Question (mostly) for women

[RodISHI]

I hear what you're all saying, but the fact remains that if you belong to a religion, you're following a male dominated sect. Just as a few examples, the pope discriminates against women. Only Jewish men can grant a divorce, the women can't force one. We all know how well muslim women are treated, and even Avatar's "devine calling", which are man-mandated stereotypes from 2000 years ago. And your prayer books are all full of stories to put women in their place, like the one about the woman was made out a man's rib. That's funny. Geez, Jesus didn't even have an official female disciple, only 12 guys.
So really I guess you probably all either don't mind men dominating you, or you pretend not to see it, because it's all there in black and white in your religious books that you all quote so often.

I suppose if you do not understand no one can open your eyes to see. Faith is not religion.

My faith is what makes me a Christian. It is not a religious church that gives me that faith. It comes from God.

My loving husband does not talk down to me. He treats me as an equal. He is also a believer. He supported me in things that many both women and men said could not be done. Should I give credence to what someone else tells me I know is not truth? I think not.

Do many churches and religions have problems? Sure but their problems are not my problems. It does not affect my personal faith.

If you want to speak about the world that is a seperate issue. Some men still would like to keep women in what they percieve as a woman's place.

The Bible states in the very beginning God created male and female in His image. That means that the spirit of God is both male and female. It was the flesh/human in the garden of Eden that has gotten mixed up and does not always listen. Even that was pre-ordained to serve God's purpose. The garden belongs to God. Therefore God put whom He desired in the garden to till the ground.

 

[TofuDog]

Rod, "The Bible states in the very beginning God created male and female in His image. That means that the spirit of God is both male and female." That would make Him bi-sexual.

If you're a Christian, then you belong to a religion that discriminates against women. You can pretend that you're not actually being discriminated against, but the fact remains that if you are a Jesus and bible follower, then you're a second class citizen in your religion's eyes. I was just curious to understand why women would go along with that. So the answer is pretty much that you willfully choose to ignore certain aspects of your religion so as not to rock the boat.

 

[Said1]

You're getting repetitive.

 

[del]

You're getting repetitive.

getting?

 

[Said1]

You're getting repetitive.

getting?

It's early, Del. GET OFF MY BACK, MAAAAN!

 

[DamnYankee]

I've never felt like a second class citizen in my faith.

cool...

on the other hand, you didn't have to sit behind a wall or curtain, separated from the men, while in your place of worship.

I have a lot of issues with orthodoxy and fundamentalism.

Good point, although I'm not certain that the questions were meant to hone in on the religious practice per se. For instance, in the Muslim culture, it's still not unusual for women to be prohibited from driving, and they are still expected to walk behind the man. That is "relegating them to second class status", and it's not within the realm of the place of worship. Still, it's the religious upbringing that teaches them that this is acceptable -- no, that it's right.

 

[Newby]

I hear what you're all saying, but the fact remains that if you belong to a religion, you're following a male dominated sect. Just as a few examples, the pope discriminates against women. Only Jewish men can grant a divorce, the women can't force one. We all know how well muslim women are treated, and even Avatar's "devine calling", which are man-mandated stereotypes from 2000 years ago. And your prayer books are all full of stories to put women in their place, like the one about the woman was made out a man's rib. That's funny. Geez, Jesus didn't even have an official female disciple, only 12 guys.
So really I guess you probably all either don't mind men dominating you, or you pretend not to see it, because it's all there in black and white in your religious books that you all quote so often.

I suppose if you do not understand no one can open your eyes to see. Faith is not religion.

My faith is what makes me a Christian. It is not a religious church that gives me that faith. It comes from God.

My loving husband does not talk down to me. He treats me as an equal. He is also a believer. He supported me in things that many both women and men said could not be done. Should I give credence to what someone else tells me I know is not truth? I think not.

Do many churches and religions have problems? Sure but their problems are not my problems. It does not affect my personal faith.

If you want to speak about the world that is a seperate issue. Some men still would like to keep women in what they percieve as a woman's place.

The Bible states in the very beginning God created male and female in His image. That means that the spirit of God is both male and female. It was the flesh/human in the garden of Eden that has gotten mixed up and does not always listen. Even that was pre-ordained to serve God's purpose. The garden belongs to God. Therefore God put whom He desired in the garden to till the ground.

Great post.

 

[Newby]

Rod, "The Bible states in the very beginning God created male and female in His image. That means that the spirit of God is both male and female." That would make Him bi-sexual.

If you're a Christian, then you belong to a religion that discriminates against women. You can pretend that you're not actually being discriminated against, but the fact remains that if you are a Jesus and bible follower, then you're a second class citizen in your religion's eyes. I was just curious to understand why women would go along with that. So the answer is pretty much that you willfully choose to ignore certain aspects of your religion so as not to rock the boat.

Did Jesus treat women as second class citizens?

 

[Newby]

I've never felt like a second class citizen in my faith.

cool...

on the other hand, you didn't have to sit behind a wall or curtain, separated from the men, while in your place of worship.

I have a lot of issues with orthodoxy and fundamentalism.

Good point, although I'm not certain that the questions were meant to hone in on the religious practice per se. For instance, in the Muslim culture, it's still not unusual for women to be prohibited from driving, and they are still expected to walk behind the man. That is "relegating them to second class status", and it's not within the realm of the place of worship. Still, it's the religious upbringing that teaches them that this is acceptable -- no, that it's right.

And I believe that's mostly because Islam is miscategorized as only being a 'religion', when in fact it is much more than that.

 

[TofuDog]

"Did Jesus treat women as second class citizens?" If he was a practising Jew, sure. If the bible is an accurate account of his life, sure. He not only just had guys in his entourage, was good looking and stylish (if you know what I'm saying), but he also founded a religion and book that heavily discriminate against women.

 

[DamnYankee]

cool...

on the other hand, you didn't have to sit behind a wall or curtain, separated from the men, while in your place of worship.

I have a lot of issues with orthodoxy and fundamentalism.

Good point, although I'm not certain that the questions were meant to hone in on the religious practice per se. For instance, in the Muslim culture, it's still not unusual for women to be prohibited from driving, and they are still expected to walk behind the man. That is "relegating them to second class status", and it's not within the realm of the place of worship. Still, it's the religious upbringing that teaches them that this is acceptable -- no, that it's right.

And I believe that's mostly because Islam is miscategorized as only being a 'religion', when in fact it is much more than that.

Perhaps, but tell me.... How many Muslims do you know who do not practice Islam?

 

[Newby]

Good point, although I'm not certain that the questions were meant to hone in on the religious practice per se. For instance, in the Muslim culture, it's still not unusual for women to be prohibited from driving, and they are still expected to walk behind the man. That is "relegating them to second class status", and it's not within the realm of the place of worship. Still, it's the religious upbringing that teaches them that this is acceptable -- no, that it's right.

And I believe that's mostly because Islam is miscategorized as only being a 'religion', when in fact it is much more than that.

Perhaps, but tell me.... How many Muslims do you know who do not practice Islam?

My point was that it's a social system, a political system, a religious system, etc... It's intended to be your entire life no matter where you go or what you are doing. It dictates what is appropriate to wear, what is appropriate to eat, how it is appropriate to govern, how people interact with eachother. It goes far beyond just being a religion.

 

[DamnYankee]

And I believe that's mostly because Islam is miscategorized as only being a 'religion', when in fact it is much more than that.

Perhaps, but tell me.... How many Muslims do you know who do not practice Islam?

My point was that it's a social system, a political system, a religious system, etc... It's intended to be your entire life no matter where you go or what you are doing. It dictates what is appropriate to wear, what is appropriate to eat, how it is appropriate to govern, how people interact with eachother. It goes far beyond just being a religion.

Which is exactly the reason my initial comment was:
although I'm not certain that the questions were meant to hone in on the religious practice per se. For instance, in the Muslim culture, it's still not unusual....

It is their religion, however, that is the basis/foundation for their Muslim culture. It's ingrained in them from birth -- not just the religious practice, as I said, but the entirety of their culture.

 

[Newby]

Right, the Muslim culture is based on the religion. It pervades everything in the culture.

 

[RodISHI]

Rod, "The Bible states in the very beginning God created male and female in His image. That means that the spirit of God is both male and female." That would make Him bi-sexual.

No.

Fact is it takes male and female to procreate. Him is used meaning He is the head of the household even in heaven. He and she are still one. You would be more correct to say tranvestite as you are thinking along the lines of the carnal [That is with a mind of the flesh].

If you're a Christian, then you belong to a religion that discriminates against women. You can pretend that you're not actually being discriminated against, but the fact remains that if you are a Jesus and bible follower, then you're a second class citizen in your religion's eyes. I was just curious to understand why women would go along with that. So the answer is pretty much that you willfully choose to ignore certain aspects of your religion so as not to rock the boat.

Again you are describing a carnal precept or doctrine of the world. Christian is used to describe a person or a group that believes on Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. They believe that He is the son of God that was crucified on the cross and He was raised from the dead.

It does not mean I believe in the conjured up precepts that the men/women of the world placed in their religious doctrines. Nor is it that I simply "willfully choose to ignore aspects" of men's doctrines. Those doctrines of men that treat a women as a lesser being are not mine or my Lord's. If I tell you something in truth and you fail to hear it is that my fault or yours? Would you be so blind and deaf as to tell me that you had not been given adequate warning and it is my fault? You can obviously read and write so you have no excuse but your own if you do not seek the truth and read the written word. If I were to tell you that judgment is nigh would you hear it? Or would you say I don't believe you? To each we are given choices. If one is to lazy to take the time to seek the truth then it is not on me. Nor can you put it on me.

I rock the boat in more ways than you could ever concieve of. You do not no me well enough to make those blind assumptions. I do not take my instructions of the world. I take them from One you may not be familar with.

You can say in truth that many churches are teaching in error. And you would be correct. You could say a lot of things about those who live by flesh and not the spirit and you would be correct. Yet to accuse someone blindly without knowledge of who they are or where they come from you are in error.

I have told you part of the mystery yet can you cannot hear it. You seek only to accuse based on your own concepts.

 

[RodISHI]

I've never felt like a second class citizen in my faith.

cool...

on the other hand, you didn't have to sit behind a wall or curtain, separated from the men, while in your place of worship.

I have a lot of issues with orthodoxy and fundamentalism.

Good point, although I'm not certain that the questions were meant to hone in on the religious practice per se. For instance, in the Muslim culture, it's still not unusual for women to be prohibited from driving, and they are still expected to walk behind the man. That is "relegating them to second class status", and it's not within the realm of the place of worship. Still, it's the religious upbringing that teaches them that this is acceptable -- no, that it's right.

It is not always religion that determines how women are treated.

Rod's mom did not get her drivers license until she was 63 years old. She raised 6 children. Can you imagine. She wanted one of the jobs I had so I gave it to her. Rod's dad would drive her back and forth to work. They did not live very far from the jobsite. It was very inconvenient for her and Ben drank. So she would have to wait in between those times he could drive to do her work. I bought her a pickup. I even let her and Ben choose the options. Ben insisted on a stick shift. Rod's mom did not say one way or the other and seemed to be in agreement with Ben. She knew how to drive but still no license. I drove up to where the lived and asked her why she had not gotten her license or tried to drive the pickup I bought for her. She told me she did not know how to drive a stick shift. I felt bad, heck I did not know. A few weeks later we drove up to see them and I took her out in her pickup for driving lessons. It was hilarious. She did really good and a few hours later she could drive a stick and she was good at it. We toodled around town with her driving, we had icecream and I had her drive all the places I could think of to get her used to driving her pickup. It was late when we got back to her house. We walked through the door and Rod's dad said to her in a very gruff voice, "Where the hell have you been? Dinner's been done for hours!" She snapped back at him, "I don't want to here your shit Ben. I remember I sent you out for chocolate pudding one time and I did not see you for three fucking days!" Everyones jaw dropped. No one had ever heard her talk like that. There was silence through dinner and then we headed home. Rod and I laughed all the way home.

We all have choices.

 

[sealybobo]

I've always been curious as to why women would follow a religion that relegates them to second class status. Christians, Jews, Muslims... all treat their women as inferior. So why do you follow such derogatory nonsense? Doesn't make any sense to me.

So true. This is one of the reasons I believe Christianity is just another man made religion written by men. Think about how the religion of America was written around 2000 years ago and it wasn't until 1920 that women were given the right to vote. So God/Jesus never mentioned that we should give women equal rights? That's strange.

 

[RodISHI]

I've always been curious as to why women would follow a religion that relegates them to second class status. Christians, Jews, Muslims... all treat their women as inferior. So why do you follow such derogatory nonsense? Doesn't make any sense to me.

So true. This is one of the reasons I believe Christianity is just another man made religion written by men. Think about how the religion of America was written around 2000 years ago and it wasn't until 1920 that women were given the right to vote. So God/Jesus never mentioned that we should give women equal rights? That's strange.

So do you think people have just ignored that Adam means human not specifying male of female human when a man is created from the dust of the earth since Man was created in God's image/likeness male and female? It one can get through the portions they would recall that Jesus told them God is a spirit that is to be worshiped in spirit and truth.

Precepts of humans and God and the Son are not one in the same. The humans/adams that cannot get to point of understanding the spiritual portion limit themselves to a carnal view so they trip through the wilderness and deserts spiritually speaking until that light goes off inside of them. Would you give a child treasures knowing that they would waste them away or would you keep them safely tuck away until the child is prepared to take care of those treasures?

 

[sealybobo]

I've always been curious as to why women would follow a religion that relegates them to second class status. Christians, Jews, Muslims... all treat their women as inferior. So why do you follow such derogatory nonsense? Doesn't make any sense to me.

So true. This is one of the reasons I believe Christianity is just another man made religion written by men. Think about how the religion of America was written around 2000 years ago and it wasn't until 1920 that women were given the right to vote. So God/Jesus never mentioned that we should give women equal rights? That's strange.

So do you think people have just ignored that Adam means human not specifying male of female human when a man is created from the dust of the earth since Man was created in God's image/likeness male and female? It one can get through the portions they would recall that Jesus told them God is a spirit that is to be worshiped in spirit and truth.

Precepts of humans and God and the Son are not one in the same. The humans/adams that cannot get to point of understanding the spiritual portion limit themselves to a carnal view so they trip through the wilderness and deserts spiritually speaking until that light goes off inside of them. Would you give a child treasures knowing that they would waste them away or would you keep them safely tuck away until the child is prepared to take care of those treasures?

Who are you quoting, what are you saying and do you think you answered my question satisfactory? I don't.

Didn't god make Adam (man) and then to keep him company god made Eve out of his rib? And that was 12000 years ago. It wasn't till 11910 years later women got the right to vote. How do you explain that?

And women couldn't be priests?I know you'll like your explanation for this

 

[RodISHI]

I've always been curious as to why women would follow a religion that relegates them to second class status. Christians, Jews, Muslims... all treat their women as inferior. So why do you follow such derogatory nonsense? Doesn't make any sense to me.

So true. This is one of the reasons I believe Christianity is just another man made religion written by men. Think about how the religion of America was written around 2000 years ago and it wasn't until 1920 that women were given the right to vote. So God/Jesus never mentioned that we should give women equal rights? That's strange.

So do you think people have just ignored that Adam means human not specifying male of female human when a man is created from the dust of the earth since Man was created in God's image/likeness male and female? It one can get through the portions they would recall that Jesus told them God is a spirit that is to be worshiped in spirit and truth.

Precepts of humans and God and the Son are not one in the same. The humans/adams that cannot get to point of understanding the spiritual portion limit themselves to a carnal view so they trip through the wilderness and deserts spiritually speaking until that light goes off inside of them. Would you give a child treasures knowing that they would waste them away or would you keep them safely tuck away until the child is prepared to take care of those treasures?

Who are you quoting, what are you saying and do you think you answered my question satisfactory? I don't.

Didn't god make Adam (man) and then to keep him company god made Eve out of his rib? And that was 12000 years ago. It wasn't till 11910 years later women got the right to vote. How do you explain that?

And women couldn't be priests? I know you'll like your explanation for this

Are you a human? Do you have a conscious within your mind to keep you company? Is your spirit still sleep walking in your own garden of pleasure (eden)? Hasn't that piece portion somewhere in your mind had any tinges of guilt that made you think about all of things in life like strife or contention? Or have you been nudged by your consciousness at all doing something you knew wasn't right? < (a spiritual case at law, contention or strife within a chamber in your own mind). Do you have life spiritually speaking? If so you have a spiritual Eve in you. Eve= life, more specifically a spiritual host in you to help show you where life is and how to breath with a spirit of life. Does your own conscience try to justify its self? Would you prefer to tell your self that you won't die to your own carnal ways if you eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil? Paul said he died daily as he awoke each day and reminded self not to live to his carnal mind but to the spirit of God in himself.


Genesis 'adam- a human being, a common sort, a hypocrite, a dip in red dye human, ruddy, as a first man (not spiritual yet living to the carnal ideology), red. Hebrew word אָדַם


Paul speaking not of his own but about the spirit by Jesus Christ (anointed with Jehovah's salvation) in him.....
Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.



In the Old Testament women, daughters, sons, men, etc. mean different than what many think as it doesn't say male and female. Daughter generally the word used. The Hebrew word is bath which can mean a community, a church, a group. An example would be Bath-sheba (Bat-Sheva) "(a woman) of oath" whom David= 'beloved' takes as a wife was a city. This particular city is describing a formed thing where people dwell or their spirit resides which can be talking about a particular sect or group with a certain type of spirit.

It is not my fault that many have believed in lies or the errors that others precepts have brought forth. Humans are self contained spiritual dynamos that were all given a blow of breath patterned from an original set. The whole Bible describes this breath and what is in it but it is up to each to seek and search for that truth.

Did humans vote "12000 years ago" or even several hundred years ago throughout the world. Females and males have always been a driving force throughout history and some eras in history are more colorful than others. Males desiring control over females isn't Biblical but I'm sure there would be those who would attempt to contend with me about that subject.