Poll: High-Speed Rail for $53b

[Sallow]

What does high speed rail run on?

Electricity

from Magnets. Magnetic /electricity

MagLevs..are the bomb!

 

[LibocalypseNow]

First of all if the Government is telling you the cost will be $53 Billion,just go ahead and think $300 to $400 Billion. And it would likely cost even more in my opinion. I go with Ron Paul on these things. The costs are always way way more than the Government initially claims. So just go ahead and flush that $53 Billion number down the toilet. It aint gonna happen. This would have to be done by the Private Sector. End of story.

 

[kwc57]

You have an interstate highway system linking all the major cities across the nation. You build the HSR on pylons in the median between opposing lanes. The land is already there, use it and follow the road routes. There would only be minimal right of way needs where the rail would split for the road coming into stations in the cities.

The other thing different about HSR over say airline travel is that you can't hijack a train to another country or turn it into a missle or knock it out of the sky. TSA anal probes would not be necessary and people could travel more quickly and easily. Unlike a plane, if you need additional passenger or luggage storage, you just insert another car.

 

[kiwiman127]

But we can afford to be in an Arms Race with ourselves?

 

[ScreamingEagle]

One needs to understand that it is always the TAXPAYER that winds up paying and paying and paying for HSR systems everywhere.....
It simply is not a good investment.....either privately or by the government....that is, the taxpayer...

Japan, with the world’s leading system, illustrates the financial devastation that high-speed rail can produce. For 25 years, Japan borrowed to build a system serving the ideal rail corridor, nestled along a single coast with a population of more than 75 million people. Ridership was artificially increased by high gasoline prices and one of the highest highway tolls in the world. Yet this modest system, only twice as long as proposed California system, played a major role in driving up a gargantuan rail debt that was transferred to Japanese taxpayers. The rail debt added more than 10 percent to the national debt. This is akin to adding $1.4 trillion to the U.S. national debt.

Virtually everywhere high-speed rail has been constructed, financial liability has fallen to the taxpayers. In Taiwan and the United Kingdom, taxpayers assumed billions of dollars in private debts for much more modest high-speed-rail systems than Japan’s.

High-Speed Rail, Budget Buster - Wendell Cox - National Review Online

 

[rightwinger]

You have an interstate highway system linking all the major cities across the nation. You build the HSR on pylons in the median between opposing lanes. The land is already there, use it and follow the road routes. There would only be minimal right of way needs where the rail would split for the road coming into stations in the cities.

The other thing different about HSR over say airline travel is that you can't hijack a train to another country or turn it into a missle or knock it out of the sky. TSA anal probes would not be necessary and people could travel more quickly and easily. Unlike a plane, if you need additional passenger or luggage storage, you just insert another car.

With a plane you only need to protect the entry points to the plane. How do you protect a thousand miles of track? Knocking off a train will kill more passengers than a plane

 

[ScreamingEagle]

The other thing different about HSR over say airline travel is that you can't hijack a train to another country or turn it into a missle or knock it out of the sky. TSA anal probes would not be necessary and people could travel more quickly and easily. Unlike a plane, if you need additional passenger or luggage storage, you just insert another car.

Are you kidding....? Trains are a natural target for terrorists....or don't you remember the bombings in Madrid 2004?....they killed 191 and wounded 1800....or in London 2005?...56 killed and 700 wounded....or in Mumbai?...209 killed and over 700 wounded....

HSR would only enlarge the TSA (potential) union....you would still be zapped or felt up....

 

[Mustang]

It's high time we began a long trudge to catch up with Europe, Japan and China.
It'll be years before we see high speed in operation. They've had it for years already.

Thanks to conservatives, the US is falling behind more forward thinking countries. Germany is advanced in solar energy. China is working hard to try to eclipse (no pun intended) all other countries in the development of solar power technology. All of Europe is developing an integrated wind power grid. Brazil already has an advanced system of ethanol powered cars and trucks which keeps it from being dependent on ME oil. Of course, none of these ideas would have gotten very far without the partnership of the respective gov'ts in all these countries.

Unfortunately, the modern day conservative mentality is to try to stand in the way of American success if Obama can take any credit for it at all. Some conservatives are like children in that sense. Given the choice between American success under a Democrat administration or American failure as our country loses ground to China, India and others in the new global competition, they choose failure in the hope that will allow them to regain power. Those are signs of shortsighted selfishness and emotional immaturity.

 

[kwc57]

You have an interstate highway system linking all the major cities across the nation. You build the HSR on pylons in the median between opposing lanes. The land is already there, use it and follow the road routes. There would only be minimal right of way needs where the rail would split for the road coming into stations in the cities.

The other thing different about HSR over say airline travel is that you can't hijack a train to another country or turn it into a missle or knock it out of the sky. TSA anal probes would not be necessary and people could travel more quickly and easily. Unlike a plane, if you need additional passenger or luggage storage, you just insert another car.

With a plane you only need to protect the entry points to the plane. How do you protect a thousand miles of track? Knocking off a train will kill more passengers than a plane

Well, if you run them down the median of the interstate system, it becomes a little obvious when Mohammed and Hakim are trying to strap a bomb to a pylon. Terrorist use things that strike fear into peoples hearts. Many people fear flying and falling 30,000 feet out of the sky. How many people do you know who fear riding on a train? While they COULD kill more people on a train, the psychological impact just ins't the same and that is part of what they are looking for. We already have passenger trains and busses. How many terrorist attackes against them have you heard of? The only difference between a passenger train and HSR is speed.

 

[Faccops]

It just sounds too risky to me... I'm afraid we'll get committed to a huge money sinkhole we can't afford, and that it will ruin our economy.

It seems like similar has happened to various cities that have built light-rail with taxpayer money... and wind up with little ridership to show for it.

 

[McDowell's]

You have an interstate highway system linking all the major cities across the nation. You build the HSR on pylons in the median between opposing lanes. The land is already there, use it and follow the road routes. There would only be minimal right of way needs where the rail would split for the road coming into stations in the cities.

The other thing different about HSR over say airline travel is that you can't hijack a train to another country or turn it into a missle or knock it out of the sky. TSA anal probes would not be necessary and people could travel more quickly and easily. Unlike a plane, if you need additional passenger or luggage storage, you just insert another car.

With a plane you only need to protect the entry points to the plane. How do you protect a thousand miles of track? Knocking off a train will kill more passengers than a plane

Well, if you run them down the median of the interstate system, it becomes a little obvious when Mohammed and Hakim are trying to strap a bomb to a pylon. Terrorist use things that strike fear into peoples hearts. Many people fear flying and falling 30,000 feet out of the sky. How many people do you know who fear riding on a train? While they COULD kill more people on a train, the psychological impact just ins't the same and that is part of what they are looking for. We already have passenger trains and busses. How many terrorist attackes against them have you heard of? The only difference between a passenger train and HSR is speed.

You've never heard of a car bomb either?

 

[uscitizen]

I like the idea but unfortunately our Government cannot afford it. Spending more money we don't have will not help our Economy in the end. Now if this was a private venture,it would be good news all around. Maybe the President can hit is good buddies up over at Google & GE for the cash? He has a very cozy relationship with these Corporations so maybe he can convince them to pony up the $53 Billion. They certainly have the cash. This is just the wrong time to propose this kind of Government spending extravagance. He really should look to the Private Sector on this one.

Can we afford not to come up with alternatives to oil intensive modes of transportation?

 

[Faccops]

Can we afford not to come up with alternatives to oil intensive modes of transportation?

Isn't the private sector already doing/developing that via electric cars that continue to get more popular?

As somebody said: the U.S. just has too many square miles for high speed trains to be our solution.

 

[Mustang]

Can we afford not to come up with alternatives to oil intensive modes of transportation?

Isn't the private sector already doing/developing that via electric cars that continue to get more popular?

As somebody said: the U.S. just has too many square miles for high speed trains to be our solution.

You have a defeatist attitude.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

It's high time we began a long trudge to catch up with Europe, Japan and China.
It'll be years before we see high speed in operation. They've had it for years already.

Thanks to conservatives, the US is falling behind more forward thinking countries. Germany is advanced in solar energy. China is working hard to try to eclipse (no pun intended) all other countries in the development of solar power technology. All of Europe is developing an integrated wind power grid. Brazil already has an advanced system of ethanol powered cars and trucks which keeps it from being dependent on ME oil. Of course, none of these ideas would have gotten very far without the partnership of the respective gov'ts in all these countries.

Unfortunately, the modern day conservative mentality is to try to stand in the way of American success if Obama can take any credit for it at all. Some conservatives are like children in that sense. Given the choice between American success under a Democrat administration or American failure as our country loses ground to China, India and others in the new global competition, they choose failure in the hope that will allow them to regain power. Those are signs of shortsighted selfishness and emotional immaturity.

Conservatives have nothing against investing in R&D for alternative solutions....but they are against negative forcing...

Obama shut down the oil wells in the Gulf....offshore California is off limits....Alaska is off limits....nuclear power has been curtailed....we have the biggest coal and natural gas supplies in the world but regulations get in the way.....and on and on...tell me again it's the conservatives trying to keep us dependent on ME oil...

It is wrong in a free society to like force electric cars upon a free people from the top down....as BO is attempting to do...

It is wrong in a free society to cause electricity costs to skyrocket from the top down....as BO is attempting to do...

Let the markets work freely...it's the best way to solve the problems...

 

[Sallow]

It's high time we began a long trudge to catch up with Europe, Japan and China.
It'll be years before we see high speed in operation. They've had it for years already.

Thanks to conservatives, the US is falling behind more forward thinking countries. Germany is advanced in solar energy. China is working hard to try to eclipse (no pun intended) all other countries in the development of solar power technology. All of Europe is developing an integrated wind power grid. Brazil already has an advanced system of ethanol powered cars and trucks which keeps it from being dependent on ME oil. Of course, none of these ideas would have gotten very far without the partnership of the respective gov'ts in all these countries.

Unfortunately, the modern day conservative mentality is to try to stand in the way of American success if Obama can take any credit for it at all. Some conservatives are like children in that sense. Given the choice between American success under a Democrat administration or American failure as our country loses ground to China, India and others in the new global competition, they choose failure in the hope that will allow them to regain power. Those are signs of shortsighted selfishness and emotional immaturity.

Conservatives have nothing against investing in R&D for alternative solutions....but they are against negative forcing...

Obama shut down the oil wells in the Gulf....offshore California is off limits....Alaska is off limits....nuclear power has been curtailed....we have the biggest coal and natural gas supplies in the world but regulations get in the way.....and on and on...tell me again it's the conservatives trying to keep us dependent on ME oil...

It is wrong in a free society to like force electric cars upon a free people from the top down....as BO is attempting to do...

It is wrong in a free society to cause electricity costs to skyrocket from the top down....as BO is attempting to do...

Let the markets work freely...it's the best way to solve the problems...

Conservatives lost this "force on a free society" argument..a long time ago, when their presidents forced agendas down the throats of the American citizens.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Thanks to conservatives, the US is falling behind more forward thinking countries. Germany is advanced in solar energy. China is working hard to try to eclipse (no pun intended) all other countries in the development of solar power technology. All of Europe is developing an integrated wind power grid. Brazil already has an advanced system of ethanol powered cars and trucks which keeps it from being dependent on ME oil. Of course, none of these ideas would have gotten very far without the partnership of the respective gov'ts in all these countries.

Unfortunately, the modern day conservative mentality is to try to stand in the way of American success if Obama can take any credit for it at all. Some conservatives are like children in that sense. Given the choice between American success under a Democrat administration or American failure as our country loses ground to China, India and others in the new global competition, they choose failure in the hope that will allow them to regain power. Those are signs of shortsighted selfishness and emotional immaturity.

Conservatives have nothing against investing in R&D for alternative solutions....but they are against negative forcing...

Obama shut down the oil wells in the Gulf....offshore California is off limits....Alaska is off limits....nuclear power has been curtailed....we have the biggest coal and natural gas supplies in the world but regulations get in the way.....and on and on...tell me again it's the conservatives trying to keep us dependent on ME oil...

It is wrong in a free society to like force electric cars upon a free people from the top down....as BO is attempting to do...

It is wrong in a free society to cause electricity costs to skyrocket from the top down....as BO is attempting to do...

Let the markets work freely...it's the best way to solve the problems...

Conservatives lost this "force on a free society" argument..a long time ago, when their presidents forced agendas down the throats of the American citizens.

Which conservative Presidents forced which agendas against a free society....?

 

[rightwinger]

Of the proposed lines. I just don't see the level of ridership to justify the costs

Tampa- Orlando

Not a major business link. Traffic sucks but what do you do when you get to either Tampa or Orlando? Neither has a significant mass transit system to get you around town. Would be nice for people in Tampa to get to Disney and back, but why spend the money to support Disney/Universal?

San Diego- San Fransisco

This is California and there is not a cultural attraction to Rail travel. Cars are king and most will still prefer either driving or flying from LA to San Fran. Six hour drive/ One hour flight is a 2 1/2 hr train going to draw much from either?

 

[westwall]

high speed rails are a great idea

Having the government build and run them is a bad idea....just look to how they have handled amtrack for proof.

Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it

AMTRAK loses money because Congress forces them to keep unprofitable lines through their districts.

I still don't see how high speed rail other than the Boston- DC corridor can turn a profit.

The infrastructure needed between point A and point B would never be warranted when you can just fly from point A to point B

They do well in Europe. The problem is speed.

There are only two HSR systems worldwide that don't require extensive government subsidies to remain in operation.

 

[Faccops]

Two out of how many, I wonder.