Question about the States selling the parks

[☭proletarian☭]

If this guy can charge the same fees and make a profit on (most of) the state and federal parks, then why can't the States show a profit when they're bringing in the same revenue form the same fees?!

 

[Sherry]

If you're referring to the guy who was on Beck, he's renting the parks, and he saves a bundle by not having to employ state workers.

 

[Avatar4321]

Easy. Because by definition Governments dont run efficiently at all.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

If you're referring to the guy who was on Beck, he's renting the parks, and he saves a bundle by not having to employ state workers.

So it's a problem of government wages more than anything else?

 

[Sherry]

If you're referring to the guy who was on Beck, he's renting the parks, and he saves a bundle by not having to employ state workers.

So it's a problem of government wages more than anything else?

Well he didn't go into a detailed cost analysis, but he certainly made that point. It makes sense.

 

[KissMy]

Indiana leased the the entire length of the 157-mile toll road Interstate 90 for $3.8 billion to a consortium made up of the Spanish construction firm Cintra and the Macquarie Infrastructure Group (MIG) of Australia in exchange for the right to maintain, operate and collect tolls for the following 75 years. The two companies formed the Indiana Toll Road Concession Company to operate the road.

Indiana made out because they could not run the toll road efficiently enough to make a profit. The sale made the the state 3.8 billion. This was Similar to the Chicago Skyway transaction in 2004.

 

[Oddball]

A: Because bureaucrats are insulated from the financial consequences of their actions and poor customer service.

Even though for-profit operations may indeed charge more, they have to, at least, try to make people feel as though they would rather have the experience than the money.

 

[Toro]

Indiana leased the the entire length of the 157-mile toll road Interstate 90 for $3.8 billion to a consortium made up of the Spanish construction firm Cintra and the Macquarie Infrastructure Group (MIG) of Australia in exchange for the right to maintain, operate and collect tolls for the following 75 years. The two companies formed the Indiana Toll Road Concession Company to operate the road.

Indiana made out because they could not run the toll road efficiently enough to make a profit. The sale made the the state 3.8 billion. This was Similar to the Chicago Skyway transaction in 2004.

Macquire Infrastructure Group has lost a bundle. Does that mean they can't run the road efficiently?

Toll roads are being hived off to the private sector not because the government can't run a road efficiently - your tolls for the private roads are going up BTW, I've seen the numbers - but because governments are getting strapped and running out of cash. So they are selling off state assets to pay for spending now. Its kind of like selling your house so you can eat today.

 

[blastoff]

If you're referring to the guy who was on Beck, he's renting the parks, and he saves a bundle by not having to employ state workers.

So it's a problem of government wages more than anything else?

More like wages and unfunded legacy benefits states are on the hook for well into the future.

In the aftermath of NJ governor Christie's comments last week about the state's dire financial situation, one example was bandied about by various commentators. I might not be recalling the exact numbers now but they're close. They cited a 49-year-old state employee who was retiring. During his working years the state collected something like $150k from his paychecks to go into the hopper to pay his retirement benefits. But at only age 49 the state could be on the hook for as much as $3M in benefits and health care the rest of his life. And he's just one former state employee. God only knows what the dollars add up to for all current and future retirees, but it's more than the state can possibly sustain.

And NJ ain't alone. Plenty of other states are in a similar boat, and they're all desperate to raise cash however and wherever they can. It's a huge problem but it's not like state legislatures haven't known for decades now such problems were on their horizons. But they kept spending year after year anyway.

 

[uscitizen]

If you're referring to the guy who was on Beck, he's renting the parks, and he saves a bundle by not having to employ state workers.

Contractors like the ones that watched the girl get beat up at the station?
Who are more interested in profit than protecting the park?

Parks are a trust for future generations, they are not ours to squander.

 

[Sherry]

If you're referring to the guy who was on Beck, he's renting the parks, and he saves a bundle by not having to employ state workers.

Contractors like the ones that watched the girl get beat up at the station?
Who are more interested in profit than protecting the park?

Parks are a trust for future generations, they are not ours to squander.

I don't know what you're rambling about.

 

[uscitizen]

If you're referring to the guy who was on Beck, he's renting the parks, and he saves a bundle by not having to employ state workers.

Contractors like the ones that watched the girl get beat up at the station?
Who are more interested in profit than protecting the park?

Parks are a trust for future generations, they are not ours to squander.

I don't know what you're rambling about.

Why am I not suprised?

 

[Sherry]

Contractors like the ones that watched the girl get beat up at the station?
Who are more interested in profit than protecting the park?

Parks are a trust for future generations, they are not ours to squander.

I don't know what you're rambling about.

Why am I not suprised?

Awww you must get that a lot.

 

[uscitizen]

I don't know what you're rambling about.

Why am I not suprised?

Awww you must get that a lot.

Yeah I do.

So sad.

 

[JWBooth]

A: Because bureaucrats are insulated from the financial consequences of their actions and poor customer service.

Even though for-profit operations may indeed charge more, they have to, at least, try to make people feel as though they would rather have the experience than the money.

 

[slackjawed]

I know Warren. I have been working for his company in the summer for the past 3 years, and will be on the job next summer as well.
The fact is, they run parks and recreation areas all over the west, and do a much better job of it than the state parks or the forest service.
They make money, but the way they do it, the government agency makes money as well.
It works like this;
The government(state or feds) put out a call for bids to run the 'park'. The lowest bid they can accept is the amount that the park has made for the government in the past.
keep in mind, most parks have not turned a profit in years, so they sometimes go back a few years.

take for example Roper lake State Park; Arizona State Parks: Roper Lake: Home

This park was willed to the state by the previous owner with the stipulation that if it did not continue to be a park, it reverts back to the family.
So, anyway, say the park made 100k in 1998. The bid is at least 100k, and the bidding process usually produces more than the minimum.
The winning bid pays the bid price up front, say 110k. The state gets 110k up front. The concession company then is responsible for operating costs, maintainence, ect, and collects the fees. the fees are set by law, they don't change.
What does change is that the state gets an assured amount, and the park stays open.

people should be aware that from coast to coast, private concessioniers run most all the parks and recreation areas. the government started this a long time ago.

The above example, roper lake state park, will revert back to the family and cease to be a park ever again if the state closes it for even one season.

 

[slackjawed]

If you're referring to the guy who was on Beck, he's renting the parks, and he saves a bundle by not having to employ state workers.

Contractors like the ones that watched the girl get beat up at the station?
Who are more interested in profit than protecting the park?

Parks are a trust for future generations, they are not ours to squander.

RRM does a much better job maintaining the recreation areas than the forest service ever did. law enforcement is the responsibility of the owner- government, in the parks. RRM doesn't do that at all. They do call the sherriff or the ranger or whomever.

The forest service all but destroyed the recreation area i worked at, and it was literally saved by RRM..........

 

[slackjawed]

Another aspect of the government running the parks or recreation areas as opposed to the government agencies, is that goverment employees have to be paid a set wage, and supplied a vehicle, ect. They usually get paid for drive time, as they have a home somewhere thatthey have to commute from and to.
There are federal and state laws that limit the time one can stay in the forest or a park, usually 14 days seperated by a 30 day period.
What RRM does is to find retired people, like me, that want to stay in the park or recreation area all season, which is allowed for their employees by the terms of their contract. The "workampers" (thats what we are called) must be paid by law, and the space they camp in all season is part of that pay.
A couple working for RRM can expect to be paid the following for 5 days of work a week;

A space for your rv, usually with power, or fuel for your generator if there is no power
about 650.00 apiece a month. (1300 bucks a month)

The above amounts are set so thatt hey do not interdere with SS or pensions, which limit the amount one can make without the benefits being affected.

RRM pays the managment people, which they have at every park or recreation area, 'normal' wages', just like working anywhere.

because they staff the parks and recreation areas with people that want to be there, and enjoy and respect the parks/recreation areas, and they live there all season, the places are better watched, and better maintained.

 

[slackjawed]

One more thing about private concessions in the parks.
Since the inception of both Yellowstone and the Grand canyon as National parks, the Fred Harvey Company has operated both these national parks, not the federal government.
the park service provides the rules, law enforcement and fire protection, but the Harvey company has always run both these parks........not the feds.

 

[KissMy]

If you're referring to the guy who was on Beck, he's renting the parks, and he saves a bundle by not having to employ state workers.

Contractors like the ones that watched the girl get beat up at the station?
Who are more interested in profit than protecting the park?

Parks are a trust for future generations, they are not ours to squander.

I don't know what you're rambling about.

These guards job is only to observe & report problems. The security guards contract prevents them from carrying weapons or making physical contact with attackers because of stupid government bureaucrats rules of engagement. These guard contracts cost more than police. I bet the contractor paid some campaign contributions to elected officials.