Perfect example for 2nd amendment rights.

[2aguy]

Westwall had an idea in a thread a couple days ago....he said it can already be done...a toll free number where you run the buyers name and drivers license number.....they tell you if they have felony convictions or outstanding warrants....

Done....

No records, no registration, and it costs nothing, and is easy and doesn't target law abiding gun owners....

I’m fine with a quick and easy process. How do you feel about a waiting period to help reduce impulse/emotional buys which could be followed by crimes.

Why delay the purchase by those not intending to commit a crime because someone may?

I guess we could also delay the rental of trucks as well because a very small number might want to use them to blow up federal buildings?

Apples and oranges in my opinion. Putting a buffer in the time frame of purchasing a gun eliminates the impulse actions that somebody in an emotional state may go through, give them some time to cool off. I don’t see it as a huge inconvienenve on law abiding citizens either. There are plenty of products that we have to wait for. Hell, Amazon prime even takes two days to deliver and that’s lightning fast!

A huge SO WHAT? So the theory is that someone hell bent on murder, the worst possible thing a human can do to another human, will go to a gun shop to buy the ONLY TOOL he could possibly use to MURDER?

See the problem to start with?

Somebody hell bent on murder is likely going to achieve it one way or another. In other cases you might have somebody going through an emotional episode. Could be a domestic altercation, could be a firing from the work place, maybe a spouse was found cheating, or their dog just died who knows. But if a person is in an emotional state and wants to inflict harm on themself or another then a gun is the most efficient and destructive tool to use so doing something to prevent emotional purchases could prevent death. It doesn’t necessarily have to be a waiting period, that’s just one idea. The point is to do our best to make sure people who buy and own weapons are responsible, law abiding citizens and of sound mind. Can we at least agree on that last point?

Sure, we should try to stop felons and the mentally ill from getting guns. and we already have all the processes in place to do this, no new ones are needed. What do we need? We need the police to follow through and actually apply the ones we already have.

We do not need to limit access to guns by law abiding people based on the extremely rare mass public shooting. In fact, the thing driving these mass public shootings are the democrat gun free zones we have created which make sure that those emotionally disturbed people you mention, have an easy, unarmed target.

Since all research shows that armed responses to mass shooters drives them away and stops them when they happen, we should focus on getting rid of democrat gun free zones.

And to this point...nothing proposed achieves what you want. Not raising the age to buy rifles, magazine limits or waiting periods.

 

[Slade3200]

Apples and oranges in my opinion. Putting a buffer in the time frame of purchasing a gun eliminates the impulse actions that somebody in an emotional state may go through, give them some time to cool off. I don’t see it as a huge inconvienenve on law abiding citizens either. There are plenty of products that we have to wait for. Hell, Amazon prime even takes two days to deliver and that’s lightning fast!

A huge SO WHAT? So the theory is that someone hell bent on murder, the worst possible thing a human can do to another human, will go to a gun shop to buy the ONLY TOOL he could possibly use to MURDER?

See the problem to start with?

Somebody hell bent on murder is likely going to achieve it one way or another. In other cases you might have somebody going through an emotional episode. Could be a domestic altercation, could be a firing from the work place, maybe a spouse was found cheating, or their dog just died who knows. But if a person is in an emotional state and wants to inflict harm on themself or another then a gun is the most efficient and destructive tool to use so doing something to prevent emotional purchases could prevent death. It doesn’t necessarily have to be a waiting period, that’s just one idea. The point is to do our best to make sure people who buy and own weapons are responsible, law abiding citizens and of sound mind. Can we at least agree on that last point?

No, you are simply showing bias. There are countless articles on how an individual murdered his target without the use of a gun. Each one of those were 100% efficient. Yet you think you end this by delaying it? That's not even close to rational thought.

Did you read my statement Pops? How in the world did you get that I think we would end murder by preventing emotional gun purchases? Come back to earth. Here, since you are acting like a child I’ll even copy the first line of my last statement again for you to read... really let this soak in...

“Somebody hell bent on murder is likely going to achieve it one way or another.“

So tell me how after reading those words from my last statement, how can you possibly imply that I’m saying we could end impulse murder by delaying gun purchases. I literally said the opposite of that. Please explain your logic.

Then why the questions about delaying the purchase. To what ends?

A solution to a non existent problem.

I explained that pretty clearly in my original post

 

[2aguy]

Now read this carefully.

It's OK to follow along with your finger on the screen

And it's even all right to move your lips while you read.

You asked me if I agree with the machine gun restrictions

I said I don't think the additional permit or the additional taxes are necessary and that anyone who can legally buy a firearm should be able to buy a fully automatic weapon.


We can surmise from this that since the current regulations require both the additional permit and tax as well as passing the background check that I disagree with 2 points of the current law regarding automatic weapons but not all the regulations

Ergo ( that means therefore) One can see the answer to your question was not simply a yes or no

Did you understand that or should I use smaller words?

That’s great, thanks you. I wish you would have simply said that a day ago instead of going round about for pages and pages of posts.

So let’s take away the additional permit and the taxes and look at what is needed for somebody to legally purchase a firearm, which you apparently agree with. What process to determine somebodies legality to sell or purchase a gun to you agree with?

I’m asking with honest intent of learning what your position is BTW. Not trying to lay bait.

Westwall had an idea in a thread a couple days ago....he said it can already be done...a toll free number where you run the buyers name and drivers license number.....they tell you if they have felony convictions or outstanding warrants....

Done....

No records, no registration, and it costs nothing, and is easy and doesn't target law abiding gun owners....

I’m fine with a quick and easy process. How do you feel about a waiting period to help reduce impulse/emotional buys which could be followed by crimes.

Why delay the purchase by those not intending to commit a crime because someone may?

I guess we could also delay the rental of trucks as well because a very small number might want to use them to blow up federal buildings?

Apples and oranges in my opinion. Putting a buffer in the time frame of purchasing a gun eliminates the impulse actions that somebody in an emotional state may go through, give them some time to cool off. I don’t see it as a huge inconvienenve on law abiding citizens either. There are plenty of products that we have to wait for. Hell, Amazon prime even takes two days to deliver and that’s lightning fast!

Sorry...research doesn't show that waiting periods work.....do you realize that actual mass shooters plan their attacks 6 months to 2 years in advance? So a few days waiting period is simply Security Theater. Criminals will wait for their straw buyer to get the gun, then use that gun for crime..

But we have actual cases of women who are being stalked being denied guns because of waiting periods and May Issue rules in various states....and then being murdered while they are waiting to get their guns....

Should you be required to wait 3 days before you vote, before you can publish a political tract?

 

[Slade3200]

I’m fine with a quick and easy process. How do you feel about a waiting period to help reduce impulse/emotional buys which could be followed by crimes.

Why delay the purchase by those not intending to commit a crime because someone may?

I guess we could also delay the rental of trucks as well because a very small number might want to use them to blow up federal buildings?

Apples and oranges in my opinion. Putting a buffer in the time frame of purchasing a gun eliminates the impulse actions that somebody in an emotional state may go through, give them some time to cool off. I don’t see it as a huge inconvienenve on law abiding citizens either. There are plenty of products that we have to wait for. Hell, Amazon prime even takes two days to deliver and that’s lightning fast!

A huge SO WHAT? So the theory is that someone hell bent on murder, the worst possible thing a human can do to another human, will go to a gun shop to buy the ONLY TOOL he could possibly use to MURDER?

See the problem to start with?

Somebody hell bent on murder is likely going to achieve it one way or another. In other cases you might have somebody going through an emotional episode. Could be a domestic altercation, could be a firing from the work place, maybe a spouse was found cheating, or their dog just died who knows. But if a person is in an emotional state and wants to inflict harm on themself or another then a gun is the most efficient and destructive tool to use so doing something to prevent emotional purchases could prevent death. It doesn’t necessarily have to be a waiting period, that’s just one idea. The point is to do our best to make sure people who buy and own weapons are responsible, law abiding citizens and of sound mind. Can we at least agree on that last point?

Sure, we should try to stop felons and the mentally ill from getting guns. and we already have all the processes in place to do this, no new ones are needed. What do we need? We need the police to follow through and actually apply the ones we already have.

We do not need to limit access to guns by law abiding people based on the extremely rare mass public shooting. In fact, the thing driving these mass public shootings are the democrat gun free zones we have created which make sure that those emotionally disturbed people you mention, have an easy, unarmed target.

Since all research shows that armed responses to mass shooters drives them away and stops them when they happen, we should focus on getting rid of democrat gun free zones.

And to this point...nothing proposed achieves what you want. Not raising the age to buy rifles, magazine limits or waiting periods.

You are a stats guy. Tell me. If a law or regulation did prevent somebody from getting a gun, or if it did prevent a murder, or if it did reduce casualties in a shooting, how would that get measured?

 

[2aguy]

I understood his answer. We wonder why you don't.

Trolling?

Excellent, then please explain his answer and how it directly addressed my question.

Now read this carefully.

It's OK to follow along with your finger on the screen

And it's even all right to move your lips while you read.

You asked me if I agree with the machine gun restrictions

I said I don't think the additional permit or the additional taxes are necessary and that anyone who can legally buy a firearm should be able to buy a fully automatic weapon.


We can surmise from this that since the current regulations require both the additional permit and tax as well as passing the background check that I disagree with 2 points of the current law regarding automatic weapons but not all the regulations

Ergo ( that means therefore) One can see the answer to your question was not simply a yes or no

Did you understand that or should I use smaller words?

That’s great, thanks you. I wish you would have simply said that a day ago instead of going round about for pages and pages of posts.

So let’s take away the additional permit and the taxes and look at what is needed for somebody to legally purchase a firearm, which you apparently agree with. What process to determine somebodies legality to sell or purchase a gun to you agree with?

I’m asking with honest intent of learning what your position is BTW. Not trying to lay bait.

Westwall had an idea in a thread a couple days ago....he said it can already be done...a toll free number where you run the buyers name and drivers license number.....they tell you if they have felony convictions or outstanding warrants....

Done....

No records, no registration, and it costs nothing, and is easy and doesn't target law abiding gun owners....

I’m fine with a quick and easy process. How do you feel about a waiting period to help reduce impulse/emotional buys which could be followed by crimes.

Waiting periods do nothing....and are either Security Theater or just a way to annoy law abiding gun owners...

Criminals don't care...their straw buyer will get the gun anyway.

Mass shooters plan their attacks 6 months to 2 years in advance, knowing that, how does a waiting period achieve anything?

And suicide.....Japan, China, Korea have almost absolute gun control and higher suicide rates than we do...so guns are not the issue in suicide so waiting periods don't effect those either...

 

[Slade3200]

That’s great, thanks you. I wish you would have simply said that a day ago instead of going round about for pages and pages of posts.

So let’s take away the additional permit and the taxes and look at what is needed for somebody to legally purchase a firearm, which you apparently agree with. What process to determine somebodies legality to sell or purchase a gun to you agree with?

I’m asking with honest intent of learning what your position is BTW. Not trying to lay bait.

Westwall had an idea in a thread a couple days ago....he said it can already be done...a toll free number where you run the buyers name and drivers license number.....they tell you if they have felony convictions or outstanding warrants....

Done....

No records, no registration, and it costs nothing, and is easy and doesn't target law abiding gun owners....

I’m fine with a quick and easy process. How do you feel about a waiting period to help reduce impulse/emotional buys which could be followed by crimes.

Why delay the purchase by those not intending to commit a crime because someone may?

I guess we could also delay the rental of trucks as well because a very small number might want to use them to blow up federal buildings?

Apples and oranges in my opinion. Putting a buffer in the time frame of purchasing a gun eliminates the impulse actions that somebody in an emotional state may go through, give them some time to cool off. I don’t see it as a huge inconvienenve on law abiding citizens either. There are plenty of products that we have to wait for. Hell, Amazon prime even takes two days to deliver and that’s lightning fast!

Sorry...research doesn't show that waiting periods work.....do you realize that actual mass shooters plan their attacks 6 months to 2 years in advance? So a few days waiting period is simply Security Theater. Criminals will wait for their straw buyer to get the gun, then use that gun for crime..

But we have actual cases of women who are being stalked being denied guns because of waiting periods and May Issue rules in various states....and then being murdered while they are waiting to get their guns....

Should you be required to wait 3 days before you vote, before you can publish a political tract?

Valid points. I think if somebody feels like they are in danger and want to protect themselves they shouldnt have to wait long. Perhaps there needs to be an expetited process in coordination with the police department to help people in these kind of situations.

 

[2aguy]

Why delay the purchase by those not intending to commit a crime because someone may?

I guess we could also delay the rental of trucks as well because a very small number might want to use them to blow up federal buildings?

Apples and oranges in my opinion. Putting a buffer in the time frame of purchasing a gun eliminates the impulse actions that somebody in an emotional state may go through, give them some time to cool off. I don’t see it as a huge inconvienenve on law abiding citizens either. There are plenty of products that we have to wait for. Hell, Amazon prime even takes two days to deliver and that’s lightning fast!

A huge SO WHAT? So the theory is that someone hell bent on murder, the worst possible thing a human can do to another human, will go to a gun shop to buy the ONLY TOOL he could possibly use to MURDER?

See the problem to start with?

Somebody hell bent on murder is likely going to achieve it one way or another. In other cases you might have somebody going through an emotional episode. Could be a domestic altercation, could be a firing from the work place, maybe a spouse was found cheating, or their dog just died who knows. But if a person is in an emotional state and wants to inflict harm on themself or another then a gun is the most efficient and destructive tool to use so doing something to prevent emotional purchases could prevent death. It doesn’t necessarily have to be a waiting period, that’s just one idea. The point is to do our best to make sure people who buy and own weapons are responsible, law abiding citizens and of sound mind. Can we at least agree on that last point?

Sure, we should try to stop felons and the mentally ill from getting guns. and we already have all the processes in place to do this, no new ones are needed. What do we need? We need the police to follow through and actually apply the ones we already have.

We do not need to limit access to guns by law abiding people based on the extremely rare mass public shooting. In fact, the thing driving these mass public shootings are the democrat gun free zones we have created which make sure that those emotionally disturbed people you mention, have an easy, unarmed target.

Since all research shows that armed responses to mass shooters drives them away and stops them when they happen, we should focus on getting rid of democrat gun free zones.

And to this point...nothing proposed achieves what you want. Not raising the age to buy rifles, magazine limits or waiting periods.

You are a stats guy. Tell me. If a law or regulation did prevent somebody from getting a gun, or if it did prevent a murder, or if it did reduce casualties in a shooting, how would that get measured?

The CDC and the FBI keep stats on that. Go To the FBI homicide table, or the CDC WISQARS site.....for actual murder rates....

Stopping a murder.....there are about a dozen studies that look at defensive gun use...the most famous was by Gary Kleck, and he found Americans use their guns over 1 million to 2.5 million times a year.....then bill clinton had his Department of Justice try to refute his findings, they did their own study and found the number at about 1,500,000 times a year...those are just defensive gun uses....so out of those you would have a percentage of lives actually saved. There are some people who have tried to find that number ......but it isn't as accurate because most of the time when a victim shows or draws a gun, the criminal runs away......they only have to shoot really dumb criminals about 230 times a year.....

 

[2aguy]

Westwall had an idea in a thread a couple days ago....he said it can already be done...a toll free number where you run the buyers name and drivers license number.....they tell you if they have felony convictions or outstanding warrants....

Done....

No records, no registration, and it costs nothing, and is easy and doesn't target law abiding gun owners....

I’m fine with a quick and easy process. How do you feel about a waiting period to help reduce impulse/emotional buys which could be followed by crimes.

Why delay the purchase by those not intending to commit a crime because someone may?

I guess we could also delay the rental of trucks as well because a very small number might want to use them to blow up federal buildings?

Apples and oranges in my opinion. Putting a buffer in the time frame of purchasing a gun eliminates the impulse actions that somebody in an emotional state may go through, give them some time to cool off. I don’t see it as a huge inconvienenve on law abiding citizens either. There are plenty of products that we have to wait for. Hell, Amazon prime even takes two days to deliver and that’s lightning fast!

Sorry...research doesn't show that waiting periods work.....do you realize that actual mass shooters plan their attacks 6 months to 2 years in advance? So a few days waiting period is simply Security Theater. Criminals will wait for their straw buyer to get the gun, then use that gun for crime..

But we have actual cases of women who are being stalked being denied guns because of waiting periods and May Issue rules in various states....and then being murdered while they are waiting to get their guns....

Should you be required to wait 3 days before you vote, before you can publish a political tract?

Valid points. I think if somebody feels like they are in danger and want to protect themselves they shouldnt have to wait long. Perhaps there needs to be an expetited process in coordination with the police department to help people in these kind of situations.

The anti gunners fight those laws....... some firearm instructors and stores try to expedite that, but there should be a law...a Restraining Order isn't protection, and often is the trigger that causes the murder of the woman....

 

[Slade3200]

Excellent, then please explain his answer and how it directly addressed my question.

Now read this carefully.

It's OK to follow along with your finger on the screen

And it's even all right to move your lips while you read.

You asked me if I agree with the machine gun restrictions

I said I don't think the additional permit or the additional taxes are necessary and that anyone who can legally buy a firearm should be able to buy a fully automatic weapon.


We can surmise from this that since the current regulations require both the additional permit and tax as well as passing the background check that I disagree with 2 points of the current law regarding automatic weapons but not all the regulations

Ergo ( that means therefore) One can see the answer to your question was not simply a yes or no

Did you understand that or should I use smaller words?

That’s great, thanks you. I wish you would have simply said that a day ago instead of going round about for pages and pages of posts.

So let’s take away the additional permit and the taxes and look at what is needed for somebody to legally purchase a firearm, which you apparently agree with. What process to determine somebodies legality to sell or purchase a gun to you agree with?

I’m asking with honest intent of learning what your position is BTW. Not trying to lay bait.

Westwall had an idea in a thread a couple days ago....he said it can already be done...a toll free number where you run the buyers name and drivers license number.....they tell you if they have felony convictions or outstanding warrants....

Done....

No records, no registration, and it costs nothing, and is easy and doesn't target law abiding gun owners....

I’m fine with a quick and easy process. How do you feel about a waiting period to help reduce impulse/emotional buys which could be followed by crimes.

Waiting periods do nothing....and are either Security Theater or just a way to annoy law abiding gun owners...

Criminals don't care...their straw buyer will get the gun anyway.

Mass shooters plan their attacks 6 months to 2 years in advance, knowing that, how does a waiting period achieve anything?

And suicide.....Japan, China, Korea have almost absolute gun control and higher suicide rates than we do...so guns are not the issue in suicide so waiting periods don't effect those either...

Japan is a completely different country/society so that example is apples and oranges. Waiting periods will have no effect on shooters that plan their attacks or have straw buyers. Is it your belief that 100% of murders committed by these methodical criminals?

 

[EGR one]

It's strange the NRA hates any measures which would keep guns out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them.

It's almost as if they care more about gun sales than the 11,000+ people murdered by guns each year.

Absolutely none of the measures proposed by the anti-gun crowd would keep any guns out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them.

Personally, I don't give a tinker's damn about numbers, since one is way too many dead children. I care about the 7 year old, shot and killed by a gang banger while playing in his front yard. I care about the 17 year old that was shot several times while walking home from school. I care about the 16 year old that was shot off his bicycle because he "dissed" some thug. The number 11,000 means nothing except to the people keeping score.

Do any of you numbnuts think that the mother of that 7 year old, dead in his front yard, feels any less pain because he wasn't one of 17 killed?

 

[Slade3200]

Apples and oranges in my opinion. Putting a buffer in the time frame of purchasing a gun eliminates the impulse actions that somebody in an emotional state may go through, give them some time to cool off. I don’t see it as a huge inconvienenve on law abiding citizens either. There are plenty of products that we have to wait for. Hell, Amazon prime even takes two days to deliver and that’s lightning fast!

A huge SO WHAT? So the theory is that someone hell bent on murder, the worst possible thing a human can do to another human, will go to a gun shop to buy the ONLY TOOL he could possibly use to MURDER?

See the problem to start with?

Somebody hell bent on murder is likely going to achieve it one way or another. In other cases you might have somebody going through an emotional episode. Could be a domestic altercation, could be a firing from the work place, maybe a spouse was found cheating, or their dog just died who knows. But if a person is in an emotional state and wants to inflict harm on themself or another then a gun is the most efficient and destructive tool to use so doing something to prevent emotional purchases could prevent death. It doesn’t necessarily have to be a waiting period, that’s just one idea. The point is to do our best to make sure people who buy and own weapons are responsible, law abiding citizens and of sound mind. Can we at least agree on that last point?

Sure, we should try to stop felons and the mentally ill from getting guns. and we already have all the processes in place to do this, no new ones are needed. What do we need? We need the police to follow through and actually apply the ones we already have.

We do not need to limit access to guns by law abiding people based on the extremely rare mass public shooting. In fact, the thing driving these mass public shootings are the democrat gun free zones we have created which make sure that those emotionally disturbed people you mention, have an easy, unarmed target.

Since all research shows that armed responses to mass shooters drives them away and stops them when they happen, we should focus on getting rid of democrat gun free zones.

And to this point...nothing proposed achieves what you want. Not raising the age to buy rifles, magazine limits or waiting periods.

You are a stats guy. Tell me. If a law or regulation did prevent somebody from getting a gun, or if it did prevent a murder, or if it did reduce casualties in a shooting, how would that get measured?

The CDC and the FBI keep stats on that. Go To the FBI homicide table, or the CDC WISQARS site.....for actual murder rates....

Stopping a murder.....there are about a dozen studies that look at defensive gun use...the most famous was by Gary Kleck, and he found Americans use their guns over 1 million to 2.5 million times a year.....then bill clinton had his Department of Justice try to refute his findings, they did their own study and found the number at about 1,500,000 times a year...those are just defensive gun uses....so out of those you would have a percentage of lives actually saved. There are some people who have tried to find that number ......but it isn't as accurate because most of the time when a victim shows or draws a gun, the criminal runs away......they only have to shoot really dumb criminals about 230 times a year.....

I’m not talking about defensive gun use. I’m talking about somebody who doesn’t use a gun because they couldn’t get one.

 

[EGR one]

Everyone believes in "gun control" to one extent or another. Possibly excepting Ted Nugent...

Very few people believe we should all have access to nukes or tanks or artillery. Very few people believe we should all have unrestricted access to fully automatic machine guns.

Very few people believe a convicted murderer on parole should be allowed a gun.

Very few people believe a six year old should be allowed to buy a gun.

Everyone believes in gun control to one extent or another.

If government can show a compelling need to restrict the constitutional rights of American citizens, and if the restriction proposed, is the least restrictive means of solving that compelling need, then restriction is reasonable.

There is no compelling need to further restrict the constitutional right of Americans to own guns, and therefore, further restrictions are unreasonable.

I don't know of any federal laws banning the private ownership of tanks,or artillery. Nukes might be hard to get ahold of.

 

[EGR one]

Because fucking machine guns are regulated to the point you have to have a FFL license to purchase one, along with a very extensive background check with the FBI and ATF seeing WHY you want to purchase one. Only idiots like you listen to the lickspittle, lapdog, liberal, lame stream media to get your dose of Socialist talking points.(and you call me a puppet).

View attachment 186568

And my question for the fifth time is if you support those regulations on machine guns

Do you think it’s a good thing or bad thing that 19 year olds can’t get machine guns?

And my question for the fifth time is if you support those regulations on machine guns

I just spit my coffee on my computer screen, be back in a few minutes.

View attachment 186569

You seem terrified to answer his simple question.

You think a criminal can't get their hands on one? Too funny dude

Another straw man.

We can make it harder for a criminal to get a gun. That's the whole point.

It works in other countries like ours. They have MUCH LOWER HOMICIDE RATES.

Keep reading that last sentence until it finally sinks in.

What evidence do you have that guns are the cause of our high homicide rate? Are knives the cause of the rising homicide rate in London?

 

[EGR one]

We regulate the shit out of cars, seems someone used one to kill 6 kids last week.

You have a point?

Murderers murder, they give a crap out of laws and regulations, it's not within the nature of a killer to care.

Cars are not a constitutional right so it’s a different discussion now isn’t it? How do you feel about machine guns being regulated? Do you support it or not?

No giving a shit is not an answer?

What’s no giving a shit? Are you trying to say that you don’t care if machine guns are regulated? Come on man, use your words

At this point, what difference does it make if the machine gun is regulated or not. We the People cannot get them unless we have a legal means to purchase, or are criminal like Eric Holder and get them from the DOJ..

It matters because it goes to the principle behind the law and our governments right to regulate weapons. Why can’t you just answer a simple question?

Did the federal government have a compelling need to severely limit public ownership of automatic weapons? I don't think so, but I was not around when it happened, and I don't believe there was any organized opposition to doing so, then or now. Water under the bridge.

Does the federal government have a compelling need to limit public ownership of semi-automatic weapons, or any sort? None has been demonstrated, so far.

 

[Pop23]

Why delay the purchase by those not intending to commit a crime because someone may?

I guess we could also delay the rental of trucks as well because a very small number might want to use them to blow up federal buildings?

Apples and oranges in my opinion. Putting a buffer in the time frame of purchasing a gun eliminates the impulse actions that somebody in an emotional state may go through, give them some time to cool off. I don’t see it as a huge inconvienenve on law abiding citizens either. There are plenty of products that we have to wait for. Hell, Amazon prime even takes two days to deliver and that’s lightning fast!

A huge SO WHAT? So the theory is that someone hell bent on murder, the worst possible thing a human can do to another human, will go to a gun shop to buy the ONLY TOOL he could possibly use to MURDER?

See the problem to start with?

Somebody hell bent on murder is likely going to achieve it one way or another. In other cases you might have somebody going through an emotional episode. Could be a domestic altercation, could be a firing from the work place, maybe a spouse was found cheating, or their dog just died who knows. But if a person is in an emotional state and wants to inflict harm on themself or another then a gun is the most efficient and destructive tool to use so doing something to prevent emotional purchases could prevent death. It doesn’t necessarily have to be a waiting period, that’s just one idea. The point is to do our best to make sure people who buy and own weapons are responsible, law abiding citizens and of sound mind. Can we at least agree on that last point?

Sure, we should try to stop felons and the mentally ill from getting guns. and we already have all the processes in place to do this, no new ones are needed. What do we need? We need the police to follow through and actually apply the ones we already have.

We do not need to limit access to guns by law abiding people based on the extremely rare mass public shooting. In fact, the thing driving these mass public shootings are the democrat gun free zones we have created which make sure that those emotionally disturbed people you mention, have an easy, unarmed target.

Since all research shows that armed responses to mass shooters drives them away and stops them when they happen, we should focus on getting rid of democrat gun free zones.

And to this point...nothing proposed achieves what you want. Not raising the age to buy rifles, magazine limits or waiting periods.

You are a stats guy. Tell me. If a law or regulation did prevent somebody from getting a gun, or if it did prevent a murder, or if it did reduce casualties in a shooting, how would that get measured?

Proving a negative is impossible.

Is this the new game?

 

[EGR one]

Why delay the purchase by those not intending to commit a crime because someone may?

I guess we could also delay the rental of trucks as well because a very small number might want to use them to blow up federal buildings?

Apples and oranges in my opinion. Putting a buffer in the time frame of purchasing a gun eliminates the impulse actions that somebody in an emotional state may go through, give them some time to cool off. I don’t see it as a huge inconvienenve on law abiding citizens either. There are plenty of products that we have to wait for. Hell, Amazon prime even takes two days to deliver and that’s lightning fast!

A huge SO WHAT? So the theory is that someone hell bent on murder, the worst possible thing a human can do to another human, will go to a gun shop to buy the ONLY TOOL he could possibly use to MURDER?

See the problem to start with?

Somebody hell bent on murder is likely going to achieve it one way or another. In other cases you might have somebody going through an emotional episode. Could be a domestic altercation, could be a firing from the work place, maybe a spouse was found cheating, or their dog just died who knows. But if a person is in an emotional state and wants to inflict harm on themself or another then a gun is the most efficient and destructive tool to use so doing something to prevent emotional purchases could prevent death. It doesn’t necessarily have to be a waiting period, that’s just one idea. The point is to do our best to make sure people who buy and own weapons are responsible, law abiding citizens and of sound mind. Can we at least agree on that last point?

Sure, we should try to stop felons and the mentally ill from getting guns. and we already have all the processes in place to do this, no new ones are needed. What do we need? We need the police to follow through and actually apply the ones we already have.

We do not need to limit access to guns by law abiding people based on the extremely rare mass public shooting. In fact, the thing driving these mass public shootings are the democrat gun free zones we have created which make sure that those emotionally disturbed people you mention, have an easy, unarmed target.

Since all research shows that armed responses to mass shooters drives them away and stops them when they happen, we should focus on getting rid of democrat gun free zones.

And to this point...nothing proposed achieves what you want. Not raising the age to buy rifles, magazine limits or waiting periods.

You are a stats guy. Tell me. If a law or regulation did prevent somebody from getting a gun, or if it did prevent a murder, or if it did reduce casualties in a shooting, how would that get measured?

It couldn't be measured. However, the possibility that a law or regulation may prevent a murder, has to be weighed against the real possibility that the law or regulation may contribute to a murder.

 

[danielpalos]

Muster the Militia! We should have no security problems in our free States, we have a Second Amendment!

 

[Slade3200]

Cars are not a constitutional right so it’s a different discussion now isn’t it? How do you feel about machine guns being regulated? Do you support it or not?

No giving a shit is not an answer?

What’s no giving a shit? Are you trying to say that you don’t care if machine guns are regulated? Come on man, use your words

At this point, what difference does it make if the machine gun is regulated or not. We the People cannot get them unless we have a legal means to purchase, or are criminal like Eric Holder and get them from the DOJ..

It matters because it goes to the principle behind the law and our governments right to regulate weapons. Why can’t you just answer a simple question?

Did the federal government have a compelling need to severely limit public ownership of automatic weapons? I don't think so, but I was not around when it happened, and I don't believe there was any organized opposition to doing so, then or now. Water under the bridge.

Does the federal government have a compelling need to limit public ownership of semi-automatic weapons, or any sort? None has been demonstrated, so far.

Does desire of the people count as compelling? Im not saying by any means that the majority of Americans want to ban ARs but if they did and it was voted on then would you accept it?

 

[Slade3200]

Apples and oranges in my opinion. Putting a buffer in the time frame of purchasing a gun eliminates the impulse actions that somebody in an emotional state may go through, give them some time to cool off. I don’t see it as a huge inconvienenve on law abiding citizens either. There are plenty of products that we have to wait for. Hell, Amazon prime even takes two days to deliver and that’s lightning fast!

A huge SO WHAT? So the theory is that someone hell bent on murder, the worst possible thing a human can do to another human, will go to a gun shop to buy the ONLY TOOL he could possibly use to MURDER?

See the problem to start with?

Somebody hell bent on murder is likely going to achieve it one way or another. In other cases you might have somebody going through an emotional episode. Could be a domestic altercation, could be a firing from the work place, maybe a spouse was found cheating, or their dog just died who knows. But if a person is in an emotional state and wants to inflict harm on themself or another then a gun is the most efficient and destructive tool to use so doing something to prevent emotional purchases could prevent death. It doesn’t necessarily have to be a waiting period, that’s just one idea. The point is to do our best to make sure people who buy and own weapons are responsible, law abiding citizens and of sound mind. Can we at least agree on that last point?

Sure, we should try to stop felons and the mentally ill from getting guns. and we already have all the processes in place to do this, no new ones are needed. What do we need? We need the police to follow through and actually apply the ones we already have.

We do not need to limit access to guns by law abiding people based on the extremely rare mass public shooting. In fact, the thing driving these mass public shootings are the democrat gun free zones we have created which make sure that those emotionally disturbed people you mention, have an easy, unarmed target.

Since all research shows that armed responses to mass shooters drives them away and stops them when they happen, we should focus on getting rid of democrat gun free zones.

And to this point...nothing proposed achieves what you want. Not raising the age to buy rifles, magazine limits or waiting periods.

You are a stats guy. Tell me. If a law or regulation did prevent somebody from getting a gun, or if it did prevent a murder, or if it did reduce casualties in a shooting, how would that get measured?

Proving a negative is impossible.

Is this the new game?

It’s not a game but it is valid to this discussion. I actually appreciate it when people show stats like 2aguy does, however the purpose of gun regulations is prevention which as you just noted, is extremely hard, if not impossible, to show

 

[Slade3200]

Apples and oranges in my opinion. Putting a buffer in the time frame of purchasing a gun eliminates the impulse actions that somebody in an emotional state may go through, give them some time to cool off. I don’t see it as a huge inconvienenve on law abiding citizens either. There are plenty of products that we have to wait for. Hell, Amazon prime even takes two days to deliver and that’s lightning fast!

A huge SO WHAT? So the theory is that someone hell bent on murder, the worst possible thing a human can do to another human, will go to a gun shop to buy the ONLY TOOL he could possibly use to MURDER?

See the problem to start with?

Somebody hell bent on murder is likely going to achieve it one way or another. In other cases you might have somebody going through an emotional episode. Could be a domestic altercation, could be a firing from the work place, maybe a spouse was found cheating, or their dog just died who knows. But if a person is in an emotional state and wants to inflict harm on themself or another then a gun is the most efficient and destructive tool to use so doing something to prevent emotional purchases could prevent death. It doesn’t necessarily have to be a waiting period, that’s just one idea. The point is to do our best to make sure people who buy and own weapons are responsible, law abiding citizens and of sound mind. Can we at least agree on that last point?

Sure, we should try to stop felons and the mentally ill from getting guns. and we already have all the processes in place to do this, no new ones are needed. What do we need? We need the police to follow through and actually apply the ones we already have.

We do not need to limit access to guns by law abiding people based on the extremely rare mass public shooting. In fact, the thing driving these mass public shootings are the democrat gun free zones we have created which make sure that those emotionally disturbed people you mention, have an easy, unarmed target.

Since all research shows that armed responses to mass shooters drives them away and stops them when they happen, we should focus on getting rid of democrat gun free zones.

And to this point...nothing proposed achieves what you want. Not raising the age to buy rifles, magazine limits or waiting periods.

You are a stats guy. Tell me. If a law or regulation did prevent somebody from getting a gun, or if it did prevent a murder, or if it did reduce casualties in a shooting, how would that get measured?

It couldn't be measured. However, the possibility that a law or regulation may prevent a murder, has to be weighed against the real possibility that the law or regulation may contribute to a murder.

I agree, good point