Reasons for Dissension between France and USA

Discussion in 'Europe' started by newone, May 20, 2004.

  1. newone
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    I’d like to talk about France, since it is a rubric in your newsgroup and it’s a country I know pretty well. Also, I think it’s very important to shed some light for those readers who don’t know Europe and France well, since apparently here in this newsgroup no one thinks about what I’m going to say, so as to analyze the situation well, WITHOUT HATRED toward the French, and understand why there have been such changes in foreign policy in a country that was a strong friend of the United States. I mean to talk about the existence of the far right in France, the country in Europe where it is by far the strongest. The far right creates insecurity, mistrust and worries among people in France. They threaten, insult and denigrate other politicians, including the president of the republic, who are all so used to it by now that they no longer even respond (wrongly). There is spitefulness and disgraceful drawings for example in the media they own, against those who oppose the opinions of the French “Danube of Thought”, a demagogue who encourages lowly instincts. Victims know that it’s useless to start long and costly lawsuits, as the far right practically never loses a case, or with only small sentences, and goes on to repeat the offence anyway. Judges don’t dare to or don’t want to punish them, perhaps they actually support them, we might wonder, even when they pretend to be left-wing. Only ‘they’ confiscate the voicing of opinions when they can and want to have the right to speak. In those cases, it’s only hatred that can be expressed in the media, that no one seems to (dare to) silence. Such is the deleterious state of justice and the rest.
    They cry WOLF, about insecurity, but they’re the wolf. They say they’re opposed to foreign, abusive invasion. But by developing the worship of their leader, they arouse other callings from fellow countrymen, rival, jealous big shots who want to be the leaders in this ‘superman’ political ideology, thereby causing divisions in national cohesion. They say they fight ‘Islamic terrorism’, but by their racist aggressions against foreign-born communities, including Muslims (cf. recent attacks against small mosques), they give great publicity to Muslim terrorist ideology political leaders, with opportunities for media coverage and roles as victims. People then tend to listen to and side with the latter, and for fear of reprisals or out of compassion for the victims of such attacks, show sympathy and comfort for this Islam. The far right is the BEST ALLY of ISLAMISM, by fostering its propaganda. It’s all grist to each other’s mills. They need each other to make headway.
    Using, twisting and corrupting symbols, they succeeded in associating their political and racist objectives, in people’s minds, with the symbol of a cross inside a circle, which represented the Aura around Jesus’ cross. So this has now become the symbol of total hatred between peoples, which they leave as their signature after their attacks. You understand this is a substitute for Nazi ideology, which was until now only found in Hitler’s swastika, and now has this ‘softer-line’, less shocking variation. In complete opposition to the Christian religion. Those stupid criminal actions don’t bring about any solution of course, and they have but one consequence, that of poisoning our daily lives.
    France is the only country in the world, or in Europe at least, where over the last thirty years or so such a strong Nazi political party has developed and thrived, to the point of making it to the second round of the last presidential election, which required the mass mobilization of all other parties against it in the final vote let’s not forget. Its leaders play a different tune depending on whether they feel strong enough to express their racist wishes and ulterior motives, and say again and again that they’re against democracy in their private media, without being confronted with having to come out and say this to voters. This is the work mostly of one HIGHLY INTELLIGENT MAN - which his opponents refuse to admit, and would feel humiliated to acknowledge as such, which goes to show how stupid they are -, undoubtedly for me alas one of the most experienced and smartest among the French political class, which sometimes look like a herd of donkeys next to him. He now has a large support network both in France and abroad. To counter him, the other French politicians have chosen to respond, when he wants, where he wants, and every time they “bring him soup in a chamber pot”. It’s sad and painful to see democrats, whom he and his people of the far right despise, on their knees in front of this braggart Nazi they obey, whose career was one of a political agitator and troublemaker full of hatred for others, such as General de Gaulle back when he was alive.
    He is full of self-importance now, for he has succeeding in becoming the central reference of Interior political issues. However, he has a flaw. Like all proud people, he wishes to be admired like a peacock all over the Earth, like a providential superman, and he arouses callings as I mentioned above, among others who envy him and wish to take his place. He in fact has an abominable little twin brother. They were the BEST FRIENDS of Saddam in France. They’ve managed to make into a freedom of opinion that is as honorable as another the fact of showing racist hatred, voluntarily quite visibly, toward those who are not of French origin first and then toward others, who most often shy away from responding. As if not being French or being of immigrant origin, i.e. not considered by them as French, were a crime to be denounced. This accusation that all those donkeys fear is enough to silence opponents, even those of French stock.
    Naturally only the founder is allowed to say who is French and who isn’t. And are only French in his view those who’ve come out of his pants, that is no one besides himself maybe. This political party and movement is the black star of French domestic politics. Let me add that politics is like Astronomy regarding certain things, with similar laws. When a star moves close to another, even one much larger than itself, it manages to change and redirect the trajectory of the bigger one, like it or not, away from its initial desired path. And those changing the course of French democracy in recent decades are the French electors, who used to vote for other extremist but less harmful parties and now vote for this one, which has managed to even win over voters who consider themselves as Christians… Through fear or persuasion after all this time, they’ve succeeded in carrying out a ‘takeover’ (financial style) on part of France’s clergy, to secure the faithful’s ideological and electoral support for the ‘great man’.
    After explaining all this, this newsgroup’s readers may understand better the changes in French foreign policy and the move away from the American traditional Atlantic allies, which is not explained to the public by supposed specialist, intelligent and well-informed journalists. The culprit IS NOT America, (and your President).

    This is a humiliating fact to admit and face for the French and a shameful reality for the French democratic political class, which feels powerless and often embarrassingly dominated in debates, among other reasons why, because of anti-democratic rules and practices such as personal attacks and denigrations, which they allowed from the start.

    In France, like in all other countries as a rule, the far right is A MAFIA. The neighboring country of Spain has experienced it and keeps deep traces and marks, with never-ending scars and spirit of revenge, still undemocratic habits and laws, INJUSTICES that keep reviving terrorism. Having said that, let’s not exaggerate. After all the extremist votes have been cast, their progress is rather halted now, and we can say that (for now) their influence has decreased and they’re losing ground. But sooner or later we’ll need to find a solution to this scandal that has gone on too long we think. In particular France I hope will get rid of this cancer of society, even using a scalpel if necessary. Those despicable people have brought only hatred and slander as methods in combat and debates. The only positive point is that at least the people who didn’t experience, fortunately, the dark times of Nazi occupation of France during World War II can get an idea of what it was like then.


    Some weeks ago, the ‘great man’ protested with emotion against the expulsion of a Islamiq terrorist towards Algery. There would be for him an attack with freedom of thought of this last. (Including in the form of blows that one gives to women)


    The same text (in german)
    http://www.fes-online-akademie.de/forum/read.php?f=1&i=33&t=33
    ' ' ' (in french)
    http://french.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=192&highlight=
     
  2. rtwngAvngr
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    rtwngAvngr Guest

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    These are the buchananite conservatives of france. Where are the french neocon globalist jew supporters? are there any? Who is this big guy of the new french fascism?
     
  3. Comrade
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    Comrade Senior Member

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    Also in speaking of the politics of France, it's absolutely vital to include the role that the Muslim population currently plays in that country.

    What fraction of Frenchmen emulate the politics of the far right, similar to Nazi Germany? To me even 1 in 1000 seems to be a overstatement. You might have a few white skinheads in the cities but in mainstream politics absolutely no one of Western culture is advocating racial or religious inequality. No Jews or Muslims are being stripped of their rights.

    Not all, but MOST of the Jew hatred in France is coming from the Muslims in France. Of every ten Frenchmen, one is an Islamist which has refused to assimiliate Western cultural values of equality and freedom of religion.

    THAT'S the problem with France today. And the White culture of France is also unable to integrate the Islamic element without provoking a backlash among their immigrant population.

    True, there is a rightist element, almost exclusively among the White population, which has attempted to halt immigration from the Middle East and deal with the domestic problem of Islamic Fundamentalism. But if you talk of racial hatred on a Nazi scale, the true legacy of Jew hatred now carried by the torch of Islam and it's followers.
     
  4. freeandfun1
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    I skimmed through the post (toooooo long) but from what I did see, your far right sounds like our far left.....
     
  5. nycflasher
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    nycflasher Active Member

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    Um, the far left and far right are right next to eachother on the political spectrum aren't they?

    Maybe that's why...
     
  6. rtwngAvngr
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    I consider the buchananite protectionists on this board to be just as destructive and economically stupid as liberals, if that's what you mean.
     
  7. Comrade
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    Comrade Senior Member

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    Actually you make a good point.

    Politics today, especially regarding the anti-American movement, is based upon a union of extremist left and right elements.

    Every anti-war demonstration in the West today, since 9-11, has included elements of both extremes:

    RIGHT:

    Islamic Fundamentalists
    Anti-Semetic groups (ie.Neo-Nazi’s)
    The Catholic Leadership
    Conservative Christian Coalitions

    Left:
    Communists
    Socialists
    Union Groups (ie. Teacher’s Union)
    Gay Rights Organizations
    College Professors
    Pot smoking hippies and a various other assortment of activists for the sake of activism

    Anyway, my point is, it’s too simple just imagining:

    Left ------ Center ------ Right


    Imagine a two dimensional chart instead



    …………………………………………….Leadership………..……………………….
    ……………Revolutionary………………Flexible…………………………..Dogmatic

    Individual
    Liberty

    Each to his own
    +
    +
    +
    +
    +
    +
    Moderated
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    Forced Conformity



    I'm curious where you would locate certain governments among this chart.

    I put Islamic Fundamentalists and the Communist Party at the bottom right of this chart, each sharing an inflexible, dogmatic politic... which leads me to place the U.S. government towards, but not all the way, to the upper left.

    The extreme left and extreme right have seemed to come full circle to the bottom in a temporary comprimise, based upon the flexibility of the leadership for each.
     
  8. 5stringJeff
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    5stringJeff Senior Member

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    Comrade, which conservative Christian organizations have you seen protesting the war? The only Christian organizations I have seen protesting the war are the liberal ones, but if there are some conservative ones out there, I'd be interested to know about them.
     
  9. freeandfun1
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    freeandfun1 VIP Member

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    I know you aren't saying all pot smokers are hippies.... but.....

    :rolleyes: :D
     
  10. Comrade
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    At some point the Christian right tips down into the bottom of the chart and falls into lockstep with Islamists and the left over the Jewish issue, which seems to take precedence over even the war on terror.


    Hostility to the moderate Right of Bush comes from the Christian extreme right, one leader comes to mind, Pat Buchanan.

    He published this scathing attack on Bush middle East policy as of late. Which just happens to be indistinguishable from a leftish or Islamist point of view...

    http://www.amconmag.com/03_24_03/cover.html


    March 24, 2003 issue
    Copyright © 2003 The American Conservative



    Whose War?

    A neoconservative clique seeks to ensnare our country in a series of wars that are not in America’s interest.

    by Patrick J. Buchanan


    The War Party may have gotten its war. But it has also gotten something it did not bargain for. Its membership lists and associations have been exposed and its motives challenged. In a rare moment in U.S. journalism, Tim Russert put this question directly to Richard Perle: “Can you assure American viewers ... that we’re in this situation against Saddam Hussein and his removal for American security interests? And what would be the link in terms of Israel?”



    I haven't been a regular reader of the Christian Science Monitor, but some of the headlines from today's home page certainly appear biased to the anti-war spectrum.

    http://www.csmonitor.com/commentary/monitorView.html


    THE MONITOR'S VIEW

    A Hornet's Nest in Gaza

    Israel's offensive only hurts its effort to remove Jewish settlements.


    THE MONITOR'S VIEW

    Nurturing Iraq's Media

    The US must promote a free and independent fourth estate.


    OPINION

    Iraq sarin shell is not part of a secret cache

    It's the dud heard 'round the world - and US should stop irresponsible speculation.



    DANIEL SCHORR

    Bush's path to reelection runs through Iraq

    Logistical control of Iraq power transfer is one thing; emotion over a beheading is another.



    And I've certainly read C.S.M. articles in the past with the same anti-Semetic, anti-war tone of Buchanan.

    I believe many these fellows also belong in the bottom of the chart!
     

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