Privatizing Public Education

[chanel]

For the record: I am a Republican, a public school teacher, and a union member. While I am the first to say that the system is broken, I do not believe private companies can do a better job working within the broken system.

Check this out:

For nearly a decade, the Philadelphia School District has been sending students with discipline problems who are at risk of dropping out of school to the for-profit Delaware Valley High School.

This academic year, the district is paying the firm $4.1 million to operate a disciplinary school on Kelly Drive in East Falls and an accelerated high school program in Southwest Philadelphia for dropouts to obtain diplomas.

Attorney David T. Shulick, Delaware Valley's chief executive officer, has long said that his company operates "the best and the lowest-cost" alternative schools in the city.

Federal authorities are now investigating whether political influence helped Delaware Valley obtain recent contracts, according to knowledgeable sources.

But some former teachers allege grades are changed and students promoted even if they skip class and fail to turn in assignments.

"Everybody graduates," one former staffer said. "Everybody gets a piece of paper, no matter what."

They also questioned the school's attendance records and said teachers were paid significantly less than is shown in contracts with the district.

Mixed reviews for Delaware Valley High School

It's a lengthy article, but an interesting read. It highlights many of the same issues and problems that public schools face with students who are basically "uneducable". It also shows that nepotism and political influence infiltrate all aspects of the system, both public and private.

Comments?

 

[Bfgrn]

Comments? Just one.

If you privatize 'public' education, it is no longer 'public' education, it becomes 'private' education.

 

[chanel]

Not necessarily. There are private companies who provide services to public schools. In the past, it only involved food, transportation, janitorial services, etc. but now it can include support staff and even "alternative programs".

Private schools are paid for by private citizens. Privatized public schools are paid for by taxpayers.

Our school is headed to privatize our teacher's aides and substitutes. I'll get back to you on how that works out.

 

[Ravi]

The public school's mission is to educate students.

The private school's mission is to make money.

 

[chanel]

You may want to rethink that one ravi. There are millions of educated Catholic school kids doing great things today.

If a privatized school does not provide a quality service they should be dismissed. But I do agree that children are not widgets if that's what you meant.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Typical right wing answer to everything. PROFIT.

 

[tjvh]

Typical right wing answer to everything. PROFIT.

I don't know where you got that? I think the word you were looking for is "RESULTS".

 

[Wiseacre]

Competition is the answer IMHO. The idea that private education is for profit is to the good, if parents aren't satisfied with the education their kids are getting, guess what? They pull their kids out and go elsewhere, and the private school fails, as it should. I think there should be an "elsewhere", if there's no choice then there's no incentive to do a good job.

 

[Euro]

Competition is the answer IMHO. The idea that private education is for profit is to the good, if parents aren't satisfied with the education their kids are getting, guess what? They pull their kids out and go elsewhere, and the private school fails, as it should. I think there should be an "elsewhere", if there's no choice then there's no incentive to do a good job.

But will you get competition in a small town, no you want. In San Antonio maybe you’ll get competition, but in a rural areas you want.How are you going to organize transportation?

 

[Oddball]

For the record: I am a Republican, a public school teacher, and a union member. While I am the first to say that the system is broken, I do not believe private companies can do a better job working within the broken system.

Check this out:

For nearly a decade, the Philadelphia School District has been sending students with discipline problems who are at risk of dropping out of school to the for-profit Delaware Valley High School.

This academic year, the district is paying the firm $4.1 million to operate a disciplinary school on Kelly Drive in East Falls and an accelerated high school program in Southwest Philadelphia for dropouts to obtain diplomas.

Attorney David T. Shulick, Delaware Valley's chief executive officer, has long said that his company operates "the best and the lowest-cost" alternative schools in the city.

Federal authorities are now investigating whether political influence helped Delaware Valley obtain recent contracts, according to knowledgeable sources.

But some former teachers allege grades are changed and students promoted even if they skip class and fail to turn in assignments.

"Everybody graduates," one former staffer said. "Everybody gets a piece of paper, no matter what."

They also questioned the school's attendance records and said teachers were paid significantly less than is shown in contracts with the district.

Mixed reviews for Delaware Valley High School

It's a lengthy article, but an interesting read. It highlights many of the same issues and problems that public schools face with students who are basically "uneducable". It also shows that nepotism and political influence infiltrate all aspects of the system, both public and private.

Comments?

Alliance for Separation of School and State Home

 

[Ravi]

You may want to rethink that one ravi. There are millions of educated Catholic school kids doing great things today.

If a privatized school does not provide a quality service they should be dismissed. But I do agree that children are not widgets if that's what you meant.

Fair enough. But there also many private schools that are in it for the profit. And if and when a private school fails there often isn't anyone to pick up the slack and the students suffer for it.

 

[rdean]

The answer is obviously to simply quit sending kids to school and close down the schools. Then everyone can be a Republican.

 

[Wiseacre]

Competition is the answer IMHO. The idea that private education is for profit is to the good, if parents aren't satisfied with the education their kids are getting, guess what? They pull their kids out and go elsewhere, and the private school fails, as it should. I think there should be an "elsewhere", if there's no choice then there's no incentive to do a good job.

But will you get competition in a small town, no you want. In San Antonio maybe you’ll get competition, but in a rural areas you want.How are you going to organize transportation?

Depends on how rural and how small the town is. I suspect the small rural schools aren't really a problem, but even so there's no reason why you shouldn't have at least one alternative. I live in a small town, a suburb of SA about 15k or so population. They have a private school run by the local Baptist church. Some of my neighbors sent their kids there instead of the public schools, up to high school anyway.

I think it's like anything else, no competition means less effort to do a good job.

 

[Oddball]

You may want to rethink that one ravi. There are millions of educated Catholic school kids doing great things today.

If a privatized school does not provide a quality service they should be dismissed. But I do agree that children are not widgets if that's what you meant.

Fair enough. But there also many private schools that are in it for the profit. And if and when a private school fails there often isn't anyone to pick up the slack and the students suffer for it.

When was the last time you can remember a private enterprise operation complaining about having too many customers?

 

[Ariux]

For the record: I am a Republican, a public school teacher, and a union member. While I am the first to say that the system is broken, I do not believe private companies can do a better job working within the broken system.

For the record, you're a shithead. What's the point of saying you're a public school teacher and a union member if all you're going to do is oppose privatizing public education?

"Everybody graduates," one former staffer said. "Everybody gets a piece of paper, no matter what."

They also questioned the school's attendance records and said teachers were paid significantly less than is shown in contracts with the district.

The company that oversees the teachers pay is own apes and the city forced this private school to hire this company. So, blame your fucking government, not the private school, shithead.

As for "everybody graduates", these are mostly low-end Afros at this school. They are genetically unable to handle high school work. Either flunk the lot of them, or socially promote them. Yet, deep in the article it reports that only 68% of these animals graduate. As a public school graduate, you might not know that 68% is less than "everybody", shithead.

BTW, considering that Afros receive the most expensive public education in the country, in a futile effort to turn them into people... the article says the private schools gets $8,800 per student, which must be far less per student than the public schools get.

Finally, shithead, when we say privatize schools, when mean a competitive school market, not one school collecting the failing trouble makers, the Trayvons. It's competition that makes the free market work magic. There's no competition here.

 

[Euro]

Competition is the answer IMHO. The idea that private education is for profit is to the good, if parents aren't satisfied with the education their kids are getting, guess what? They pull their kids out and go elsewhere, and the private school fails, as it should. I think there should be an "elsewhere", if there's no choice then there's no incentive to do a good job.

But will you get competition in a small town, no you want. In San Antonio maybe you’ll get competition, but in a rural areas you want.How are you going to organize transportation?

Depends on how rural and how small the town is. I suspect the small rural schools aren't really a problem, but even so there's no reason why you shouldn't have at least one alternative. I live in a small town, a suburb of SA about 15k or so population. They have a private school run by the local Baptist church. Some of my neighbors sent their kids there instead of the public schools, up to high school anyway.

I think it's like anything else, no competition means less effort to do a good job.

But San Antonio is a big city so their you will get real competition and alternatives. San Antonio isn’t rural and a small town.

But on the countryside, 2 hrs drive or more from a city, how are you going to get competition there. I think private schools can work well in huge cities like SA, but not all over the country.

 

[Wiseacre]

But will you get competition in a small town, no you want. In San Antonio maybe you’ll get competition, but in a rural areas you want.How are you going to organize transportation?

Depends on how rural and how small the town is. I suspect the small rural schools aren't really a problem, but even so there's no reason why you shouldn't have at least one alternative. I live in a small town, a suburb of SA about 15k or so population. They have a private school run by the local Baptist church. Some of my neighbors sent their kids there instead of the public schools, up to high school anyway.

I think it's like anything else, no competition means less effort to do a good job.

But San Antonio is a big city so their you will get real competition and alternatives. San Antonio isn’t rural and a small town.

But on the countryside, 2 hrs drive or more from a city, how are you going to get competition there. I think private schools can work well in huge cities like SA, but not all over the country.

I get your point, having more than 1 school serving a large area with a small student population may not be economically viable. But otherwise, even in small towns a private or parochial school could be an alternative. Where it is viable, a choice could be there IMHO.

 

[chanel]

The article is not about charter schools. It is about "outsourcing" responsibilities within the public school system.

Gov. Christie gave all public sector leaders a mission. He called it the "yellow page test". If a service can be found in the yellow pages, they should be used instead of public servants. Our district found an employment agency that provides paraprofessionals and substitute teachers. There is only one company in the state that does this. That isn't competition, folks. If we find that hiring part time strangers to work with our students isn't cost effective (or safe) , what then?

The jury is out on whether private companies can provide a better service to the schools at a lower price. Some do; some don't. And in the "Soprano State", "pay to play" is the only way to get a government contract. Corruption is rampant.

Phila. can't handle some of the tough students that are guaranteed an education. And if someone else comes in and says, "We'll take them", they'd be foolish not to try it out. But as the article suggests, the kids may not be learning there either.

 

[Wiseacre]

The article is not about charter schools. It is about "outsourcing" responsibilities within the public school system.

Gov. Christie gave all public sector leaders a mission. He called it the "yellow page test". If a service can be found in the yellow pages, they should be used instead of public servants. Our district found an employment agency that provides paraprofessionals and substitute teachers. There is only one company in the state that does this. That isn't competition, folks. If we find that hiring part time strangers to work with our students isn't cost effective (or safe) , what then?

Then don't do it. What you're talking about is one public school where you bring in contractors to augment or substitute for the union teachers. Not a bad idea to try, but that isn't the competition I had in mind. I'm talking about private or parochial schools that parents can choose to send their kids to. That's competition, you have a choice.

The jury is out on whether private companies can provide a better service to the schools at a lower price. Some do; some don't. And in the "Soprano State", "pay to play" is the only way to get a government contract. Corruption is rampant.

Phila. can't handle some of the tough students that are guaranteed an education. And if someone else comes in and says, "We'll take them", they'd be foolish not to try it out. But as the article suggests, the kids may not be learning there either.

Not every private school is going to be much better than the public ones. But IMHO the public ones will get better if they might lose students. Those private schools have an incentive to outperform the public, I have a lot of faith in the profit motive. And if our kids endup with a better education, then I don't care if the private schools make gobs of money.

 

[chanel]

No argument here. My children went to Catholic school. I believe parents should have a choice but let's not pretend they play by the same rules.

But that is not what this thread is about. Public education is not going away. But using private businesses to augment or even run schools is a very tricky experiment.

When you hire a contractor do you choose the cheapest guy or the best? Governments must go with low bid. Quality is not a factor.