Permanent War?: Has The Military Industrial Complex Finally Achieved Its Goal?

[paulitician]

I'm just interesting in hearing what others think about this question. It does seem to me that we are in a permanent state of War. I don't believe there are any Citizens left who actually remember a time when we weren't bombing and at War with someone. So,has the Military Industrial Complex finally achieved its goal of permanent War?

 

[paulitician]

Ron Paul: Perpetual War is Expensive...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGeC5fjpHUo]Perpetual War is Expensive! Jan 20 2011 - YouTube[/ame]

 

[paulitician]

'Perpetual War for Perpetual Peace.' Chilling but incredibly accurate words from Dr. Paul.

 

[BOBO]

...this...

Don't Underestimate Ron Paul in Iowa - Yahoo! News

Notice the 'suggestions' listed below that are taken from the article above...

"...Texas congressman does not have the staying power to be a national candidate."(he's polling 2nd & he lacks staying power???)

"...I WOULD BE SHOCKED IF HE(Paul) DID NOT WIN THE CAUCUSES."(so would I!)

"Experts(who R these experts???) don't think he(Paul) has the organization(WOW!) or the ability to reach out past Libertarian-leaning voters to the Republican mainstream(Really!?)

"When it's all said & done, Paul will not be the Republican nominee next year."(How does he know???).


Then this bullshit

Why Iowa

...like who the phuk is rep Steve King??? He makes it out that if one does not "court" Steve King that ones Iowa campaign is dead meat! Really??? King is an egotistical old man that thinks his importance is messianic in scope. King is a fat azzed status quo fence sitting politician. Ron's primary support base is the under 30 constituency that is getting handed the baby boomers debt. Those under 30 constituency could give a rip about Steve King. To answer your question... Yes the MIC has reached it's goal, as has the professional politicians.
It's because of these 'goals' & the debt that comes with it that Ron Paul may well pull off a major upset. The status quo has failed to realize that Ron Paul has pulled off an engineering marvel, for Ron is reaching Repubs, Libertarians, Demmies, independents & owns the under 30 constituency as well as 25% of the military vote. The MIC fears Ron as they see their perpetual war machine about to be terminated.

I'm just interesting in hearing what others think about this question. It does seem to me that we are in a permanent state of War. I don't believe there are any Citizens left who actually remember a time when we weren't bombing and at War with someone. So,has the Military Industrial Complex finally achieved its goal of permanent War?

 

[BluePhantom]

I'm just interesting in hearing what others think about this question. It does seem to me that we are in a permanent state of War. I don't believe there are any Citizens left who actually remember a time when we weren't bombing and at War with someone. So,has the Military Industrial Complex finally achieved its goal of permanent War?

Take a look at American history....from day one it's been very rare that we are not at war with someone.

 

[paulitician]

I'm just interesting in hearing what others think about this question. It does seem to me that we are in a permanent state of War. I don't believe there are any Citizens left who actually remember a time when we weren't bombing and at War with someone. So,has the Military Industrial Complex finally achieved its goal of permanent War?

Take a look at American history....from day one it's been very rare that we are not at war with someone.

True.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Permanent War?: Has The Military Industrial Complex Finally Achieved Its Goal?

Yes, that’s the purpose of the ‘war on terror’ – to be forever at war and have a permanent ‘enemy.’ Hence the vilification of Islam and Muslims.

 

[paulitician]

Permanent War?: Has The Military Industrial Complex Finally Achieved Its Goal?

Yes, that’s the purpose of the ‘war on terror’ – to be forever at war and have a permanent ‘enemy.’ Hence the vilification of Islam and Muslims.

Yea i used to laugh when people talked about the Military Industrial Complex always creating another Boogeyman for us to fear. Well i don't laugh anymore. Because it's true. There will always be that Boogeyman for us to fear. That's the only way for them to establish permanent War.

 

[Dragon]

I'm just interesting in hearing what others think about this question. It does seem to me that we are in a permanent state of War. I don't believe there are any Citizens left who actually remember a time when we weren't bombing and at War with someone. So,has the Military Industrial Complex finally achieved its goal of permanent War?

Take a look at American history....from day one it's been very rare that we are not at war with someone.

That's actually not true. You can start either from the Declaration of Independence or from the Constitution; I'm going to do the latter, but if you do the former add seven years of Revolutionary War. I'll include only declared wars plus the Civil War. A "declaration of war" need not bear that title or include that specific language; e.g. the Tonkin Gulf Resolution was a declaration of war, as were the Congressional resolutions authorizing war in Afghanistan and Iraq. Also, a war that was declared in any phase I have included significant military involvement before and after the "official" war, e.g. the Philippine war following the peace treaty with Spain and the Vietnam War prior to Tonkin Gulf. The Civil War was not a declared war but it was also our most costly in terms of casualties by far, so it has to be included.

Constitution ratified 1789 - 1812; peace 23 years

War of 1812 - 1814 war 2 years

1814-1846 peace 32 years

U.S. - Mexican War 1846-1848 war 2 years

1848-1861 peace 13 years

1861-1865 American Civil War war 4 years

1865-1898 peace 33 years

1898-1902 Spanish American War/Philippine War war 4 years

1902-1917 peace 15 years

1917-1918 World War I war 1 year

1918-1941 peace 23 years

1941-1945 World War II war 4 years

1945-1950 peace 5 years

1950-1953 Korean War war 3 years

1953-1957 peace 4 years

1957-1973 Vietnam War war 16 years

1973-1991 peace 18 years

1990-1991 Gulf War war 1 year

1991-2001 peace 10 years

2001-present Afghan war/Iraq war war 10 years (and counting)

Prior to World War II (including World War II iteslf): 139 years of peace, 17 years of war

After World War II: 47 years of peace, 30 years of war.

Prior to and during World War II, we were at war 11% of the time. After World War II, we have been at war 39% of the time. Becoming a superpower has more than tripled our tendency to be at war.

It remains to be seen whether we will have "perpetual war" as a result of the "War on Terror." If the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan actually do end soon without a new war starting (e.g. in Iran) then the answer will be no. But the problem of being a superpower remains significant in terms of war and peace.

I couldn't vote in the poll because I honestly don't know the answer.

 

[paulitician]

We've been bombing & killing for at least the last 70yrs. straight. Will it ever end? Doesn't look like it.

 

[R.C. Christian]

It's obvious that years after the civil war and before WWI were some of the best in U.S. history. Innovation ruled the day. The American model for trans continental railroads and business were a threat to the old empires like the filthy British and their maritime empire of enslavement, theft, and imperialism. But since then the U.S. has been a steaming pile of imperialist shit and not one bit of it was worth the effort.

 

[Douger]

It's just business.
Johnny Depp just bought an island. Google it, take your Prozac, STFU and pay your taxes.

 

[paulitician]

It's just business.
Johnny Depp just bought an island. Google it, take your Prozac, STFU and pay your taxes.

Sadly that does about sum it up.

 

[Dragon]

It's obvious that years after the civil war and before WWI were some of the best in U.S. history.

In terms of war and peace, yes. In other ways, however . . .

Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

People's Party (United States) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Panic of 1873 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Panic of 1893 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Industrial Workers of the World - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Everett massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Gilded Age - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Maybe not so much.

 

[martybegan]

Permanent War?: Has The Military Industrial Complex Finally Achieved Its Goal?

Yes, that’s the purpose of the ‘war on terror’ – to be forever at war and have a permanent ‘enemy.’ Hence the vilification of Islam and Muslims.

Yea i used to laugh when people talked about the Military Industrial Complex always creating another Boogeyman for us to fear. Well i don't laugh anymore. Because it's true. There will always be that Boogeyman for us to fear. That's the only way for them to establish permanent War.

lets look at it from another perspective. For most of human history the most distance an army could travel was about 20 miles in a day. The peak was actually the romans, due to thier road netwwork, which wasnt met until the late napoleonic era. From the fall of the Roman Empire Europe was basically in a state of perpetual war as well, the difference is that while the fighting was just as bad, it had no reach. If you were a weeks march from the war area, you were safe for a week. Once winter hit, armies had to stop, and you were safe once again. Also war was fought by a mix of warrior castes, professional soldiers, and well off landholders. Armies were small, and fights were usually desicive.

once america came around, we had a benefit no other nation had. We had two oceans that were basically impassible unless you had established bases already in the hemisphere, and even then defeating an equally armed opponent was a tricky proposition. The original conquests over the native inhabitants were made simple due to the 1500 year technoligical difference continuous European war gave the invaders. America kept this barrier until 1949, once the Soviets were able to dentonate a nuke. Now the oceanic shield is not worth as much as it used to be.

You also have to add in the materials a modern society needs to function. Even forgetting about Petroleum, there are a myriad of strategic minerals that we need to produce our modern convinences, that are not found in large quantities in our country. To allow those products to reach us, we have to assure a mostly stable planet, so trade can reach us.

I know this is a bit of a ramble, but consider that if we were to go 100% isolationist, either someone else would take over our hegemony, or even worse no one would. You would have governments collapsing, countries under the thumb of god knows what, and a probable end to international trade. An even worse thought would be a hegemony by someone who doesnt like us.

 

[paulitician]

Those Ron Paul words really were very chilling..."Pepetual War for Perpetual Peace." There has to be permanent war to somehow achieve permanent peace. What a terrifying and bizarre concept. But we are currently living through that Military Industrial Complex agenda.

 

[Dragon]

They weren't Paul's words, they were Gore Vidal's.

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Perpetual-War-Peace-How-Hated/dp/156025405X]Amazon.com: Perpetual War for Perpetual Peace: How We Got to Be So Hated (9781560254058): Gore Vidal: Books[/ame]

 

[Steelplate]

I'm just interesting in hearing what others think about this question. It does seem to me that we are in a permanent state of War. I don't believe there are any Citizens left who actually remember a time when we weren't bombing and at War with someone. So,has the Military Industrial Complex finally achieved its goal of permanent War?

Take a look at American history....from day one it's been very rare that we are not at war with someone.

That's actually not true. You can start either from the Declaration of Independence or from the Constitution; I'm going to do the latter, but if you do the former add seven years of Revolutionary War. I'll include only declared wars plus the Civil War. A "declaration of war" need not bear that title or include that specific language; e.g. the Tonkin Gulf Resolution was a declaration of war, as were the Congressional resolutions authorizing war in Afghanistan and Iraq. Also, a war that was declared in any phase I have included significant military involvement before and after the "official" war, e.g. the Philippine war following the peace treaty with Spain and the Vietnam War prior to Tonkin Gulf. The Civil War was not a declared war but it was also our most costly in terms of casualties by far, so it has to be included.

Constitution ratified 1789 - 1812; peace 23 years

War of 1812 - 1814 war 2 years

1814-1846 peace 32 years

U.S. - Mexican War 1846-1848 war 2 years

1848-1861 peace 13 years

1861-1865 American Civil War war 4 years

1865-1898 peace 33 years

1898-1902 Spanish American War/Philippine War war 4 years

1902-1917 peace 15 years

1917-1918 World War I war 1 year

1918-1941 peace 23 years

1941-1945 World War II war 4 years

1945-1950 peace 5 years

1950-1953 Korean War war 3 years

1953-1957 peace 4 years

1957-1973 Vietnam War war 16 years

1973-1991 peace 18 years

1990-1991 Gulf War war 1 year

1991-2001 peace 10 years

2001-present Afghan war/Iraq war war 10 years (and counting)

Prior to World War II (including World War II iteslf): 139 years of peace, 17 years of war

After World War II: 47 years of peace, 30 years of war.

Prior to and during World War II, we were at war 11% of the time. After World War II, we have been at war 39% of the time. Becoming a superpower has more than tripled our tendency to be at war.

It remains to be seen whether we will have "perpetual war" as a result of the "War on Terror." If the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan actually do end soon without a new war starting (e.g. in Iran) then the answer will be no. But the problem of being a superpower remains significant in terms of war and peace.

I couldn't vote in the poll because I honestly don't know the answer.

There are plenty of "wars" you left out.. like the military actions used to seize the country from Native Americans, The "war" on drugs, etc.... When you factor those "unannounced" wars... we've have a very hawkish history.

EDIT: sorry re-read your post.. you explained that... my bad.

 

[BluePhantom]

It remains to be seen whether we will have "perpetual war" as a result of the "War on Terror." If the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan actually do end soon without a new war starting (e.g. in Iran) then the answer will be no. But the problem of being a superpower remains significant in terms of war and peace.

I couldn't vote in the poll because I honestly don't know the answer.

If you are going to use a declaration of war as the measuring stick then yes you would be correct. If you are going to include all the times we go throttle the hell out of someone then you will have to add a whole lot to that list. I have broken it down once already:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/history/195040-are-republicans-really-the-war-mongers-the-numbers-say-no-2.html

 

[paulitician]

I'm not even sure how Americans would cope with real Peace. War is all they've ever known. It would be so alien to them. I mean imagine living in a time not bombing & killing anyone? Hard to imagine that huh?