Public servants should be paid more

[Toro]

Professionals in the public services are generally underpaid. No doubt about that.

Bull, There are people begging for those cushy jobs with golden retirements.

Are you kidding?

Lawyers, accountants, engineers, IT professionals, etc generally get paid less, sometimes far less, than in the private sector. Investment professionals get paid maybe a third of what they get paid in the private sector.

 

[DaGoose]

Professionals in the public services are generally underpaid. No doubt about that.

Bull, There are people begging for those cushy jobs with golden retirements.

Oh yeah....there are lots of people begging for my "Master Degree" wife's teacher pension of $28,000 a year and no SS. That's why teachers are predicted to be in such short supply.

.

 

[thereisnospoon]

No, Republicans hate other people making money. I mean they need a pay raise because they are so poor at 174K a year but teachers are very rich at 51K a year. See I am a master of Republican logic. I could be a republican candidate. Lets see.

In NYC, 35% of the population is on welfare.

There are 360,000 public employees in the city of NY, or 1 in 40 of the population.

5 of the highest-real estate taxed counties in the US are in NYS.

1% of NYC's population pays over 50% of its taxes.

NYPD can retire after 20 years on the job - at any age.

In 2001, NYC spent $1.5 billion on pensions - it now spends over $10 billion, a number that will grow to more than half the budget in a few years.

NYS lost more people than other state in the US since 2000.

There are middle school teachers in NYS earning over $150K per year.

Over the last 10 years, upstate NY has endured a reduced children population - yet there were more than 5,000 additional teachers hired there over this same time period.

Are you still here wasting our time with your BS, or do you plan on addressing the facts, like how public employee unions are a total fucking cancer on our society?

I see you have never lived in NYC.

But I don't see a problem with a teacher earning 150K meaning they are pretty good at their job considering the average pay is 60K a year in a very expensive city. But they are making bank for sure.

But I don't understand your rant for the "facts" considering I just gave your misleading "fact" the truth.

So try again.

Let us not forget that public employees wages are not the whole story. One must figure the cost of their benefits and retirement. it is safe to say that a third could be added to the base salary of public workers to cover these costs.
$150,000 per year is an ABSURD amount of money for a public employee.
That average is based on ALL teachers and teachers aides of which all belong to the various teacher's unions.
Also, let us not forget that other public workers log lots of overtime which the statisticians hired by the unions conveniently leave out of the published numbers.
My friend's brother in law , a retired police officer in NJ not only worked many extra shifts, also worked private security for ten hours per week at $75 per hour...That's an extra $37,500 per year on top of his six figure salary PLUS overtime PLUS benefits...
Now, to be fair ,there are states where public workers do not earn nearly as must, but they do have great benefits. benefits only dreampt of by those of us in the private sector.
You'll get nowhere with this thread simply because the general public has no more patience for unionized public employees who are crying FOUL.....
Yes ,you can go on about how pitiful public employment is, but you'll be talking to air.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Professionals in the public services are generally underpaid. No doubt about that.

Bull, There are people begging for those cushy jobs with golden retirements.

Oh yeah....there are lots of people begging for my "Master Degree" wife's teacher pension of $28,000 a year and no SS. That's why teachers are predicted to be in such short supply.

.

care to elaborate.....Where is this you say teachers get that amount in annual pension...Social Security? Non -sequitur. That is a broken program which the federal government killed long ago.
There is no such thing as "underpaid". If there is a person who thinks their salary is inadequate, they are free to ; demand more compensation citing their value to the employer or they can choose to acquire other employment that will satisfy their financial and career needs.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Ya...we all know that costs never rise for private companies. Their costs of doing business such as fuel, insurance, health care never go up. And we all know that their employees NEVER get any wage increases.

.

hey! fucktard! Pay attention. We're talking about taxpayers here and what we can afford.. What fucking part of bankrupt is it that you don't understand???? Moron.

Hmm...fucktard? LOL

My point was (and you missed which is not surprising) that even with private companies (doing business for state and local government) costs increase. And those increased costs WILL be passed onto the taxpayers (you and me).

So the argument for privatization is hollow. It's not the saving grace you make it out to be.

.

So what is it you want?
Shall the status quo continue with ever rising public worker costs and escalating tax rates thrown upon taxpayers?
Ansd please spare me with the bullshit about compromise.
The taxpayers have been compromising ever since the civil service system was invented.
Compromising with public worker unions has shown a win win for the unions in perpetuity.
Suddenly when the taxpayers interests have been put into play the union people are wailing like 2 year olds about how rotten their jobs are and their carping about meager pay and benefits.
Please.....Look, it's OVER...There is no more money.
If you are so inclined to see public workers continue to be compensated in the current fashion, by all means write a check.

 

[DaGoose]

hey! fucktard! Pay attention. We're talking about taxpayers here and what we can afford.. What fucking part of bankrupt is it that you don't understand???? Moron.

Hmm...fucktard? LOL

My point was (and you missed which is not surprising) that even with private companies (doing business for state and local government) costs increase. And those increased costs WILL be passed onto the taxpayers (you and me).

So the argument for privatization is hollow. It's not the saving grace you make it out to be.

.

So what is it you want?
Shall the status quo continue with ever rising public worker costs and escalating tax rates thrown upon taxpayers?
Ansd please spare me with the bullshit about compromise.
The taxpayers have been compromising ever since the civil service system was invented.
Compromising with public worker unions has shown a win win for the unions in perpetuity.
Suddenly when the taxpayers interests have been put into play the union people are wailing like 2 year olds about how rotten their jobs are and their carping about meager pay and benefits.
Please.....Look, it's OVER...There is no more money.
If you are so inclined to see public workers continue to be compensated in the current fashion, by all means write a check.

There is no more money? Then what in the hell are you going to pay the replacements with? Or are you going to start paving your own roads? It's easy to say "there is no more money" and we should just fire EVERYBODY but you and I both know that's bullshit.

Listen, you want clean streets? Criminals arrested? Criminals jailed? House fires put out? Working sewer systems? Garbage collected? Landfills to take them to? Your stupid children taught? Snow plowed?

Guess what? All that shit costs money. And the fact that you don't want to pay for it is too fucking bad. YOU hired them so pay them.

.

 

[DaGoose]

Bull, There are people begging for those cushy jobs with golden retirements.

Oh yeah....there are lots of people begging for my "Master Degree" wife's teacher pension of $28,000 a year and no SS. That's why teachers are predicted to be in such short supply.

.

care to elaborate.....Where is this you say teachers get that amount in annual pension...Social Security? Non -sequitur. That is a broken program which the federal government killed long ago.
There is no such thing as "underpaid". If there is a person who thinks their salary is inadequate, they are free to ; demand more compensation citing their value to the employer or they can choose to acquire other employment that will satisfy their financial and career needs.

The average wage for teachers in your state can be found HERE.

Teacher Salaries By State | Average Salaries For Teachers | Beginning Salaries For Teachers | Teacher Raises | TeacherPortal.com

The average teacher pension is 80% of the salary. YOU do the math.

And where in the hell will a 60 year old teacher, who IS underpaid going to "acquire other employment that will satisfy their financial and career needs"?

.

 

[DaGoose]

In NYC, 35% of the population is on welfare.

There are 360,000 public employees in the city of NY, or 1 in 40 of the population.

5 of the highest-real estate taxed counties in the US are in NYS.

1% of NYC's population pays over 50% of its taxes.

NYPD can retire after 20 years on the job - at any age.

In 2001, NYC spent $1.5 billion on pensions - it now spends over $10 billion, a number that will grow to more than half the budget in a few years.

NYS lost more people than other state in the US since 2000.

There are middle school teachers in NYS earning over $150K per year.

Over the last 10 years, upstate NY has endured a reduced children population - yet there were more than 5,000 additional teachers hired there over this same time period.

Are you still here wasting our time with your BS, or do you plan on addressing the facts, like how public employee unions are a total fucking cancer on our society?

I see you have never lived in NYC.

But I don't see a problem with a teacher earning 150K meaning they are pretty good at their job considering the average pay is 60K a year in a very expensive city. But they are making bank for sure.

But I don't understand your rant for the "facts" considering I just gave your misleading "fact" the truth.

So try again.

Let us not forget that public employees wages are not the whole story. One must figure the cost of their benefits and retirement. it is safe to say that a third could be added to the base salary of public workers to cover these costs.
$150,000 per year is an ABSURD amount of money for a public employee.
That average is based on ALL teachers and teachers aides of which all belong to the various teacher's unions.
Also, let us not forget that other public workers log lots of overtime which the statisticians hired by the unions conveniently leave out of the published numbers.
My friend's brother in law , a retired police officer in NJ not only worked many extra shifts, also worked private security for ten hours per week at $75 per hour...That's an extra $37,500 per year on top of his six figure salary PLUS overtime PLUS benefits...
Now, to be fair ,there are states where public workers do not earn nearly as must, but they do have great benefits. benefits only dreampt of by those of us in the private sector.
You'll get nowhere with this thread simply because the general public has no more patience for unionized public employees who are crying FOUL.....
Yes ,you can go on about how pitiful public employment is, but you'll be talking to air.

Where in Sam Hell did you come by those numbers? The average teacher in NY earns $57,300. They start at $37,300. The next thing you know you'll be saying they earn $500,000 per year.

And if "your friend's brother in law" is working that many extra shifts then it would be a savings to the taxpayers to hire more officers, right? That's just basic accounting.

.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Which may add to the cost depending on the company match and how much the company must pay for plan administration and investment. But even THAT cost would have to be passed onto the taxpayers.

.

You don't know much about a 401K do you?

Matches generally are a few percent and administration costs are typically less than a few thousand a year. Given that many people don't participate the cost of a 401K is negligible compared to the cost of guaranteeing a retiree 80% of his income plus health benefits which is pretty standard for public employees.

I have close to a half-million reasons why I know plenty about 401k's. And anyplace that does not provide at least a 50% match has a POS 401k program. Mine is 100% up to 6%.

.

So you get a 6% match. I have matches for my employees up to 8% and I match mine dollar for dollar up to the max. And it only costs me 2000 a year in management fees. Now ask me what's cheaper in the long run a few percent match or a defined benefit pension plan.

As I said it's nothing compared to the cost of guaranteeing someone 80% of their income plus health benefits in retirement.

 

[WillowTree]

Hmm...fucktard? LOL

My point was (and you missed which is not surprising) that even with private companies (doing business for state and local government) costs increase. And those increased costs WILL be passed onto the taxpayers (you and me).

So the argument for privatization is hollow. It's not the saving grace you make it out to be.

.

So what is it you want?
Shall the status quo continue with ever rising public worker costs and escalating tax rates thrown upon taxpayers?
Ansd please spare me with the bullshit about compromise.
The taxpayers have been compromising ever since the civil service system was invented.
Compromising with public worker unions has shown a win win for the unions in perpetuity.
Suddenly when the taxpayers interests have been put into play the union people are wailing like 2 year olds about how rotten their jobs are and their carping about meager pay and benefits.
Please.....Look, it's OVER...There is no more money.
If you are so inclined to see public workers continue to be compensated in the current fashion, by all means write a check.

There is no more money? Then what in the hell are you going to pay the replacements with? Or are you going to start paving your own roads? It's easy to say "there is no more money" and we should just fire EVERYBODY but you and I both know that's bullshit.

Listen, you want clean streets? Criminals arrested? Criminals jailed? House fires put out? Working sewer systems? Garbage collected? Landfills to take them to? Your stupid children taught? Snow plowed?

Guess what? All that shit costs money. And the fact that you don't want to pay for it is too fucking bad. YOU hired them so pay them..

We can fire them just as easy as we hired em. Seems that's what's a happening too and you can't stop whining about it? What? You gonna shit the money they demand????

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

If we weren't wasting all our money on cradle-to-grave nanny-state programs and stuffing government agencies with a gazillion upper level bureaucrats.. we might be able to pay them more.

 

[Skull Pilot]

R.I. pension obligation to rise by $50 million | Rhode Island news | projo.com | The Providence Journal

a pension system that, according to the state treasurer’s office, would have allowed a typical teacher to retire with a $41,892 pension after a 30-year career, and get $1.021 million in cumulative benefits by age 75, $1.753 million by age 85.

Do we really need state workers to be guaranteed millions in benefits in retirement? These people barely put 10% of their own money into their retirement. My wife and I put 20% in and no one is guaranteeing our benefits. It's time these hacks lived like the rest of us.

 

[DaGoose]

So what is it you want?
Shall the status quo continue with ever rising public worker costs and escalating tax rates thrown upon taxpayers?
Ansd please spare me with the bullshit about compromise.
The taxpayers have been compromising ever since the civil service system was invented.
Compromising with public worker unions has shown a win win for the unions in perpetuity.
Suddenly when the taxpayers interests have been put into play the union people are wailing like 2 year olds about how rotten their jobs are and their carping about meager pay and benefits.
Please.....Look, it's OVER...There is no more money.
If you are so inclined to see public workers continue to be compensated in the current fashion, by all means write a check.

There is no more money? Then what in the hell are you going to pay the replacements with? Or are you going to start paving your own roads? It's easy to say "there is no more money" and we should just fire EVERYBODY but you and I both know that's bullshit.

Listen, you want clean streets? Criminals arrested? Criminals jailed? House fires put out? Working sewer systems? Garbage collected? Landfills to take them to? Your stupid children taught? Snow plowed?

Guess what? All that shit costs money. And the fact that you don't want to pay for it is too fucking bad. YOU hired them so pay them..

We can fire them just as easy as we hired em. Seems that's what's a happening too and you can't stop whining about it? What? You gonna shit the money they demand????

And how much will be different if private contractors are hired? THEY have to be paid wages and benefits as well. And the small difference wouldn't make a dent in what we have to pay.

.

 

[DaGoose]

R.I. pension obligation to rise by $50 million | Rhode Island news | projo.com | The Providence Journal

a pension system that, according to the state treasurer’s office, would have allowed a typical teacher to retire with a $41,892 pension after a 30-year career, and get $1.021 million in cumulative benefits by age 75, $1.753 million by age 85.

Do we really need state workers to be guaranteed millions in benefits in retirement? These people barely put 10% of their own money into their retirement. My wife and I put 20% in and no one is guaranteeing our benefits. It's time these hacks lived like the rest of us.

Then go get one of those jobs if you think they're so great and quit crying because someone is more successful or has it better than you.

.

 

[Cecilie1200]

PUBLIC SERVANTS SHOULD BE PAID MORE
1 Tim; 5;18.….The laborer is worthy of his wages


They do an important job for Americans and deserve to be paid more, have better healthcare and retirement than hamburger flippers. They make more money and pay more taxes. Paid into unemployment insurance and usually never collect. We can do without hamburgers but not without teachers, firemen, policemen, IRS, FDA, Social Service, CDC, Military, homeland security, border patrol agents, DMV, Department of Tansportation, Department of Agriculture, etc. And we don’t want to see the turnover in teachers, firemen and policemen as we do in Walmart. Chasing criminals, teaching our children and putting out fires in our homes and forest are indispensable jobs and worker should be compensated accordingly. But the radical right want to cut these jobs thus losing more tax revenue and spending more by them collecting unemployment and food stamps.

Those who are paid more, pay more in taxes unless you are a Trump, GE, etc.

You cannot balance the budget and pay down the deficit by cutting jobs. You only create a bigger deficit. You cannot cut enough government spending to balance the budget and pay down the deficit and pay for two war with no end. Taxes will have to be raised across board, Income and sales.

　

“American, Roll up your sleeves and pitch in.

This may hurt a little but this too will pass”

What a load of horse hockey.

First of all, regarding your little Bible quote, look up the word "context". It is NOT referring to civil servants. It refers to elders of the church, such as ministers. Sheesh.

Furthermore, no one has ever suggested paying public employees like hamburger flippers, and they sure as shit aren't being paid like hamburger flippers NOW, so your dripping sympathy for the plight of the poor, oppressed, downtrodden civil servant is just a tad excessive.

You can't balance the budget and decrease the deficit by cutting private sector jobs. You can and should do both by cutting public sector jobs, because there isn't a government department on the planet Earth that doesn't have dead weight and waste in it. Just because you can't achieve a balanced budget JUST by cutting unnecessary government employees doesn't mean that it isn't a good idea.

Finally, you can't balance the budget by cutting government spending ONLY if you're frantically hugging every sacred cow program you can find. And if you're doing that, you have a hard row to hoe to convince people that they need to pay more taxes.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Been there, done that.



Privatization Myths Debunked | In the Public Interest

.

Do your few examples factor in the cost of pensions and health care retirement benefits?

We pay for public employees long after they stop working.

And you are saying that private companies DON'T have employee pensions and health care benefits that are figured into the cost of their bids?

.

That's the company's stockholders' decision to make. In the case of the government, WE are the stockholders, and we say we don't want to pay our employees as lavishly as we currently are.

If they don't like it, they have the same option that private sector workers do: leave and find another job. I sincerely doubt it'll be hard to find other people who WILL do the job for what we, the stockholders (taxpayers), are willing to pay.

 

[Toro]

Do your few examples factor in the cost of pensions and health care retirement benefits?

We pay for public employees long after they stop working.

And you are saying that private companies DON'T have employee pensions and health care benefits that are figured into the cost of their bids?

.

That's the company's stockholders' decision to make. In the case of the government, WE are the stockholders, and we say we don't want to pay our employees as lavishly as we currently are.

If they don't like it, they have the same option that private sector workers do: leave and find another job. I sincerely doubt it'll be hard to find other people who WILL do the job for what we, the stockholders (taxpayers), are willing to pay.

Company stockholders don't decide how much to pay employees, at least publicly traded company stockholders don't. Stockholders of publicly traded companies don't even get a say on how to pay executives let alone rank and file employees.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Hmm...fucktard? LOL

My point was (and you missed which is not surprising) that even with private companies (doing business for state and local government) costs increase. And those increased costs WILL be passed onto the taxpayers (you and me).

So the argument for privatization is hollow. It's not the saving grace you make it out to be.

.

So what is it you want?
Shall the status quo continue with ever rising public worker costs and escalating tax rates thrown upon taxpayers?
Ansd please spare me with the bullshit about compromise.
The taxpayers have been compromising ever since the civil service system was invented.
Compromising with public worker unions has shown a win win for the unions in perpetuity.
Suddenly when the taxpayers interests have been put into play the union people are wailing like 2 year olds about how rotten their jobs are and their carping about meager pay and benefits.
Please.....Look, it's OVER...There is no more money.
If you are so inclined to see public workers continue to be compensated in the current fashion, by all means write a check.

There is no more money? Then what in the hell are you going to pay the replacements with? Or are you going to start paving your own roads? It's easy to say "there is no more money" and we should just fire EVERYBODY but you and I both know that's bullshit.

Listen, you want clean streets? Criminals arrested? Criminals jailed? House fires put out? Working sewer systems? Garbage collected? Landfills to take them to? Your stupid children taught? Snow plowed?

Guess what? All that shit costs money. And the fact that you don't want to pay for it is too fucking bad. YOU hired them so pay them.

.

No one implied services were no needed. What is not necessary are unions and absurd benefits. In fact the vast majority of public workers function without union representation.
The issue here is wages and benefits must be reined in because the taxpayers are tapped out. That is what I refer to when I state "there is no more money".
In fact many communities across the nation function without full service government.
Here in my town of some 25,000 people we have such a government.
We have volunteer FD. Instead of employing our own police dept we contract with the county Sheriff's dept for deputies to patrol our town exclusively. This saves us about six million dollars per year. Response time is a max of ten minutes on all shifts. We also have private trash collection. Roads are maintained by the County and the State. Our town has few full time employees. This is a very nice place to live with low crime. The lesson here is no one need to hire mega amounts of tax burdening employees just to create more government bureaucracy and taxpayer expense. Least of all there is no need for burdensome and expensive unions. BTW our town tax rate is a whopping 14 cents per hundred of assessed value.....Compare this to the heavily unionized areas where municipal tax rates can exceed 3 or 4 dollars per hundred. That is absurd.
This issue to the union cheerleaders is about union busting. Ok with me I can't stand unions. However the real issue here is protecting the interests of the taxpayers FIRST.
Oh, if you are a unionized government employee, you are disqualified from having an opinion on this matter because you have an agenda to protect what you view as an entitlement,

 

[Skull Pilot]

R.I. pension obligation to rise by $50 million | Rhode Island news | projo.com | The Providence Journal

a pension system that, according to the state treasurer’s office, would have allowed a typical teacher to retire with a $41,892 pension after a 30-year career, and get $1.021 million in cumulative benefits by age 75, $1.753 million by age 85.

Do we really need state workers to be guaranteed millions in benefits in retirement? These people barely put 10% of their own money into their retirement. My wife and I put 20% in and no one is guaranteeing our benefits. It's time these hacks lived like the rest of us.

Then go get one of those jobs if you think they're so great and quit crying because someone is more successful or has it better than you.

.

Hey bud I have my own business employ 10 people and make way more than a government hack. My wife and I max out our 401Ks and have investments on top of that but it's our money and quite frankly a government hack deserves none of it.

Just because people work for the government doesn't mean that we have to foot the bill for an outrageous pension plan where the hacks hardly put any of their own money into the pot. Change the pensions to 401Ks and let the hacks contribute more to their own retirement.

 

[DaGoose]

So what is it you want?
Shall the status quo continue with ever rising public worker costs and escalating tax rates thrown upon taxpayers?
Ansd please spare me with the bullshit about compromise.
The taxpayers have been compromising ever since the civil service system was invented.
Compromising with public worker unions has shown a win win for the unions in perpetuity.
Suddenly when the taxpayers interests have been put into play the union people are wailing like 2 year olds about how rotten their jobs are and their carping about meager pay and benefits.
Please.....Look, it's OVER...There is no more money.
If you are so inclined to see public workers continue to be compensated in the current fashion, by all means write a check.

There is no more money? Then what in the hell are you going to pay the replacements with? Or are you going to start paving your own roads? It's easy to say "there is no more money" and we should just fire EVERYBODY but you and I both know that's bullshit.

Listen, you want clean streets? Criminals arrested? Criminals jailed? House fires put out? Working sewer systems? Garbage collected? Landfills to take them to? Your stupid children taught? Snow plowed?

Guess what? All that shit costs money. And the fact that you don't want to pay for it is too fucking bad. YOU hired them so pay them.

.

No one implied services were no needed. What is not necessary are unions and absurd benefits. In fact the vast majority of public workers function without union representation.
The issue here is wages and benefits must be reined in because the taxpayers are tapped out. That is what I refer to when I state "there is no more money".
In fact many communities across the nation function without full service government.
Here in my town of some 25,000 people we have such a government.
We have volunteer FD. Instead of employing our own police dept we contract with the county Sheriff's dept for deputies to patrol our town exclusively. This saves us about six million dollars per year. Response time is a max of ten minutes on all shifts. We also have private trash collection. Roads are maintained by the County and the State. Our town has few full time employees. This is a very nice place to live with low crime. The lesson here is no one need to hire mega amounts of tax burdening employees just to create more government bureaucracy and taxpayer expense. Least of all there is no need for burdensome and expensive unions. BTW our town tax rate is a whopping 14 cents per hundred of assessed value.....Compare this to the heavily unionized areas where municipal tax rates can exceed 3 or 4 dollars per hundred. That is absurd.
This issue to the union cheerleaders is about union busting. Ok with me I can't stand unions. However the real issue here is protecting the interests of the taxpayers FIRST.
Oh, if you are a unionized government employee, you are disqualified from having an opinion on this matter because you have an agenda to protect what you view as an entitlement,

I used to be an elected county official and know exactly what you're talking about when you talk about contracting county services. But of course you realize that you're still paying the county for the officer's time which probably neccessitates the hiring of more county officers. And you pay for that too in the taxes you pay to the county (usually through property taxes).

Now for towns our size (I'm served by a volunteer FD (I used to be one) and private garbage collection too) we have that option. But for large cities that require full time fire and police protection, their own street dept., a large sewage treatment plant, etc. they simply can't operate the way we do. Yes, it costs more which is why taxes are higher in a city.

And you're absolutely right about all of this being about union busting. And that's ALL this is about, plain and simple.

.