Question for proponents of the Public Option Plan/Single Payer Plan.

[Cold Fusion38]

I see nobody wants to bebate my common sense plan. Too expensive for the COs who fire people because they are too sick to work? Too much money for the Gov't to pay to insure that every citizen doesn't have to choose between eating, paying bill, or going bankrupt?

 

[Intense]

Well, a government run plan would have to hire people, too, so it's not clear to me how many jobs net would be lost or gained. What we do know is that if private insurance were replaced by government run insurance similar to Canada's system, massive amounts of capital that insurance companies now invest in our private sector economy would be diverted to buy Treasuries, as Medicare and SS do with their reserve funds, and to pay for the federal government's deficits. I've got to think that withdrawing this much capital from private investment would have a negative effect on economic growth and job creation.

Good post, " negative effect," is a massive understatement, The federal government has bankrupted Social Security, medicare, medicaid, freddie and fannie, the postal service, it's insanity to let them take over 6% of our economy. Yet, alot of these libs like to stand in line with their hands out, feeling very comfortable with the federal government in total control of their health care decisions. I guess they are used to standing in line being like dependent children as long as it does not involve their dime that's paying for it.

So Freddie and Fannie are government agencies now?? LOL Man you repukes are sure stupid!! Bush gave them billions in bail out money to keep them out of bankruptcy.. They bankrupted themselves.. If you want to blame the government then blame rebuttlicans for removing all the regulations..

As for the rest of your post? The only problem our government has is conservatives.. Ever since Social security and medicare were created, you morons have tried to defund them or steal from their coffers to pay for your escapades... How much Social security money went to Iraq??

Grow a brain will you and get a real arguement!

Bank Robbers defending Bank Robbers, defending bank robbers.
Crime wave engulfed the House, the Senate, and the Executive Branch. Follow the money. Follow the Control and Oversight. How much did you profit from the scheme MajikMist?????

The lot of you should be barred from public employment, and be made to pay back every penny. Selling something for nothing. Cleaning up the mess by destroying what we were built on. Fuck off and die sound too harsh? Well, May you reap what you sow, and leave me out of it. Pay for your own clean up.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

Good post, " negative effect," is a massive understatement, The federal government has bankrupted Social Security, medicare, medicaid, freddie and fannie, the postal service, it's insanity to let them take over 6% of our economy. Yet, alot of these libs like to stand in line with their hands out, feeling very comfortable with the federal government in total control of their health care decisions. I guess they are used to standing in line being like dependent children as long as it does not involve their dime that's paying for it.

So Freddie and Fannie are government agencies now?? LOL Man you repukes are sure stupid!! Bush gave them billions in bail out money to keep them out of bankruptcy.. They bankrupted themselves.. If you want to blame the government then blame rebuttlicans for removing all the regulations..

As for the rest of your post? The only problem our government has is conservatives.. Ever since Social security and medicare were created, you morons have tried to defund them or steal from their coffers to pay for your escapades... How much Social security money went to Iraq??

Grow a brain will you and get a real arguement!

Bank Robbers defending Bank Robbers, defending bank robbers.
Crime wave engulfed the House, the Senate, and the Executive Branch. Follow the money. Follow the Control and Oversight. How much did you profit from the scheme MajikMist?????

The lot of you should be barred from public employment, and be made to pay back every penny. Selling something for nothing. Cleaning up the mess by destroying what we were built on. Fuck off and die sound too harsh? Well, May you reap what you sow, and leave me out of it. Pay for your own clean up.

So people who are of lesser means should just be left to die? Sounds like you've got your OWN little death panel going on.

 

[Intense]

I see nobody wants to bebate my common sense plan. Too expensive for the COs who fire people because they are too sick to work? Too much money for the Gov't to pay to insure that every citizen doesn't have to choose between eating, paying bill, or going bankrupt?

You bring up valid concerns, yet there are many holes in your plan. You have Government, Insurance Company, Employer, Family, and Self, all a part of the equation. Why are you dumping everything on the employer? Tiny Company, Medium Company, Large Company, Major Company, Government Employer? Each would be effected differently.
Was the sickness or injury related to work? that is a factor.

It would seem that the best formula for compensation and care expenses would work out between Government and Insurance Company. The money has to be generated from something other than thin air, right? What are you paying into over the years? Does it address the issue in any way? if not that should be discussed and considered.

Sometimes when tragedy strikes, consolidation is a part of the resolution, as unfair as it would seem that you would have to sell assets to pay off what you are responsible for, the problem is compounded when you take out your neighbors with you. Prudence is a virtue you might spend more time developing.

The actual Medical costs should be something we discuss openly and fairly. Do they disappear when the person dies, or do they transfer? There are different categories and stages to consider. Different types of treatments, some sanctioned more than others, yet, it's your life, so that makes it your choice, provided you get the medical people to work with you. Right? So there are legal issues, responsibilities, much to be considered.

 

[Immanuel]

So hear is my thought on CONTINUED healthcare when you lose your job due to illness. As it is if you lose your job due to illness you have three choices. Pay for COBRA which is more then my mortgage, buy it yourself which is MORE than COBRA, or lose your coverage when you MOST need it. Now you have lived a good clean life you always pay your premiums on time you pay your deductables and you pay out of pocket for some services that you NEED but they won't cover you are a good family man. Now you are diagnosed with colon cancer which if treated EARLY has a high rate of sucessful treatment. The problem is that you are TOO SICK TO WORK!!! So you lose your job AND your coverage for you AND your family. You have NO income unless your wife works and because of life altering exp you could get on your wifes ins which is likely worse than yours so that's why you were insured with them in the FIRST place.....


So anyway you lost your job AND your health coverage. So you are financially DESTITUDE. You may lose EVERYTHING including your HOUSE unless you go to bankruptcy.


Now here is MY plan. If you lose your job due to an illness the company has to pay their portion of your healthcare and the Gov't pays the remainder. If your illness is TERMINAL the company pays their share till you die. That way you can work on your RECOVERY rather than what bills you can pay this week. Whether you can pay your mortgage, your utilities, your food for your children, your meds your doctors
what on EARTH will you do. You will die and your wife will have to claim bankruptcy after you're gone because she won't be able to AFFORD to pay the massive uncovered bills.

The COBRA laws suck. No if's and's or but's about it. Unless you are a CEO who just collected a very nice Golden Parachute at your termination you have no hope of continuing coverage.

Now, since you seem to be so angry at insurance companies (who are not at fault for the COBRA laws) would you explain how a single payer plan, the inevitable goal of the liberals in Congress, is going to make things better. Do you think you will still be able to afford coverage under a single payer plan? Do you think your employer will still pay a portion of your coverage or will it all come out of your payroll taxes? My guess is that the employer will be taxed as it is with Social Security, but you will have to pay your own share without any choice in the matter as too how much they charge you nor any choice in deductibles or coverage. Taxes going up and up and up!

Immie

 

[Bfgrn]

So hear is my thought on CONTINUED healthcare when you lose your job due to illness. As it is if you lose your job due to illness you have three choices. Pay for COBRA which is more then my mortgage, buy it yourself which is MORE than COBRA, or lose your coverage when you MOST need it. Now you have lived a good clean life you always pay your premiums on time you pay your deductables and you pay out of pocket for some services that you NEED but they won't cover you are a good family man. Now you are diagnosed with colon cancer which if treated EARLY has a high rate of sucessful treatment. The problem is that you are TOO SICK TO WORK!!! So you lose your job AND your coverage for you AND your family. You have NO income unless your wife works and because of life altering exp you could get on your wifes ins which is likely worse than yours so that's why you were insured with them in the FIRST place.....


So anyway you lost your job AND your health coverage. So you are financially DESTITUDE. You may lose EVERYTHING including your HOUSE unless you go to bankruptcy.


Now here is MY plan. If you lose your job due to an illness the company has to pay their portion of your healthcare and the Gov't pays the remainder. If your illness is TERMINAL the company pays their share till you die. That way you can work on your RECOVERY rather than what bills you can pay this week. Whether you can pay your mortgage, your utilities, your food for your children, your meds your doctors
what on EARTH will you do. You will die and your wife will have to claim bankruptcy after you're gone because she won't be able to AFFORD to pay the massive uncovered bills.

The COBRA laws suck. No if's and's or but's about it. Unless you are a CEO who just collected a very nice Golden Parachute at your termination you have no hope of continuing coverage.

Now, since you seem to be so angry at insurance companies (who are not at fault for the COBRA laws) would you explain how a single payer plan, the inevitable goal of the liberals in Congress, is going to make things better. Do you think you will still be able to afford coverage under a single payer plan? Do you think your employer will still pay a portion of your coverage or will it all come out of your payroll taxes? My guess is that the employer will be taxed as it is with Social Security, but you will have to pay your own share without any choice in the matter as too how much they charge you nor any choice in deductibles or coverage. Taxes going up and up and up!

Immie

The Cobra law doesn't suck... before there was a Cobra law, when you lost your job, you lost your health insurance...

The higher Cobra premium reflects A) the loss of employer participation AND B) medical providers cut huge deals for employer based insurance claims and the soak the shit out of individual policies...

WHY are you so f_cking stupid???

 

[Immanuel]

So hear is my thought on CONTINUED healthcare when you lose your job due to illness. As it is if you lose your job due to illness you have three choices. Pay for COBRA which is more then my mortgage, buy it yourself which is MORE than COBRA, or lose your coverage when you MOST need it. Now you have lived a good clean life you always pay your premiums on time you pay your deductables and you pay out of pocket for some services that you NEED but they won't cover you are a good family man. Now you are diagnosed with colon cancer which if treated EARLY has a high rate of sucessful treatment. The problem is that you are TOO SICK TO WORK!!! So you lose your job AND your coverage for you AND your family. You have NO income unless your wife works and because of life altering exp you could get on your wifes ins which is likely worse than yours so that's why you were insured with them in the FIRST place.....


So anyway you lost your job AND your health coverage. So you are financially DESTITUDE. You may lose EVERYTHING including your HOUSE unless you go to bankruptcy.


Now here is MY plan. If you lose your job due to an illness the company has to pay their portion of your healthcare and the Gov't pays the remainder. If your illness is TERMINAL the company pays their share till you die. That way you can work on your RECOVERY rather than what bills you can pay this week. Whether you can pay your mortgage, your utilities, your food for your children, your meds your doctors
what on EARTH will you do. You will die and your wife will have to claim bankruptcy after you're gone because she won't be able to AFFORD to pay the massive uncovered bills.

The COBRA laws suck. No if's and's or but's about it. Unless you are a CEO who just collected a very nice Golden Parachute at your termination you have no hope of continuing coverage.

Now, since you seem to be so angry at insurance companies (who are not at fault for the COBRA laws) would you explain how a single payer plan, the inevitable goal of the liberals in Congress, is going to make things better. Do you think you will still be able to afford coverage under a single payer plan? Do you think your employer will still pay a portion of your coverage or will it all come out of your payroll taxes? My guess is that the employer will be taxed as it is with Social Security, but you will have to pay your own share without any choice in the matter as too how much they charge you nor any choice in deductibles or coverage. Taxes going up and up and up!

Immie

The Cobra law doesn't suck... before there was a Cobra law, when you lost your job, you lost your health insurance...

The higher Cobra premium reflects A) the loss of employer participation AND B) medical providers cut huge deals for employer based insurance claims and the soak the shit out of individual policies...

WHY are you so f_cking stupid???

Why are you?

You get laid off your job, in the next thirty days you get a letter from your employer telling you that you have the option to continue your health insurance coverage. Within the next 30 days or so, you have to pay last month's and next month's health insurance premiums and you must maintain your payments throughout your unemployment and most likely for the 90 days until your new employer picks up your coverage.

That is impossible for the vast majority of people.

What part of that don't you understand, idiot?

Oh, and by the way, with the COBRA laws, if you can't pay you still lose your coverage.

What part of that don't you understand, stupid?

Immie

 

[Bfgrn]

The COBRA laws suck. No if's and's or but's about it. Unless you are a CEO who just collected a very nice Golden Parachute at your termination you have no hope of continuing coverage.

Now, since you seem to be so angry at insurance companies (who are not at fault for the COBRA laws) would you explain how a single payer plan, the inevitable goal of the liberals in Congress, is going to make things better. Do you think you will still be able to afford coverage under a single payer plan? Do you think your employer will still pay a portion of your coverage or will it all come out of your payroll taxes? My guess is that the employer will be taxed as it is with Social Security, but you will have to pay your own share without any choice in the matter as too how much they charge you nor any choice in deductibles or coverage. Taxes going up and up and up!

Immie

The Cobra law doesn't suck... before there was a Cobra law, when you lost your job, you lost your health insurance...

The higher Cobra premium reflects A) the loss of employer participation AND B) medical providers cut huge deals for employer based insurance claims and the soak the shit out of individual policies...

WHY are you so f_cking stupid???

Why are you?

You get laid off your job, in the next thirty days you get a letter from your employer telling you that you have the option to continue your health insurance coverage. Within the next 30 days or so, you have to pay last month's and next month's health insurance premiums and you must maintain your payments throughout your unemployment and most likely for the 90 days until your new employer picks up your coverage.

That is impossible for the vast majority of people.

What part of that don't you understand, idiot?

Oh, and by the way, with the COBRA laws, if you can't pay you still lose your coverage.

What part of that don't you understand, stupid?

Immie

Well pea brain, you are officially qualified as a DOLT...

WHAT PART of before COBRA there will be NO phone call, just a "You are canceled" notice in the mail...

BTW, If the phone call comes 30 days later, THEN last months premium is past due...

IF you lose you job and can't afford COBRA, you probably can't afford ANY health insurance, BUT you can apply for new insurance, but NOW any illness covered before you lost your job is NOW a preexisting condition...coverage DENIED for that affliction...

You are a drowning victim that is thrown a life jacket and whines that he wants a cabin cruiser...

IF you want FREE health care, move to CANADA!!!

Just IMAGINE (requires brains and empathy) where the elderly would be today without Medicare (government run health care), you know; those useless people that lose their job because they are too old to work leave the workforce...

BUT, help is here...THANKS to the evil Democrats!!!

The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 as signed by Barack Obama includes a 65% subsidy to employees for COBRA-enabled insurance for up to 9 months after an involuntary termination. An employee is eligible for this subsidy if

* the termination of employment was involuntary,
* the terminated employee has no other group sponsored health insurance option, and
* the terminated employee is otherwise eligible to enroll in COBRA.

 

[Immanuel]

The Cobra law doesn't suck... before there was a Cobra law, when you lost your job, you lost your health insurance...

The higher Cobra premium reflects A) the loss of employer participation AND B) medical providers cut huge deals for employer based insurance claims and the soak the shit out of individual policies...

WHY are you so f_cking stupid???

Why are you?

You get laid off your job, in the next thirty days you get a letter from your employer telling you that you have the option to continue your health insurance coverage. Within the next 30 days or so, you have to pay last month's and next month's health insurance premiums and you must maintain your payments throughout your unemployment and most likely for the 90 days until your new employer picks up your coverage.

That is impossible for the vast majority of people.

What part of that don't you understand, idiot?

Oh, and by the way, with the COBRA laws, if you can't pay you still lose your coverage.

What part of that don't you understand, stupid?

Immie

Well pea brain, you are officially qualified as a DOLT...

WHAT PART of before COBRA there will be NO phone call, just a "You are canceled" notice in the mail...

BTW, If the phone call comes 30 days later, THEN last months premium is past due...

IF you lose you job and can't afford COBRA, you probably can't afford ANY health insurance, BUT you can apply for new insurance, but NOW any illness covered before you lost your job is NOW a preexisting condition...coverage DENIED for that affliction...

You are a drowning victim that is thrown a life jacket and whines that he wants a cabin cruiser...

IF you want FREE health care, move to CANADA!!!

Just IMAGINE (requires brains and empathy) where the elderly would be today without Medicare (government run health care), you know; those useless people that lose their job because they are too old to work leave the workforce...

BUT, help is here...THANKS to the evil Democrats!!!

The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 as signed by Barack Obama includes a 65% subsidy to employees for COBRA-enabled insurance for up to 9 months after an involuntary termination. An employee is eligible for this subsidy if

* the termination of employment was involuntary,
* the terminated employee has no other group sponsored health insurance option, and
* the terminated employee is otherwise eligible to enroll in COBRA.

You are the one that wants free health care, not me and by the way the proposals going through Congress right now are not going to be free.

Yes, before COBRA, an employee was without, after COBRA the employee is still without. The COBRA law sucked. It didn't help and the ARRA doesn't help a whole hell of a lot either.

The problem is that normal laidoff person could not (pre-ARRA) and still cannot (post ARRA) afford health insurance during such a period. It doesn't help at all. ARRA is an effort to improve conditions, but it is not sufficient for most people who when laid off have to worry about where the mortgage is going to come from and can't even begin to worry about how they can pay health insurance premiums. Even with ARRA it is out of reach. That is why the COBRA laws suck.

Immie

 

[Intense]

So Freddie and Fannie are government agencies now?? LOL Man you repukes are sure stupid!! Bush gave them billions in bail out money to keep them out of bankruptcy.. They bankrupted themselves.. If you want to blame the government then blame rebuttlicans for removing all the regulations..

As for the rest of your post? The only problem our government has is conservatives.. Ever since Social security and medicare were created, you morons have tried to defund them or steal from their coffers to pay for your escapades... How much Social security money went to Iraq??

Grow a brain will you and get a real arguement!

Bank Robbers defending Bank Robbers, defending bank robbers.
Crime wave engulfed the House, the Senate, and the Executive Branch. Follow the money. Follow the Control and Oversight. How much did you profit from the scheme MajikMist?????

The lot of you should be barred from public employment, and be made to pay back every penny. Selling something for nothing. Cleaning up the mess by destroying what we were built on. Fuck off and die sound too harsh? Well, May you reap what you sow, and leave me out of it. Pay for your own clean up.

So people who are of lesser means should just be left to die? Sounds like you've got your OWN little death panel going on.

Funny that you would interpret it such. Public School Indoctrination????

I think that the Parasite Elites should stop building Their Wealth on the backs and necks of whats left of the true middle class and the poor, and maybe find productive work. Your management skills are too lacking, your compensation is off the charts.

 

[Bfgrn]

Why are you?

You get laid off your job, in the next thirty days you get a letter from your employer telling you that you have the option to continue your health insurance coverage. Within the next 30 days or so, you have to pay last month's and next month's health insurance premiums and you must maintain your payments throughout your unemployment and most likely for the 90 days until your new employer picks up your coverage.

That is impossible for the vast majority of people.

What part of that don't you understand, idiot?

Oh, and by the way, with the COBRA laws, if you can't pay you still lose your coverage.

What part of that don't you understand, stupid?

Immie

Well pea brain, you are officially qualified as a DOLT...

WHAT PART of before COBRA there will be NO phone call, just a "You are canceled" notice in the mail...

BTW, If the phone call comes 30 days later, THEN last months premium is past due...

IF you lose you job and can't afford COBRA, you probably can't afford ANY health insurance, BUT you can apply for new insurance, but NOW any illness covered before you lost your job is NOW a preexisting condition...coverage DENIED for that affliction...

You are a drowning victim that is thrown a life jacket and whines that he wants a cabin cruiser...

IF you want FREE health care, move to CANADA!!!

Just IMAGINE (requires brains and empathy) where the elderly would be today without Medicare (government run health care), you know; those useless people that lose their job because they are too old to work leave the workforce...

BUT, help is here...THANKS to the evil Democrats!!!

The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 as signed by Barack Obama includes a 65% subsidy to employees for COBRA-enabled insurance for up to 9 months after an involuntary termination. An employee is eligible for this subsidy if

* the termination of employment was involuntary,
* the terminated employee has no other group sponsored health insurance option, and
* the terminated employee is otherwise eligible to enroll in COBRA.

You are the one that wants free health care, not me and by the way the proposals going through Congress right now are not going to be free.

Yes, before COBRA, an employee was without, after COBRA the employee is still without. The COBRA law sucked. It didn't help and the ARRA doesn't help a whole hell of a lot either.

The problem is that normal laidoff person could not (pre-ARRA) and still cannot (post ARRA) afford health insurance during such a period. It doesn't help at all. ARRA is an effort to improve conditions, but it is not sufficient for most people who when laid off have to worry about where the mortgage is going to come from and can't even begin to worry about how they can pay health insurance premiums. Even with ARRA it is out of reach. That is why the COBRA laws suck.

Immie

Well pea brain, you've identified the very HEART of our health care crisis, coverage is tied to your job and NO ONE can afford health insurance on their own, especially if they lose their job, and if you want to improve yourself by changing jobs, you have to weigh the value of the coverage you will lose due to "now" preexisting conditions...but your pea brainism is placing the BLAME on a program that has absolutely NO blame at all, COBRA offers SOME assistance vs. ABSOLUTELY NONE before it's enactment...

So, paying 35% vs. 100% is still not good enough for you, and you accuse ME of wanting free health care...

Immie is now DOLT certified ...

 

[Immanuel]

Well pea brain, you are officially qualified as a DOLT...

WHAT PART of before COBRA there will be NO phone call, just a "You are canceled" notice in the mail...

BTW, If the phone call comes 30 days later, THEN last months premium is past due...

IF you lose you job and can't afford COBRA, you probably can't afford ANY health insurance, BUT you can apply for new insurance, but NOW any illness covered before you lost your job is NOW a preexisting condition...coverage DENIED for that affliction...

You are a drowning victim that is thrown a life jacket and whines that he wants a cabin cruiser...

IF you want FREE health care, move to CANADA!!!

Just IMAGINE (requires brains and empathy) where the elderly would be today without Medicare (government run health care), you know; those useless people that lose their job because they are too old to work leave the workforce...

BUT, help is here...THANKS to the evil Democrats!!!

The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 as signed by Barack Obama includes a 65% subsidy to employees for COBRA-enabled insurance for up to 9 months after an involuntary termination. An employee is eligible for this subsidy if

* the termination of employment was involuntary,
* the terminated employee has no other group sponsored health insurance option, and
* the terminated employee is otherwise eligible to enroll in COBRA.

You are the one that wants free health care, not me and by the way the proposals going through Congress right now are not going to be free.

Yes, before COBRA, an employee was without, after COBRA the employee is still without. The COBRA law sucked. It didn't help and the ARRA doesn't help a whole hell of a lot either.

The problem is that normal laidoff person could not (pre-ARRA) and still cannot (post ARRA) afford health insurance during such a period. It doesn't help at all. ARRA is an effort to improve conditions, but it is not sufficient for most people who when laid off have to worry about where the mortgage is going to come from and can't even begin to worry about how they can pay health insurance premiums. Even with ARRA it is out of reach. That is why the COBRA laws suck.

Immie

Well pea brain, you've identified the very HEART of our health care crisis, coverage is tied to your job and NO ONE can afford health insurance on their own, especially if they lose their job, and if you want to improve yourself by changing jobs, you have to weigh the value of the coverage you will lose due to "now" preexisting conditions...but your pea brainism is placing the BLAME on a program that has absolutely NO blame at all, COBRA offers SOME assistance vs. ABSOLUTELY NONE before it's enactment...

So, paying 35% vs. 100% is still not good enough for you, and you accuse ME of wanting free health care...

Immie is now DOLT certified ...

I don't want free health care. Although, I would be more than happy to be taxed to help those who need it.

COBRA does not do the job for those in need, nor does ARRA solve the problem. Both are government failures... and idiots like you want to add another failure to the package. I am not opposed to helping the poor. I never have been.

I am, however, concerned about adding another program doomed to failure that won't solve the problem.

Immie

 

[logical4u]

The Truth About the Health Care Bills -
Michael Connelly,
Ret. Constitutional Attorney
08.24.09

Well, I have done it! I have read the entire text of proposed House Bill 3200: The Affordable Health Care Choices Act of 2009. I studied it with particular emphasis from my area of expertise, constitutional law. I was frankly concerned that parts of the proposed law that were being discussed might be unconstitutional. What I found was far worse than what I had heard or expected.

To begin with, much of what has been said about the law and its implications is in fact true, despite what the Democrats and the media are saying. The law does provide for rationing of health care, particularly where senior citizens and other classes of citizens are involved, free health care for illegal immigrants, free abortion services, and probably forced participation in abortions by members of the medical profession.

The Bill will also eventually force private insurance companies out of business and put everyone into a government run system. All decisions about personal health care will ultimately be made by federal bureaucrats and most of them will not be health care professionals. Hospital admissions, payments to physicians, and allocations of necessary medical devices will be strictly controlled.

However, as scary as all of that it, it just scratches the surface. In fact, I have concluded that this legislation really has no intention of providing affordable health care choices. Instead it is a convenient cover for the most massive transfer of power to the Executive Branch of government that has ever occurred, or even been contemplated. If this law or a similar one is adopted, major portions of the Constitution of the United States will effectively have been destroyed.

The first thing to go will be the masterfully crafted balance of power between the Executive, Legislative, and Judicial branches of the U.S. Government. The Congress will be transferring to the Obama Administration authority in a number of different areas over the lives of the American people and the businesses they own. The irony is that the Congress doesn't have any authority to legislate in most of those areas to begin with. I defy anyone to read the text of the U.S. Constitution and find any authority granted to the members of Congress to regulate health care.

This legislation also provides for access by the appointees of the Obama administration of all of your personal healthcare information, your personal financial information, and the information of your employer, physician, and hospital. All of this is a direct violation of the specific provisions of the 4th Amendment to the Constitution protecting against unreasonable searches and seizures. You can also forget about the right to privacy. That will have been legislated into oblivion regardless of what the 3rd and 4th Amendments may provide.

If you decide not to have healthcare insurance or if you have private insurance that is not deemed "acceptable" to the "Health Choices Administrator" appointed by Obama there will be a tax imposed on you. It is called a "tax" instead of a fine because of the intent to avoid application of the due process clause of the 5th Amendment. However, that doesn't work because since there is nothing in the law that allows you to contest or appeal the imposition of the tax, it is definitely depriving someone of property without the "due process of law.

So, there are three of those pesky amendments that the far left hate so much out the original ten in the Bill of Rights that are effectively nullified by this law. It doesn't stop there though. The 9th Amendment that provides: "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people;" The 10th Amendment states: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are preserved to the States respectively, or to the people." Under the provisions of this piece of Congressional handiwork neither the people nor the states are going to have any rights or powers at all in many areas that once were theirs to control.

I could write many more pages about this legislation, but I think you get the idea. This is not about health care; it is about seizing power and limiting rights. Article 6 of the Constitution requires the members of both houses of Congress to "be bound by oath or affirmation" to support the Constitution. If I was a member of Congress I would not be able to vote for this legislation or anything like it without feeling I was violating that sacred oath or affirmation. If I voted for it anyway I would hope the American people would hold me accountable.

For those who might doubt the nature of this threat I suggest they consult the source.
Here is a link to the Constitution:http://www.archives.gov/ex hibits/charters/constituti on_transcript.html
And another to the Bill of Rights: http://www.archives.gov/ex hibits/charters/bill_of_ri ghts_transcript.html

There you can see exactly what we are about to have taken from us.

Michael Connelly

Retired attorney,

Constitutional Law Instructor

Carrollton , Texas

 

[Ravi]

The problem is that normal laidoff person could not (pre-ARRA) and still cannot (post ARRA) afford health insurance during such a period.
Immie

Guess what? Normal, everyday people that don't work for big companies can't afford health care at all. At all.

This entire discussion about COBRA is silly.

 

[Bfgrn]

you are the one that wants free health care, not me and by the way the proposals going through congress right now are not going to be free.

Yes, before cobra, an employee was without, after cobra the employee is still without. The cobra law sucked. It didn't help and the arra doesn't help a whole hell of a lot either.

The problem is that normal laidoff person could not (pre-arra) and still cannot (post arra) afford health insurance during such a period. It doesn't help at all. Arra is an effort to improve conditions, but it is not sufficient for most people who when laid off have to worry about where the mortgage is going to come from and can't even begin to worry about how they can pay health insurance premiums. Even with arra it is out of reach. That is why the cobra laws suck.

Immie

well pea brain, you've identified the very heart of our health care crisis, coverage is tied to your job and no one can afford health insurance on their own, especially if they lose their job, and if you want to improve yourself by changing jobs, you have to weigh the value of the coverage you will lose due to "now" preexisting conditions...but your pea brainism is placing the blame on a program that has absolutely no blame at all, cobra offers some assistance vs. Absolutely none before it's enactment...

So, paying 35% vs. 100% is still not good enough for you, and you accuse me of wanting free health care...

Immie is now dolt certified ...

i don't want free health care. Although, i would be more than happy to be taxed to help those who need it.

Taxes... Are collected by whom????????? (hint: Starts with a G)

cobra does not do the job for those in need, nor does arra solve the problem. Both are government failures... And idiots like you want to add another failure to the package. I am not opposed to helping the poor. I never have been.

I am, however, concerned about adding another program doomed to failure that won't solve the problem.

SO, the entity (hint: Starts with a G) our founding fathers created to address citizen grievances and to protect the public good is a failure...well maybe your fairy godmother will pay for your health insurance?

immie - dolt certified

lol

 

[Immanuel]

well pea brain, you've identified the very heart of our health care crisis, coverage is tied to your job and no one can afford health insurance on their own, especially if they lose their job, and if you want to improve yourself by changing jobs, you have to weigh the value of the coverage you will lose due to "now" preexisting conditions...but your pea brainism is placing the blame on a program that has absolutely no blame at all, cobra offers some assistance vs. Absolutely none before it's enactment...

So, paying 35% vs. 100% is still not good enough for you, and you accuse me of wanting free health care...

Immie is now dolt certified ...

i don't want free health care. Although, i would be more than happy to be taxed to help those who need it.

Taxes... Are collected by whom????????? (hint: Starts with a G)

cobra does not do the job for those in need, nor does arra solve the problem. Both are government failures... And idiots like you want to add another failure to the package. I am not opposed to helping the poor. I never have been.

I am, however, concerned about adding another program doomed to failure that won't solve the problem.

SO, the entity (hint: Starts with a G) our founding fathers created to address citizen grievances and to protect the public good is a failure...well maybe your fairy godmother will pay for your health insurance?

immie - dolt certified

lol

Obviously, you have no argument.

It has been proven to you over and over that COBRA is a failure. The citizens who are to be assisted by both COBRA and ARRA are not helped by it, yet you continue to claim it is a great program.

You are the dolt, Bfgrn, yes you. You said that the program did not suck because it continued health care for those who are unemployed. Yet, when it is proven that it does not provide health insurance for the poor you fall back on mularky and claim, I want free health insurance without even a basis for such a lie.

Yeah, your are an idiot of the third class. Come up with a real argument as to why you think COBRA is a worthwhile program, if you can.

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

The problem is that normal laidoff person could not (pre-ARRA) and still cannot (post ARRA) afford health insurance during such a period.
Immie

Guess what? Normal, everyday people that don't work for big companies can't afford health care at all. At all.

This entire discussion about COBRA is silly.

Tell that to Bfgrn. He thinks that COBRA helps the unemployed and that a single payer system will solve everyone's problems.

Immie

 

[Ravi]

The problem is that normal laidoff person could not (pre-ARRA) and still cannot (post ARRA) afford health insurance during such a period.
Immie

Guess what? Normal, everyday people that don't work for big companies can't afford health care at all. At all.

This entire discussion about COBRA is silly.

Tell that to Bfgrn. He thinks that COBRA helps the unemployed and that a single payer system will solve everyone's problems.

Immie

You're the one that is wrong. COBRA does help the unemployed...they can choose to continue their health care insurance if they can afford it until they are employed once again. No one forces anyone to take COBRA. And yes, it is expensive since the employee must pay the employer's previous share of insurance as well as their own.

COBRA wouldn't be needed if we had a single payer system that was paid for by tax dollars.

Your arguments get weaker, and weaker, and weaker.

You never even responded to the fact that we as taxpayers are already paying for 46% of all American's medical coverage...and the most expensive groups to boot.

 

[Intense]

Guess what? Normal, everyday people that don't work for big companies can't afford health care at all. At all.

This entire discussion about COBRA is silly.

Tell that to Bfgrn. He thinks that COBRA helps the unemployed and that a single payer system will solve everyone's problems.

Immie

You're the one that is wrong. COBRA does help the unemployed...they can choose to continue their health care insurance if they can afford it until they are employed once again. No one forces anyone to take COBRA. And yes, it is expensive since the employee must pay the employer's previous share of insurance as well as their own.

COBRA wouldn't be needed if we had a single payer system that was paid for by tax dollars.

Your arguments get weaker, and weaker, and weaker.

You never even responded to the fact that we as taxpayers are already paying for 46% of all American's medical coverage...and the most expensive groups to boot.

If it was paid for by private dollars the incentive would be more towards what is affordable, rather than blank check spending. We want expenses to be transparent and accountable, not a black hole.

 

[Immanuel]

Guess what? Normal, everyday people that don't work for big companies can't afford health care at all. At all.

This entire discussion about COBRA is silly.

Tell that to Bfgrn. He thinks that COBRA helps the unemployed and that a single payer system will solve everyone's problems.

Immie

You're the one that is wrong. COBRA does help the unemployed...they can choose to continue their health care insurance if they can afford it until they are employed once again. No one forces anyone to take COBRA. And yes, it is expensive since the employee must pay the employer's previous share of insurance as well as their own.

COBRA wouldn't be needed if we had a single payer system that was paid for by tax dollars.

Your arguments get weaker, and weaker, and weaker.

You never even responded to the fact that we as taxpayers are already paying for 46% of all American's medical coverage...and the most expensive groups to boot.

Where you are wrong, RAVI, is that the people who really need COBRA are not the ones who leave one employer and move to another right away, it is the people who are laid off and do not have a job and no prospects on the horizon. Those are the ones that COBRA was designed to protect. Even people who leave their jobs for another job and have to wait for 90 days before they are covered on their new employer's plan cannot usually afford the additional premiums.

I thought you liberals cared about the needy... am I wrong?

Immie