Power windows

[toobfreak]

I keep hoping that it is something as simple as a rubber gasket facing the wrong way or lubrication as you say. I plan to keep it as long as it will run. However, if I have to get used to the fact that one of the back windows doesn't work, I can live with that, too, if this repair is going to end up being a huge hairy deal.

Having recently replaced the mechanism in my own car, I can tell you any mechanic worthy of the title can do this fairly rapidly; it isn't like fitting a 427 into a Sprite!

It's actually an easy job, usually the hardest part is getting the right nylon fasteners and getting all the panels back into place held tight again. Then there is the other issue: why did the motor die? Did it just go bad or was it forced to fail by an over-current condition because the glides for the window are bad, etc? If you are going to fix this, you want to be sure to fix the CAUSE of the problem, not just the offending part, so that everything works like new again and will stay working well for many years.

It's all speculation until you can:

1. Do the switch test to confirm that the motor misbehaves both from its own door and the drivers.
2. Assuming the latter, open the door, look in there and assess the problem.

Do the switch test to confirm that the motor misbehaves both from its own door and the drivers.
Couldn't I do that just by trying it from my seat and then trying it in back? Then I could tell the mechanic when I bring it in?

Yep. If the motor works normal from the rear door but funky from the driver position, kinda hard to blame the motor. But at least if it acts the same way from either door, it makes it a much safer bet the problem is in the affected door.

Yeah, you'll shock the mechanic by showing him you already used logic and reason to partially diagnose the problem, and maybe suggest to him you aren't an easy pushover. Of course, it would be really nice if you could attach an ammeter to the battery or an inductive one, (you could also put a voltmeter across the battery and watch the terminal voltage) that you can look at the load on the electric as you operate the switch. But maybe if you wait till dark and operate the window switch and can watch the overhead roof lights for any dimming, etc., that too can tell you some things.

• If you're pushing the button and the window doesn't move or hum or anything and the lights appear unaffected, you might have a faulty / open circuit. Terminal voltage doesn't change.

• But if you push the button and the window doesn't move but you hear a hum or see the lights dim, that suggests you have a motor TRYING to work, jammed, stuck, dry, or a short somewhere. Terminal voltage should drop.

if you wait till dark and operate the window switch and can watch the overhead roof lights for any dimming, etc., that too can tell you some things.
I'll do it. Thanks, Toob!

You do understand why that happens!

When you are sitting there with the overheads light on (just open the door), you complete 1 circuit to the battery (R1). Voltage across light bulb basically equals battery voltage (E).

If you operate the window and the lights remain unaffected, that suggests that you closed no other circuit (faulty switch, wire or motor) and the above remained in effect.

But if you operate the window and it doesn't move, etc., but the lights dim, you've opened a parallel circuit to the light. Voltage across light bulb drops dimming the light because now you have a parallel voltage divider circuit.

E: Battery terminal voltage. You only have at best about 13 volts to share amongst the car.

R1: (resistance / load 1) voltage dropped across overhead light.

R2: (resistance / load 2) voltage dropped across window motor circuit. Since these are in parallel to the battery (branch circuits), the voltage available to either will always be the same. If motor is jammed or shorted, R2 will be like a near dead short, current goes way up, battery voltage drops because of Rin, and the overhead lamp acts as a low voltage indicator.

Rin: This is the internal resistance of the battery. All batteries have internal resistance and it goes up with age. When you draw a lot of current from the battery, you drop a significant part of the cell voltage across its own internal resistance, so the terminal voltage drops under load. Your light dims indicating a high load condition that was not there before.

In this case, either the motor is trying to work (held back) or there is a short in the circuit (bad motor, bad wire, or bad switch). If motor acts the same from both doors, probably not a bad switch.

You might want to also locate the fuse for the power windows and try to rotate it or remove and re-insert it just to be sure there is no funky dirty connection there.

 

[miketx]

Window motor and regulator. Replace them both.

 

[Shawnee_b]

Get a loan. Vette window updowner went bad. $400

 

[OldLady]

Having recently replaced the mechanism in my own car, I can tell you any mechanic worthy of the title can do this fairly rapidly; it isn't like fitting a 427 into a Sprite!

It's actually an easy job, usually the hardest part is getting the right nylon fasteners and getting all the panels back into place held tight again. Then there is the other issue: why did the motor die? Did it just go bad or was it forced to fail by an over-current condition because the glides for the window are bad, etc? If you are going to fix this, you want to be sure to fix the CAUSE of the problem, not just the offending part, so that everything works like new again and will stay working well for many years.

It's all speculation until you can:

1. Do the switch test to confirm that the motor misbehaves both from its own door and the drivers.
2. Assuming the latter, open the door, look in there and assess the problem.

Do the switch test to confirm that the motor misbehaves both from its own door and the drivers.
Couldn't I do that just by trying it from my seat and then trying it in back? Then I could tell the mechanic when I bring it in?

Yep. If the motor works normal from the rear door but funky from the driver position, kinda hard to blame the motor. But at least if it acts the same way from either door, it makes it a much safer bet the problem is in the affected door.

Yeah, you'll shock the mechanic by showing him you already used logic and reason to partially diagnose the problem, and maybe suggest to him you aren't an easy pushover. Of course, it would be really nice if you could attach an ammeter to the battery or an inductive one, (you could also put a voltmeter across the battery and watch the terminal voltage) that you can look at the load on the electric as you operate the switch. But maybe if you wait till dark and operate the window switch and can watch the overhead roof lights for any dimming, etc., that too can tell you some things.

• If you're pushing the button and the window doesn't move or hum or anything and the lights appear unaffected, you might have a faulty / open circuit. Terminal voltage doesn't change.

• But if you push the button and the window doesn't move but you hear a hum or see the lights dim, that suggests you have a motor TRYING to work, jammed, stuck, dry, or a short somewhere. Terminal voltage should drop.

if you wait till dark and operate the window switch and can watch the overhead roof lights for any dimming, etc., that too can tell you some things.
I'll do it. Thanks, Toob!

You do understand why that happens!

When you are sitting there with the overheads light on (just open the door), you complete 1 circuit to the battery (R1). Voltage across light bulb basically equals battery voltage (E).

If you operate the window and the lights remain unaffected, that suggests that you closed no other circuit (faulty switch, wire or motor) and the above remained in effect.

But if you operate the window and it doesn't move, etc., but the lights dim, you've opened a parallel circuit to the light. Voltage across light bulb drops dimming the light because now you have a parallel voltage divider circuit.

E: Battery terminal voltage. You only have at best about 13 volts to share amongst the car.

R1: (resistance / load 1) voltage dropped across overhead light.

R2: (resistance / load 2) voltage dropped across window motor circuit. Since these are in parallel to the battery (branch circuits), the voltage available to either will always be the same. If motor is jammed or shorted, R2 will be like a near dead short, current goes way up, battery voltage drops because of Rin, and the overhead lamp acts as a low voltage indicator.

Rin: This is the internal resistance of the battery. All batteries have internal resistance and it goes up with age. When you draw a lot of current from the battery, you drop a significant part of the cell voltage across its own internal resistance, so the terminal voltage drops under load. Your light dims indicating a high load condition that was not there before.

In this case, either the motor is trying to work (held back) or there is a short in the circuit (bad motor, bad wire, or bad switch). If motor acts the same from both doors, probably not a bad switch.

You might want to also locate the fuse for the power windows and try to rotate it or remove and re-insert it just to be sure there is no funky dirty connection there.

Now you're just showing off and no I haven't got a fucking clue what you're saying but if the overhead light dims it means something and I will tell my mechanic with a well informed look on my face and hope he doesn't ask me anything else.

Actually, it is sounding like a lot of diagnosing, which sounds like a lot of labor, which is a lot of money, and maybe I should just take bandaids and cover over those buttons on my door and the back door and live with it.

 

[Natural Citizen]

The power window in the back passenger side of my car isn't responding right. Sometimes it doesn't work at all and when it does, it is super slow.

One of regulars at the local diner owns one of the busiest garages in town, so this morning I asked who could fix it--I thought it would take a body shop or something since I know you have to pretty much take the door apart. He said his shop can do it, but he launched into the longest, most complicated explanation of what might be wrong and that it would take at least two visits to fix it and whether I should maybe buy a motor and take it back if I didn't need it, etc. That kind of shit is why I stopped going to him a few years ago.

Do you think a regular mechanic can handle it or should I look for an autobody shop that can do it without performing neurosurgery on my car?

PS if I had a choice I'd still have plain old crank windows. The chances of a power window crapping out in the open position is just too high for my druthers. I haven't seen any of those in a car in a long time, though.

Might just be the switch is bad or even just gummed up. That's usually what it is.

Otherwise give the door a really good slam and see if it starts working again.

Just had a window not working on my vette and a good slam fixed it. So then I took the inner door panel off and gave it a good dose of WD-40 along the track and haven't had a problem with it since.

Most of the time it's just the switch that's bad or dirty, though.

 

[OldLady]

The power window in the back passenger side of my car isn't responding right. Sometimes it doesn't work at all and when it does, it is super slow.

One of regulars at the local diner owns one of the busiest garages in town, so this morning I asked who could fix it--I thought it would take a body shop or something since I know you have to pretty much take the door apart. He said his shop can do it, but he launched into the longest, most complicated explanation of what might be wrong and that it would take at least two visits to fix it and whether I should maybe buy a motor and take it back if I didn't need it, etc. That kind of shit is why I stopped going to him a few years ago.

Do you think a regular mechanic can handle it or should I look for an autobody shop that can do it without performing neurosurgery on my car?

PS if I had a choice I'd still have plain old crank windows. The chances of a power window crapping out in the open position is just too high for my druthers. I haven't seen any of those in a car in a long time, though.

Might just be the switch is bad or even just gummed up. That's usually what it is.

Otherwise give the door a really good slam and see if it starts working again.

Just had a window not working on my vette and a good slam fixed it. So then I took the inner door panel off and gave it a good dose of WD-40 along the track and haven't had a problem with it since.

Most of the time it's just the switch that's bad or dirty, though.

Thanks, NC!

 

[Natural Citizen]

Get a loan. Vette window updowner went bad. $400

Our stuff costs more than everybody elses just because they think we must be rich or something. Not really comparable. Heh heh.

That darned vette tax is a bitch, isn't it?

I don't even like letting anyone else work on mine. They rarely know what they're doing with em. They're basically learning on your car. A did let someone else replace the rack but even then I still had to go behind em and adjust the tie rods right. They had the left side turning wider than the right side.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

The power window in the back passenger side of my car isn't responding right. Sometimes it doesn't work at all and when it does, it is super slow.

One of regulars at the local diner owns one of the busiest garages in town, so this morning I asked who could fix it--I thought it would take a body shop or something since I know you have to pretty much take the door apart. He said his shop can do it, but he launched into the longest, most complicated explanation of what might be wrong and that it would take at least two visits to fix it and whether I should maybe buy a motor and take it back if I didn't need it, etc. That kind of shit is why I stopped going to him a few years ago.

Do you think a regular mechanic can handle it or should I look for an autobody shop that can do it without performing neurosurgery on my car?

PS if I had a choice I'd still have plain old crank windows. The chances of a power window crapping out in the open position is just too high for my druthers. I haven't seen any of those in a car in a long time, though.

Actually those that install car glasses can usually do it.

Had an issue where the window on a Honda van just went down and took it to the guy that fixed my accord broken window and he fixed it.

It sound like a motor issue or could also be a dirty tract.

MikeTx might know more, so you should ask him in PM and no I am serious...

 

[miketx]

The power window in the back passenger side of my car isn't responding right. Sometimes it doesn't work at all and when it does, it is super slow.

One of regulars at the local diner owns one of the busiest garages in town, so this morning I asked who could fix it--I thought it would take a body shop or something since I know you have to pretty much take the door apart. He said his shop can do it, but he launched into the longest, most complicated explanation of what might be wrong and that it would take at least two visits to fix it and whether I should maybe buy a motor and take it back if I didn't need it, etc. That kind of shit is why I stopped going to him a few years ago.

Do you think a regular mechanic can handle it or should I look for an autobody shop that can do it without performing neurosurgery on my car?

PS if I had a choice I'd still have plain old crank windows. The chances of a power window crapping out in the open position is just too high for my druthers. I haven't seen any of those in a car in a long time, though.

Actually those that install car glasses can usually do it.

Had an issue where the window on a Honda van just went down and took it to the guy that fixed my accord broken window and he fixed it.

It sound like a motor issue or could also be a dirty tract.

MikeTx might know more, so you should ask him in PM and no I am serious...

I already told her what it most likely was. If it still goes up and down, it's not the switch. If the lights dim the window motor is drawing too much current. Usually the window motor and regulator are sold together as they can both be bad. Here is an example of a motor and reg. assembly.

 

[Natural Citizen]

I already told her what it most likely was. If it still goes up and down, it's not the switch. If the lights dim the window motor is drawing too much current. Usually the window motor and regulator are sold together as they can both be bad. Here is an example of a motor and reg. assembly.

Hers likely looks more like this...

So she might just need a good lube on the pivots and track. That stuff gets old and dry over time and tends to slow it down or even stop it from running completely. That's why I mentioned about giving the door a couple of good slams to maybe free it up. That's worked most of the time for a lot of the fellers over on the corvette forum. The passenger windows hardly ever get used so the grease on the tracks and pivot points dries up and starts to slow down or stop workingg completely from the sticking.

I'd hate to see her get suckered into buying a whole new regulator and motor if all she needs is a fresh lube.

 

[miketx]

I already told her what it most likely was. If it still goes up and down, it's not the switch. If the lights dim the window motor is drawing too much current. Usually the window motor and regulator are sold together as they can both be bad. Here is an example of a motor and reg. assembly.

Hers likely looks more like this...

So she might just need a good lube. That stuff gets old and dry over time and tends to slow it down or even stop it from running completely.

I'd hate to see her get suckered into buying a whole new regulator and motor if all she needs is a fresh lube.

I'd hate to be the poor bastard that gives her a fresh lube.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

The power window in the back passenger side of my car isn't responding right. Sometimes it doesn't work at all and when it does, it is super slow.

One of regulars at the local diner owns one of the busiest garages in town, so this morning I asked who could fix it--I thought it would take a body shop or something since I know you have to pretty much take the door apart. He said his shop can do it, but he launched into the longest, most complicated explanation of what might be wrong and that it would take at least two visits to fix it and whether I should maybe buy a motor and take it back if I didn't need it, etc. That kind of shit is why I stopped going to him a few years ago.

Do you think a regular mechanic can handle it or should I look for an autobody shop that can do it without performing neurosurgery on my car?

PS if I had a choice I'd still have plain old crank windows. The chances of a power window crapping out in the open position is just too high for my druthers. I haven't seen any of those in a car in a long time, though.

Actually those that install car glasses can usually do it.

Had an issue where the window on a Honda van just went down and took it to the guy that fixed my accord broken window and he fixed it.

It sound like a motor issue or could also be a dirty tract.

MikeTx might know more, so you should ask him in PM and no I am serious...

I already told her what it most likely was. If it still goes up and down, it's not the switch. If the lights dim the window motor is drawing too much current. Usually the window motor and regulator are sold together as they can both be bad. Here is an example of a motor and reg. assembly.

Window motor went out on the Honda, and I figured that is what it was but hell I still think Trump will lose the 2016 election, so what do I know...

Anyhoo, anyone that replaces car windows should be able to do it for her.

It cost us I believe $125 to have the motor replace on the driver side window ( company paid for it ) but that was eleven years ago...

 

[Natural Citizen]

I'd hate to be the poor bastard that gives her a fresh lube.

Dang, mike. You're a dick. lol.

I think she said she drove a Subaru in one of the other threads. If she jumps on a Subaru forum and explains the problem, I got ten Federal Reserve Notes that says someone in the area will offer to come over and probably have that thing fixed in like ten minutes.

 

[miketx]

I'd hate to be the poor bastard that gives her a fresh lube.

Dang, mike. You're a dick. lol.

I think she said she drove a Subaru in one of the other threads. If she jumps on a Subaru forum and explains the problem, I got ten Federal Reserve Notes that says someone in the area will offer to come over and probably have that thing fixed in like ten minutes.

Suburu? So she's a lesbian too boot! Oh my God!

 

[toobfreak]

Now you're just showing off.

Now why would you say that? I'm just giving you the basic electrical theory on how this stuff works. I'm not trying to "show off," just merely trying to teach. If you really read what I wrote and look at this drawing, I think you'll understand a lot. Here is how your car is wired (slightly simplified, the window switches are actually two way reversing across both hot and cold, but that would be complicated to draw and understand).

1. When you open your door, you close the DOOR SWITCH completing the left loop turning the light on.
2. When you press either window switch, you close the circuit to the window motor completing the right loop making the window move.
3. These are two LOOP circuits in parallel (side-by-side) each across the battery terminals. The current goes out on the negative (blue) and comes back on the red. Current ALWAYS flows that way because the battery has a built-up imbalance of charge and the battery is trying to balance (cancel) that. Since they are each across the battery independent of the other, they both see the same full battery voltage.
4. Since the battery has its own built up internal resistance inside it, when a lot of current is drawn, the voltage at the battery terminals will go down. So if the light dims when you operate the window but the window doesn't move, you know that either the motor is trying but stuck, or there is a short somewhere.

Now, I can take you beyond that. I could even guide you to fixing it yourself by simple step-by-step Q & A. I've probably done more for you here now than any of your liberal friends here ever have. Your choice next whether you want to insult me some more, ask me questions, or do nothing.

As to diagnostics. no, this is not complicated or a lot of diagnostics for any electrical technician. This is simple, basic stuff, it only sounds complicated because it's all new to you. Any competent technician should be able to find your problem and fix it with one hand behind his back and get your window working like new. But at least now you have a picture and a concept of what your car has and is doing.

Additional reading:

Window regulator, Window motor: how it works, problems, symptoms, testing

 

[miketx]

Now you're just showing off.

Now why would you say that? I'm just giving you the basic electrical theory on how this stuff works. I'm not trying to "show off," just merely trying to teach. If you really read what I wrote and look at this drawing, I think you'll understand a lot. Here is how your car is wired (slightly simplified, the window switches are actually two way reversing across both hot and cold, but that would be complicated to draw and understand).



View attachment 309587

1. When you open your door, you close the DOOR SWITCH completing the left loop turning the light on.
2. When you press either window switch, you close the circuit to the window motor completing the right loop making the window move.
3. These are two LOOP circuits in parallel (side-by-side) each across the battery terminals. The current goes out on the negative (blue) and comes back on the red. Current ALWAYS flows that way because the battery has a built-up imbalance of charge and the battery is trying to balance (cancel) that. Since they are each across the battery independent of the other, they both see the same full battery voltage.
4. Since the battery has its own built up internal resistance inside it, when a lot of current is drawn, the voltage at the battery terminals will go down. So if the light dims when you operate the window but the window doesn't move, you know that either the motor is trying but stuck, or there is a short somewhere.

Now, I can take you beyond that. I could even guide you to fixing it yourself by simple step-by-step Q & A. I've probably done more for you here now than any of your liberal friends here ever have. Your choice next whether you want to insult me some more, ask me questions, or do nothing.

As to diagnostics. no, this is not complicated or a lot of diagnostics for any electrical technician. This is simple, basic stuff, it only sounds complicated because it's all new to you. Any competent technician should be able to find your problem and fix it with one hand behind his back and get your window working like new. But at least now you have a picture and a concept of what your car has and is doing.

Additional reading:

Window regulator, Window motor: how it works, problems, symptoms, testing

You left the computer out.

 

[OldLady]

The power window in the back passenger side of my car isn't responding right. Sometimes it doesn't work at all and when it does, it is super slow.

One of regulars at the local diner owns one of the busiest garages in town, so this morning I asked who could fix it--I thought it would take a body shop or something since I know you have to pretty much take the door apart. He said his shop can do it, but he launched into the longest, most complicated explanation of what might be wrong and that it would take at least two visits to fix it and whether I should maybe buy a motor and take it back if I didn't need it, etc. That kind of shit is why I stopped going to him a few years ago.

Do you think a regular mechanic can handle it or should I look for an autobody shop that can do it without performing neurosurgery on my car?

PS if I had a choice I'd still have plain old crank windows. The chances of a power window crapping out in the open position is just too high for my druthers. I haven't seen any of those in a car in a long time, though.

Actually those that install car glasses can usually do it.

Had an issue where the window on a Honda van just went down and took it to the guy that fixed my accord broken window and he fixed it.

It sound like a motor issue or could also be a dirty tract.

MikeTx might know more, so you should ask him in PM and no I am serious...

I already told her what it most likely was. If it still goes up and down, it's not the switch. If the lights dim the window motor is drawing too much current. Usually the window motor and regulator are sold together as they can both be bad. Here is an example of a motor and reg. assembly.

Thanks, mike.

 

[OldLady]

Now you're just showing off.

Now why would you say that? I'm just giving you the basic electrical theory on how this stuff works. I'm not trying to "show off," just merely trying to teach. If you really read what I wrote and look at this drawing, I think you'll understand a lot. Here is how your car is wired (slightly simplified, the window switches are actually two way reversing across both hot and cold, but that would be complicated to draw and understand).



View attachment 309587

1. When you open your door, you close the DOOR SWITCH completing the left loop turning the light on.
2. When you press either window switch, you close the circuit to the window motor completing the right loop making the window move.
3. These are two LOOP circuits in parallel (side-by-side) each across the battery terminals. The current goes out on the negative (blue) and comes back on the red. Current ALWAYS flows that way because the battery has a built-up imbalance of charge and the battery is trying to balance (cancel) that. Since they are each across the battery independent of the other, they both see the same full battery voltage.
4. Since the battery has its own built up internal resistance inside it, when a lot of current is drawn, the voltage at the battery terminals will go down. So if the light dims when you operate the window but the window doesn't move, you know that either the motor is trying but stuck, or there is a short somewhere.

Now, I can take you beyond that. I could even guide you to fixing it yourself by simple step-by-step Q & A. I've probably done more for you here now than any of your liberal friends here ever have. Your choice next whether you want to insult me some more, ask me questions, or do nothing.

As to diagnostics. no, this is not complicated or a lot of diagnostics for any electrical technician. This is simple, basic stuff, it only sounds complicated because it's all new to you. Any competent technician should be able to find your problem and fix it with one hand behind his back and get your window working like new. But at least now you have a picture and a concept of what your car has and is doing.

Additional reading:

Window regulator, Window motor: how it works, problems, symptoms, testing

Thanks, toob.

 

[Likkmee]

A "regular" mechanic can do it and so can a body shop. A "good" mechanic will fix it and neuro surgery may be required- I don't think it should take 2 visits but you may have to leave it until somebody can get to it then that somebody may have to order a part (probably a motor) and that may not be available locally.Power windows are handy but I too prefer crank windows.

I dont use Windows

 

[OldLady]

A "regular" mechanic can do it and so can a body shop. A "good" mechanic will fix it and neuro surgery may be required- I don't think it should take 2 visits but you may have to leave it until somebody can get to it then that somebody may have to order a part (probably a motor) and that may not be available locally.Power windows are handy but I too prefer crank windows.

I dont use Windows
View attachment 309607

Don't things get a little wet, likkmee? Maybe you've got two vehicles, one for rainy days.