Religious people really don't know much about religion

[ABikerSailor]

How can someone be religious and not know about their religion? You can't live practices you dont know. It just doesnt make sense.

Yes Avatar it does.. sadly enough.

How many people go to church and pray, listen to the pastor, preacher, or whatever their religious leader is but don't understand the meanings within the teachings. How many people go to church every day and can't even list the Ten Commandments off the top of their head? To be honest I can't do it.. and the Commandments are the base ruleset of ANY Judeo-Christian belief structure.. they are rules on how to live and conduct yourself sent down from our Lord God. You tell a kid "Don't steal" and leave it at that the kid might take a shirt and say they were just borrowing it. If you don't go in depth on a topic how is someone supposed to understand?

You can follow a faith, something that in your heart seems to be true, but if you never bother to learn anything outside of "This is what we are telling you is true" then you don't know your religion. I have actually had people try to claim that Christians would never kill someone or that the Catholic Church has never done anything evil.. I mean give me a break.

To tell the truth, God put all we REALLY need to know in only 2 commandments, which Yeshua told everyone........"Love one another as you would love yourself, but above all, love God".

The first 3 commandments are there to remind you to love God.

The next one is "Thou shalt not murder", which means don't kill each other needlessly. However, in cases of defense of your country or your home and family? Self defense is self defense, and you are allowed to defend yourself.

But don't murder.

Then? The next 6 are there to tell you how to keep FROM getting murdered. Commit adultry? Chances are, the person that they are with will come looking for you. Steal from someone? Same thing. Lying and committing falsehoods? Well......in certain cases a lie will kill you, especially if you are sick and lie to the doctor.

And then, just remember the Sabbath and keep it Holy, as well as honor your parents.

Simple really, all one has to do is investigate a bit.

 

[Care4all]

And Terral, your posts sometimes lead me to believe you're from another planet as your avatar suggests, but I'll name a few things i don't get.

Why is the death of Jesus portrayed so differently in the earlier gospel (Matthew) versus the later gospels? For example, the last thing we hear from Jesus in Matthew, aside from a scream, is 'Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?' Meaning, 'My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?' (Matthew 27:46). That's just not something somebody who considers himself God would say. It's almost like a self-invalidation of the claim of divinity because you wouldn't say, "Myself, myself, what have I forsaken me?"

Then, for whatever reason, the lamentation was not mentioned in later gospels, instead Jesus says totally different things:

Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Then there's the whole Geneology problem:

Matthew 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

Luke 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.

The geneologies are totally different, actually. Some apologists say one refers to Mary, but both verses explicitly state they are referring to Joseph. Not that Joseph should matter, because he is Jesus's adoptive father. Jesus being a descendent of David via Joseph is meaningless in that sense, and it would not have made sense to patriarchal Jewish society even if they had been referring to Mary's geneology.

And the whole virgin birth idea would not have made sense given patriarchy, as one could not be a descendent of David while being born of a virgin. Of course this is because there actually is no prophecy in the OT about the messiah being born of a virgin.

Christ fulfilled what was prophesied and said about Him....

He said what psalm 22 said he would say...........

Psalm 22 (New International Version)

Psalm 22
For the director of music. To the tune of "The Doe of the Morning." A psalm of David.
1 My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?
Why are you so far from saving me,
so far from the words of my groaning?
2 O my God, I cry out by day, but you do not answer,
by night, and am not silent.

3 Yet you are enthroned as the Holy One;
you are the praise of Israel. [a]

4 In you our fathers put their trust;
they trusted and you delivered them.

5 They cried to you and were saved;
in you they trusted and were not disappointed.

6 But I am a worm and not a man,
scorned by men and despised by the people.

7 All who see me mock me;
they hurl insults, shaking their heads:

8 "He trusts in the LORD;
let the LORD rescue him.
Let him deliver him,
since he delights in him."

9 Yet you brought me out of the womb;
you made me trust in you
even at my mother's breast.

10 From birth I was cast upon you;
from my mother's womb you have been my God.

11 Do not be far from me,
for trouble is near
and there is no one to help.

12 Many bulls surround me;
strong bulls of Bashan encircle me.

13 Roaring lions tearing their prey
open their mouths wide against me.

14 I am poured out like water,
and all my bones are out of joint.
My heart has turned to wax;
it has melted away within me.

15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd,
and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth;
you lay me in the dust of death.

16 Dogs have surrounded me;
a band of evil men has encircled me,
they have pierced [c] my hands and my feet.

17 I can count all my bones;
people stare and gloat over me.

18 They divide my garments among them
and cast lots for my clothing.

19 But you, O LORD, be not far off;
O my Strength, come quickly to help me.

20 Deliver my life from the sword,
my precious life from the power of the dogs.

21 Rescue me from the mouth of the lions;
save [d] me from the horns of the wild oxen.

22 I will declare your name to my brothers;
in the congregation I will praise you.

23 You who fear the LORD, praise him!
All you descendants of Jacob, honor him!
Revere him, all you descendants of Israel!

24 For he has not despised or disdained
the suffering of the afflicted one;
he has not hidden his face from him
but has listened to his cry for help.

25 From you comes the theme of my praise in the great assembly;
before those who fear you [e] will I fulfill my vows.

26 The poor will eat and be satisfied;
they who seek the LORD will praise him—
may your hearts live forever!

27 All the ends of the earth
will remember and turn to the LORD,
and all the families of the nations
will bow down before him,

28 for dominion belongs to the LORD
and he rules over the nations.

29 All the rich of the earth will feast and worship;
all who go down to the dust will kneel before him—
those who cannot keep themselves alive.

30 Posterity will serve him;
future generations will be told about the Lord.

31 They will proclaim his righteousness
to a people yet unborn—
for he has done it.

 

[LiveUninhibited]

And Terral, your posts sometimes lead me to believe you're from another planet as your avatar suggests, but I'll name a few things i don't get.

Why is the death of Jesus portrayed so differently in the earlier gospel (Matthew) versus the later gospels? For example, the last thing we hear from Jesus in Matthew, aside from a scream, is 'Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?' Meaning, 'My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?' (Matthew 27:46). That's just not something somebody who considers himself God would say. It's almost like a self-invalidation of the claim of divinity because you wouldn't say, "Myself, myself, what have I forsaken me?"

Then, for whatever reason, the lamentation was not mentioned in later gospels, instead Jesus says totally different things:

Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

Then there's the whole Geneology problem:





The geneologies are totally different, actually. Some apologists say one refers to Mary, but both verses explicitly state they are referring to Joseph. Not that Joseph should matter, because he is Jesus's adoptive father. Jesus being a descendent of David via Joseph is meaningless in that sense, and it would not have made sense to patriarchal Jewish society even if they had been referring to Mary's geneology.

And the whole virgin birth idea would not have made sense given patriarchy, as one could not be a descendent of David while being born of a virgin. Of course this is because there actually is no prophecy in the OT about the messiah being born of a virgin.

Christ fulfilled what was prophesied and said about Him....

He said what psalm 22 said he would say...........

Psalm 22 (New International Version)

Psalm 22
For the director of music. To the tune of "The Doe of the Morning." A psalm of David.
1 My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?
Why are you so far from saving me,
so far from the words of my groaning?
2 O my God, I cry out by day, but you do not answer,
by night, and am not silent.

3 Yet you are enthroned as the Holy One;
you are the praise of Israel. [a]

4 In you our fathers put their trust;
they trusted and you delivered them.

5 They cried to you and were saved;
in you they trusted and were not disappointed.

6 But I am a worm and not a man,
scorned by men and despised by the people.

7 All who see me mock me;
they hurl insults, shaking their heads:

8 "He trusts in the LORD;
let the LORD rescue him.
Let him deliver him,
since he delights in him."

9 Yet you brought me out of the womb;
you made me trust in you
even at my mother's breast.

10 From birth I was cast upon you;
from my mother's womb you have been my God.

11 Do not be far from me,
for trouble is near
and there is no one to help.

12 Many bulls surround me;
strong bulls of Bashan encircle me.

13 Roaring lions tearing their prey
open their mouths wide against me.

14 I am poured out like water,
and all my bones are out of joint.
My heart has turned to wax;
it has melted away within me.

15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd,
and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth;
you lay me in the dust of death.

16 Dogs have surrounded me;
a band of evil men has encircled me,
they have pierced [c] my hands and my feet.

17 I can count all my bones;
people stare and gloat over me.

18 They divide my garments among them
and cast lots for my clothing.

19 But you, O LORD, be not far off;
O my Strength, come quickly to help me.

20 Deliver my life from the sword,
my precious life from the power of the dogs.

21 Rescue me from the mouth of the lions;
save [d] me from the horns of the wild oxen.

22 I will declare your name to my brothers;
in the congregation I will praise you.

23 You who fear the LORD, praise him!
All you descendants of Jacob, honor him!
Revere him, all you descendants of Israel!

24 For he has not despised or disdained
the suffering of the afflicted one;
he has not hidden his face from him
but has listened to his cry for help.

25 From you comes the theme of my praise in the great assembly;
before those who fear you [e] will I fulfill my vows.

26 The poor will eat and be satisfied;
they who seek the LORD will praise him—
may your hearts live forever!

27 All the ends of the earth
will remember and turn to the LORD,
and all the families of the nations
will bow down before him,

28 for dominion belongs to the LORD
and he rules over the nations.

29 All the rich of the earth will feast and worship;
all who go down to the dust will kneel before him—
those who cannot keep themselves alive.

30 Posterity will serve him;
future generations will be told about the Lord.

31 They will proclaim his righteousness
to a people yet unborn—
for he has done it.

Source: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm 22&version=31#fen-NIV-14220b

It is a bit irritating for somebody on either side wading through alleged prophecies in the OT. First we see that pierced might be a mistranslation, as footnote c suggests. Who knows which side was blinded by theological bias, or if the integrity of the pre-AD writings were even maintained. Then it's a matter of interpretation. Is this Psalm trying to teach the reader a lesson about keeping faith in hard times, prophesizing about Jesus, or both? It doesn't say what its intent is. It doesn't say, "The Messiah will say." And why not? Why wouldn't it want to be more clear? That and its poetic tools make it more interesting to read, but also confound the message for a book that has such a serious purpose.

 

[jeffrockit]

Religious people really don't know much about religion

kittenkoder has this in her sig line....

explain....how is it then that "non religious" people know more about religion, that is what the comment means...let's assume it doesn't because kittencoder will tell us it doesn't....so then, if religious people don't, who then does?

The quote is from Mahr... that should say it all.

and if you watched his movie, you would see why he made the statement. I am not saying it is completly true but most of the religious people he interviews don't know shit about their own religion.

Yeah and I am sure he used a wide cross section to interview. He would never just cherry pick the people. His obvious hatred for all thing religious makes his little movie about as truthful as WWE wrestling but without the entertainment.

 

[LiveUninhibited]

The quote is from Mahr... that should say it all.

and if you watched his movie, you would see why he made the statement. I am not saying it is completly true but most of the religious people he interviews don't know shit about their own religion.

Yeah and I am sure he used a wide cross section to interview. He would never just cherry pick the people. His obvious hatred for all thing religious makes his little movie about as truthful as WWE wrestling but without the entertainment.

I'm not sure where you get the hatred thing, but you are correct that interviewing a bunch of people doesn't constitute a quantitative study.

I hate WWE wrestling.

 

[ABikerSailor]

You guys DO realize that Passion plays were a creation of the Catholic church, right?

They were put on to inflame people against the Jews for the Crusades.

 

[Amanda]

The quote is from Mahr... that should say it all.

and if you watched his movie, you would see why he made the statement. I am not saying it is completly true but most of the religious people he interviews don't know shit about their own religion.

Yeah and I am sure he used a wide cross section to interview. He would never just cherry pick the people. His obvious hatred for all thing religious makes his little movie about as truthful as WWE wrestling but without the entertainment.

I haven't seen his movie and I don't plan to because I'm not going to give him any money and I don't want to see his anti-religion propaganda. Obviously he's trying to make a point so why would he show anything that undermined it?

 

[KittenKoder]

and if you watched his movie, you would see why he made the statement. I am not saying it is completly true but most of the religious people he interviews don't know shit about their own religion.

Yeah and I am sure he used a wide cross section to interview. He would never just cherry pick the people. His obvious hatred for all thing religious makes his little movie about as truthful as WWE wrestling but without the entertainment.

I haven't seen his movie and I don't plan to because I'm not going to give him any money and I don't want to see his anti-religion propaganda. Obviously he's trying to make a point so why would he show anything that undermined it?

No, the only reason people don't watch things that oppose their views is because they fear that their fragile card houses will fall. I know a few very strong christians who have seen many "anti-religious" movies, shows, etc. and walk away unchanged, because they already knew the facts that they show. As for "giving them money", most of these are shown for free, and even then do a search online and you will find a link to a free copy you can watch without spending a dime. They got their money already so you are not hurting them by doing this. It's called testing your beliefs, if facts that contradict your religious views change your mind then you didn't really believe, and this is why I agree with the statement that religious people really don't know much about religion. Somewhere along the line we lost our understanding of what religion is, and why we need it, instead now people think that religion is the end all.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Very good post Kitten.

 

[KittenKoder]

Very good post Kitten.

Thanks. I was never like Amanda, even when I was christian. Oddly it wasn't any one movie or fact that caused me to start not liking that specific religion, it was justifying lies that made me no longer like that religion, being told lies as a child while being told that it's a sin, then when I found out they were lies that was it, instead of perpetuating it by remaining christian I found my own religion. After many years of searching I found one that I liked, completely honest, and capable of evolving to match scientific advancements without any resistance. Personally I am not really against people following their own religions, that would make me a hypocrite, it's those who refuse to learn about what they are following that gets to me. If you want to believe in myths, fine, just don't whine and boohoo when people say that they are just myths. Hell, I believe that the universe was created when some really powerful god decided to masturbate ... seriously ... not even close to scientific but until science has a more valid answer I am believing it.

 

[Terral]

Hi Care4all:

Heli was mary's father, it is her geneology that is traced.... reasons why this was done are here: BIBLE STUDY MANUALS: GENEALOGY OF JESUS CHRIST

No. Neither genealogical record has ANYTHING to do with Mary at all. Scripture says,

"When He began His ministry, Jesus Himself was about thirty years of age, being, 'as was supposed, the son of Joseph, the son of Eli (Heli #2242), the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, the son of Melchi, the son of Jannai, the son of Joseph . . .". Luke 3:23.

Joseph is the son of Eli (Heli) every day of the week and twice on Sunday and you will not find the "son of Mary" in either genealogy anywhere. Both genealogical records include “Joseph” (Wiki) from David’s line through Solomon (Royal line = Matthew) and through Nathan (natural line = Luke). Any argument to force Mary into Heli’s bloodline transforms Joseph and Mary ‘brother and sister.’ That kind of argument is ruled out by Scripture itself, because Mary and Elizabeth (Zacharias’s wife) are relatives/kin (Luke 1:36 = syggenes #4773) from the ‘daughters of Aaron’ (Luke 1:5). Zacharias ‘and’ Elizabeth ‘and’ Mary are from the ‘priestly line’ (water witnesses/priests) where Joseph is from the ‘royal line’ (kingly line = blood witness) and a ‘son of David’ (Matt. 1:20) making ‘him’ eligible to ‘father’ the Messiah. Mary’s priestly (water witness) genealogy is discounted by Scripture in Hebrews 7:

“Now if perfection was through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the people received the Law [= Moses/Aaron]), what further need was there for another priest to arise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be designated according to the order of Aaron [Luke 1:5 again]? For when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place a change of law also. For the one concerning whom these things are spoken belongs to another tribe [kingly line], from which no one has officiated at the altar. For it is evident that our Lord was descended from Judah, a tribe with reference to which Moses spoke nothing concerning priests.” Hebrews 7:11-14.

The reason “it is evident that our Lord was descended from Judah” is because Jesus Christ is the “supposed son of Joseph” having NOTHING to do with priests at all. If Scripture intended for ANYONE to draft a genealogical record through ‘Mary,’ then her ‘priestly’ lineage ‘would’ become a factor and Jesus Christ ‘would’ have the blood of a ‘priest’ and thereby be the ‘supposed son of a priest’ and nullify what is written right here in Hebrews 7. You cannot recognize Elizabeth (John the Baptist’s mother) and Mary as ‘blood relatives/kin’ and from the daughters of Aaron ‘and’ force Mary into Joseph’s ‘kingly’ bloodline too, unless you are also willing to break God’s Living Word that cannot be broken (John 10:35).

Jesus Christ still teaches that among those born of women John the Baptist is greatest (Matt. 11:11), which tells you right off the bat that Jesus Christ is no ‘son’ of Mary or any human being, because He is the “Son of God” (John's testimony is true) by the joining of the “Holy Spirit” (water witness) and the “Power of the Most High” (The Father = spirit witness = like this) in Mary’s womb (Luke 1:35) “found in appearance AS A MAN.” Phil. 2:8.

Scripture is describing Jesus Christ as the "Lord God" of Genesis 2 ("Eternal Father" = 'grandfather' to the sons of Adam) who 'formed' Adam (Gen. 2:7) with everybody here "IN" him. Jesus Christ is the "Lord God" of the New Testament following "My messenger/angel" to His Temple (Malachi 3:1). You cannot force the "Lord God" into Adam's lineage, when He is the Lord God who formed him. Jesus Christ silenced the Pharisees by asking a simple question, but let's see if anybody here can answer His question 'without' breaking Scripture:

"Now while the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them a question: "What do you think about the Christ, whose son is He?" They said to Him, "The son of David." He said to them, "Then how does David in the Spirit call Him 'Lord,' saying, 'The Lord said to my Lord, 'Sit at My right hand, until I put all of your enemies beneath your feet'? If David then calls Him 'Lord,' how is He his son? 'No one' was able to answer Him a word, nor did anyone dare from that day on to ask Him another question." Matthew 22:41-46.

The question again is, "If David calls Him (the Messiah) 'Lord,' how is He [Lord God = Gen. 2] his (David's) son?" Christ is quoting Psalm 110:1 where the first "Lord" is God and the second "Lord" is Jesus Christ who David is calling "Lord." We know this to be absolute fact, because Jesus Christ is right now at the "right hand of God" (Mark 16:19, Luke 22:69, Acts 5:31, 7:55, 56, Romans 8:34, Col. 3:1, Heb. 10:12, etc., etc.).

The simple truth that people overlook is that Jesus Christ is the "Man" (F+S+HS = under red arrow) from "Heaven" and John the Baptist (your father Adam) is the "man" (Jn 1:6) that is the "Man of the Earth" (pic = blue sphere = Jn 3:31 = my thread). Those of you trying to force Jesus Christ into becoming a 'mere man' (not) must find some way of making 'him' (a mere man) less than John the Baptist (Matt. 11:11). :0)

The challenge for every student of God's Living Word is not to simply come up with an interpretation for a single verse. The challenge is to find 'the true' interpretation that says everything God says from Genesis to Revelation 'without' creating a single contradiction. If you ever see a single contradiction in ANY of my Bible Commentary, then please "quote >>" that right away and help to remove the splinter from my eye using support from God's Living Word. :0)

In Christ Jesus,

Terral

 

[Agnapostate]

Here is a challenge to Ms. Kitty and Yurt and everyone here: This is your opportunity to ask ANY Bible question about ANYTHING from Genesis to Revelation right here on Yurt’s thread, then everyone can decide.

Better yet, why don't you show off those dazzling skills here?

 

[KittenKoder]

Terral forgets .... most non-christians in the US have read that book from cover to cover. Some of us forced to memorize it ... thus how we are able to point out when some ignore parts or change it to suit their own personal agendas.

 

[Againsheila]

Terral forgets .... most non-christians in the US have read that book from cover to cover. Some of us forced to memorize it ... thus how we are able to point out when some ignore parts or change it to suit their own personal agendas.

Really, you got any stats to support that? I'm a Christian, born and raised and the only part of the Bible I have memorized is the 23 Psalm. My son has seen a Bible, I even read passages to him when he was young but he's not a Christian and hasn't even touched a Bible in many years, let alone read it from cover to cover and memorized it.

How exactly, were you "forced" to memorize the Bible when it's not even welcome in public schools? Heck, here, not so many years ago, a junior high student was told he couldn't bring the Bible to school to read during their free reading time. We parents had to go to the school board to get them to retract that stupid rule.

I'll admit, I know quite a few non-Christians who have read at least parts of the Bible but I don't know a single one that has memorized any of it. I don't know any Christians who've memorized it either.

I'm betting "most" non-Christians today, under 30, have NEVER read any part of the Bible.

 

[HUGGY]

Hi Yurt with Euusebius and Kittenkoder mentioned:

Religious people really don't know much about religion

kittenkoder has this in her sig line....

explain....how is it then that "non religious" people know more about religion, that is what the comment means...let's assume it doesn't because kittencoder will tell us it doesn't....so then, if religious people don't, who then does?

Here is a challenge to Ms. Kitty and Yurt and everyone here: This is your opportunity to ask ANY Bible question about ANYTHING from Genesis to Revelation right here on Yurt’s thread, then everyone can decide. A brief summary of my OP “Religion” Topics was posted here for Eusebius and I am more than happy to answer any questions, or debate any Bible Topic at all, if anybody is interested.

BTW, Ms. Kitty put her foot in mouth in the Conspiracy Forum (starting here) if anybody is keeping score. This is the post right here (Post #45) that she cannot even begin to answer. :0)

GL,

Terral

I have an inquiry about your bible. When burning a bible at what temperature does that gold leaf melt? Does the paper burn at a uniform rate. If you burn your bible does god kill kittens?

 

[Agnapostate]

Really, you got any stats to support that? I'm a Christian, born and raised and the only part of the Bible I have memorized is the 23 Psalm. My son has seen a Bible, I even read passages to him when he was young but he's not a Christian and hasn't even touched a Bible in many years, let alone read it from cover to cover and memorized it.

How exactly, were you "forced" to memorize the Bible when it's not even welcome in public schools? Heck, here, not so many years ago, a junior high student was told he couldn't bring the Bible to school to read during their free reading time. We parents had to go to the school board to get them to retract that stupid rule.

I'll admit, I know quite a few non-Christians who have read at least parts of the Bible but I don't know a single one that has memorized any of it. I don't know any Christians who've memorized it either.

I'm betting "most" non-Christians today, under 30, have NEVER read any part of the Bible.

I don't know where these baseless assumptions that non-Christians necessarily attended public school came from. I hope it's not one of those assumptions about pagan atheism reigning in schools because of the presence of birth control and evolution. Since I would probably be considered a "non-Christian" by rightist Christians (though I don't share that belief myself), I was forced to learn the Bible first in catechism class as a Catholic, and then in both school and church as an evangelical/fundamentalist. (It was a heavily parochial school, so I was required to go to church.) Eventually, I learned more about the Bible through my own initiative (as opposed to mere verse memorization), which is why I retain so much technical knowledge of it despite no longer believing in its inerrancy or infallibility. Indeed, those who understand the nature of the Bible have no intellectually honest choice but to disbelieve in its alleged inerrancy/infallibility.

 

[Avatar4321]

Terral forgets .... most non-christians in the US have read that book from cover to cover. Some of us forced to memorize it ... thus how we are able to point out when some ignore parts or change it to suit their own personal agendas.

Im not convinced most Christians have read the Book, let alone non-christians.

 

[AssHatZombie]

Terral forgets .... most non-christians in the US have read that book from cover to cover. Some of us forced to memorize it ... thus how we are able to point out when some ignore parts or change it to suit their own personal agendas.

Im not convinced most Christians have read the Book, let alone non-christians.

But you're a dispensationalist christian, aka, confused noahide goyim.

 

[KittenKoder]

Terral forgets .... most non-christians in the US have read that book from cover to cover. Some of us forced to memorize it ... thus how we are able to point out when some ignore parts or change it to suit their own personal agendas.

Im not convinced most Christians have read the Book, let alone non-christians.

Ask those who have left the religion ... the most common reason is the book, the second most is the people. Shouldn't say most "non-christians", I should have said most "ex-christians".