Pride

[Zhukov]

Originally posted by NewGuy
From a purely comedy region of left field, how does one prove one exists?
:

Cogito ergo sum; I think therefore I am.

That is enough for me.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by Zhukov
Cogito ergo sum; I think therefore I am.

That is enough for me.

Wow. That is a pretty big leap.

Understanding it as an acceptable belief, I dont understand the logical proof going from thinking to being.

 

[Zhukov]

Originally posted by NewGuy
Wow. That is a pretty big leap.

Understanding it as an acceptable belief, I dont understand the logical proof going from thinking to being.

Well, then answer this: If I think, how can I not exist? For I, at the very least, exist in thought.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by Zhukov
Well, then answer this: If I think, how can I not exist? For I, at the very least, exist in thought.

-Or you THINK you do.



If thought is an energy, which is easilly proven by illustrating biochemical processes producing electrical signals, then you are claiming existance of your complete whole (matter and energy) by the simple observation of the appearance of energy as the biochemical processes dictate.

HOWEVER.

If BEING is illustrated by proving only the energy and matter, you still cannot prove "you" are only electrical and matter in the form produced as said "you".

 

[Zhukov]

It has nothing to do with matter/energy. It has to do with thought, in whatever form it manifests. The fact that I think is enough.

If I think I exist, I do exist, else I would not be able to think.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by Zhukov
It has nothing to do with matter/energy. It has to do with thought, in whatever form it manifests. The fact that I think is enough.

If I think I exist, I do exist, else I would not be able to think.

That is the problem. Thought is supposed to be energy.

If you think, and you produce thought to think yourself real, that would be circular logic meaning you not only "think therefore you are", but think as a result OF your thought.

If this is the case, there could be no end. That would go against your very existance and death.

Therefore, it is impossible to "be" as a result of thought.

 

[Zhukov]

Originally posted by NewGuy
That is the problem. Thought is supposed to be energy.

Then what are God's thoughts made of?

If you think, and you produce thought to think yourself real, that would be circular logic meaning you not only "think therefore you are", but think as a result OF your thought.

"If you think," FULL STOP

That's all there is to it. The fact of your thought proves your existence.

How can something that doesn't exist think?

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by Zhukov
Then what are God's thoughts made of?

We have no way to know.

"If you think," FULL STOP

That's all there is to it. The fact of your thought proves your existence.

How can something that doesn't exist think?

Do illusions exist then?

You assume thoughts to be things you produce.
They could be illusions.

 

[Zhukov]

Of course illusions exist. You can perceive them, 'illusion' even has an entry in the dictionary.

Things that don't exist can't be defined can they? They have no properties. They do not exist.


Again I ask though, how can something that doesn't exist think?

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by Zhukov
Of course illusions exist. You can perceive them, 'illusion' even has an entry in the dictionary.

Things that don't exist can't be defined can they? They have no properties. They do not exist.


Again I ask though, how can something that doesn't exist think?

That is what I am trying to understand the parameters of.

How do we know that only percieved things exist and things not percieved don't?

I am trying to go one logical step at a time.

 

[Zhukov]

Well, you're going beyond the scope of my original statement. I'm not trying to prove the existence of anything besides myself, because ultimately I can't.

As I said earlier, the only thing I can be 100% sure exists is myself.


But if I can perceive something then it exists, at least in thought, as far as it concerns me. I can see this computer screen, so it, at the very least, exists in my mind. The illusions of a schizophrenic are very real, to him.

 

[NewGuy]

Good enough.

 

[Avatar4321]

First, great comments on Pride. I want to add to them by saying that if you want to be humble, then serve others and make that service part of you. When you are doing things for others with the right attitude pride is impossible because all you feel is love and concern.

As for the other discussion. Does anyone know how Descarte died? He was out shopping in the market place and a vendor asked him if he wanted some prune. He responded "I think not" And thats the last we heard from him:

 

[musicman]

 

[KLSuddeth]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
I get email, therefore I am?

You stole that, damnit. THats MINE and you KNOW it!!!!

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