Religious people really don't know much about religion

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by Yurt, Mar 22, 2009.

  1. Yurt
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    Yurt Gold Member

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    Religious people really don't know much about religion

    kittenkoder has this in her sig line....

    explain....how is it then that "non religious" people know more about religion, that is what the comment means...let's assume it doesn't because kittencoder will tell us it doesn't....so then, if religious people don't, who then does?
     
  2. Terral
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    Terral Terral Corp CEO

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    Hi Yurt with Euusebius and Kittenkoder mentioned:

    Here is a challenge to Ms. Kitty and Yurt and everyone here: This is your opportunity to ask ANY Bible question about ANYTHING from Genesis to Revelation right here on Yurt’s thread, then everyone can decide. A brief summary of my OP “Religion” Topics was posted here for Eusebius and I am more than happy to answer any questions, or debate any Bible Topic at all, if anybody is interested.

    BTW, Ms. Kitty put her foot in mouth in the Conspiracy Forum (starting here) if anybody is keeping score. This is the post right here (Post #45) that she cannot even begin to answer. :0)

    GL,

    Terral
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2009
  3. LiveUninhibited
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    LiveUninhibited Caffeine Junkie

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    Quite a few atheists I've encountered grew up with religious parents and/or grandparents who made them go to Sunday school, but when they critically analyzed their religion and others they turned to agnosticism/atheism.

    Most atheists I've ever talked to say they've studied various religions in their quest for understanding other people or driven by doubt combined with fear of death.

    While there are intelligent religious people out there, and even some who study their own religion and others, the majority of religious people do not seem interested in studying religions because they have faith that they have already found the right one and find any other extra information irrelevant or distracting.

    It's ironic when Christians say to read the Bible. I can't imagine how reading that book could bring somebody to faith, but then again the last time I read it is off of www.skepticsannotatedbible.com Might help if they skipped the Old Testament though.

    Anyway, I'd recommend the Religulous documentary that the quote is from.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2009
  4. LiveUninhibited
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    LiveUninhibited Caffeine Junkie

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    And Terral, your posts sometimes lead me to believe you're from another planet as your avatar suggests, but I'll name a few things i don't get.

    Why is the death of Jesus portrayed so differently in the earlier gospel (Matthew) versus the later gospels? For example, the last thing we hear from Jesus in Matthew, aside from a scream, is 'Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?' Meaning, 'My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?' (Matthew 27:46). That's just not something somebody who considers himself God would say. It's almost like a self-invalidation of the claim of divinity because you wouldn't say, "Myself, myself, what have I forsaken me?"

    Then, for whatever reason, the lamentation was not mentioned in later gospels, instead Jesus says totally different things:

    Then there's the whole Geneology problem:

    The geneologies are totally different, actually. Some apologists say one refers to Mary, but both verses explicitly state they are referring to Joseph. Not that Joseph should matter, because he is Jesus's adoptive father. Jesus being a descendent of David via Joseph is meaningless in that sense, and it would not have made sense to patriarchal Jewish society even if they had been referring to Mary's geneology.

    And the whole virgin birth idea would not have made sense given patriarchy, as one could not be a descendent of David while being born of a virgin. Of course this is because there actually is no prophecy in the OT about the messiah being born of a virgin.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2009
  5. dilloduck
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    dilloduck Diamond Member

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    Spirituality is not an intellectual excercise nor are it's rewards based on what you have read or "know".

    Thanks for playing tho !
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  6. Terral
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    Terral Terral Corp CEO

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    Hi Uninhibited:

    First of all, while I can answer any Bible question accurately, there is no guarantee whatsoever that you are capable or even ready to accept the right answer (like Christ taught = "IF you ware willing . . ."). The death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ is portrayed differently in the synoptic accounts, because the people involved are genuine and the story is being told from a variety of perspectives. Secondly, if you go backwards to Isaiah 53 and read the entire chapter, then you realize that the entire passage is written in the ‘past’ tense and for a very good reason. In fact, solving that mystery will also answer your question above. The reason that Jesus Christ choose ‘all’ of His words very carefully is because He is walking the same steps has His ‘son of God’ (Adam) that he suffered under Satan’s heel for 930 years, but compressed into just three years in this Earthly Ministry described in the Four Gospels. When Christ shouted “My God, My God, why have you forsaken Me?,” then the “Lord God” of Genesis 2 (Christ = Lord God of Heaven) is reciting the same exact words that He heard coming through the wings of the cherubim guarding the way to the ‘tree of life’ on the day that He drove His ‘son of God’ from the garden in Genesis 3:21-24 on the day that ‘he died spiritually.’ BTW, Jesus Christ never pretends to be “God,” because He is the “Son of God” (John 1:34) incarnate in this universe as “The Word” (John 1:1-3) made flesh (John 1:14 = pic). Jesus Christ is the “Heavenly Messiah” and John the Baptist is the “Earthly Messiah” (man of The Earth = blue sphere) who He formed back in the Garden. A full explanation is here.

    Both Genealogical Record listings pertain to “Joseph” without regard to Mary at all. Many people looking for Bible contradictions run to the Four Gospels and directly to this kind of thing, so welcome to the party. :0) The difference is that Matthew is tracing a ‘Royal’ line through David’s son Solomon, while Luke is using a natural line through David’s son Nathan. Remember that Matthew is describing a “King” and Luke is describing a ‘Servant/Man.’ Remember also that you have ‘two’ grandfathers where a particular lineage can travel along ‘two’ lines and meander back and forth depending upon the propensity of the person making the family tree and availability of the records themselves. Then remember that Jews oftentimes have two names like Cephas is Simon and Paul is Saul and so forth. Therefore, civil records in Tarsus (where Paul was born) might list his Gentile name rather than his Jewish name that would appear if he was born in Jerusalem or Bethlehem.

    Jesus Christ taught that the greatest born of woman is none other than John the Baptist. Matthew 11:11a. Jesus Christ is no literal ‘man’ at all, but was “found in appearance AS A MAN.” Philippians 2:8. Jesus Christ is “The Word” (F+S+HS) made flesh, while John the Baptist (Adam, Abraham, Joshua, David, Elijah) represents ‘this universe’ (heavens, heaven and earth) in one ‘man sent from God’ (John 1:6) so that all would believe through him (John 1: 7). And yes, they thought that John had a demon too (Luke 7:33). :0)

    GL,

    Terral
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2009
  7. ABikerSailor
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    ABikerSailor Platinum Member

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    Of course religious people (mainly the fanatics and zealots) don't know anything about their religion. It's much easier to just say "God did it" than to actually think for yourself and look for how all these things fit together.

    By the way, as far as the Old Testament goes? It makes a LOT more sense when it is interpreted from the Hebrew. A show that I really like to watch is "Hidden in the Hebrew" on God's Learning Channel (local channel 20), on Sundays at 6:30 pm. The teacher is a man named Uri Harrel who is a Torah scholar that takes the original text and explains the meanings of each Bible verse in the OT.

    Interestingly enough, until I watched that show (as well as some others on the 'net, Universal Torah Network is a phenomenal resource), I always thought that the commandment against killing was "thou shalt not kill", but, the REAL translation is "thou shalt not murder".

    Hey......the OT is a Jewish book, and if you really want to understand it, you should probably translate it from the original, rather than depend on the Latin and Greek translations (which is the King James version).

    Recently, it has been discovered (saw it on Naked Archaeologist), that the miracle of Jesus healing the lepers may have been a mistranslation also. The disease that was referred to was actually the heartbreak of psoriasis, rather than Hansen's Disease, but, the rules concerning both were the same, you had to leave the village. Personally? I think that Yeshua saw people being kicked out to leper colonies who only had psoriasis, and He figured out how to cure them.

    By the way........they've also recently discovered the actual Well of Salome (you know, the one that Yeshua healed them at), which is one of the first genuine connections between archeology and the Bible.

    On that show they also showed Jewish medical instruments from 2,000 years ago. They would look right at home in a modern operating room. Saw that on the show also.
     
  8. KittenKoder
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    KittenKoder Senior Member

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    Well ... the comment to me is more of pointing out the conundrum of those who use their religious beliefs to justify their hatred, anger, or evil acts. Such as those who will slaughter innocent people because their books told them to. In reality it's not a fact, there are many religious and non-religious people who do know a lot about religion, those who chose their religion after experiencing others have to, as well as those who chose no religion after experiencing many religious beliefs. The problem are those born into a religion and never expanding beyond what they are told is truth without ever even questioning it, like Terral, they will justify their stagnation by even twisting their own beliefs to suite whatever it is they want to make others believe.

    Here's a clue to look for: people using the source as proof of that source have never even considered other possibilities, and therefore know nothing of even their own religion.
     
  9. ABikerSailor
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    ABikerSailor Platinum Member

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    Here's a perfect example of religious people not knowing their religion.........

    Most Christians like to cite Leviticus as prohibition against homosexuality, but, they follow Christianity. Leviticus was a book of rules for Jewish Priests, so, what is a Christian doing using it? Have you ever seen a Baptist minister use Catholic rites in their sermon? No. Their congregation would tear them apart.

    Same deal.
     
  10. Againsheila
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    Againsheila Gold Member

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    Um, no.

    Most Christians believe the New Testament is built on the old testament and that unless something in the new testament is counter to what's in the old testament, then the old testament stands.

    BTW, there are some Jews who believe that Jesus was the Messiah, they are called "Jews for Jesus". They believe in both the old and the New Testaments.

    Remember, Jesus was a Jew.
     

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