Proof: Obama WAS Trying to Use Joint Speech As Political Ploy

[FA_Q2]

That's not logical. In every poll, they give the choice of a Republican, and Obama. What you're saying would make sense if the polls were all of the GOP choices VS Obama. Did you notice that they were individual polls?

I'm a fiscal conservative...why do you think numbers hurt my head?

In all honesty - those polls are meaningless anyway. The election is still way too far out and the real campaigns (the 1 on 1 campaigns) have not even started yet. Preprimary polls are not well known for their resounding accuracy.


Everyone talks like there is already a clear winner or even a clear favorite. There is not.

I couldn't agree more about this being a long way from the election in 2012. This far back from the 2008 election I thought it would be Hillary VS Gulianni, and that's what the polls were showing. This election is different though because it's an incumbent election, which means the only variable is the GOP pick.

IMHO...the 2012 election is Obama's to lose. I don't think whatever election rhetoric the GOP candidate comes up with will matter much. It's going to come down to the confidence the swing vote has in Obama in November 2012. A lot can happen between now and then, and recovery is unlikely, so I don't see how much Obama can really do but pray. I don't think anyone really believes the economy would have turned around between January 2009 and now if McCain would have won. Do you? I know it'll be a pure guess, but what do you think?

If McCain had won I think we would be in a slightly better position but the economy would still be in the shitter. I only believe that because I feel the healthcare law that was passed and the CRA are helping to keep us down. McCain did not have any better solutions for the rest of the problems though and I could very well believe that a similar stimulus plan would have been passed under him as well. On the other hand, we might actually have been doing far better due to confidence because McCain would have been forced to work with the democrats and there would be far less partisan shit because of that. I believe that congress would have swung far left instead of right as it did and the overwhelming majorities there would have given McCain no choice but to actually compromise. As things stand now, no one wants to give anything on to the other side and we are strangling ourselves with it.


As far as the election goes, I completely disagree. I think that it is for the republicans to win it this time. Obama's crap campaign style (hopey changey, ill clean up Washington and no actual points) will not fly this time and people are tired of his bullshit. I don't think there is a damn thing he can do about the election at all or that his campaign will be that successful. Republicans could walk in IF they put up a good candidate. My feeling, and the record, is that they will not and will have to fight hard to get the public to buy whomever they select. If they fail to run a damn good campaign, people will default to Obama even if they are pissed off at him. If they can get a decent challenger to the stage then I think they have a good shot. I am not so sure about Perry though if he wins it. I have a feeling that will be a bad move on the republicans part.


Even more interesting is what will happen to congress along with the president. If the right takes everything, we will have a problem. I don't think they will take the senate but it is a possibility. There are 21 dems vs only 10 pubs.
Which Senators are Up for Re-election in 2012

 

[toxicmedia]

In all honesty - those polls are meaningless anyway. The election is still way too far out and the real campaigns (the 1 on 1 campaigns) have not even started yet. Preprimary polls are not well known for their resounding accuracy.


Everyone talks like there is already a clear winner or even a clear favorite. There is not.

I couldn't agree more about this being a long way from the election in 2012. This far back from the 2008 election I thought it would be Hillary VS Gulianni, and that's what the polls were showing. This election is different though because it's an incumbent election, which means the only variable is the GOP pick.

IMHO...the 2012 election is Obama's to lose. I don't think whatever election rhetoric the GOP candidate comes up with will matter much. It's going to come down to the confidence the swing vote has in Obama in November 2012. A lot can happen between now and then, and recovery is unlikely, so I don't see how much Obama can really do but pray. I don't think anyone really believes the economy would have turned around between January 2009 and now if McCain would have won. Do you? I know it'll be a pure guess, but what do you think?

If McCain had won I think we would be in a slightly better position but the economy would still be in the shitter. I only believe that because I feel the healthcare law that was passed and the CRA are helping to keep us down. McCain did not have any better solutions for the rest of the problems though and I could very well believe that a similar stimulus plan would have been passed under him as well. On the other hand, we might actually have been doing far better due to confidence because McCain would have been forced to work with the democrats and there would be far less partisan shit because of that. I believe that congress would have swung far left instead of right as it did and the overwhelming majorities there would have given McCain no choice but to actually compromise. As things stand now, no one wants to give anything on to the other side and we are strangling ourselves with it.


As far as the election goes, I completely disagree. I think that it is for the republicans to win it this time. Obama's crap campaign style (hopey changey, ill clean up Washington and no actual points) will not fly this time and people are tired of his bullshit. I don't think there is a damn thing he can do about the election at all or that his campaign will be that successful. Republicans could walk in IF they put up a good candidate. My feeling, and the record, is that they will not and will have to fight hard to get the public to buy whomever they select. If they fail to run a damn good campaign, people will default to Obama even if they are pissed off at him. If they can get a decent challenger to the stage then I think they have a good shot. I am not so sure about Perry though if he wins it. I have a feeling that will be a bad move on the republicans part.


Even more interesting is what will happen to congress along with the president. If the right takes everything, we will have a problem. I don't think they will take the senate but it is a possibility. There are 21 dems vs only 10 pubs.
Which Senators are Up for Re-election in 2012

If the economy would still "be in the shitter" if McCain won...it'd be the Democrats taking back the white house in 2012. I don't share your opinion that the economy would be one hair's width better if McCain had won. I am of the belief that the executive can only affect the eceonomy plus or minus 10% in the most extreme cases, and I don't think the stimulus or healthcare reform are what is stifling job growth.

I think Perry, Bachmann, Gingrich, and God help us...Palin....are all on the wrong side of stupid. I might consider voting for Romney, and would have also considered Huntsman, Pawlenty, or Daniels.....but no such luck there. I'm a Goldwater/Eisenhower conservative, and I hate what has happened to what was once my party.

My guess is Romney will beat Obama by 1%, the senate will stay Democratic, and the house will gain more Republicans...and nothing will get done, and the economy will suck until 2016.

 

[FA_Q2]

If the economy would still "be in the shitter" if McCain won...it'd be the Democrats taking back the white house in 2012. I don't share your opinion that the economy would be one hair's width better if McCain had won. I am of the belief that the executive can only affect the eceonomy plus or minus 10% in the most extreme cases, and I don't think the stimulus or healthcare reform are what is stifling job growth.

I think Perry, Bachmann, Gingrich, and God help us...Palin....are all on the wrong side of stupid. I might consider voting for Romney, and would have also considered Huntsman, Pawlenty, or Daniels.....but no such luck there. I'm a Goldwater/Eisenhower conservative, and I hate what has happened to what was once my party.

My guess is Romney will beat Obama by 1%, the senate will stay Democratic, and the house will gain more Republicans...and nothing will get done, and the economy will suck until 2016.

I think Perry is going to get the nomination and then loose but I can see a significant gain in the senate for the republicans though I do not think they will gain anything that remotely looks like a majority. I would agree that nothing will get done but I would rather see that than what is going on now with the bullshit infighting and passage of plans that are hurting the economy more than helping. IMHO at least.

 

[FactFinder]

Based on what I saw of that "heralded debate' too bad Boener didn't let him preempt it.

 

[toxicmedia]

If the economy would still "be in the shitter" if McCain won...it'd be the Democrats taking back the white house in 2012. I don't share your opinion that the economy would be one hair's width better if McCain had won. I am of the belief that the executive can only affect the eceonomy plus or minus 10% in the most extreme cases, and I don't think the stimulus or healthcare reform are what is stifling job growth.

I think Perry, Bachmann, Gingrich, and God help us...Palin....are all on the wrong side of stupid. I might consider voting for Romney, and would have also considered Huntsman, Pawlenty, or Daniels.....but no such luck there. I'm a Goldwater/Eisenhower conservative, and I hate what has happened to what was once my party.

My guess is Romney will beat Obama by 1%, the senate will stay Democratic, and the house will gain more Republicans...and nothing will get done, and the economy will suck until 2016.

I think Perry is going to get the nomination and then loose but I can see a significant gain in the senate for the republicans though I do not think they will gain anything that remotely looks like a majority. I would agree that nothing will get done but I would rather see that than what is going on now with the bullshit infighting and passage of plans that are hurting the economy more than helping. IMHO at least.

I'm not impressed with Perry in any way. He's just another Christian social conservative that creates more liabilities forthe GOP instead of being attractive to swing voters. Palin, Bachmann, and Perry are all equally poor debators and candidates.

Even though I didn't vote for Obama, and am a fiscal conservative, I do not see healthcare reform and stimuli being as economically detrimental as the GOP electioneering efforts and conservative media are saying. There are so many things Obama has done wrong...you'd think the GOP and conservative media would seize upon those opportunities instead of this overblown garbage.

I think the GOP should accentuate Obama's complete lack of acknowlegement for the drastic spending cuts that need to be made to defense, social security, and medicare.

 

[FA_Q2]

If the economy would still "be in the shitter" if McCain won...it'd be the Democrats taking back the white house in 2012. I don't share your opinion that the economy would be one hair's width better if McCain had won. I am of the belief that the executive can only affect the eceonomy plus or minus 10% in the most extreme cases, and I don't think the stimulus or healthcare reform are what is stifling job growth.

I think Perry, Bachmann, Gingrich, and God help us...Palin....are all on the wrong side of stupid. I might consider voting for Romney, and would have also considered Huntsman, Pawlenty, or Daniels.....but no such luck there. I'm a Goldwater/Eisenhower conservative, and I hate what has happened to what was once my party.

My guess is Romney will beat Obama by 1%, the senate will stay Democratic, and the house will gain more Republicans...and nothing will get done, and the economy will suck until 2016.

I think Perry is going to get the nomination and then loose but I can see a significant gain in the senate for the republicans though I do not think they will gain anything that remotely looks like a majority. I would agree that nothing will get done but I would rather see that than what is going on now with the bullshit infighting and passage of plans that are hurting the economy more than helping. IMHO at least.

I'm not impressed with Perry in any way. He's just another Christian social conservative that creates more liabilities forthe GOP instead of being attractive to swing voters. Palin, Bachmann, and Perry are all equally poor debators and candidates.

Even though I didn't vote for Obama, and am a fiscal conservative, I do not see healthcare reform and stimuli being as economically detrimental as the GOP electioneering efforts and conservative media are saying. There are so many things Obama has done wrong...you'd think the GOP and conservative media would seize upon those opportunities instead of this overblown garbage.

I think the GOP should accentuate Obama's complete lack of acknowlegement for the drastic spending cuts that need to be made to defense, social security, and medicare.

I am not impressed with Perry either and rather think that he has a real chance at loosing the general. That is why I think he will be the GOP pick. They have a history of picking the worst possible candidate. The R's base seems dead set on picking someone that the center will never vote for. They are lucky that Obama is so bad or Perry would not have a chance.

On the rest, I disagree though I think we would disagree anyway as we are likely on different sides. Obamacare is one of the worst pieces of legislation that has come out in decades. It will damage not only our economy but I have a feeling that the effects are going to be very long and quite harmful. Real change and real reform is not going to happen now. Stimulus was also a disaster. 800 billion is nothing to laugh at and the stimulus II is a direct brainchild of that. It is not just the stimulus but the mindset that we simply need to spend our way to riches that is corrupting and it is going to put us in a position where solving this problem will be impossible because we are so far in debt.

 

[signelect]

Lets call it what it is. Obama give the finger to all Americans every chance he get because he thinks he is better than we are. Hell he bought two million dollars buses from Canada to use for campaign speeches and then flies to the bus after the bus has flown to the location, Why didn't he just use a bike.

 

[toxicmedia]

I think Perry is going to get the nomination and then loose but I can see a significant gain in the senate for the republicans though I do not think they will gain anything that remotely looks like a majority. I would agree that nothing will get done but I would rather see that than what is going on now with the bullshit infighting and passage of plans that are hurting the economy more than helping. IMHO at least.

I'm not impressed with Perry in any way. He's just another Christian social conservative that creates more liabilities forthe GOP instead of being attractive to swing voters. Palin, Bachmann, and Perry are all equally poor debators and candidates.

Even though I didn't vote for Obama, and am a fiscal conservative, I do not see healthcare reform and stimuli being as economically detrimental as the GOP electioneering efforts and conservative media are saying. There are so many things Obama has done wrong...you'd think the GOP and conservative media would seize upon those opportunities instead of this overblown garbage.

I think the GOP should accentuate Obama's complete lack of acknowlegement for the drastic spending cuts that need to be made to defense, social security, and medicare.

I am not impressed with Perry either and rather think that he has a real chance at loosing the general. That is why I think he will be the GOP pick. They have a history of picking the worst possible candidate. The R's base seems dead set on picking someone that the center will never vote for. They are lucky that Obama is so bad or Perry would not have a chance.

On the rest, I disagree though I think we would disagree anyway as we are likely on different sides. Obamacare is one of the worst pieces of legislation that has come out in decades. It will damage not only our economy but I have a feeling that the effects are going to be very long and quite harmful. Real change and real reform is not going to happen now. Stimulus was also a disaster. 800 billion is nothing to laugh at and the stimulus II is a direct brainchild of that. It is not just the stimulus but the mindset that we simply need to spend our way to riches that is corrupting and it is going to put us in a position where solving this problem will be impossible because we are so far in debt.

I work for a large California medical insurer. I just accepted a job that started last Tuesday that involves investigating medicare fraud...which IMHO...is way more of a strain on the federal medicare budget than healthcare reform is. I've worked for three of California's largest inusrers since 2006, and I've actualy read the 2000 or so pages of the law as they relate to insurance. What I learned from all this, is that healthcare reform isn't the monster it's made out to be. My lack of opposition to the law has nothing to do with ideology, but has everything to do with the practical implications for insurers.

The stimulus....it's just another 900 billion up against the trillions we're already behind. The real problems will start when there aren't enough young people to pay for social security and medicare. More real problems will start when otherwise profitable defense contractors start losing contracts and laying off workers, and when bases close, and the communities they're in suffer.

See....Republicans want to balance the budget and reduce the deficit without hitting these three areas, which means proposing that "liberals", "democrats", or somebody besides GOP voters suffer. That's their big BS....the Democrats...aren't even thinking about doing what's neccessary.

I want a leader. The notion that the GOP is the lesser of two evils doesn't hold water with me.

 

[saveliberty]

In the end the joint speech was a political ploy. Obama thinks he can frame it as a take all or nothing approach. Soon he will have to "negoiate". We all know how bad he is at that. This ends badly, because of political brinksmanship started by the President.

 

[toxicmedia]

In the end the joint speech was a political ploy. Obama thinks he can frame it as a take all or nothing approach. Soon he will have to "negoiate". We all know how bad he is at that. This ends badly, because of political brinksmanship started by the President.

As long as you recognize that everything all Republicans do is a political ploy as well...and as long as you recognize that "no spending increases and no tax increases" is a take all or nothing approach...and as long as you recognize that everything all Republicans do on Capitol Hill is political brinksmanship.....

....it should logically follow that you need to be mad at every politician in Washington, not just Obama, and being more mad at Obama is just what conservative media and the GOP want you to be. But let me guess....conservative media and the GOP aren't telling you that Republicans don't do anything bad, ever.....am I right?

 

[saveliberty]

I have no idea what the GOP is telling people. I'm Independent.

To date the only part of this bill I like is the unemployment pay with education as Georgia does. Otherwise it is just Stimulus II with the same poor results and further debt. No thank you.

 

[toxicmedia]

I have no idea what the GOP is telling people. I'm Independent.

To date the only part of this bill I like is the unemployment pay with education as Georgia does. Otherwise it is just Stimulus II with the same poor results and further debt. No thank you.

Of course you know what the GOP is telling people...you see it every day on this site when you read the posts by Republicans.

I'm an Independent too. Instead of being mad at everybody, I'm trying to put forth the notion that both sides are equally bad, and equally good. I don't believe Bush or Obama are evil, or unAmerican.

 

[saveliberty]

I have no idea what the GOP is telling people. I'm Independent.

To date the only part of this bill I like is the unemployment pay with education as Georgia does. Otherwise it is just Stimulus II with the same poor results and further debt. No thank you.

Of course you know what the GOP is telling people...you see it every day on this site when you read the posts by Republicans.

I'm an Independent too. Instead of being mad at everybody, I'm trying to put forth the notion that both sides are equally bad, and equally good. I don't believe Bush or Obama are evil, or unAmerican.

Nope. The idea that there is no good nor bad is a decidedly liberal view. The concept that there are only two choices for government leadership is also a flawed view.

 

[toxicmedia]

I have no idea what the GOP is telling people. I'm Independent.

To date the only part of this bill I like is the unemployment pay with education as Georgia does. Otherwise it is just Stimulus II with the same poor results and further debt. No thank you.

Of course you know what the GOP is telling people...you see it every day on this site when you read the posts by Republicans.

I'm an Independent too. Instead of being mad at everybody, I'm trying to put forth the notion that both sides are equally bad, and equally good. I don't believe Bush or Obama are evil, or unAmerican.

Nope. The idea that there is no good nor bad is a decidedly liberal view. The concept that there are only two choices for government leadership is also a flawed view.

That's just how conservative media defines liberalism.