POLL: A Question for Lefties re: Socialism

[Mac1958]

And I'll be happy to ask again: Why does the Right keep pretending that the Left wants us to be like Venezuela?

I don't think they do....what evidence do you have ? Seeing the track record of socialism though history "The right" fears we will become like Venezuela.

What evidence do I have? Pretty much every thread on this board that addresses socialism.

Look it up. You must have "missed" those hundreds of posts.
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[Mac1958]

So far five people/voters have understood this thread.

The rest, well....


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[rightwinger]

I avoid nothing...what question hasn't been answered ?

You put forth those countries as the shining example of socialism opposed to Venezuela.

Republicans say Dems want to turn us in to Venezuela
Democrats say Republicans want to turn us in to Somalia

 

[karpenter]

Socialist Democracies Can't Exist
Without Unfettered Universal Suffrage Democracy
And Court Rulings By Overwhelmingly Prog Jurists
Lots And Lots Of Prog Court Rulings....

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Holy crap. You appear to be the only person here who is completely confused by this thread. I've tried to help, but I'm failing. Not sure what else to tell you.

I am not confused in the least.
Are Canada, Australia, Germany & Finland the models for Social Democracy as opposed to Venezuela which is put forth as the model by detractors ?

I believe that is the Left's position, yes.

And I wonder why so many on the Right can't seem to see that.

Any guesses?
.

And I wonder why so many on the Right can't seem to see that.

Because they follow a consistent stream of aternative media voices that have made this idea a foundation of their political canon. It probably started as a facetious meme on RW media in the 90s as a joke. As broadcasters relized that most consumers never knew any better and those sort of ridiculous ideas garnered higher ratings, they played to that mindset and over time it has come to be accepted as a truth.

Think back to the rise of RW media in the 90s and look at how it has become increasingly more kooky conspiracy than reasoned analysis.

 

[OODA_Loop]

What evidence do I have? Pretty much every thread on this board that addresses socialism.

Look it up. You must have "missed" those hundreds of posts.
.

The right doesn't believe the left WANTS us to be like Venezuela (failed) but the right rather holds up Venezuela as the outcome of socialism to the folly and naivete of the socialist democrat.

 

[Mac1958]

Holy crap. You appear to be the only person here who is completely confused by this thread. I've tried to help, but I'm failing. Not sure what else to tell you.

I am not confused in the least.
Are Canada, Australia, Germany & Finland the models for Social Democracy as opposed to Venezuela which is put forth as the model by detractors ?

I believe that is the Left's position, yes.

And I wonder why so many on the Right can't seem to see that.

Any guesses?
.

And I wonder why so many on the Right can't seem to see that.

Because they follow a consistent stream of aternative media voices that have made this idea a foundation of their political canon. It probably started as a facetious meme on RW media in the 90s as a joke. As broadcasters relized that most consumers never knew any better and those sort of ridiculous ideas garnered higher ratings, they played to that mindset and over time it has come to be accepted as a truth.

Think back to the rise of RW media in the 90s and look at how it has become increasingly more kooky conspiracy than reasoned analysis.

Well, I think that's essentially the case. RW media doesn't make the distinction between actual socialism and social democracy, so their flocks just conflate them in their minds.

It's also possible that they DO know the difference and are just playing standard obtuse partisan politics.

Not sure yet. Maybe some of each.
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[karpenter]

I don't think they do....what evidence do you have ?

Seeing the track record of socialism though history "The right" fears we will become like Venezuela.

Isn't Venezuela And The Collapse Of The Soviet Union
Proof Enough Of Where It Ends ??

Do These People Think It Will Ever Stop
Where They Say 'That's Enough'
Just Because They Personally Decide To Say So ??

 

[WillowTree]

Anyone who wants free tuition, free health care, free food, free basic income and free tampons basically wants America to be just like Venezuela!

 

[Mac1958]

Actually no, I didn't. It's my interpretation of where I think the Left wants us to go.

Maybe you think it's Venezuela, I don't know.
.

When you say Republicans think Venezuela is like Canada, Australia, Germany & Finland the assertion is Venezuela is different/wrong and that those countries are models the US should emulate.

Last try:

What I am actually saying is that (a) the Right keeps conflating pure socialism with democratic socialism, and (b) the Right keeps using Venezuela as the example of what it appears to think the Left is after.

The rest of these constant straw man fantasies you're trying about what you WANT me to be saying exist in your mind, only.
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[OODA_Loop]

Last try:

What I am actually saying is that (a) the Right keeps conflating pure socialism with democratic socialism, and (b) the Right keeps using Venezuela as the example of what it appears to think the Left is after.

The rest of these constant straw man fantasies you're trying about what you WANT me to be saying exist in your mind, only.
.

The right puts forth Venezuela as the effect of socialism when the left puts forth socialism as the solution.

Right leaning DO NOT think the left wants the US TO BE LIKE VENEZUELA.

Venezuela is the failed outcome of socialism.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Last try:

What I am actually saying is that (a) the Right keeps conflating pure socialism with democratic socialism, and (b) the Right keeps using Venezuela as the example of what it appears to think the Left is after.

The rest of these constant straw man fantasies you're trying about what you WANT me to be saying exist in your mind, only.
.

The right puts forth Venezuela as the effect of socialism when the left puts forth socialism as the solution.

Right leaning DO NOT think the left wants the US TO BE LIKE VENEZUELA.

Venezuela is the failed outcome of socialism.

Venezuela is the failed outcome of socialism, and other countries are the failed outcome of capitalism.

Does that mean all capitalism fails because one did?

 

[Mac1958]

Last try:

What I am actually saying is that (a) the Right keeps conflating pure socialism with democratic socialism, and (b) the Right keeps using Venezuela as the example of what it appears to think the Left is after.

The rest of these constant straw man fantasies you're trying about what you WANT me to be saying exist in your mind, only.
.

The right puts forth Venezuela as the effect of socialism when the left puts forth socialism as the solution.

Right leaning DO NOT think the left wants the US TO BE LIKE VENEZUELA.

Venezuela is the failed outcome of socialism.

The Left puts forth democratic socialism as the solution.

They see a difference. I see a difference.

Do you?
.

 

[OODA_Loop]

The Left puts forth democratic socialism as the solution.

They see a difference. I see a difference.

Do you?
.

Government controlling the means of production through regulation is marginally "better" than government owning the means if at all.

Venezuela is Democratic Socialism.

 

[Mac1958]

The Left puts forth democratic socialism as the solution. They see a difference. I see a difference. Do you?

Government controlling the means of production through regulation is marginally "better" than government owning the means if at all.

"Marginally". Good.

So you understand this all this exists on a continuum. That's all I can ask.
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[OODA_Loop]

The Left puts forth democratic socialism as the solution. They see a difference. I see a difference. Do you?

Government controlling the means of production through regulation is marginally "better" than government owning the means if at all.

"Marginally". Good.

So you understand this all this exists on a continuum. That's all I can ask.
.

If at all. Not enough distinction from good ole COMBLOC socialism.

 

[rightwinger]

I don't think they do....what evidence do you have ?

Seeing the track record of socialism though history "The right" fears we will become like Venezuela.

Isn't Venezuela And The Collapse Of The Soviet Union
Proof Enough Of Where It Ends ??

Do These People Think It Will Ever Stop
Where They Say 'That's Enough'
Just Because They Personally Decide To Say So ??

How is China doing?

 

[OODA_Loop]

Venezuela is the failed outcome of socialism, and other countries are the failed outcome of capitalism.

Does that mean all capitalism fails because one did?

Which countries are the failed outcome of capitalism ?

 

[rightwinger]

The Left puts forth democratic socialism as the solution.

They see a difference. I see a difference.

Do you?
.

Government controlling the means of production through regulation is marginally "better" than government owning the means if at all.

Venezuela is Democratic Socialism.

Capitalism fails without regulation

 

[OODA_Loop]

Capitalism fails without regulation

Government regulation of the market instead of natural free market forces create failure and abuse.