San Francisco Bart Shooting , Trial, & Riot

[Procrustes Stretched]

San Francisco Bart Shooting , Trial, & Riot

Oakland riots, looting after manslaughter verdict in BART shooting trial (video, photos)

--

I get this much, a transit cop shot an unarmed man who was handcuffed and lying face down, prone, on a sidewalk. The cop said he thought he reached for his taser, when in reality he grabbed his gun -- and shot.

I have a difficult time believing a cop shot a guy on the street, in public, over a minor infraction.

The riot I understand, from the perspective of people who fear the police, is that cops get away from murder.

btw, a friend of the guy who was shot, said the cop was saying "I will taser you" before he pulled his gun and shot. The friend of the guy who was shot says the cop looked very shocked when the everyone realized a shot was fired.

yet there is a legitimate question being raised by others: do cops get away with murder?

 

[ConHog]

San Francisco Bart Shooting , Trial, & Riot

Oakland riots, looting after manslaughter verdict in BART shooting trial (video, photos)

--

I get this much, a transit cop shot an unarmed man who was handcuffed and lying face down, prone, on a sidewalk. The cop said he thought he reached for his taser, when in reality he grabbed his gun -- and shot.

I have a difficult time believing a cop shot a guy on the street, in public, over a minor infraction.

The riot I understand, from the perspective of people who fear the police, is that cops get away from murder.

btw, a friend of the guy who was shot, said the cop was saying "I will taser you" before he pulled his gun and shot. The friend of the guy who was shot says the cop looked very shocked when the everyone realized a shot was fired.

yet there is a legitimate question being raised by others: do cops get away with murder?

How is that a legitimate question when in fact THIS cop was found guilty? By the way, rioting is never okay.

 

[Avatar4321]

Actually, I don't see why anyone is rioting when he was found guilty.

 

[Truthmatters]

He shot the man point blank for doing what?

 

[boedicca]

It wasn't a San Francisco incident.

As I live in Oaklandtown, here are my observations regarding the events last night.

First, I did not alter my normal commute habits despite the hyper sensationalism of Riot-palooza. I took BART from SF at 7pm, passing through the station near ground zero of the protest. The trip was completely uneventful, except for the extra comfort of the training being a bit less crowded than usual.

Local stations KTVU (2) and KRON (4) were both covering the situation, although the former bailed out to start the regularly scheduled broadcast of "Glee". KRON's coverage was more thorough - more reporters on the ground and in the crowd.

I saw three distinct groups of "protestors":

- Actual Oaklanders who were "mourners" and peacefully protesting. These were the majority of the original 800 group which shrank to 300-400 by around 8pm. They were cooperative with the police, and there to exercise their first amendment rights. I disagree with most of their interpretations of the verdict, but sympathize with their dismay.

- The second group was identified by Police Chief Batts (whom I admire quite a bit) as Anarchist types of the ilk who protest at the G20 and WTO events. These are pretty much a staple at most protests in the Bay Area, with the exception of Tea Party Events. Batts estimated that there were at least 50 of these in the crowd. A few tried to incite violence among group one, and failed. Four were isolated, dressed in black and wearing face masks, and arrested around dusk. As they were cuffing them, I could see that they were all young caucasians (college age / early 20s).

- The third group showed up later and were the typical lawless gang-banger looter types that plague many big cities.

- 83 people were arrested; most of them are not Oakland residents.

- There was less looting than after recent Superbowls and NBA championships in other cities.

- The cops did an admirable job of crowd control and getting the peaceful citizens to largely disperse so they were not caught up when the looters erupted.

- Chief Batts was a class act in how he handled the periodic press conference: professional, calm, competent. Our horrible mayor Ron "Carpet Bagger" Dellums was a stark contrast with his inane Stuart Smalley-Ghandi in a nehru jacket impersonation.

All in all, I think the police handled a difficult situation in a calm, professional manner - and can't help but wonder how much of the looting was due to the media hype. Claiming that there are going to be riots may encourage people to show up and riot. Given that the perpetrators were largely not from Oakland, it's likely that the media hype exacerbated the situation.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

San Francisco Bart Shooting , Trial, & Riot

Oakland riots, looting after manslaughter verdict in BART shooting trial (video, photos)

--

I get this much, a transit cop shot an unarmed man who was handcuffed and lying face down, prone, on a sidewalk. The cop said he thought he reached for his taser, when in reality he grabbed his gun -- and shot.

I have a difficult time believing a cop shot a guy on the street, in public, over a minor infraction.

The riot I understand, from the perspective of people who fear the police, is that cops get away from murder.

btw, a friend of the guy who was shot, said the cop was saying "I will taser you" before he pulled his gun and shot. The friend of the guy who was shot says the cop looked very shocked when the everyone realized a shot was fired.

yet there is a legitimate question being raised by others: do cops get away with murder?

How is that a legitimate question when in fact THIS cop was found guilty? By the way, rioting is never okay.

Riotng is never okay? hmmm, tell that to the East Germans, the Filipinos, the Polish, the anti-communists, the anti-fascists...

The verdict in the case above does not de-legitimize the question: do cops get away with murder? Saying it does is deflection on display.

 

[Truthmatters]

They dont seem to understand that the Boston tea party was a riot

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Actually, I don't see why anyone is rioting when he was found guilty.

disingenuous as usual? sigh

I get why they are rioting even though I with many of the basic premises of the arguments the rioters would use.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

He shot the man point blank for doing what?

He shot the man by accident. He wanted to taser a resisting arrest person who was fighting being handcuffed.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

It wasn't a San Francisco incident.

As I live in Oaklandtown, her are mybservations regarding the events last night.

First, I did not alter my normal commute habits despite the hyper sensationalism of Riot-palooza. I took BART from SF at 7pm, passing through the station near ground zero of the protest. The trip was completely uneventful, except for the extra comfort of the training being a bit less crowded than usual.

Local stations KTVU (2) and KRON (4) were both covering the situation, although the former bailed out to start the regularly scheduled broadcast of "Glee". KRON's coverage was more thorough - more reporters on the ground and in the crowd.

I saw three distinct groups of "protestors":

- Actual Oaklanders who were "mourners" and peacefully protesting. These were the majority of the original 800 group which shrank to 300-400 by around 8pm. They were cooperative with the police, and there to exercise their first amendment rights. I disagree with most of their interpretations of the verdict, but sympathize with their dismay.

- The second group was identified by Police Chief Batts (whom I admire quite a bit) as Anarchist types of the ilk who protest at the G20 and WTO events. These are pretty much a staple at most protests in the Bay Area, with the exception of Tea Party Events. Batts estimated that there were at least 50 of these in the crowd. A few tried to incite violence among group one, and failed. Four were isolated, dressed in black and wearing face masks, and arrested around dusk. As they were cuffing them, I could see that they were all young caucasians (college age / early 20s).

- The third group showed up later and were the typical lawless gang-banger looter types that plague many big cities.

- 83 people were arrested; most of them are not Oakland residents.

- There was less looting than after recent Superbowls and NBA championships in other cities.

- The cops did an admirable job of crowd control and getting the peaceful citizens to largely disperse so they were not caught up when the looters erupted.

- Chief Batts was a class act in how he handled the periodic press conference: professional, calm, competent. Our horrible major Ron "Carpet Bagger" Dellums was a stark contrast with his inane Stuart Smalley-Ghandi in a nehru jacket impersonation.

All in all, I think the police handled a difficult situation in a calm, professional manner - and can't help but wonder how much of the looting was due to the media hype. Claiming that there are going to be riots may encourage people to show up and riot. Given that the perpetrators were largely not from Oakland, it's likely that the media hype exacerbated the situation.

What do you think of the verdict and what do you believe happened with the shooting?

 

[boedicca]

They dont seem to understand that the Boston tea party was a riot

And as usual, TM has no clue how to make a valid comparison.

The looting and rioting was not done by the Oakland Protestors, who were peaceful. The looting was done by the usual anarchist agitators and gang banger hoodlums. The former want to destroy our country - the latter are just thugs.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

They dont seem to understand that the Boston tea party was a riot

or that Bostonian Patriots actually tarred and feathered people. A gruesome practice. Patriots also harassed and abused those who disagreed with them.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

They dont seem to understand that the Boston tea party was a riot

And as usual, TM has no clue how to make a valid comparison.

The looting and rioting was not done by the Oakland Protestors, who were peaceful. The looting was done by the usual anarchist agitators and gang banger hoodlums. The former want to destroy our country - the latter are just thugs.

There were people in the colonies who said the exact same thing about the secret society that pulled the Tea Party. You do know all people who were upset with the crown did not think alike? Patriots sometimes disagreed with tactics of each other.


you are the clueless one here

 

[Jeremy]

San Francisco Bart Shooting , Trial, & Riot

Oakland riots, looting after manslaughter verdict in BART shooting trial (video, photos)

--

I get this much, a transit cop shot an unarmed man who was handcuffed and lying face down, prone, on a sidewalk. The cop said he thought he reached for his taser, when in reality he grabbed his gun -- and shot.

I have a difficult time believing a cop shot a guy on the street, in public, over a minor infraction.

The riot I understand, from the perspective of people who fear the police, is that cops get away from murder.

btw, a friend of the guy who was shot, said the cop was saying "I will taser you" before he pulled his gun and shot. The friend of the guy who was shot says the cop looked very shocked when the everyone realized a shot was fired.

yet there is a legitimate question being raised by others: do cops get away with murder?

How is that a legitimate question when in fact THIS cop was found guilty? By the way, rioting is never okay.

Riotng is never okay? hmmm, tell that to the East Germans, the Filipinos, the Polish, the anti-communists, the anti-fascists...

The verdict in the case above does not de-legitimize the question: do cops get away with murder? Saying it does is deflection on display.

They probably have. And they probably will in the future. And I agree with the verdict of manslaughter. It was not intentional, but the cops negligence resulted in the someone's death. What happened to that guy is awful but the rioters need to know that it was determined to be an accident. But all they see, hear and think is "white cop killed black guy and cop is not going to jail for the rest of his life." The whole thing is a shame.

 

[ConHog]

San Francisco Bart Shooting , Trial, & Riot

Oakland riots, looting after manslaughter verdict in BART shooting trial (video, photos)

--

I get this much, a transit cop shot an unarmed man who was handcuffed and lying face down, prone, on a sidewalk. The cop said he thought he reached for his taser, when in reality he grabbed his gun -- and shot.

I have a difficult time believing a cop shot a guy on the street, in public, over a minor infraction.

The riot I understand, from the perspective of people who fear the police, is that cops get away from murder.

btw, a friend of the guy who was shot, said the cop was saying "I will taser you" before he pulled his gun and shot. The friend of the guy who was shot says the cop looked very shocked when the everyone realized a shot was fired.

yet there is a legitimate question being raised by others: do cops get away with murder?

How is that a legitimate question when in fact THIS cop was found guilty? By the way, rioting is never okay.

Riotng is never okay? hmmm, tell that to the East Germans, the Filipinos, the Polish, the anti-communists, the anti-fascists...

The verdict in the case above does not de-legitimize the question: do cops get away with murder? Saying it does is deflection on display.

Okay, allow me to amend. Rioting is THIS country is never okay. We have a legal system to deal with these issues.

As for this case, the cop was guilty. pretty dumb to draw your gun instead of your taser. do cops get away with murder? Sure , occasionally, as do rich black ex athletes or rap stars. Our system isn't perfect, but it works pretty damn well.

 

[Avatar4321]

Actually, I don't see why anyone is rioting when he was found guilty.

disingenuous as usual? sigh

I get why they are rioting even though I with many of the basic premises of the arguments the rioters would use.

How is it disingenous? He was found guilty. Why are they upset?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

How is that a legitimate question when in fact THIS cop was found guilty? By the way, rioting is never okay.

Riotng is never okay? hmmm, tell that to the East Germans, the Filipinos, the Polish, the anti-communists, the anti-fascists...

The verdict in the case above does not de-legitimize the question: do cops get away with murder? Saying it does is deflection on display.

They probably have. And they probably will in the future. And I agree with the verdict of manslaughter. It was not intentional, but the cops neglegence resulted in the someones death. What happened to that guy is awful but the rioters need to know that it was determained to be an accident. But all they see, hear and think is "white cop killed black guy and cop is not going to jail for the rest of his life." The whole thing is a shame.

I agree, except here: "the rioters need to know that it was determained to be an accident" as many a determination has been biased and a cover up. Your statement borders on or stems from an authoritarian view.

My sympathies extend to the officer. He must be horrified and torn over his own actions. Focusing on the rioters and the race card may push things aside, but this poor man has to live with a real life horror.

I've done what the cop did often enough. I once stabbed myself at the sink while doing more than one task. The mind can be in more than one place at a time. I've also thrown something away (my keys/phone) while holding onto the trash.

This cop thought he was tasing a person and shot them. Bad enough. But then to find out the guy dies a little later. A true horror movie come to life.

 

[manu1959]

the officer accidently shot a man and was found guilty of involuntary manslaughter and could face between 0 and 14 years.....

as for the "riots", the usual suspects used this event to go on a crime spree and tag, loot and vandalize parts of their own town....

LA juries...what can you do....

 

[ConHog]

Riotng is never okay? hmmm, tell that to the East Germans, the Filipinos, the Polish, the anti-communists, the anti-fascists...

The verdict in the case above does not de-legitimize the question: do cops get away with murder? Saying it does is deflection on display.

They probably have. And they probably will in the future. And I agree with the verdict of manslaughter. It was not intentional, but the cops neglegence resulted in the someones death. What happened to that guy is awful but the rioters need to know that it was determained to be an accident. But all they see, hear and think is "white cop killed black guy and cop is not going to jail for the rest of his life." The whole thing is a shame.

I agree, except here: "the rioters need to know that it was determained to be an accident" as many a determination has been biased and a cover up. Your statement borders on or stems from an authoritarian view.

My sympathies extend to the officer. He must be horrified and torn over his own actions. Focusing on the rioters and the race card may push things aside, but this poor man has to live with a real life horror.

I've done what the cop did often enough. I once stabbed myself at the sink while doing more than one task. The mind can be in more than one place at a time. I've also thrown something away (my keys/phone) while holding onto the trash.

This cop thought he was tasing a person and shot them. Bad enough. But then to find out the guy dies a little later. A true horror movie come to life.

dante, the sad thing is these rioters were almost certainly the same people who tear up the city anytime an LA sports team wins anything, they aren't really fans and they don't really know about the case, all they know is they have an excuse to tear some shit up. They are fucking animals and who cares about their "agenda?"

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

How is that a legitimate question when in fact THIS cop was found guilty? By the way, rioting is never okay.

Riotng is never okay? hmmm, tell that to the East Germans, the Filipinos, the Polish, the anti-communists, the anti-fascists...

The verdict in the case above does not de-legitimize the question: do cops get away with murder? Saying it does is deflection on display.

Okay, allow me to amend. Rioting is THIS country is never okay. We have a legal system to deal with these issues.

As for this case, the cop was guilty. pretty dumb to draw your gun instead of your taser. do cops get away with murder? Sure , occasionally, as do rich black ex athletes or rap stars. Our system isn't perfect, but it works pretty damn well.

It wasn't dumb in my opinion. Dumb would be drawing the gun and having it accidently go off. The cop's mind had him drawing his taser, and pulling the trigger was no accident. The cop was guilty of an accident, the legal system held him guilty of manslaughter.

I do not deny others get away with murder,. Why you need to raise the idea that others get away with murder in order to say you believe cops get away with murder says lots about your thinking process and your world view.

Our system does not work well, it works better than many broken systems. Innocent people have been put to death.

We have people who would give up freedoms so one person doesn't get killed by a terrorist, yet these same people would often give up nothing to see innocent people not be put to death in their name. the disconnect is frightening.