Right to Work and Government Bankruptcy

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Foxfyre, Jan 28, 2011.

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Check all statements that most closely match your opinion:

  1. States should have closed union shops if they want them.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. Unions should not be able to deny people jobs who don't want to join a union.

    4 vote(s)
    80.0%
  3. States should be able to reorganize under bankruptcy protection.

    2 vote(s)
    40.0%
  4. States should not be able to declare bankruptcy.

    1 vote(s)
    20.0%
  5. I don't completely agree with any of the statements. I'll explain in my post.

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  1. Foxfyre
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    Foxfyre Eternal optimist Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    There are two major and interrelated issues bubbling just under the media radar but that will likely erupt fairly soon now.

    ONE is consideration of a new federal law that would allow states to declare bankruptcy as municipalities can now do. Short of another massive federal bailout, which the nation cannot afford, this may be the only solution for a number of states drowning in red ink. A limited bankruptcy would allow states to reorganize uncumbered by union constraints that are sinking them.

    According to Rasmussen, most Americans currently oppose this initiative.

    THE OTHER is a GOP push, mostly led by Rand Paul, for a National Right to Work law that could effectively bust unions by making it illegal to require workers to join a union or pay union dues in order to get or keep their jobs.

    According to Rasmussen, more than 80% of Americans favor this initiative.

    So what say you?
     
  2. Foxfyre
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    Foxfyre Eternal optimist Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    Excerpts of a mailer that is being circulated under Rand Paul's name:

     
  3. Foxfyre
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    Foxfyre Eternal optimist Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    I picked up the following from a blog but saw the op-ed piece yesterday. In the LA Times, Jeb Bush argued for limited bankruptcy for states that have no other way to get out of the current union entanglements and balance their budgets. So far the unions have not been willing to renegotiate or compromise on anything.

     
  4. Foxfyre
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    Foxfyre Eternal optimist Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    Okay, one more post and then if there isn't any response, I'll figure this one is of no interest to our USMB members.

    The question to be answered here is: Do you want unions to be more powerful? Or do you want unions to be less powerful?

    The folks at Redstate are raising eyebrows at a recent executive order by President Obama that they see having potential increase power of unions at all levels, most especially at the federal level:

    If the initiative to mandate right to work fails, many more of us could see our jobs being unionized and the unions having more power than ever.
     
  5. Madeline
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    Madeline BANNED

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    Sorry, Foxfyre, I didn't see your Op till now. Bankruptcy is worrisome to me but if we allow it, it should not be merely to permit states to escape union contracts. That is not even the source of most states' financial distress -- number one would be underfunded pension obligations. If the bankruptcies are permitted, every state obligation -- from unpaid salary to unpaid Medicaid -- should be up for grabs.

    As for "right to work", well, many states (including Florida) already have such laws. They are not enough. IMO, no employee needs both civil service protection and union protection -- I would outlaw public employee unions altogether.


     
  6. Foxfyre
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    Foxfyre Eternal optimist Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    Interesting Maddie.

    The problem is that the unions will not--repeat will not i.e as flatly refuse--to even discuss much less see if there is a way to renegotiate unsustainable union contracts. And the federal law prohibits a state (or anybody else) from outlawing a union.

    For those states billions in the hole, the only way out is:

    1) the federal government bails them out again without correcting any of the root causes of the deficits - or -

    2) the state would be allowed to declare limited bankruptcy that would allow them to reorganize and THAT would break the hold of the unions on the state budget.

    I disagree that unions are not most of the problem. The evidence seems to show otherwise.

    Further, our fearless leader's executive order seems bent on giving the unions even more power rather than management at the federal, state, municipal levels and in the private sector.
     
  7. Madeline
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    I rather doubt "most" unions refuse to renegotiate, Foxfyre. That hasn't been the case here. I just don't think the problem is predominately high current salary and benefit levels....though I am sure they contribute. I think it's underfunded pensions.

    But as you have pointed out, it's a serious problem and I do agree, the feds should not bail out the states.
     
  8. iamwhatiseem
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    iamwhatiseem Gold Member

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    Unions single largest "accomplishment" in the last 20 years is a great migration of labor to other countries.
     
  9. Foxfyre
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    Foxfyre Eternal optimist Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    But why are the pension underfunded Madeline? That's the issue we're dealing with here. Like all entitlements they start out relative small and very manageable. You have so many more workers than retirees that you almost don't miss the small percentage of taxes taken to support the retirement fund and benefits. And the increase in benefits negotiated by the next candidate in return for union support is also so small that it doesn't seem to be worth fighting.

    But over the decades, those tiny increments add up to big percentages plus you have more and more retirees in relation to the number of workers paying taxes. And one day the fund is paying out more than it is taking in even as those negotiated annual increases continue to accrue. And even as more corrupt politicians negotiate even more attractive and more expensive benefits for the unions in return for union support. And one day the state finds itself in a big hole and is still digging with no visible way out and the unions aren't willing to give an inch to help.

    And that executive order the President just issued looks very much like he intends that the unions have the upper hand in ALL wage/hour/benefits negotiations now even in areas they used to not control.
     

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