Reconciliation On Health Care (or anything else), How Can You Defend It?

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

since when did passing a bill by a majority vote become unamerican?

I never said it was unamerican. I called it a bastardization of our political system. In our system you need 3/5 of a vote to pass a law, not 51/100.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Bush should have partially privatized Social Security and reformed Medicare, Freddie and Fannie using reconciliation.

And when we win it all back in 2012 that's exactly what we're going to do, and you can kiss the Department of "Education" goodbye!

What if Bush HAD privatized Social Security, LiarFrank? With the Wall Street collapse and subsequent Stock Market debacle suffered under Bush in the last year of his Presidency, how well would THAT idea have panned out?

Quit blubbering, you fool!

When we win it back in 2012, we're going to partially privatize Social Security and we're all buying stock in Berkshire Hathaway

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

I'm wondering WHY reconciliation is coming under the microscope now? Where was all of this attention when the GOP rammed through $1TRILLION in tax cuts for the wealthy using this tactic? Do none of you care how hypocritical you look right now?

You need to understand the person who created the thread before making statements such as this. In fact maybe read the thread title where it says (or anything else).

I dont approve of the republicans behavior either...its how we got the tax cuts that were not paid for with spending cuts. It never works out when the government breaks the rule of a 3/5 majority to create a new law.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

This is the problem.

The medical world is ran by business people; the business people are, for the most part, Republicans. They don't want changes to a system that brings in billions of dollars for them.

Now that I'd written this in six-grade languague, you'll understand why the GOP will never cooperate in enacting this bill.

This is your justification? C'mon i'm out of the 6th grade why dont you use some graduate level reasoning instead of this hollow claim.

again: since when does majority rule need some additional "justification"?

Thats not our system. Our system is set up so that legislators need a 3/5's majority to create new laws. By making it 1/2 instead it is a bastardization of our legislative process.

3/5 of 100 is 60, not 51.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Bush should have told Barney Frank to go fuck himself, that he wasn't going to let the Democrats run the US housing and mortgage markets into the dirt. Bush should have used reconciliation to ram through the needed reforms of Freddie and Fannie.

Again, Dems, thanks! This is going to come in handy later, I just know it

"These two entities—Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac—are not facing any kind of financial crisis" -- Barney Frank (D)

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Bush should have partially privatized Social Security and reformed Medicare, Freddie and Fannie using reconciliation.

And when we win it all back in 2012 that's exactly what we're going to do, and you can kiss the Department of "Education" goodbye!

The repubs better not pull this same crap again if they get 51 senate seats. Like McCain said to obama......

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsz5drK49M4]YouTube - Obama defends reconciliation: A majority vote makes sense[/ame]

 

[maineman]

since when did passing a bill by a majority vote become unamerican?

I never said it was unamerican. I called it a bastardization of our political system. In our system you need 3/5 of a vote to pass a law, not 51/100.

show me a link to anything in our constitution where it says that you need 3/5 of a vote to pass a law.

I think you missed civics class pilgrim.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

The "nuclear" Option, Reconciliation, a simple majority vote....whatever you want to call it how can people justify bastardizing our political system like this. Health Care reform is HUGE, its 1/6th of our economy! Its too big for these shenanigans.

I'll start this with my outrage at the tactic and I want people who support it to go ahead and defend it. I want a debate on this.

This is not a debate on a need for healthcare or the actual bill itself, it is a debate on using Reconciliation.


A short recommended read
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconciliation_(United_States_Congress)

Yesterday Republican Senator John Barrasso said that a bill this important should get 70 or 80 votes. Why then isn't he right?

1. We elect Senators by a simple majority. What's wrong with that?
2. The House passes bills by a simple majority. What's wrong with that?


btw, the Senate already passed healthcare with 60 votes. Reconciliation is not going to change the entire bill, only a small part of it. Therefore the argument that 1/6 of our economy is going to be drastically impacted by this 'evil' reconciliation is sheer nonsense.

1) nothing
2) nothing

That being said the Senate passes bills with a 3/5's majority and there is nothing wrong with this either. Thats how it our system works. Reconciliation/nuke options/simple majority is not how the senate works.

Yes an different verision of this bill got 60 votes. However, according to obama's speeches over the last few days, this bill has been signifigantly changed from the last version. That makes it a different bill and therefore it needs to be re-voted on.

If it didn't why would it even be brought in front of the senate again? It should just go straight to the president under this logic.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Bush should have partially privatized Social Security and reformed Medicare, Freddie and Fannie using reconciliation.

And when we win it all back in 2012 that's exactly what we're going to do, and you can kiss the Department of "Education" goodbye!

The repubs better not pull this same crap again if they get 51 senate seats. Like McCain said to obama......

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsz5drK49M4]YouTube - Obama defends reconciliation: A majority vote makes sense[/ame]

Obama thinks the American people are too stupid to know what's happening.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

since when did passing a bill by a majority vote become unamerican?

I never said it was unamerican. I called it a bastardization of our political system. In our system you need 3/5 of a vote to pass a law, not 51/100.

show me a link to anything in our constitution where it says that you need 3/5 of a vote to pass a law.

I think you missed civics class pilgrim.

Thanks again, this is going to come in handy in 2012.

 

[maineman]

I never said it was unamerican. I called it a bastardization of our political system. In our system you need 3/5 of a vote to pass a law, not 51/100.

show me a link to anything in our constitution where it says that you need 3/5 of a vote to pass a law.

I think you missed civics class pilgrim.

Thanks again, this is going to come in handy in 2012.

so you missed civics class too, eh?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Jan 20, 2012

List of things we will Reconcile

1. English Official Language of the USA
2. National Voter ID
3. Partial privatization of Social Security
4. Eliminate Dept of Education and Energy
5. Repeal Minimum Wage
6. Immigration Reform/Annex Mexico

This is a lot of fun! Sweet!

 

[CrusaderFrank]

show me a link to anything in our constitution where it says that you need 3/5 of a vote to pass a law.

I think you missed civics class pilgrim.

Thanks again, this is going to come in handy in 2012.

so you missed civics class too, eh?

Yeah that has to be it. Once you open this door, there'll be no closing it

 

[maineman]

Jan 20, 2012

List of things we will Reconcile

1. English Official Language of the USA
2. National Voter ID
3. Partial privatization of Social Security
4. Eliminate Dept of Education and Energy
5. Repeal Minimum Wage
6. Immigration Reform/Annex Mexico

This is a lot of fun! Sweet!

wanna bet? I'll bet you $20K that the USA will not do a single one of those things in 2012.

 

[NYcarbineer]

We don't need a supermajority to pass the budget, and that affects 100% of our economy. Which would be six times bigger than anything affecting 1/6 of our economy (if this healthcare even did, which it doesn't).

Lay that argument to rest.

 

[maineman]

Thanks again, this is going to come in handy in 2012.

so you missed civics class too, eh?

Yeah that has to be it. Once you open this door, there'll be no closing it

wow... you mean that the senate will operate the way the rest of the country does? majority rules? fine with me.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Jan 20, 2012

List of things we will Reconcile

1. English Official Language of the USA
2. National Voter ID
3. Partial privatization of Social Security
4. Eliminate Dept of Education and Energy
5. Repeal Minimum Wage
6. Immigration Reform/Annex Mexico

This is a lot of fun! Sweet!

wanna bet? I'll bet you $20K that the USA will not do a single one of those things in 2012.

When the Republicans win Congress (probably 100 seat pick up in 2010) and the Presidency in 2012, you will have to reconcile yourself to this.

 

[Claudette]

Correct me if I'm wrong but the House passed the bill the first time correct? The Senate then passed a bill.?? Is that correct??

Don't they have to marry the two bills before they can pass the final bill?? I thought that was the problem. They were having trouble putting the House and Senate bills together. Is that not the way its supposed to go?? Mayby I got my civics class wrong. It was quite a long while ago.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

since when did passing a bill by a majority vote become unamerican?

I never said it was unamerican. I called it a bastardization of our political system. In our system you need 3/5 of a vote to pass a law, not 51/100.

show me a link to anything in our constitution where it says that you need 3/5 of a vote to pass a law.

I think you missed civics class pilgrim.

In order to end debate, vote on and pass the bill, and invoke cloture they need a 3/5ths vote. Its how it works. read up on the senate rules.

They can't just "shut down debate" by invoking reconciliation/nuke option/simple majority. Its how the system works

Here is a good read for you Project Vote Smart - GOVERNMENT 101: How a Bill Becomes Law

 

[CrusaderFrank]

show me a link to anything in our constitution where it says that you need 3/5 of a vote to pass a law.

I think you missed civics class pilgrim.

Thanks again, this is going to come in handy in 2012.

so you missed civics class too, eh?

Don't cry like a little girl when we use reconciliation to sell off ObamaMotors, Freddie and Fannie and privatize Social Security