Protesters topple Confederate monument on UNC campus

[Hiryuu]

We have plenty of Union and Confederate graves here in the South to remind us of the Civil War. Most towns, most fields, most houses (that were constructed at the time, and that weren't burned down because they were used as headquarters or battlefield hospitals) will be here forever to remind us. We have blood in the dirt here in the South, that will forever stand as a testament to what happened and why. We aren't trying to forget, because that would be impossible.

It shouldn't be forgotten

I really don't know how you could forget the Civil War here. It's where the war was fought. It's where the dead still rest. If anyone wants to forget the Civil War and the cost that was paid, they are going to have to bring a backhoe and plow up a shitload of land to get rid of the reminders.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

We have plenty of Union and Confederate graves here in the South to remind us of the Civil War. Most towns, most fields, most houses (that were constructed at the time, and that weren't burned down because they were used as headquarters or battlefield hospitals) will be here forever to remind us. We have blood in the dirt here in the South, that will forever stand as a testament to what happened and why. We aren't trying to forget, because that would be impossible.

It shouldn't be forgotten

I really don't know how you could forget the Civil War here. It's where the war was fought. It's where the dead still rest. If anyone wants to forget the Civil War and the cost that was paid, they are going to have to bring a backhoe and plow up a shitload of land to get rid of the reminders.

I'm a huge Civil War buff. It's comical watching Poindexter flail away thinking he's some expert

 

[Hiryuu]

We have plenty of Union and Confederate graves here in the South to remind us of the Civil War. Most towns, most fields, most houses (that were constructed at the time, and that weren't burned down because they were used as headquarters or battlefield hospitals) will be here forever to remind us. We have blood in the dirt here in the South, that will forever stand as a testament to what happened and why. We aren't trying to forget, because that would be impossible.

It shouldn't be forgotten

I really don't know how you could forget the Civil War here. It's where the war was fought. It's where the dead still rest. If anyone wants to forget the Civil War and the cost that was paid, they are going to have to bring a backhoe and plow up a shitload of land to get rid of the reminders.

I'm a huge Civil War buff. It's comical watching Poindexter flail away thinking he's some expert

Fruitcakes like Biff propagate nothing much more than hatred, and here in the South I can say we know what that will earn you.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

We have plenty of Union and Confederate graves here in the South to remind us of the Civil War. Most towns, most fields, most houses (that were constructed at the time, and that weren't burned down because they were used as headquarters or battlefield hospitals) will be here forever to remind us. We have blood in the dirt here in the South, that will forever stand as a testament to what happened and why. We aren't trying to forget, because that would be impossible.

It shouldn't be forgotten

I really don't know how you could forget the Civil War here. It's where the war was fought. It's where the dead still rest. If anyone wants to forget the Civil War and the cost that was paid, they are going to have to bring a backhoe and plow up a shitload of land to get rid of the reminders.

The Guttenberg Project has some great reads on the Civil War. The soldier's diaries are very telling about the mindset. Free to download

 

[Biff_Poindexter]

He showed me a monument honoring a battle -- I asked you to show me monuments honoring generals from the opposing side -- you can't because they don't exist.

All this pretzel twisting to defend monuments that were erected in the age of Jim Crow for the purpose of being a symbol of defiance against the emancipation of oppressed people is and was ALWAYS what these monuments were about


And like I said many times -- no one is stopping you from building your own theme parks and filling it up with whatever confederate monuments you want to shove in there --- hell, if you have an affinity for Nazi generals, have at it -- it just want be on tax payer money

There is a difference between a war between nations and a civil war. Part of the peace was to allow the South to mourn their dead and their dead cause as they saw fit, as long as they admitted defeat and rejoined the Union.

Now for political expediency that compact is being broken over snowflake butt hurt.

Why do you pathetic lost cause revisionists ignore Robert E. Lee's wishes so much?

So you quote lee, but want to tear down his Statues?

Wow, what a weasel you are.

That's his opinion. and according to snopes it was about memorials for BOTH sides. So he would have been against the Grand Army Plaza Soldiers arch as well.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/robert-e-lee-confederate-monuments/

I see you dodged the point

What the winning side does about their monuments, Robert E Lee didn't have much influence on -- since he lost

Something about to the victor goes the spoils or something..

His point was still he thought neither side should memorialize the war. And the whole point of the peace afterwards was that in the end everyone was an American again.

His side was gone at that point in a legal sense anyway.

See, that is the problem -- "Everyone was an American again"

No, everyone were not considered American to begin with, they were not even considered men -- remember?

So there was this attempt to try to Re-construct the south and in the process finally make everyone American -- plenty of DEMOCRATS -- (since you folks like to pretend this distinction means something) didn't want everyone to be Americans - many of them in defiance to losing their white supremacist institutions -- started erecting monuments as a way to keep their "Negroes" in line..

In fact, the whole monument thing was so big that states that were not even confederate put up monuments. Now one may ask wh would a city in a state that sat out the Civil War erect a monument to Confederate generals in 1948??

Aside from that, yea -- move all the confederate statues to museums or if you want to have a special park commissioned for confederate statues, have at it.

 

[martybegan]

There is a difference between a war between nations and a civil war. Part of the peace was to allow the South to mourn their dead and their dead cause as they saw fit, as long as they admitted defeat and rejoined the Union.

Now for political expediency that compact is being broken over snowflake butt hurt.

Why do you pathetic lost cause revisionists ignore Robert E. Lee's wishes so much?

So you quote lee, but want to tear down his Statues?

Wow, what a weasel you are.

That's his opinion. and according to snopes it was about memorials for BOTH sides. So he would have been against the Grand Army Plaza Soldiers arch as well.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/robert-e-lee-confederate-monuments/

I see you dodged the point

What the winning side does about their monuments, Robert E Lee didn't have much influence on -- since he lost

Something about to the victor goes the spoils or something..

His point was still he thought neither side should memorialize the war. And the whole point of the peace afterwards was that in the end everyone was an American again.

His side was gone at that point in a legal sense anyway.

See, that is the problem -- "Everyone was an American again"

No, everyone were not considered American to begin with, they were not even considered men -- remember?

So there was this attempt to try to Re-construct the south and in the process finally make everyone American -- plenty of DEMOCRATS -- (since you folks like to pretend this distinction means something) didn't want everyone to be Americans - many of them in defiance to losing their white supremacist institutions -- started erecting monuments as a way to keep their "Negroes" in line..

In fact, the whole monument thing was so big that states that were not even confederate put up monuments. Now one may ask wh would a city in a state that sat out the Civil War erect a monument to Confederate generals in 1948??

Aside from that, yea -- move all the confederate statues to museums or if you want to have a special park commissioned for confederate statues, have at it.

No, they used laws to do that. The current butt hurt over monuments has nothing to do with the issues of the past.

It's a bunch of mewling snowflakes like you who get the vapors over inanimate objects that have been around for decades or even a century.

It's as someone said before, you don't have the balls to go after your political enemies on real terms, so you go after things that can't fight back, and things you can use to imply your opponents racism.

 

[Biff_Poindexter]

Also, why do you pathetic lost cause revisionists hate books, libraries and museums so much??

Its almost like if you guys didn't have statues up all across the south, you would forget the Civil War happened -- but to be fair, even with these statues, you guys already pretend to forget why the Civil War happened..

#sad

We have plenty of Union and Confederate graves here in the South to remind us of the Civil War. Most towns, most fields, most houses (that were constructed at the time, and that weren't burned down because they were used as headquarters or battlefield hospitals) will be here forever to remind us. We have blood in the dirt here in the South, that will forever stand as a testament to what happened and why. We aren't trying to forget, because that would be impossible.

It shouldn't be forgotten

It won't -- even tho the reason why the war was fought is conveniently forgotten or revised -- but that's different.

Just leave public and private property alone.

How's that?

To all of you civil war buffs

Can you name how many Ordinance of Successions written by confederate states explicitly stated their reason for succeeding was due to their desire to preserve the institution of slavery?

Was it South Carolina? Louisiana? Mississippi? how many?

By the way, Civil War Buffs.....which side lost?

 

[Biff_Poindexter]

Why do you pathetic lost cause revisionists ignore Robert E. Lee's wishes so much?

So you quote lee, but want to tear down his Statues?

Wow, what a weasel you are.

That's his opinion. and according to snopes it was about memorials for BOTH sides. So he would have been against the Grand Army Plaza Soldiers arch as well.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/robert-e-lee-confederate-monuments/

I see you dodged the point

What the winning side does about their monuments, Robert E Lee didn't have much influence on -- since he lost

Something about to the victor goes the spoils or something..

His point was still he thought neither side should memorialize the war. And the whole point of the peace afterwards was that in the end everyone was an American again.

His side was gone at that point in a legal sense anyway.

See, that is the problem -- "Everyone was an American again"

No, everyone were not considered American to begin with, they were not even considered men -- remember?

So there was this attempt to try to Re-construct the south and in the process finally make everyone American -- plenty of DEMOCRATS -- (since you folks like to pretend this distinction means something) didn't want everyone to be Americans - many of them in defiance to losing their white supremacist institutions -- started erecting monuments as a way to keep their "Negroes" in line..

In fact, the whole monument thing was so big that states that were not even confederate put up monuments. Now one may ask wh would a city in a state that sat out the Civil War erect a monument to Confederate generals in 1948??

Aside from that, yea -- move all the confederate statues to museums or if you want to have a special park commissioned for confederate statues, have at it.

No, they used laws to do that. The current butt hurt over monuments has nothing to do with the issues of the past.

It's a bunch of mewling snowflakes like you who get the vapors over inanimate objects that have been around for decades or even a century.

It's as someone said before, you don't have the balls to go after your political enemies on real terms, so you go after things that can't fight back, and things you can use to imply your opponents racism.

why would a city in a state that sat out the Civil War erect a monument to Confederate generals in 1948??

You plan on answering this question today or never?

 

[Correll]

When are they going to erect monuments to honor the men on the losing side of the Revolutionary War....they were once our brothers, our countrymen.....when I say!!!!

About that....

Moores Creek Loyalist Monument | NCpedia

HERE FELL
CAPTAIN MCLEOD, CAPTAIN CAMPBELL
AND
ABOUT FIFTY HIGHLAND SCOTS,
LOYALISTS; WHO, WITH SPLENDID
COURAGE, ASSUALTED WITH
CLAYMORES THE AMERICAN
INTRENCHMENTS. THEY WERE /
HEROES WHO DID THEIR /
DUTY AS THEY SAW IT AND /
ARE WORTHY OF THIS TRIBUTE /
FROM THE DESCENDANTS OF /
THE EQUALLY BRAVE MEN / WHOM THEY FOUGHT. /
PEACE TO THEIR / ASHES. /
ERECTED BY /
THE MOORE'S CREEK MONUMENTAL /
ASSOCIATION /
1909.

That is a very American monument.


Americans are not the type of people that need to denigrate or humiliate their enemies, indeed, are quite capable of respecting people, even former foes.

Black folks were not America's enemy, they denigrated and humiliated them....

and you still keep avoiding my question...can you point me to a government court-house, state college, public park -- where there is a statue of Cornwallis, or any opposing general from any war we fought?

No, you can't

Marty just did. And I would not be surprised if there are not more.


And that is with them going back across the sea after the war, instead of staying here and raising descendants who would want to commemorate them.

He showed me a monument honoring a battle -- I asked you to show me monuments honoring generals from the opposing side -- you can't because they don't exist.

All this pretzel twisting to defend monuments that were erected in the age of Jim Crow for the purpose of being a symbol of defiance against the emancipation of oppressed people is and was ALWAYS what these monuments were about


And like I said many times -- no one is stopping you from building your own theme parks and filling it up with whatever confederate monuments you want to shove in there --- hell, if you have an affinity for Nazi generals, have at it -- it just want be on tax payer money

Neither your contrived standards, nor your moving of the goal posts are a concern of mine.

Your self serving assumptions as to why these monuments were erected is no excuse for your bigotry.


Your position on this is pure regional bigotry and discrimination.

 

[martybegan]

We have plenty of Union and Confederate graves here in the South to remind us of the Civil War. Most towns, most fields, most houses (that were constructed at the time, and that weren't burned down because they were used as headquarters or battlefield hospitals) will be here forever to remind us. We have blood in the dirt here in the South, that will forever stand as a testament to what happened and why. We aren't trying to forget, because that would be impossible.

It shouldn't be forgotten

I really don't know how you could forget the Civil War here. It's where the war was fought. It's where the dead still rest. If anyone wants to forget the Civil War and the cost that was paid, they are going to have to bring a backhoe and plow up a shitload of land to get rid of the reminders.

I'm a huge Civil War buff. It's comical watching Poindexter flail away thinking he's some expert

Fruitcakes like Biff propagate nothing much more than hatred, and here in the South I can say we know what that will earn you.

To all of you civil war buffs

Can you name how many Ordinance of Successions written by confederate states explicitly stated their reason for succeeding was due to their desire to preserve the institution of slavery?

Was it South Carolina? Louisiana? Mississippi? how many?

Slavery was as someone said, the poison pill that made any reconciliation except through war impossible. Yes, there are revisionists that try to downplay it, but it was only one factor in the chain of events that lead to the Civil war. Industrialisation, trade tariffs, fear of a loss of power permanently, all of those were factors.

That, and the notion by the South that since the States had left one "union" of colonies before, leaving this union would be similar.

They didn't figure on the North demanding a say in the process.

 

[martybegan]

So you quote lee, but want to tear down his Statues?

Wow, what a weasel you are.

That's his opinion. and according to snopes it was about memorials for BOTH sides. So he would have been against the Grand Army Plaza Soldiers arch as well.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/robert-e-lee-confederate-monuments/

I see you dodged the point

What the winning side does about their monuments, Robert E Lee didn't have much influence on -- since he lost

Something about to the victor goes the spoils or something..

His point was still he thought neither side should memorialize the war. And the whole point of the peace afterwards was that in the end everyone was an American again.

His side was gone at that point in a legal sense anyway.

See, that is the problem -- "Everyone was an American again"

No, everyone were not considered American to begin with, they were not even considered men -- remember?

So there was this attempt to try to Re-construct the south and in the process finally make everyone American -- plenty of DEMOCRATS -- (since you folks like to pretend this distinction means something) didn't want everyone to be Americans - many of them in defiance to losing their white supremacist institutions -- started erecting monuments as a way to keep their "Negroes" in line..

In fact, the whole monument thing was so big that states that were not even confederate put up monuments. Now one may ask wh would a city in a state that sat out the Civil War erect a monument to Confederate generals in 1948??

Aside from that, yea -- move all the confederate statues to museums or if you want to have a special park commissioned for confederate statues, have at it.

No, they used laws to do that. The current butt hurt over monuments has nothing to do with the issues of the past.

It's a bunch of mewling snowflakes like you who get the vapors over inanimate objects that have been around for decades or even a century.

It's as someone said before, you don't have the balls to go after your political enemies on real terms, so you go after things that can't fight back, and things you can use to imply your opponents racism.

why would a city in a state that sat out the Civil War erect a monument to Confederate generals in 1948??

You plan on answering this question today or never?

You didn't link the Statue or the State it is in.

 

[Biff_Poindexter]

Just for the purpose of clarity -- the confederate side lost? correct?

In other words, the South lost, Get over it

Isn't that what you say about any criticism of Trump?

Are you responding to anyone in particular? Or are you just flailing about as you see your attempted points get smushed from multiple directions?

Did the South lose, yes or no?

If they did, what they also lost was their ability to dictate to all of the citizens whom they never wished to have an equal voice -- have a say on which monuments stand on their public property

You can move the statues and put them in your backyard if you like -- but the people have spoken

 

[martybegan]

So you quote lee, but want to tear down his Statues?

Wow, what a weasel you are.

That's his opinion. and according to snopes it was about memorials for BOTH sides. So he would have been against the Grand Army Plaza Soldiers arch as well.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/robert-e-lee-confederate-monuments/

I see you dodged the point

What the winning side does about their monuments, Robert E Lee didn't have much influence on -- since he lost

Something about to the victor goes the spoils or something..

His point was still he thought neither side should memorialize the war. And the whole point of the peace afterwards was that in the end everyone was an American again.

His side was gone at that point in a legal sense anyway.

See, that is the problem -- "Everyone was an American again"

No, everyone were not considered American to begin with, they were not even considered men -- remember?

So there was this attempt to try to Re-construct the south and in the process finally make everyone American -- plenty of DEMOCRATS -- (since you folks like to pretend this distinction means something) didn't want everyone to be Americans - many of them in defiance to losing their white supremacist institutions -- started erecting monuments as a way to keep their "Negroes" in line..

In fact, the whole monument thing was so big that states that were not even confederate put up monuments. Now one may ask wh would a city in a state that sat out the Civil War erect a monument to Confederate generals in 1948??

Aside from that, yea -- move all the confederate statues to museums or if you want to have a special park commissioned for confederate statues, have at it.

No, they used laws to do that. The current butt hurt over monuments has nothing to do with the issues of the past.

It's a bunch of mewling snowflakes like you who get the vapors over inanimate objects that have been around for decades or even a century.

It's as someone said before, you don't have the balls to go after your political enemies on real terms, so you go after things that can't fight back, and things you can use to imply your opponents racism.

why would a city in a state that sat out the Civil War erect a monument to Confederate generals in 1948??

You plan on answering this question today or never?

What State was it? and what's the memorial's name?

 

[Correll]

Which was also, as has been repeatedly pointed out to you, the Centennial of the Civil War.

Without a corresponding blip in Union memorials.

edit...Btw, would you be kind enough to link the multiple posts regarding the centennial? I missed them.

1. We don't know that there was no blip in Union memorials.

2. There are several reasons for the South to be more motivated to build more memorials, IF that is the case, which we don't know.

3. No, you are just being a lefty.

 

[Correll]

Marty just did. And I would not be surprised if there are not more.


And that is with them going back across the sea after the war, instead of staying here and raising descendants who would want to commemorate them.

He showed me a monument honoring a battle -- I asked you to show me monuments honoring generals from the opposing side -- you can't because they don't exist.

All this pretzel twisting to defend monuments that were erected in the age of Jim Crow for the purpose of being a symbol of defiance against the emancipation of oppressed people is and was ALWAYS what these monuments were about


And like I said many times -- no one is stopping you from building your own theme parks and filling it up with whatever confederate monuments you want to shove in there --- hell, if you have an affinity for Nazi generals, have at it -- it just want be on tax payer money

There is a difference between a war between nations and a civil war. Part of the peace was to allow the South to mourn their dead and their dead cause as they saw fit, as long as they admitted defeat and rejoined the Union.

Now for political expediency that compact is being broken over snowflake butt hurt.

Why do you pathetic lost cause revisionists ignore Robert E. Lee's wishes so much?

So you quote lee, but want to tear down his Statues?

Wow, what a weasel you are.

That's his opinion. and according to snopes it was about memorials for BOTH sides. So he would have been against the Grand Army Plaza Soldiers arch as well.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/robert-e-lee-confederate-monuments/

I see you dodged the point

What the winning side does about their monuments, Robert E Lee didn't have much influence on -- since he lost

Something about to the victor goes the spoils or something..

Which was not the way the US went about healing itself. Obviously.

 

[martybegan]

Just for the purpose of clarity -- the confederate side lost? correct?

In other words, the South lost, Get over it

Isn't that what you say about any criticism of Trump?

Are you responding to anyone in particular? Or are you just flailing about as you see your attempted points get smushed from multiple directions?

Did the South lose, yes or no?

If they did, what they also lost was their ability to dictate to all of the citizens whom they never wished to have an equal voice -- have a say on which monuments stand on their public property

You can move the statues and put them in your backyard if you like -- but the people have spoken

The most whiny and bitchy people have spoken. People like you.

Yes, the South lost the war, but that is not material to the discussion.

How about they stay where they are and you grow a pair of balls large enough to not be offended by a statue?

What a wimp you are.

 

[Hiryuu]

The Guttenberg Project has some great reads on the Civil War. The soldier's diaries are very telling about the mindset. Free to download

Thanks for the heads up, but the materials around here (diaries of soldiers Union and Confederate, and more) are easily accessible at the multitude of battle parks that litter the landscape. The ability to stand on the ground were the battles took place, and read the words of the soldiers (what they ate, their clothes, concerns towards the homes they left behind and the day approaching), well you just cannot match that any other way. You visit battle parks like Vicksburg, and the overwhelming recognition of the utter suffering that occurred along the 16 mile trail that leads the way, and the scores of dead that once laid on miles of the land within, we ain't forgetting shit.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

Also, why do you pathetic lost cause revisionists hate books, libraries and museums so much??

Its almost like if you guys didn't have statues up all across the south, you would forget the Civil War happened -- but to be fair, even with these statues, you guys already pretend to forget why the Civil War happened..

#sad

We have plenty of Union and Confederate graves here in the South to remind us of the Civil War. Most towns, most fields, most houses (that were constructed at the time, and that weren't burned down because they were used as headquarters or battlefield hospitals) will be here forever to remind us. We have blood in the dirt here in the South, that will forever stand as a testament to what happened and why. We aren't trying to forget, because that would be impossible.

It shouldn't be forgotten

It won't -- even tho the reason why the war was fought is conveniently forgotten or revised -- but that's different.

Just leave public and private property alone.

How's that?

To all of you civil war buffs

Can you name how many Ordinance of Successions written by confederate states explicitly stated their reason for succeeding was due to their desire to preserve the institution of slavery?

Was it South Carolina? Louisiana? Mississippi? how many?

By the way, Civil War Buffs.....which side lost?

The war would have turned out much different if the South had gained the aid and support of England and France, as they nearly did.

An inanimate object that has stood for decades suddenly gives you gas. Why is that? I'll help you Poindexter...the agenda

 

[Correll]

So you quote lee, but want to tear down his Statues?

Wow, what a weasel you are.

That's his opinion. and according to snopes it was about memorials for BOTH sides. So he would have been against the Grand Army Plaza Soldiers arch as well.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/robert-e-lee-confederate-monuments/

I see you dodged the point

What the winning side does about their monuments, Robert E Lee didn't have much influence on -- since he lost

Something about to the victor goes the spoils or something..

His point was still he thought neither side should memorialize the war. And the whole point of the peace afterwards was that in the end everyone was an American again.

His side was gone at that point in a legal sense anyway.

See, that is the problem -- "Everyone was an American again"

No, everyone were not considered American to begin with, they were not even considered men -- remember?

So there was this attempt to try to Re-construct the south and in the process finally make everyone American -- plenty of DEMOCRATS -- (since you folks like to pretend this distinction means something) didn't want everyone to be Americans - many of them in defiance to losing their white supremacist institutions -- started erecting monuments as a way to keep their "Negroes" in line..

In fact, the whole monument thing was so big that states that were not even confederate put up monuments. Now one may ask wh would a city in a state that sat out the Civil War erect a monument to Confederate generals in 1948??

Aside from that, yea -- move all the confederate statues to museums or if you want to have a special park commissioned for confederate statues, have at it.

No, they used laws to do that. The current butt hurt over monuments has nothing to do with the issues of the past.

It's a bunch of mewling snowflakes like you who get the vapors over inanimate objects that have been around for decades or even a century.

It's as someone said before, you don't have the balls to go after your political enemies on real terms, so you go after things that can't fight back, and things you can use to imply your opponents racism.

why would a city in a state that sat out the Civil War erect a monument to Confederate generals in 1948??

You plan on answering this question today or never?

Because it was still a big part of recent American history? Because they were being filled up by people moving from states that did not sit it out?


Just off the top of my head.

 

[EverCurious]

I hear this statue was dedicated by a prick racist... the nasty type who glees about horsewhipping a woman for mouthing off at a white lady kinda shit. Was apparently to honor 10 confederate soldiers from the school though, not the prick.

I mean, I guess if the school wants to get rid of statues or whatever, that's their choice and option, but this letting hooligans tear shit up to get what they want is a circumvention of legal process. It's just like what the left does in everything else, mob rule and fuck the laws, fuck due process, fuck rights... Pretty scary shit how many of these fascist mother fuckers are running around in the nation. It's what happens when you get radical activists without boundaries in office, in the schools, in the courts... They have to make Trump a bad guy, because if they didn't they wouldn't have any excuse for not showing how dangerous things really are for the nation right now. Sad, but when they get Trump out... America will soon be over; socialism and fascism are the new way. They always told us that it'd only take two generations to lose our great nation - we scoffed at it. It's a damned shame to watch it happen in my lifetime. I'm already deciding where I'm going to protect myself and my family cause I figure we got a year, two max and it'll be too late - I recommend others seriously think about it... I'm going to go talk to my investor today and see what corners of the market might survive the collapse I'm expecting to hit shortly heh