Police: 7-year-old fatally shot by father outside gun store in Pennsylvania

OK well as I said, take it up with the State Police :talktothehand: They investigated; you didn't. Denial goes a long way but it's rhetorically worthless.

Yes, they did investigate and never did they find that the gun discharged on it's own...because it can't happen.

Again -- see my last note. Absolute thinking, especially on an incident you didn't see, will drown you in the River Denial. And I believe the PA State Police know their way around guns.



Yes, I agree with you, the Police know their way around guns, and with that in mind, let's look at some fact.

In the November 15, 1993 issue of Newsweek Magazine, George Will reported that police are more than 5 times more likely than a civilian to shoot an innocent person by mistake.

Don't think that just because the police are trained in the use of firearms that they are less likely to kill an innocent person. A University of Chicago Study revealed that in 1993 approximately 700,000 police killed 330 innocent individuals, while approximately 250,000,000 private citizens only killed 30 innocent people. Do the math. That's a per capita rate for the police, of almost 4000 times higher than the population in general. OK, that is a little misleading. Let's just include the 80,000,000 gun owning citizens. Now the police are down to only a 1200 times higher accidental shooting rate than the gun-owning population in general.

That still sounds high. So let's look at it in a different light. According to a study by Newsweek magazine, only 2% of civilian shootings involve an innocent person being shot (not killed). The error rate for police is 11%. What this means is that you are more than 5 times more likely to be accidentally shot by a policeman than by an armed citizen. But, when you consider that citizens shoot and kill at least twice as many criminals as do police every year, it means that, per capita, you are more than 11 times more likely to be accidentally shot by a policeman than by an armed citizen. That is as low as I can get that number.

http://http://actionamerica.org/guns/guns1.shtml

There's more/

http://Search Result: Accidental Discharges - POLICE Magazinewww.policemag.com/list/tag/accidental-discharges.aspxCached



In the Military we don't even call it an "accidental discharge", we call it a "NEGLIGENT discharge" because the gun does not fire by "accident", the SHOOTER, accidently fires the weapon due to negligence, and the police, being around firearms so much, have a pretty high rate of negligent discharges, where they shoot themselves or someone else. This all goes back to the old saying, guns don't kill people, people kill people.



This from a Police officer with over 30yrs esp in law enforcement.
One of the dirty little secrets in the annals of police firearms training is the number of accidental discharges we experience (I prefer the term negligent discharge, because very few of these are a genuine accident). Most of these unintentional rounds are let loose because the gun handler broke one of the safety rules, so a review, of the four basic gun safety rules is in order.

1.All guns are always loaded. (Even if they are not, treat them as if they are.)

2.Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy. (For those who insist “this particular gun is unloaded,” see Rule 1.)

3.Keep your finger off the trigger till your sights are on the target. (This is the Golden Rule. Its violation is directly responsible for about 60 percent of inadvertent discharges.)

4.Identify your target, and what is behind it. (Never shoot at anything that you have not positively identified.) What I mean by the term negligent discharge (ND) is, a round fired from an officer’s weapon that they didn’t intend to fire. Several factors can enter into the causation of a ND, but they almost invariably involve mishandling on the officer’s part.
Most training ranges will eventually see the “late, great leg shot,” as one instructor described it. This type of ND is usually caused by trying to holster a weapon with your finger still on the trigger. Depending on holster design and placement, this error generally causes a grazing wound down the side of the leg, or sometimes a through and through hole in the strong side buttock. Often, the only permanent damage suffered by one of these officers is hearing the; “jumped up and bit me in the butt-tocks” comments from their co-workers -- usually in the Forrest Gump voice. Clearly, this is a violation of safety rule #3 and the solution is to constantly emphasize the need for a straight finger, except when on target. Causes and cures for the negligent discharge



It would be a good idea to educate yourself on a topic PRIOR to bloviating on it. You look less ignorant this way and you can base your opinions on facts, rather then fantasy, misinformation, lack of information, prejudice or just plain ole stupidity.
 
Why take a child to a gun shop to begin with?

Why would you take a child into a car dealership? Both sell items that are potentially dangerous.

Or are you suggesting children should be kept ignorant to all that is potentially dangerous?

I wouldn't take a child to a gun shop or a venomous snake shop. Shit happens as you can see by this story.

By your asinine logic you better not take your kid into a car or truck either, because this tragedy happened IN A TRUCK, not in a gun shop. By that same logic, never take your kid into nature, because 99% of venomous snake bites happen IN NATURE, not in "venomous snake shops. Sheesh, the stupidity of the average liberal is stunning.
 
Again -- see my last note. Absolute thinking, especially on an incident you didn't see, will drown you in the River Denial.

Absolute thinking like being just sure this firearm discharged on its own? What was that about denial?

And I believe the PA State Police know their way around guns.

Perhaps, but they never said nor implied the firearm discharged on its own. They said it was an accident, which it was. They said the father said it discharged as he was laying it down, which it may very well have...because he pulled the trigger.

It must be a heavy burden to know everything, even about events you didn't see. I'm not sure I'd care for that. In any case I'll take the word of a trained state cop on the record over an anonymous internet poster who knows all/sees all.

This tangent just exhibits again my main point: the stretch some people will go to, to preserve, protect and defend Lord Gun Almighty, even at the expense of an innocent kid's life, which becomes just a tool to be stepped over. That priority is the part I find interesting.

But no, Bob Costas, we don't have a "gun culture", nooooo...

Would you listen to this PA State Trooper?
http://Pennsylvania State Police trooper shot himself accidentally ...www.lehighvalleylive.com › Slate Belt News › Breaking News


Now let's work on your English. Here is what the PA State Police reported. "A 7-year-old boy was fatally shot by his father outside a gun shop in western Pennsylvania, according to a Pennsylvania State Police report." They, the State Police, further stated, "All evidence at this point would suggest that this incident is accidental,"


Now let's look closely here, follow me now. The State police, as I bold faced for you, reported that the 7yr old was not shot by the gun, but was SHOT BY HIS FATHER. Now what does this mean? Well to anyone with a basic understanding of English, it would mean that the kids father shot the kid. Now the next statement says, the evidence would suggest it was an accident. Now, for those with a basic understanding of the English language, this would tell us, that the father did NOT INTENTIONALLY shoot his son, but that he ACCIDENTLY shot his son. The State Police make no comments that the gun shot the child, either intentionally or accidently, so again, to people with a basic understanding of the English language, and maybe a 3rd or 4th grade reading comprehension level, we can deduce that the father accidently shot his son. Those who know anything about firearms can also deduce, that this man accidently shot his son due to his own negligence, which he will have to live with forever, by pointing his firearm in an unsafe direction, by not clearing the chamber for transport and almost certainly by keeping his finger on the trigger while putting the gun in the box.
 
OK well as I said, take it up with the State Police :talktothehand: They investigated; you didn't. Denial goes a long way but it's rhetorically worthless.

Yes, they did investigate and never did they find that the gun discharged on it's own...because it can't happen.

Again -- see my last note. Absolute thinking, especially on an incident you didn't see, will drown you in the River Denial. And I believe the PA State Police know their way around guns.

Really?
NYPD: 9 shooting bystander victims hit by police gunfire | Fox News
Did I hand pogo an ass wiping? Yes I did.
 
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The trained officer did not say the gun went off by itself and he didn't say the trigger was accidently pulled. But he doesn't need to. Anyone with an ounce of knowledge about firearms knows that guns do not just magically discharge, someone had to have pulled the trigger.
That is true in 99.999% of examples but there are rare exceptions, such as the revered Remington 700 bolt-action rifle, which is one of the most popular American firearms (I once owned one but sold it back in the seventies). It was recently learned that this rifle is prone to accidental discharge when the safety is engaged and there have been many accidental shootings as the result of this problem. [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jx1_wC2PHwE]DEADLY DEFECT.m2p - YouTube[/ame]

I personally dislike automatic pistols, partly because I've grown accustomed to revolvers and partly because automatics are too mechanical. I had a close buddy in the Marine Corps, a Communicator whose t/o weapon was the .45 Colt 1911, which he accidentally shot himself right through the palm with (probably mishandling it). And while I have no stats to support it I believe the vast majority of firearm accidents occur with automatic pistols. (If I'm wrong, correct me.)

Last, my father fought the Japanese on Guadalcanal. Back then platoon sergeants in some infantry units were armed with Thompson submachine guns. He told us it was common for the Thompson to "cook off," meaning to fire without triggering when the chamber became overheated after releasing a long burst. He said it typically happened when a magazine was discharged and quickly replaced. The gun would just pop off a few rounds without touching the trigger.

I hope for the sanity of the seven year-old's father that the weapon that killed his boy is found to be defective. I can't imagine living with the kind of guilt and self-hatred that man is looking forward to. I believe I probably would kill myself.

I've had a gun discharge on me before it was a semi-auto rifle and after spending three days getting the packing grease cleaned out, I loaded a magazine, slammed it in, pulled back the slide and released it and the weapon fired.

But these events are indeed rare and I have never seen it or heard of it happening with a pistol.

Was it an SKS? They were known, the Yugo ones at least, to have this type of malfunction.
 
That is true in 99.999% of examples but there are rare exceptions, such as the revered Remington 700 bolt-action rifle, which is one of the most popular American firearms (I once owned one but sold it back in the seventies). It was recently learned that this rifle is prone to accidental discharge when the safety is engaged and there have been many accidental shootings as the result of this problem. DEADLY DEFECT.m2p - YouTube

I personally dislike automatic pistols, partly because I've grown accustomed to revolvers and partly because automatics are too mechanical. I had a close buddy in the Marine Corps, a Communicator whose t/o weapon was the .45 Colt 1911, which he accidentally shot himself right through the palm with (probably mishandling it). And while I have no stats to support it I believe the vast majority of firearm accidents occur with automatic pistols. (If I'm wrong, correct me.)

Last, my father fought the Japanese on Guadalcanal. Back then platoon sergeants in some infantry units were armed with Thompson submachine guns. He told us it was common for the Thompson to "cook off," meaning to fire without triggering when the chamber became overheated after releasing a long burst. He said it typically happened when a magazine was discharged and quickly replaced. The gun would just pop off a few rounds without touching the trigger.

I hope for the sanity of the seven year-old's father that the weapon that killed his boy is found to be defective. I can't imagine living with the kind of guilt and self-hatred that man is looking forward to. I believe I probably would kill myself.

I've had a gun discharge on me before it was a semi-auto rifle and after spending three days getting the packing grease cleaned out, I loaded a magazine, slammed it in, pulled back the slide and released it and the weapon fired.

But these events are indeed rare and I have never seen it or heard of it happening with a pistol.

Was it an SKS? They were known, the Yugo ones at least, to have this type of malfunction.

Yes as a matter of fact is was. It happened once more but after I got all the packing grease cleaned out it hasn't happened again.
 
Wrong. Guns "don't just go off", he did not just set it down and it fired. I've been around loaded guns all my life, I have over 2 dozen loaded firearms in my home right now, and I have, never in my life, seen a gun just "go off". EVERY time a gun goes off, it's because a person pulled the trigger, or maybe dropped certain types of guns, but NO gun, just laying there will spontaneously fire itself.

Once again, "I have never seen" is not the same as "it's impossible". The latter is the absolute statement. You cannot prove a negative.

I've never seen an NFL football game. That doesn't mean they don't exist.
 
Wrong. Guns "don't just go off", he did not just set it down and it fired. I've been around loaded guns all my life, I have over 2 dozen loaded firearms in my home right now, and I have, never in my life, seen a gun just "go off". EVERY time a gun goes off, it's because a person pulled the trigger, or maybe dropped certain types of guns, but NO gun, just laying there will spontaneously fire itself.

Once again, "I have never seen" is not the same as "it's impossible". The latter is the absolute statement. You cannot prove a negative.

I've never seen an NFL football game. That doesn't mean they don't exist.

Oh good grief...
 
Please don't turn every tragedy into a political issue lefties. For some perspective, about 2,500 children are run over in their own driveways every year usually by close relatives. About 200 die.
 
I've had a gun discharge on me before it was a semi-auto rifle and after spending three days getting the packing grease cleaned out, I loaded a magazine, slammed it in, pulled back the slide and released it and the weapon fired.

But these events are indeed rare and I have never seen it or heard of it happening with a pistol.

Was it an SKS? They were known, the Yugo ones at least, to have this type of malfunction.

Yes as a matter of fact is was. It happened once more but after I got all the packing grease cleaned out it hasn't happened again.

I thought as much. My dad and I bought one each, Yugo surplus, still packed in the cosmoline and the dealer warned us that it may fire when you throw the bolt the first few times. We broke down the weapons and cleaned them by soaking them in fuel, old USMC trick, dangerous if you're not careful, but very effective.
 
Yes, they did investigate and never did they find that the gun discharged on it's own...because it can't happen.

Again -- see my last note. Absolute thinking, especially on an incident you didn't see, will drown you in the River Denial. And I believe the PA State Police know their way around guns.

Really?
NYPD: 9 shooting bystander victims hit by police gunfire | Fox News
.

Did I hand pogo an ass wiping? Yes I did
 
Again -- see my last note. Absolute thinking, especially on an incident you didn't see, will drown you in the River Denial. And I believe the PA State Police know their way around guns.

Really?
NYPD: 9 shooting bystander victims hit by police gunfire | Fox News
.

Did I hand pogo an ass wiping? Yes I did

You sure did Little Retarded Rebecca..................your tounge was all the way up his ass crack.

But then again, that's par for the course for you.
 
The SKS is an example of a known issue. This situation was not a malfunction.

Correct, and even with this, the person handling the rifle had to throw the bolt, even with this, the gun will not "just go off".
 

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