Question for proponents of the Public Option Plan/Single Payer Plan.

[Ravi]

COBRA sucks because of the cartels and the CEO's...NOT because it exists...it exists FOR THE SAME REASON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

At least you finally admit that it sucks, which is what started this entire conversation.

It sucks only because it does not help those who need it the most. People who change jobs and have to wait 90 days before the new employer's plan kicks in can get away with not accepting it for 60 days. If before that point they find that they have unexpected medical expenses that will cost more than the premiums, they can elect to extend coverage, if not, they only need to sweat the next 30 days.

And for the record, I never said it sucks "because it exists", I have always stated that it sucks because it does not help those who need it the most.

Immie

COBRA is NOT designed to GIVE you free health coverage...IT DOES make PAYING FOR health insurance under a group rate POSSIBLE...

Maybe if we play a TV Game Show it will register...OK?


So Immie...You have a job that offers health insurance...your employer pays $600 and you pay $400 per month...Your wife has breast cancer and is going for chemotherapy...

BTW..........YOU"RE FIRED!!!

Let's play...

Choose door # 1, 2 or 3...

Door # 1- Your health insurance is canceled...tough shit...BTW, you now owe County Hospital $10,000 per month for Chemo...

Door # 2- Your health insurance is canceled...tough shit...BUT, you can go out and purchase health insurance on your own...$2500 per month... BTW, you STILL now owe County Hospital $10,000 per month for Chemo...because your wife's breast cancer is a preexisting condition...

Door # 3- COBRA...You can CONTINUE your health insurance at $1,000 per month and continue coverage for your wife's illness...

And because of President Obama, Democrats and the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009, abbreviated ARRA... THE STIMULUS PACKAGE...your premium for the next 9 months is $350...

TAKE YOUR TIME...

Excellent post and dead on the money.

 

[Immanuel]

Excellent post and dead on the money.

I take it you need to brush up on your reading skills as well.

Immie

 

[JakeStarkey]

So what you are saying then is that liberals are nothing but liars. They tell the poor that they look out for them, in order to scare them into voting Democrat, but in reality they don't give a damned about the poor. Is that where you have a problem? Someone who really does care about those in need?

Immie

Immanuel, your paragraph above reveals you either immoral, ignorant, or malignant. Which is it? Because what you wrote is flatly wrong.

 

[Immanuel]

So what you are saying then is that liberals are nothing but liars. They tell the poor that they look out for them, in order to scare them into voting Democrat, but in reality they don't give a damned about the poor. Is that where you have a problem? Someone who really does care about those in need?

Immie

Immanuel, your paragraph above reveals you either immoral, ignorant, or malignant. Which is it? Because what you wrote is flatly wrong.

Pissed off might be the word for it and tired of being accused of something that is entirely untrue by two liberals who have done nothing but lie throughtout the last couple of pages of this thread.

And besides, despite fact that I missed the "?", that first sentence was obviously a question and not a statement. I asked her if she was saying they were liars, I was not saying they were.

You should probably try going back and reading the thread too.

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

OMG! How is it possible that the only conservative in this discussion is speaking about helping the poor and the three liberals and possibly a fourth are saying F* the poor?

Immie

 

[JakeStarkey]

Immanuel, I understand now that you were going for hyperbole. OK. But the conservatives have offered nothing constructive since before the election. Health insurance companies have screwed everyone they can, bribed every elected official and appointed regulator they can, and it is going to stop now! Period. Health insurance reform is happening this term.

 

[Immanuel]

Immanuel, I understand now that you were going for hyperbole. OK. But the conservatives have offered nothing constructive since before the election. Health insurance companies have screwed everyone they can, bribed every elected official and appointed regulator they can, and it is going to stop now! Period. Health insurance reform is happening this term.

Conservatives have not done shit for eight years or more and you are right, reform is needed... NOW. I am not at all sure that it will come this term or even the next, but it is sorely needed.

Nor am I certain what form it should take!

Given no reform or the Public Option, I'd have to say something is better than nothing, but I am very concerned that the public option is the first step to utter failure of the health insurance industry.

Immie

 

[Ravi]

OMG! How is it possible that the only conservative in this discussion is speaking about helping the poor and the three liberals and possibly a fourth are saying F* the poor?

Immie

I don't know what you're smoking, but I'd like some.

COBRA isn't meant to help the poor...it's meant to help the temporarily unemployed. And it does, even though it is expensive.

If you are concerned about the poor perhaps you should support a public option of single payer instead of what we've got now.

And WHO said fuck the poor? Not one of us.

 

[Immanuel]

OMG! How is it possible that the only conservative in this discussion is speaking about helping the poor and the three liberals and possibly a fourth are saying F* the poor?

Immie

I don't know what you're smoking, but I'd like some.

COBRA isn't meant to help the poor...it's meant to help the temporarily unemployed. And it does, even though it is expensive.

If you are concerned about the poor perhaps you should support a public option of single payer instead of what we've got now.

And WHO said fuck the poor? Not one of us.

I would consider the temporary unemployed the poor. Sorry, but I see no income, or unemployment insurance to mean the poor.

If you are concerned about the poor perhaps you should support a public option of single payer instead of what we've got now.

You probably posted this before you got to see my last most. I don't support the "Public Option" because I think it is wrong for everyone including the poor, but it is more than likely better than what we have now.

You three have basically been saying F* the poor. My point through this entire discussion has been that it doesn't help those that need it the most and you guys keep acting like you don't give a damned... meaning F* the poor.

Immie

 

[Cold Fusion38]

COBRA is a cruel joke. They should just put a REAL Cobra in front of you and say good luck charming it. If you do you get to live one more day. Tomorrow we will start again.

 

[Ravi]

OMG! How is it possible that the only conservative in this discussion is speaking about helping the poor and the three liberals and possibly a fourth are saying F* the poor?

Immie

I don't know what you're smoking, but I'd like some.

COBRA isn't meant to help the poor...it's meant to help the temporarily unemployed. And it does, even though it is expensive.

If you are concerned about the poor perhaps you should support a public option of single payer instead of what we've got now.

And WHO said fuck the poor? Not one of us.

I would consider the temporary unemployed the poor. Sorry, but I see no income, or unemployment insurance to mean the poor.

If you are concerned about the poor perhaps you should support a public option of single payer instead of what we've got now.

You probably posted this before you got to see my last most. I don't support the "Public Option" because I think it is wrong for everyone including the poor, but it is more than likely better than what we have now.

You three have basically been saying F* the poor. My point through this entire discussion has been that it doesn't help those that need it the most and you guys keep acting like you don't give a damned... meaning F* the poor.

Immie

I had to take COBRA once when I was between jobs...and I didn't consider myself poor. Many unemployed people don't consider themselves poor, especially if they expect to be come employed again soon.

You're right...COBRA doesn't help the poor. It was never meant to help the poor. It's meant to allow people to keep their insurance temporarily before they find another job with insurance benefits.

The poor DON'T HAVE INSURANCE AT ALL. And neither do many of the not actually poor.

 

[Bfgrn]

Immanuel, I understand now that you were going for hyperbole. OK. But the conservatives have offered nothing constructive since before the election. Health insurance companies have screwed everyone they can, bribed every elected official and appointed regulator they can, and it is going to stop now! Period. Health insurance reform is happening this term.

Conservatives have not done shit for eight years or more and you are right, reform is needed... NOW. I am not at all sure that it will come this term or even the next, but it is sorely needed.

Nor am I certain what form it should take!

Given no reform or the Public Option, I'd have to say something is better than nothing, but I am very concerned that the public option is the first step to utter failure of the health insurance industry.

Immie

Immie...the first step to the utter failure of the health care industry is to do what the insurance cartels and the Republicans are trying to do...undermine our president's honest attempt to make health care affordable for EVERY American...

The Cost of Doing Nothing

Affordability
As health care costs continue to grow faster than wages, health insurance will become more and more unaffordable for more and more American families every day. The financial burdens associated with health care and health insurance will only get worse over time without action.The cost of the average employer-sponsored health insurance plan (ESI) for a family will reach $24,000 in 2016. This represents an 84 percent increase over 2008 premium levels. Under this scenario, we estimate that at least half of American households will need to spend more than 45 percent of their income to buy health insurance.

 

[Intense]

Immanuel, I understand now that you were going for hyperbole. OK. But the conservatives have offered nothing constructive since before the election. Health insurance companies have screwed everyone they can, bribed every elected official and appointed regulator they can, and it is going to stop now! Period. Health insurance reform is happening this term.

Conservatives have not done shit for eight years or more and you are right, reform is needed... NOW. I am not at all sure that it will come this term or even the next, but it is sorely needed.

Nor am I certain what form it should take!

Given no reform or the Public Option, I'd have to say something is better than nothing, but I am very concerned that the public option is the first step to utter failure of the health insurance industry.

Immie

Immie...the first step to the utter failure of the health care industry is to do what the insurance cartels and the Republicans are trying to do...undermine our president's honest attempt to make health care affordable for EVERY American...

The Cost of Doing Nothing

Affordability
As health care costs continue to grow faster than wages, health insurance will become more and more unaffordable for more and more American families every day. The financial burdens associated with health care and health insurance will only get worse over time without action.The cost of the average employer-sponsored health insurance plan (ESI) for a family will reach $24,000 in 2016. This represents an 84 percent increase over 2008 premium levels. Under this scenario, we estimate that at least half of American households will need to spend more than 45 percent of their income to buy health insurance.

Sorry guys, It's bad math that will compound the problem. Making Health Care more affordable is the solution, not a Hostile Take Over.

 

[Immanuel]

I don't know what you're smoking, but I'd like some.

COBRA isn't meant to help the poor...it's meant to help the temporarily unemployed. And it does, even though it is expensive.

If you are concerned about the poor perhaps you should support a public option of single payer instead of what we've got now.

And WHO said fuck the poor? Not one of us.

I would consider the temporary unemployed the poor. Sorry, but I see no income, or unemployment insurance to mean the poor.

If you are concerned about the poor perhaps you should support a public option of single payer instead of what we've got now.

You probably posted this before you got to see my last most. I don't support the "Public Option" because I think it is wrong for everyone including the poor, but it is more than likely better than what we have now.

You three have basically been saying F* the poor. My point through this entire discussion has been that it doesn't help those that need it the most and you guys keep acting like you don't give a damned... meaning F* the poor.

Immie

I had to take COBRA once when I was between jobs...and I didn't consider myself poor. Many unemployed people don't consider themselves poor, especially if they expect to be come employed again soon.

You're right...COBRA doesn't help the poor. It was never meant to help the poor. It's meant to allow people to keep their insurance temporarily before they find another job with insurance benefits.

The poor DON'T HAVE INSURANCE AT ALL. And neither do many of the not actually poor.

The point is Ravi, that most people in between jobs simply cannot afford it and that is the problem. It does not help most people who need it. You and Care may have chosen to continue your coverage. Such a choice may or may not have benefited you. My guess is that both of you paid more for coverage than you needed to pay and that you both would have been better off "gambling" and declining the coverage.

When I moved to Florida, it took me four months to find a job and from there I had to wait 90 days in my new job before I was eligible for coverage. I did not take COBRA as I could not afford it. You should have seen me the day before my new coverage was to take effect... I walked in the house and told my three children, "Sit down and don't move! I'm not going to have one of you break an arm or a leg 6 hours before we have coverage again"

COBRA is simply unreachable for most people.

Like most social programs, the idea behind COBRA is a great idea. However, the practicality of the situation means that the program literally sucks. For as long as I have been administrating health benefits, I have only known one person who maintained coverage and he was elderly, his wife was always in the hospital and they could not afford to pay for COBRA but neither could they afford not to have health insurance.

Immanuel, I understand now that you were going for hyperbole. OK. But the conservatives have offered nothing constructive since before the election. Health insurance companies have screwed everyone they can, bribed every elected official and appointed regulator they can, and it is going to stop now! Period. Health insurance reform is happening this term.

Conservatives have not done shit for eight years or more and you are right, reform is needed... NOW. I am not at all sure that it will come this term or even the next, but it is sorely needed.

Nor am I certain what form it should take!

Given no reform or the Public Option, I'd have to say something is better than nothing, but I am very concerned that the public option is the first step to utter failure of the health insurance industry.

Immie

Immie...the first step to the utter failure of the health care industry is to do what the insurance cartels and the Republicans are trying to do...undermine our president's honest attempt to make health care affordable for EVERY American...

The Cost of Doing Nothing

Affordability
As health care costs continue to grow faster than wages, health insurance will become more and more unaffordable for more and more American families every day. The financial burdens associated with health care and health insurance will only get worse over time without action.The cost of the average employer-sponsored health insurance plan (ESI) for a family will reach $24,000 in 2016. This represents an 84 percent increase over 2008 premium levels. Under this scenario, we estimate that at least half of American households will need to spend more than 45 percent of their income to buy health insurance.

Bfgrn,

I think I wrote that two years ago. I have been saying that for years. I fully understand that we are in dire need of a reform of our health insurance. However, I am in disagreement with you in regards to letting the government take control of another social program. They have proven with every program they have undertaken to be unsuccessful.

I happen to like the idea of not having to deal with health insurance anymore. I would love the idea of never having to worry about my coverage again. The thought of having Uncle Sam provide coverage for me and take out a payroll deduction from my check seems great. Hassle free for life! Where do I sign up?

But in reality, the program will run at a deficit for ever. Uncle Sam will fiddle with the laws and in a few years it will be bankrupt and the only thing keeping it going will be red ink and IOU's.

Do I have a better solution? Sadly, no!

But for people to preach that this is the saving grace of the American people and let's face it, that is exactly what you guys are doing, is absolutely ludicrous.

We've been in a health care crisis for at least 10 years. Things have been out of hand and ignored by those in Washington for a long time. Now that Liberal Democrats have control they see an opportunity for a power grab and frankly, I see this as frightening.

This is clearly an attempt to socialize medicine. The powers that be in Washington have said as much. When they finish with medicine what will be next? What kind of freedoms will we have when they are done?

Immie

 

[chanel]

I don't know what you're smoking, but I'd like some.

COBRA isn't meant to help the poor...it's meant to help the temporarily unemployed. And it does, even though it is expensive.

If you are concerned about the poor perhaps you should support a public option of single payer instead of what we've got now.

And WHO said fuck the poor? Not one of us.

I would consider the temporary unemployed the poor. Sorry, but I see no income, or unemployment insurance to mean the poor.

If you are concerned about the poor perhaps you should support a public option of single payer instead of what we've got now.

You probably posted this before you got to see my last most. I don't support the "Public Option" because I think it is wrong for everyone including the poor, but it is more than likely better than what we have now.

You three have basically been saying F* the poor. My point through this entire discussion has been that it doesn't help those that need it the most and you guys keep acting like you don't give a damned... meaning F* the poor.

Immie

I had to take COBRA once when I was between jobs...and I didn't consider myself poor. Many unemployed people don't consider themselves poor, especially if they expect to be come employed again soon.

You're right...COBRA doesn't help the poor. It was never meant to help the poor. It's meant to allow people to keep their insurance temporarily before they find another job with insurance benefits.

The poor DON'T HAVE INSURANCE AT ALL. And neither do many of the not actually poor.

What about Medicaid? In NJ we have NJ Familycare. A family of four can make up to $77,000 and qualify for a $6000 policy. I don't see that unreasonable. If I thought the feds could come up with a similar program, I would support it. But I am certain that all of us will be paying more.

 

[Care4all]

The only reason it is bad math, is because it is done with the insurance industry and a gift horse of tax dollars to them, and because it is NOT a hostile take over of the industry, a Universal, single payer plan.imho

 

[Immanuel]

COBRA is a cruel joke. They should just put a REAL Cobra in front of you and say good luck charming it. If you do you get to live one more day. Tomorrow we will start again.

And you! You are the one that got me in so much trouble!

I simply agree with you and get half the liberals on the planet pissed off at me and you run and hide!!! I owe you and I owe you big time!



Immie

 

[JakeStarkey]

Immie, no is pissed at you. Just startled at your poor logic.

 

[Intense]

The only reason it is bad math, is because it is done with the insurance industry and a gift horse of tax dollars to them, and because it is NOT a hostile take over of the industry, a Universal, single payer plan.imho

I don't support the stepping stone to Totalitarian Health Care, where the privileged get favors and we get screwed. It's bad math because there is abuse in the equation, that does remain and will continue to remain embedded. You are not addressing the symptoms, but justifying them through ignorance. Not your fault, they are well fortified and entrenched. Until we address the cost of service from the value perspective and break it down, we will continue to be sheared. It is wrong to think Government has no place with the muggers.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

Sorry Imm I had to get ready for a party we are having for a friend I ran into at my 20th HS reunion. I have know her since the 1st grade!!

If you must put me in front of a COBRA I can be pretty charming.