Punished by Rewards

Discussion in 'Education' started by Sky Dancer, Jun 9, 2012.

  1. Sky Dancer
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    Sky Dancer BANNED

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    Alfie Kohn is an educator that wrote a book saying that all forms of reward and punishment are manipulation and should be abandoned in education.

    Judging people does not help them.

    "Alfie Kohn shows that while
    manipulating people with incentives seems
    to work in the short run, it is a strategy that
    ultimately fails and even does lasting harm.
    Our workplaces and classrooms will continue
    to decline, he argues, until we begin to
    question our reliance on a theory of motivation
    derived from laboratory animals.
    Drawing from hundreds of studies, Kohn
    demonstrates that people actually do inferior
    work when they are enticed with
    money, grades, or other incentives. Programs
    that use rewards to change people's
    behavior are similarly ineffective over the
    long run. Promising goodies to children for
    good behavior can never produce anything
    more than temporary obedience. In fact,
    the more we use artificial inducements to
    motivate people, the more they lose interest
    in what we're bribing them to do. Rewards
    turn play into work, and work into drudgery.
    http://www.deming.ch/Alfie_Kohn/E_Reward.pdf

    I first heard about Alfie Kohn from Marshall Rosenberg's book, Speaking Peace. Rosenberg teachs non-violent communication.

    Anyone like to discuss NVC in schools and Alfie Kohn's ideas?
     
  2. chanel
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    chanel Silver Member

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    I disagree. There are too many factors that influence behavior, school success, and ultimately job satisfaction.

    We live in a competitive world. Teaching children that they will be rewarded for good grades and good behavior is important. Eliminating rewards will only benefit those who never receive them.

    And even if the only benefit is "temporary obedience", as a classroom teacher I will say "I'll take that".
     
  3. Mad Scientist
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    Mad Scientist Deplorable Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    We should apply the same thing to everyones job, then we'll see just how effective it is.

    "In and effort to increase production and efficiency, we will be removing such incentives as Pay and Time Off". You think the Unions would go for that?

    Also, non-violent communication is fine when the person you're talking to is non-violent but if they get violent, THEN what you gonna' do?

    See, that's where the 2nd Amendment comes in.
     
  4. Sky Dancer
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    The point is that reward and punishment, carrot and stick, only works for the short term. Non-violent communication works much more effectively. You teach a person how to get their needs met with less cost.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2012
  5. California Girl
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    Great idea, let's not teach our kids that they need to compete. That'll work out real well - in the la-la-land that Sky lives in.
     
  6. Toro
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    Toro Diamond Member

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    My needs are to get paid more. I do that by being better than others. It's more costly to use non-violent communication. "You're wonderful and I respect you" does not substitute for a bank account full of cash.
     
  7. Sky Dancer
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    Consider the story of Tom Sawyer. Tom motivated an entire community of children to white wash the fence for him.

    Tom didn't offer any rewards to the children. In fact, they paid him to let them white wash the fence for him. He made the task of whitewashing the fence attractive in his attitude toward it. He made white washing the fence with joy something difficult to attain. He made work play.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2012
  8. California Girl
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    Consider.... real life.

    The End.
     
  9. chanel
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    chanel Silver Member

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    Fiction. How does Kohn feel about punishment? My guess is that the same logic would apply. Could you imagine a world where there are no consequences for bad behavior? I can.
     
  10. Sky Dancer
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    Imagine a world where you actually found out what need a person was trying to fulfill by an unskillful action and teaching that person how he can better meet his needs with less cost.

    It's time to stop treating human beings like lab rats.
     

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