Planned parenthood?

[catzmeow]

It is not fair for you or I to tell those that are guided by their religion that they should cast that aside.

Of course they don't have to cast their beliefs aside, but they also have to realize that unless they are able to persuade others to join with them and create a majority of people who support their views, they're going to lose these battles, in spite of their objections. The way that many anti-abortion write and talk alienates a lot of folks who might otherwise make common cause with them.

To me, the extremes on either side always want to dictate to everyone else, and they are not every willing to concede anything at all for fear of losing ground.

And, that's why we're in the fucked up mess we're in these days.

Thanks for your posts.

 

[Jarhead]

Absolutely, yes.

I dont mind every dime of it going to PP for the same reasons.

I just dont want my tax dollars to be used illegally....and when an organization that boasts performing 350,000 abortions last year gets 500 million of tax payer dollars...I would expoect them to understand the need for the government to ensure it is staying within the law.

I do not believe in abortion personally, but I believe in the parents right to choose....but I also repsect the law. And I want to ensure those that get tax payer dollars do the same.

Dont you?

Most government contractors/grantees understand that a federal audit is not out of the question, and misuse of federal dollars comes with the threat of federal prison time and massive fines. I don't work for PP, but I'm sure it's not different from other NPO I have worked with...they generally have entirely separate funding streams for federal/other funding. It's the only way to avoid having problems.

You are assuming that all obey the law out of fear of getting caught if they dont. But such is not the case. Many break the law and do all they can to not get caught...and when they do, they usually have an excuse prepared......and as we have seen, many times they blame "lower level employees".

Like Acorn. Infractions were found; lower level employees were blamed...and no one went to jail.

Were the lower level employees truly at fault? Who knows. The government refused to inisist on an investigation.

I bleive an audit is necessary.

Same holds true for EVERY organization that gets tax payer money.

 

[Koios]

Question, why does the goverment help subsidize Planned Parenthood? This is not an attack on PP, as I do think they do a lot of good, just confused as to how/ why the goverment got into the business of paying them to do it.

Because they provide many valuable services other than pregnancy termination.

 

[catzmeow]

I bleive an audit is necessary.

Same holds true for EVERY organization that gets tax payer money.

I have zero problems with audits, ever. I hate it when our collective hard-earned money is misused and wasted, and it happens way too often.

 

[Jarhead]

I bleive an audit is necessary.

Same holds true for EVERY organization that gets tax payer money.

I have zero problems with audits, ever. I hate it when our collective hard-earned money is misused and wasted, and it happens way too often.

That is all I ask of Acorn, Planned Parenthood, and any other entity that gets tax payer dollars and have a chance to use those dollars improperly...or against the law.

But in no way amd I saying to defund Planned Parenthood. If there are infractions, they need to be re-organized...and people shopuld pay the price.

 

[Zander]

Planned Parenthood doesn't need the handout- they do quite well on their own. Their business is obscenely profitable. They are like NPR or PBS- only on the dole so certain people can "feel" good.

 

[catzmeow]

I bleive an audit is necessary.

Same holds true for EVERY organization that gets tax payer money.

I have zero problems with audits, ever. I hate it when our collective hard-earned money is misused and wasted, and it happens way too often.

That is all I ask of Acorn, Planned Parenthood, and any other entity that gets tax payer dollars and have a chance to use those dollars improperly...or against the law.

But in no way amd I saying to defund Planned Parenthood. If there are infractions, they need to be re-organized...and people shopuld pay the price.

I am no particular fan of planned parenthood. i'd be perfectly happy if we set up small health clinics in areas with high rates of poverty and addressed not only pregnancy prevention, but preventive health care as well. There is a huge need.

 

[catzmeow]

Planned Parenthood doesn't need the handout- they do quite well on their own. Their business is obscenely profitable. They are like NPR or PBS- only on the dole so certain people can "feel" good.

If that funding were reallocated elsewhere, perhaps to local units of government, would you be opposed to funding pregnancy prevention (including birth control)?

 

[Katzndogz]

Poverty is not a recurring event. It is not a cycle that repeats. Dependency is. When the immigrants came here they were very poor, most having nothing but the clothing they wore. But their children did better, and the children of those children did better. In fact, most of the immigrants who came initially worked their way out of poverty. We are now in our third generation of government dependents who are the grandchildren of government dependents. What's worse is that the size and scope of government dependency requires an effort on the part of those who aren't government dependents that puts them in a poverty (of whatever level) that they don't deserve.

Women who have been raised in this paternalistic culture don't really deserve all the blame. They are told that they have no choice but to engage in promiscuity. They must get pregnant and then it's someone else's fault if they are. They are mindless, emotionless sex drones that cannot be educated out of the necessity to satisfy a biological impetus.

But, you take the woman who is raised to think better of herself than being a toilet for some man's cum, she is able to delay pregnancy. On her own. Maybe she's just more choosy about who she spreads her legs for. Maybe she picks men that bring their own birth control to the bed-table. We not only have a two-tier society of takers and makers, we have two-tiers of the female substrata of those who produce and those who are animals compelled to rut without even looking back to tell you what color his eyes are. If that is true and there are women who have no choices in their lives but to repeat the cycle of dependency, we owe it to the nation to treat them just like the animals they are. Responsible pet owners neuter their pets. Feral animals are kept where they are prevented from propagating and neutered before being returned to their habitat. Accept reality, it is time to neuter.

 

[Katzndogz]

Planned Parenthood doesn't need the handout- they do quite well on their own. Their business is obscenely profitable. They are like NPR or PBS- only on the dole so certain people can "feel" good.

If that funding were reallocated elsewhere, perhaps to local units of government, would you be opposed to funding pregnancy prevention (including birth control)?

No one should be opposed to permanent birth control. You pay for it only once. There are implants good for five years. It's reasonable to pay only once every five years. If the woman can demonstrate that she is responsible and no longer a dependent, remove the now ineffective implant.

That's reasonable. Not shelling out every month on pills that are forgotten or condoms no one will use.

 

[g5000]

I just love liberal "values". You abhor morality, but have "values" which hold human life hostage. Pay for my contraception or I will fuck my brains out and make a baby that I will try to force all of you to pay much more to take care of.

Emotional blackmail. Nice. Very nice.

This really encourages personal responsibility. Gimme gimme gimme, and make that guy over there pay for it...or else.

I don't abhor morality but having worked with the offspring of unplanned and teenage pregnancies for the past 21 years, I have to say that preventing pregnancy is a lot cheaper than the alternative.

The republicans were smart when they joined with the democrats and allocated funding for birth control. It's just common sense.

Some people lack self control. Just say no doesn't work for everyone, and never did. I'm a result of a 16 year old girl who had sex with her 17 year old boyfriend and got pregnant (I'm 47 years old).

As a society, we are far better off preventing as many of these unplanned pregnancies to people who lack self control and aren't prepared to parent as we possibly can.

Let me put it like this...if we can't trust these girls to manage to prevent pregnancy on their own, how can we trust these girls to parent a child? And, the fact is that even if abortion were outlawed tomorrow, many of these girls would keep their children and raise them in poverty and the cycle would continue to repeat and has continued to repeat for hundreds of years. If you were to look at crime patterns in a particular city and notate the family names of the individuals involved for a hundred years, you'd find that there is a recurring pattern that keeps repeating over and over and over again, particularly in high poverty areas with high rates of crime. Kids having kids who then have kids who then have kids, and these kids aren't parented properly ever, and they pass their dysfunction along to their own offspring in turn.

Pragmatically speaking, we all have a vested interest in preventing teenage and unplanned pregnancies. We pay for them in a hundred different ways currently in our society, from increased expenses in our schools to our ever growing prison industry. It's just cheaper and more effective, in the long run, to give out birth control and stop moralizing about it.

You've had it your way for decades and single motherhood has skyrocketed. Clearly, this emotional blackmail shit is not working.

The problems is NOT a lack of access to birth control. There is plenty of access.

The problem is that we have indoctrinated our society with the comforting knowledge that they will not be held accountable for their actions. If you fuck up, someone else will be forced to pay the price.

Women have plenty of access to birth control and yet half of all abortions are due to them not using any birth control whatsoever. They are using abortion as birth control.

And we teach them that if they fuck their brains out and get pregnant and have the kid, everyone else will pay the cost.


One third of all medically uninsured Americans are high school dropouts. And so what do we do about that? We pay for their insurance for them because they fucked up!

Is it really a mystery why government dependency keeps growing? You want to force the rest of us to give irresponsible people MORE money?

 

[Jarhead]

Planned Parenthood doesn't need the handout- they do quite well on their own. Their business is obscenely profitable. They are like NPR or PBS- only on the dole so certain people can "feel" good.

If that funding were reallocated elsewhere, perhaps to local units of government, would you be opposed to funding pregnancy prevention (including birth control)?

No one should be opposed to permanent birth control. You pay for it only once. There are implants good for five years. It's reasonable to pay only once every five years. If the woman can demonstrate that she is responsible and no longer a dependent, remove the now ineffective implant.

That's reasonable. Not shelling out every month on pills that are forgotten or condoms no one will use.

whoa....are you suggesting government mandated brth control?

 

[Jarhead]

I just love liberal "values". You abhor morality, but have "values" which hold human life hostage. Pay for my contraception or I will fuck my brains out and make a baby that I will try to force all of you to pay much more to take care of.

Emotional blackmail. Nice. Very nice.

This really encourages personal responsibility. Gimme gimme gimme, and make that guy over there pay for it...or else.

I don't abhor morality but having worked with the offspring of unplanned and teenage pregnancies for the past 21 years, I have to say that preventing pregnancy is a lot cheaper than the alternative.

The republicans were smart when they joined with the democrats and allocated funding for birth control. It's just common sense.

Some people lack self control. Just say no doesn't work for everyone, and never did. I'm a result of a 16 year old girl who had sex with her 17 year old boyfriend and got pregnant (I'm 47 years old).

As a society, we are far better off preventing as many of these unplanned pregnancies to people who lack self control and aren't prepared to parent as we possibly can.

Let me put it like this...if we can't trust these girls to manage to prevent pregnancy on their own, how can we trust these girls to parent a child? And, the fact is that even if abortion were outlawed tomorrow, many of these girls would keep their children and raise them in poverty and the cycle would continue to repeat and has continued to repeat for hundreds of years. If you were to look at crime patterns in a particular city and notate the family names of the individuals involved for a hundred years, you'd find that there is a recurring pattern that keeps repeating over and over and over again, particularly in high poverty areas with high rates of crime. Kids having kids who then have kids who then have kids, and these kids aren't parented properly ever, and they pass their dysfunction along to their own offspring in turn.

Pragmatically speaking, we all have a vested interest in preventing teenage and unplanned pregnancies. We pay for them in a hundred different ways currently in our society, from increased expenses in our schools to our ever growing prison industry. It's just cheaper and more effective, in the long run, to give out birth control and stop moralizing about it.

You've had it your way for decades and single motherhood has skyrocketed. Clearly, this emotional blackmail shit is not working.

The problems is NOT a lack of access to birth control. There is plenty of access.

The problem is that we have indoctrinated our society with the comforting knowledge that they will not be held accountable for their actions. If you fuck up, someone else will be forced to pay the price.

Women have plenty of access to birth control and yet half of all abortions are due to them not using any birth control whatsoever. They are using abortion as birth control.

And we teach them that if they fuck their brains out and get pregnant and have the kid, everyone else will pay the cost.


One third of all medically uninsured Americans are high school dropouts. And so what do we do about that? We pay for their insurance for them because they fucked up!

Is it really a mystery why government dependency keeps growing? You want to force the rest of us to give irresponsible people MORE money?

if we take out the sarcasm and anger from your post, I agree with much of what you say.

Yes, we as a society have made it so easy to "get out of trouble" that we tend to not be nearly as careful as we should be.

So what do we do?

Your solution is a sound one. Stop making it easy for individuals to get out of trouble.

But at what cost?

Suffering of many children that were unwanted to begin with?

Perhaps....for one generation, children will have to suffer the consequences of their parents actions.

Are we as a society prepared to have an entire genmeration of children suffer?

Truth is....for us to ulitmately eliminate our debt, we as a society must have one generation of ALL aged citizens suffer...End all entitlements, a generation will suffer, but future generations will learn how to live with personal respoinsibility..as many of us already do.

But as you see, we are way too weak a people to allow ourselves to suffer for our future children and grandchildren...

SO how in the hell do you think we can set policies that will make a generation of unborn children suffer?

 

[earlycuyler]

Speaking of the devil herself. Posts and is gone in 60 seconds. Give her 90 more seconds and she'll log back in. Do a drive-by and log out just as quickly.

Better shoot her a pm telling her not to PM you huh ?

 

[catzmeow]

You've had it your way for decades and single motherhood has skyrocketed. Clearly, this emotional blackmail shit is not working.

Actually, you're mistaken. Teen pregnancy rates have fallen to their lowest rate in 3 decades.

Cite 1: http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/USTPtrends.pdf

Data from the CDC suggests that this is largely due to use of birth control pills, which are more effective at preventing pregnancies.

Cite 2: Sexual Experience and Contraceptive Use Among Female Teens — United States, 1995, 2002, and 2006–2010

The problems is NOT a lack of access to birth control. There is plenty of access.

You're right...women of moderate income, such as your wife and daughter, have plenty of access to birth control pills. Poor women don't.

Unsurprisingly, the highest rates of unplanned pregnancy are for poor women.

The problem is that we have indoctrinated our society with the comforting knowledge that they will not be held accountable for their actions. If you fuck up, someone else will be forced to pay the price.

Actually, we've succeeded in educating a large segment of our society on being responsible for their sexual health. That's why teen pregnancies have fallen by 40% since 1990. (see cite #1). Abortions by teens have fallen by 50% since 1990 (see cite #1).

But, in many areas, we have pockets of poverty where the rate of unplanned pregnancies remains extremely high (so high, in fact, that it skews the overall statistics which show unplanned pregnancies decreasing by women above the poverty line).

In those areas, I think we actually need to expand access to birth control services, because it works.

The Contraceptive Choice Project enrolled 9,256 women and adolescents in the St. Louis area between 2007 and 2011. Participants were 14-45 years of age, at risk for unintended pregnancy, and willing to start a new contraceptive method.

Participants had their choice of birth control methods, ranging from long-acting forms like IUDs and implants to shorter-acting methods such as birth control pills, patches and rings.

The women were counseled about the different methods, including their effectiveness, risks and benefits. The extremely low failure rate (less than 1 percent) of IUDs and implants over that of shorter-acting forms (8 percent to 10 percent) was emphasized. In all, about 75 percent of women in the study chose IUDs or implants.

From 2008 to 2010, annual abortion rates among study participants ranged from 4.4 to 7.5 per 1,000 women. This is a substantial drop (62 percent to 78 percent) over the national rate of 19.6 abortions per 1,000 women in 2008, the latest year for which figures are available.

The lower abortion rates among CHOICE participants also is considerably less than the rates in St. Louis city and county, which ranged from 13.4 to 17 per 1,000 women, for the same years.

Among girls ages 15-19 who had access to free birth control provided in the study, the annual birth rate was 6.3 per 1,000, far below the U.S. rate of 34.3 per 1,000 for girls the same age.

http://esciencenews.com/articles/2012/10/04/abortion.rates.plummet.with.free.birth.control

Girls who don't get pregnant are more likely to finish high school and obtain a higher level of education and employment after college. If you want to reduce the number of people who are getting free insurance because they're unemployed high school drop outs, I'd recommend funding free birth control.

 

[American_Jihad]

Planned Parenhood Got $542 Million in Gov Money, or $1,622 for Every Abortion​

January 10, 2013
By Daniel Greenfield

That apparently comes out to 333,964 abortions for 542 million dollars in government money. That’s down from 329,445 abortions and 585 million dollars in government money, proving that unlike most things that Obama funds, Planned Parenthood can actually do more with less money. Unfortunately the thing that they can do more of is kill 4,519 more babies.

Of all the things that Obama Inc. has funded, Green Energy, Moderate Islam, Shovel Ready Projects, the only one that functions efficiently is the one that kills babies.

...

Planned Parenhood Got $542 Million in Gov Money, or $1,622 for Every Abortion

 

[thanatos144]

No government funding should ever go to a place that kills unborn babies. I should not be forced to subsidize murder.

Would you have a moral objection to this pot of funding going directly to county health departments to fund pregnancy prevention measures such as classes, counseling, birth control pills, condoms, IUDs, etc., but not abortions?

Its a against the law for the government to fund abortion......Why is that so hard for you to understand? You are so worried that less babies will be killed each year that you ignore the obvious.

 

[tooAlive]

The health of the nation's people is a vital national interest. The federal government has the right and the justification to take measures that work towards protecting, maintaining, improving the health of the people.

No doubt, but forcing people into a healthcare plan they don't want to be in is another story.

We force people to do things in the national interest all the time.

Said Stalin, Lenin, Castro, Tse-Tung, Hitler, ect..

 

[thanatos144]

We are giving money to a organization that has been shown will lie about the age of a women getting a abortion, has been shown to not inform police of a crime of statutory rape AS LAW REQUIRES, and one who gladly helps pimps abuse women and keep it quite....Now knowing all that we are suppose to believe them that NONE of the half a BILLION dollars given to them didn't fund abortion?


How fucking gullible are you?

 

[catzmeow]

No government funding should ever go to a place that kills unborn babies. I should not be forced to subsidize murder.

Would you have a moral objection to this pot of funding going directly to county health departments to fund pregnancy prevention measures such as classes, counseling, birth control pills, condoms, IUDs, etc., but not abortions?

Its a against the law for the government to fund abortion......Why is that so hard for you to understand? You are so worried that less babies will be killed each year that you ignore the obvious.

Where did I mention abortion, Thanatos?