.S oil.

 

[mudwhistle]

If you can't look up who was Japans, Number 1 trading partner before WWII, why should I do it for you. I read a lot of books on WWII, I assure we were there number one trading partner. If you do not think so prove me wrong.

I'm not saying the UK and Europe are just like japan was. No I am simply pointing out that co dependence in trade does not preclude hostility or joy if we fall. people do not always think rationally. Many people, even those who call us their friends, would not mind at all suffering for while if it meant they might be able to take over the top spot. So to speak. There is only so much wealth to be had, and we are all competitors in the end.

Again, you are comparing the 1930's and 40's to the present time. Big difference. Yes, when you look at it a certain way, we are all competitors. However, too many countries rely on us in one way or another to want us to fall. As for the trading point, I'll address that when I address Mud.

Your point is worthless.

Trade is between governments and corporations.

The favor-ability rating we have has more to do with what the average European thinks of America in general.

Obama is hostile to business so as a result business in America suffers.

This brings us down to everyone else's level. They kind of like that.

 

[Modbert]

Your point is worthless.

Trade is between governments and corporations.

The favor-ability rating we have has more to do with what the average European thinks of America in general.

Obama is hostile to business so as a result business in America suffers.

This brings us down to everyone else's level. They kind of like that.

I've posted countless evidence in this thread. So much so that you have moved off your original topic as to not be embarrassed further. Do you have any evidence at all that the majority of Europeans want to see us fall? Just because you wish to see the rest of the world burn, doesn't mean the rest of the world feels that way about us.

 

[mudwhistle]

Your point is worthless.

Trade is between governments and corporations.

The favor-ability rating we have has more to do with what the average European thinks of America in general.

Obama is hostile to business so as a result business in America suffers.

This brings us down to everyone else's level. They kind of like that.

I've posted countless evidence in this thread. So much so that you have moved off your original topic as to not be embarrassed further. Do you have any evidence at all that the majority of Europeans want to see us fall? Just because you wish to see the rest of the world burn, doesn't mean the rest of the world feels that way about us.

I never said a majority of Europeans want to see us fall. This is an example of you trying to put words in my mouth.

My point was that they prefer us to be weak. They most likely don't feel good about us when we're winning, when we're constantly showing them up or talking about how great we are.

Europeans love to look down their noses at us because they feel they're more refined and advanced while we're a bunch of uneducated red-neck assholes that think we're special. So they want to see us fail. Obama will make sure of that.

Many governments would love to see us fall.

 

[Modbert]

So no real evidence. Gotcha.

 

[mudwhistle]

So no real evidence. Gotcha.

Whatever.

Common-sense isn't evidence enough.

By the way...getting back to the main topic....this is the first time I've seen a President say he's sorry or act conciliatory to the guilty parties for catching their spies. And Russia in response showed nothing but condemnation for our catching them.

This is evidence enough for me.

 

[mudwhistle]

So Dog....you think trading 10 Russian spies for 4 other Russians is a good trade?

Once again...no American was involved in the swap.

You really are an idiot.

 

[Hugidwyn]

So no real evidence. Gotcha.

Whatever.

Common-sense isn't evidence enough.

By the way...getting back to the main topic....this is the first time I've seen a President say he's sorry or act conciliatory to the guilty parties for catching their spies. And Russia in response showed nothing but condemnation for our catching them.

This is evidence enough for me.

None other like Obama a Communist and a Russian agent.

 

[L.K.Eder]

The fact you think Russia is our enemy and Israelis/Brits are no longer our friends may just be a good indicator how out of touch with reality you may be.

What you don't know about Russia would fill an entire library.

And you can't say Obama has been kind to ether the Brits or the Israelis.

He showed the Israeli PM the back door and sent the bust of Winston Churchill back.

Russia has been screwing us for years. They're selling nuke technology to Iran. Don't tell me you don't know this.

he sent the bust of churchill back?

what a monster

 

[Hugidwyn]

According to various press accounts, the number of Russian intelligence officers in America and Western Europe has already returned to Cold War levels. Obama has now told the Russians, there isn't even a problem if we catch you. Try anything you want.

Normally, when any intelligence service has a major flap as this was, it would order an immediate stand down of other operations in that country for perhaps several months while it tried to figure out what had gone wrong. By immediately sending these SVR officers back to Moscow, they will be available to assist in that investigation.

Not knowing what all they were involved in -- it was certainly more than "penetrating the local PTA" -- don't necessarily advocate having kept these people in prison for decades, but a year or two in prison before offering a swap would have sent a strong message to Putin and the SVR. And if the press accounts are accurate, getting four people out of Russian jails in return for these 10 doesn't seem like much of a bargain either. (An 11th suspect detained in Cyprus remains on the loose after being released on bail.)

Putin is laughing at Obama.

 

[mudwhistle]

Jesus Dog....you accept all of this crap never questioning anything.

You accept this as business as usual.

Sorry...but I don't trust as quickly as you do.

I accept what without questioning? What? Do you think there is some massive conspiracy here? Do tell me Muddy, what do you think is going on here. This is business as usual, if you don't think we have spies in other countries and vice versa then you truly are ignorant.

Actually it is a conspiracy. Not a very subtle one at that.

I really don't know what Obama hopes to gain from it......maybe look like he really gives a damn about national security....or just show cooperation with a country that has been backstabbing us at every turn for decades.

The point is all that has happened is a bunch of Russians got free airline flights. I don't see where the benefit was for us and you haven't proved anything ether. No Americans were involved in the exchange and it all happened before anyone could raise of fuss about it.