Romney releases tax records - Now Obozo must release college records

[PoliticalChic]

He's pulling a tax dodge by deferring deductions and credits to keep his rate above 14%, when everyone knows he can file a claim next year and get it down to 10%, which is absolutely obscene.

No one should ever pay more than 10% of their income in taxes. Ever.

How did you come up with that figure....?

...it's the same one mentioned in the Bible....Genesis 41:34

 

[kaz]

The insane spending and give a ways to the rich under W is what got this country into the mess it's in, in the first place

Yes, comrade. All money is the people's money. For the government to take less of someone's money is to "give" them money...

 

[kaz]

-The Romneys claimed a deduction for $2.25 million of those charitable contributions. …

This is where he went wrong. Since Democrats are the ones who want high taxes, they are the only ones who are allowed to take deductions. I don't get it either...

 

[kaz]

Really? If you save up $10,000 out of your wages, okay, that's already been taxed. Then you put your $10,000 into, let's say, a stock. A year later the stock has doubled, you sell it for $20,000.

What do you pay tax on?

You didn't answer my question. Why not? It wasn't rhetorical. I want you to say what gets taxed,

and what DOESN"T, in the above example.

I'll answer your question. What gets taxed:

On the 10K you earned and invested: You paid income tax when you earned it. When you invested it in the company, off the top of my head on your behalf the company paid it's employee's social security taxes, medicare taxes, federal unemployment taxes, state unemployment taxes, local business operating tax, local business asset taxes, sales taxes for everything they bought except direct materials, business income taxes, special taxes for the field they are in, tariffs for any goods they imported, repatriation of money taxes for any money they repatriated, gasoline taxes for company automobiles. If I think about it, I am sure I can come up with plenty more.

On the 10K gain, you paid all those business taxes as well, taxes on any dividends you got and capital gains taxes on the rest.

What doesn't get taxed: Nothing

 

[kaz]

Mittens has released two partial years. This latest shows that he chose not to take legal deductions. he has seven years to file amended returns to get the money and I have no doubt that's what he'll do.

So you criticize Romney, who advocates lower taxes, for not taking deductions he's entitled to while you are just fine with Obama, who advocates higher taxes, for taking EVERY deduction he's entitled to. No level of your own hypocrisy bothers you, does it?

 

[kaz]

he should pay the same amount of tax on his 50 grand that I do on mine, ratewise, all else being equal.

That's all I'm saying.

And if we only tax his money once rather then twice, we can talk...

 

[kaz]

Didn't Reagan not release his transcripts either? Besides, don't repubs think college is a scam anyways?

I don't know if reagan did or not but nobody cared anyway since he was never accused of committing fraud by claiming foreign status to get a scholarship.

And wrote a book that claimed he was born in Kenya

 

[NYcarbineer]

Really? If you save up $10,000 out of your wages, okay, that's already been taxed. Then you put your $10,000 into, let's say, a stock. A year later the stock has doubled, you sell it for $20,000.

What do you pay tax on?

You didn't answer my question. Why not? It wasn't rhetorical. I want you to say what gets taxed,

and what DOESN"T, in the above example.

I'll answer your question. What gets taxed:

On the 10K you earned and invested: You paid income tax when you earned it. When you invested it in the company, off the top of my head on your behalf the company paid it's employee's social security taxes, medicare taxes, federal unemployment taxes, state unemployment taxes, local business operating tax, local business asset taxes, sales taxes for everything they bought except direct materials, business income taxes, special taxes for the field they are in, tariffs for any goods they imported, repatriation of money taxes for any money they repatriated, gasoline taxes for company automobiles. If I think about it, I am sure I can come up with plenty more.

On the 10K gain, you paid all those business taxes as well, taxes on any dividends you got and capital gains taxes on the rest.

What doesn't get taxed: Nothing

Your original 10,000 doesn't get taxed again when you invest it.

Why should the profit on the stock be taxed differently than wages earned?

 

[NYcarbineer]

he should pay the same amount of tax on his 50 grand that I do on mine, ratewise, all else being equal.

That's all I'm saying.

And if we only tax his money once rather then twice, we can talk...

He has never paid tax on his profit. He bought the stock for 10 grand sold it for 20. The 10 grand profit is brand new money that he has acquired. He's never paid any tax on it whatsoever.

On the other hand, if I took the original 10 grand and decided to start a parttime business with it - let's just say I decide to buy a truck and start some sort of parttime hauling business -

let's say I make 10 grand profit the first year. What's my tax rate?

 

[skookerasbil]

Ummm...........just a little message to the k00ks.

The tax issue is officially deaD. Four million + in charity by Romney makes it that way.


Sorry s0ns......thats the way the ball bounces politically. You've been pwned..........because the political center that will decide the election and these same people see 4 million + to charity and they dont give a shit about Romneys tax rate. YUk.......yuk............ Because you see.....that political bloc isnt jealous and miserable of others success. Only the k00ks are insalnely jealous of successful people.


Thats gay..........and you lose.

 

[Murf76]

Really? If you save up $10,000 out of your wages, okay, that's already been taxed. Then you put your $10,000 into, let's say, a stock. A year later the stock has doubled, you sell it for $20,000.

What do you pay tax on?

You didn't answer my question. Why not? It wasn't rhetorical. I want you to say what gets taxed,

and what DOESN"T, in the above example.

I'll answer your question. What gets taxed:

On the 10K you earned and invested: You paid income tax when you earned it. When you invested it in the company, off the top of my head on your behalf the company paid it's employee's social security taxes, medicare taxes, federal unemployment taxes, state unemployment taxes, local business operating tax, local business asset taxes, sales taxes for everything they bought except direct materials, business income taxes, special taxes for the field they are in, tariffs for any goods they imported, repatriation of money taxes for any money they repatriated, gasoline taxes for company automobiles. If I think about it, I am sure I can come up with plenty more.

On the 10K gain, you paid all those business taxes as well, taxes on any dividends you got and capital gains taxes on the rest.

What doesn't get taxed: Nothing

Your original 10,000 doesn't get taxed again when you invest it.

Why should the profit on the stock be taxed differently than wages earned?

Your original 10,000 was taxed when you earned it, before it's invested. Then your money is utilized, along with other investors as needed by the company you invested in. As Kaz pointed out, that would include taxation on all sorts of transactions. When the company makes a profit, that money is taxed at the corporate rate before any of the investors get dividends, then taxes are paid on dividends.

On capital gains, the rate for short-sales can be considerably higher than the 15% for long-term sales, taxed as normal income. And depending on how much money you've earned, your taxes might be as low a 0%.
Capital Gains: At What Rate Will Your Sale Be Taxed? - SmartMoney.com
Bear in mind though, that the money you bought your stock with has already been subject to taxation as earned income. And once you own it, it's an asset, and one which is highly subject to risk. It might grow, it might fail completely and if it does you will only be able to claim a deduction of $1500.-$3000. annually, depending on how you file. That 15% we see typically is more than fair. If you were selling any of your other personal assets, you'd be fit to be tied if the feds claimed more than that.

You greedy bunch need to get the hell over yourselves. 53% of Americans pay PLENTY in federal taxes. Problem is, that while tax revenues have tripled since 1965 in adjusted dollars, spending has more than quintupled.
We've got a SPENDING problem. And this administration can't even be bothered to make a fucking budget. That's pathetic. And Barack Obama is undeserving of another term for allowing it.

 

[Annie]

TaxProf Blog: Mitt Romney Releases 2011 Tax Return

Really, are you guys saying Pricewaterhousecoopers is lying?

They have as much credibility as they had with Enron. They do what they are paid to do.

PwC: Sharing the Hot Seat with Andersen? - Businessweek

So far in the Enron scandal, Arthur Andersen has borne all the weight of the accounting profession's failures. But that's about to change. BusinessWeek has learned that congressional investigators are taking a keen interest in PricewaterhouseCoopers' role -- or roles -- in deals between Enron and its captive partnerships. A congressional source says the House Energy & Commerce Committee is collecting documents and interviewing officials at PwC.

At issue is the firm's work for both Enron and those controversial debt-shielding partnerships, set up and controlled by then-Chief Financial Officer Andrew Fastow. On two occasions -- in August, 1999, and May, 2000 -- the world's biggest accounting firm certified that Enron was getting a fair deal when it exchanged its own stock for options and notes issued by the Fastow-controlled partnerships.

Investigators plan to question the complex valuation calculations that underlie the opinions. Enron ultimately lost hundreds of millions of dollars on the deals. A PwC spokesman says the firm stands by its assessment of the deals' value at the time.

So you believe that PWC is lying about Romney's taxes?

 

[Annie]

Romney has proven he is a man of honor and integrity while obozo's refusal to release his college records is proof that he lied and claimed foreign status to get a scholarship 20 years ago. That is the crime of fraud and all repubs must shout this .

Why is it only Romney who is characterized as a "man of honor abd integrity" when he happens to release another year's tax returns - something President Obama has already done?

If Mitt wants to have the same "honor and integrity" that his father received for releasing tax information, he has 10 more years of returns to go.

With all due respect, Romney's timing in this whole matter is more than a little suspect - a suspicious mind might suggest that it was nothing more than a crass attempt to divert public and media attention away from his most recent mistakes that have been generating so much negative criticism not only from the Democrats, but even within his own party.

See the convo with Edthecynic.

 

[Annie]

Mitt Romney offered a partial snapshot of his vast personal fortune late Monday, disclosing income of $21.7 million in 2010 and $20.9 million last year — virtually all of it profits, dividends or interest from investments.

He released his 2011 tax records.

So what?

He released much more than that, as you've already admitted.

 

[Annie]

Romney has proven he is a man of honor and integrity while obozo's refusal to release his college records is proof that he lied and claimed foreign status to get a scholarship 20 years ago. That is the crime of fraud and all repubs must shout this .

Obama's resume speaks loud and clear of his college records. Why should obama realease his college records wth no other president have had to? All presidents have released more than half a years of tax records.



http://cdn.theladders.net/static/pdf/Senator_Obama_Resume.pdf

Actually, they do not. There's no explanation of how he got elected to the position on the law review. There's nothing to explain his being admitted to the law school, indeed when reading his autobiographies, two mind you, one just shakes their head. So, was it legacy?

 

[Care4all]

Really, are you guys saying Pricewaterhousecoopers is lying?

They have as much credibility as they had with Enron. They do what they are paid to do.

PwC: Sharing the Hot Seat with Andersen? - Businessweek

So far in the Enron scandal, Arthur Andersen has borne all the weight of the accounting profession's failures. But that's about to change. BusinessWeek has learned that congressional investigators are taking a keen interest in PricewaterhouseCoopers' role -- or roles -- in deals between Enron and its captive partnerships. A congressional source says the House Energy & Commerce Committee is collecting documents and interviewing officials at PwC.

At issue is the firm's work for both Enron and those controversial debt-shielding partnerships, set up and controlled by then-Chief Financial Officer Andrew Fastow. On two occasions -- in August, 1999, and May, 2000 -- the world's biggest accounting firm certified that Enron was getting a fair deal when it exchanged its own stock for options and notes issued by the Fastow-controlled partnerships.

Investigators plan to question the complex valuation calculations that underlie the opinions. Enron ultimately lost hundreds of millions of dollars on the deals. A PwC spokesman says the firm stands by its assessment of the deals' value at the time.

So you believe that PWC is lying about Romney's taxes?

IF Romney was one of the 4000 that received Amnesty, part of the Amnesty agreement in order to not spend time in the slammer, was for these tax evaders to AMEND their tax returns for all previous years that they evaded paying taxes, and pay the taxes that were evaded and due.

Thus just reported that X amount of taxes were paid by him, wouldn't tell the whole story....

the Devil is in the details of the return....thus the request to see the returns. He could have paid near zero for the past decade, but had to amend them and pay back what he owed when he agreed to the Amnesty program.

Don't know if he was a part of this Amnesty program or not, but he and his wife did have an account in this same Swiss Bank that was busted and gave the names of the 4000 Americans that committed tax evasion.

ONLY releasing his actual returns would clear all that up....

 

[Annie]

They have as much credibility as they had with Enron. They do what they are paid to do.

PwC: Sharing the Hot Seat with Andersen? - Businessweek

So far in the Enron scandal, Arthur Andersen has borne all the weight of the accounting profession's failures. But that's about to change. BusinessWeek has learned that congressional investigators are taking a keen interest in PricewaterhouseCoopers' role -- or roles -- in deals between Enron and its captive partnerships. A congressional source says the House Energy & Commerce Committee is collecting documents and interviewing officials at PwC.

At issue is the firm's work for both Enron and those controversial debt-shielding partnerships, set up and controlled by then-Chief Financial Officer Andrew Fastow. On two occasions -- in August, 1999, and May, 2000 -- the world's biggest accounting firm certified that Enron was getting a fair deal when it exchanged its own stock for options and notes issued by the Fastow-controlled partnerships.

Investigators plan to question the complex valuation calculations that underlie the opinions. Enron ultimately lost hundreds of millions of dollars on the deals. A PwC spokesman says the firm stands by its assessment of the deals' value at the time.

So you believe that PWC is lying about Romney's taxes?

IF Romney was one of the 4000 that received Amnesty, part of the Amnesty agreement in order to not spend time in the slammer, was for these tax evaders to AMEND their tax returns for all previous years that they evaded paying taxes, and pay the taxes that were evaded and due.

Thus just reported that X amount of taxes were paid by him, wouldn't tell the whole story....

the Devil is in the details of the return....thus the request to see the returns. He could have paid near zero for the past decade, but had to amend them and pay back what he owed when he agreed to the Amnesty program.

Don't know if he was a part of this Amnesty program or not, but he and his wife did have an account in this same Swiss Bank that was busted and gave the names of the 4000 Americans that committed tax evasion.

ONLY releasing his actual returns would clear all that up....

Huh? You are playing on the response of someone to Enron? I thought better of you. This was about PWC speaking on Romney's returns over 20 years.

The campaign also released a statement from PriceWaterhouseCoopers on the Romneys’ tax filings over 20 years, from 1990 – 2009:

* In each year during the entire 20-year period, the Romneys owed both state and federal income taxes.
* Over the entire 20-year period, the average annual effective federal tax rate was 20.20%.
* Over the entire 20-year period, the lowest annual effective federal personal tax rate was 13.66%.
* Over the entire 20-year period, the Romneys gave to charity an average of 13.45% of their adjusted gross income.
* Over the entire 20-year period, the total federal and state taxes owed plus the total charitable donations deducted represented 38.49% of total AGI.

The Romney campaign also released this letter from former IRS Commissioner (and current Skadden partner) Fred Goldberg:

These returns reflect the complexity of our tax laws and the types of investment activity that I would anticipate for persons in their circumstances. There is no indication or suggestion of any tax-motivated or aggressive tax planning activities. In my judgment, they have fully satisfied their responsibilities as taxpayers. They have done so by relying on a highly reputable return preparer and other advisors, who have in turn relied primarily on information provided by third parties to them and to the IRS. The end result of that process has been returns that include a multitude of schedules, IRS forms and accompanying statements that provide appropriate transparency and the proper payment of taxes that Governor and Mrs. Romney owe under current law.

 

[editec]

Romney released his 2011 tax return, but still refuses to release the previous 9 years of his tax records.

Why?

We think we know what he's hiding. He's hiding the fact that he pays very little if any taxes most years.

But he has every right to his privacy.

I believe that Mitt should stick to his guns and NOT release those tax returns.

 

[Care4all]

So you believe that PWC is lying about Romney's taxes?

IF Romney was one of the 4000 that received Amnesty, part of the Amnesty agreement in order to not spend time in the slammer, was for these tax evaders to AMEND their tax returns for all previous years that they evaded paying taxes, and pay the taxes that were evaded and due.

Thus just reported that X amount of taxes were paid by him, wouldn't tell the whole story....

the Devil is in the details of the return....thus the request to see the returns. He could have paid near zero for the past decade, but had to amend them and pay back what he owed when he agreed to the Amnesty program.

Don't know if he was a part of this Amnesty program or not, but he and his wife did have an account in this same Swiss Bank that was busted and gave the names of the 4000 Americans that committed tax evasion.

ONLY releasing his actual returns would clear all that up....

Huh? You are playing on the response of someone to Enron? I thought better of you. This was about PWC speaking on Romney's returns over 20 years.

The campaign also released a statement from PriceWaterhouseCoopers on the Romneys’ tax filings over 20 years, from 1990 – 2009:

* In each year during the entire 20-year period, the Romneys owed both state and federal income taxes.
* Over the entire 20-year period, the average annual effective federal tax rate was 20.20%.
* Over the entire 20-year period, the lowest annual effective federal personal tax rate was 13.66%.
* Over the entire 20-year period, the Romneys gave to charity an average of 13.45% of their adjusted gross income.
* Over the entire 20-year period, the total federal and state taxes owed plus the total charitable donations deducted represented 38.49% of total AGI.

The Romney campaign also released this letter from former IRS Commissioner (and current Skadden partner) Fred Goldberg:

These returns reflect the complexity of our tax laws and the types of investment activity that I would anticipate for persons in their circumstances. There is no indication or suggestion of any tax-motivated or aggressive tax planning activities. In my judgment, they have fully satisfied their responsibilities as taxpayers. They have done so by relying on a highly reputable return preparer and other advisors, who have in turn relied primarily on information provided by third parties to them and to the IRS. The end result of that process has been returns that include a multitude of schedules, IRS forms and accompanying statements that provide appropriate transparency and the proper payment of taxes that Governor and Mrs. Romney owe under current law.

what i am saying is those effective tax rates paid, COULD BE the effective tax rates paid AFTER he was forced to amend them, IF he was part of the Amnesty program.

And the statement from Fred Goldberg, was a statement about romney's 2010 and 2011 returns.....the ones that were released.

the 2009 return (and earlier), would show whether Amnesty was taken or not...

NOT the 2010 or the 2011 returns that mr goldberg commented on....

 

[Annie]

IF Romney was one of the 4000 that received Amnesty, part of the Amnesty agreement in order to not spend time in the slammer, was for these tax evaders to AMEND their tax returns for all previous years that they evaded paying taxes, and pay the taxes that were evaded and due.

Thus just reported that X amount of taxes were paid by him, wouldn't tell the whole story....

the Devil is in the details of the return....thus the request to see the returns. He could have paid near zero for the past decade, but had to amend them and pay back what he owed when he agreed to the Amnesty program.

Don't know if he was a part of this Amnesty program or not, but he and his wife did have an account in this same Swiss Bank that was busted and gave the names of the 4000 Americans that committed tax evasion.

ONLY releasing his actual returns would clear all that up....

Huh? You are playing on the response of someone to Enron? I thought better of you. This was about PWC speaking on Romney's returns over 20 years.

The campaign also released a statement from PriceWaterhouseCoopers on the Romneys’ tax filings over 20 years, from 1990 – 2009:

* In each year during the entire 20-year period, the Romneys owed both state and federal income taxes.
* Over the entire 20-year period, the average annual effective federal tax rate was 20.20%.
* Over the entire 20-year period, the lowest annual effective federal personal tax rate was 13.66%.
* Over the entire 20-year period, the Romneys gave to charity an average of 13.45% of their adjusted gross income.
* Over the entire 20-year period, the total federal and state taxes owed plus the total charitable donations deducted represented 38.49% of total AGI.

The Romney campaign also released this letter from former IRS Commissioner (and current Skadden partner) Fred Goldberg:

These returns reflect the complexity of our tax laws and the types of investment activity that I would anticipate for persons in their circumstances. There is no indication or suggestion of any tax-motivated or aggressive tax planning activities. In my judgment, they have fully satisfied their responsibilities as taxpayers. They have done so by relying on a highly reputable return preparer and other advisors, who have in turn relied primarily on information provided by third parties to them and to the IRS. The end result of that process has been returns that include a multitude of schedules, IRS forms and accompanying statements that provide appropriate transparency and the proper payment of taxes that Governor and Mrs. Romney owe under current law.

what i am saying is those effective tax rates paid, COULD BE the effective tax rates paid AFTER he was forced to amend them, IF he was part of the Amnesty program.

And the statement from Fred Goldberg, was a statement about romney's 2010 and 2011 returns.....the ones that were released.

the 2009 return (and earlier), would show whether Amnesty was taken or not...

NOT the 2010 or the 2011 returns that mr goldberg commented on....

I'm hoping you are realizing you are getting silly here. The fully released returns are online. The summaries of 20 years are by PWC.