Zone1 Paying Reparations for the Past

[IM2]

I always believed that when people said the problem was Africans selling their own into slavery that some details had to be missing. It is so easy to simply repeat something like a parrot. This article gives reasons and explanations and people should be willing to believe the words of an African, who like you said, had been taught the truth of the matter from his elders.

Sometimes I wonder in this day of alternate facts and reality TV if truth will endure and be passed on to our children. The scripture tells us that the truth will set us free. I hope people's eyes will be opened to these truths and that their hearts will be open to a deeper understanding of what really happened. Then perhaps they can stop the blame game.

Yes. I did a whole lot of looking and research because the way the story gets repeated just didn't make sense.

 

[AZrailwhale]

I always believed that when people said the problem was Africans selling their own into slavery that some details had to be missing. It is so easy to simply repeat something like a parrot. This article gives reasons and explanations and people should be willing to believe the words of an African, who like you said, had been taught the truth of the matter from his elders.

Sometimes I wonder in this day of alternate facts and reality TV if truth will endure and be passed on to our children. The scripture tells us that the truth will set us free. I hope people's eyes will be opened to these truths and that their hearts will be open to a deeper understanding of what really happened. Then perhaps they can stop the blame game.

That is less likely to be accurate than the Homer’s Illiad or the legend of Troy. All three were handed down for generations by word of mouth before being written down with each retelling losing accuracy. Blacks were selling other blacks to Muslims and their predecessor civilizations long before the first Portuguese sailor ever landed on the Gold Coast.

 

[Captain Caveman]

Wrong. The Affican slave trade with Europe did not happen as right wing whites describe. Alson, 389,000 slaves were shipped to America. By the Civil War, there were 4 million. Africans did not implement the slave breeding industry in this country. Africans did not force girls as young as 12 to have children. Africans did not force slave women to mass produce chiildren to sell as slaves. Africans did not make those women birth 10-15 kids. Many of these women died as a result of forced breeding.

Africans did not create seasoning camps where slaves were brutally tortured and made to adapt to being slaves. Now you guys really need to drop your disingenuous bullshit to avoid the fact of what whites have done.

Blacks owned and sold white slaves too, blacks also had black slaves. These black slave owners didn't treat their slaves humanely either.

 

[irosie91]

Things did not happen that simply.

another meaningless statement ^^^^^. "THINGS" certainly did happen-----for thousands of years

 

[IM2]

That is less likely to be accurate than the Homer’s Illiad or the legend of Troy. All three were handed down for generations by word of mouth before being written down with each retelling losing accuracy. Blacks were selling other blacks to Muslims and their predecessor civilizations long before the first Portuguese sailor ever landed on the Gold Coast.

It's accurate.

“One major author on the slave trade (appropriately titled Sins of Our Fathers) explained how many white people urged him to state that the trade was the responsibility of African chiefs, and that Europeans merely turned up to buy captives- as though without European demand there would have been captives sitting on the beach by the millions!
- Walter Rodney

The bullshit excuses need to end. Africans did not force whites to buy the damn slaves and Africans did not make American law.

Furthermore less than 400,000 slaves landed here and whites turned that into 4 million by manufacturing humans to be sold into slavery. Approximately 3.6 million slaves were bred and sold by whites here in America. That is 9-10 times more than the number of slaves white Americans got from Africa.

Ned & Constance Sublette, The American Slave Coast: A History of the Slave-Breeding Industry, Chicago, Lawrence Hill Books, 2016, pp.11-12

So it's time to stop repeating that Africans sod each other bullshit. Things didn't happen like they tell you at Stormfront.

 

[AZrailwhale]

It's accurate.

“One major author on the slave trade (appropriately titled Sins of Our Fathers) explained how many white people urged him to state that the trade was the responsibility of African chiefs, and that Europeans merely turned up to buy captives- as though without European demand there would have been captives sitting on the beach by the millions!
- Walter Rodney

The bullshit excuses need to end. Africans did not force whites to buy the damn slaves and Africans did not make American law.

Furthermore less than 400,000 slaves landed here and whites turned that into 4 million by manufacturing humans to be sold into slavery. Approximately 3.6 million slaves were bred and sold by whites here in America. That is 9-10 times more than the number of slaves white Americans got from Africa.

Ned & Constance Sublette, The American Slave Coast: A History of the Slave-Breeding Industry, Chicago, Lawrence Hill Books, 2016, pp.11-12

So it's time to stop repeating that Africans sod each other bullshit. Things didn't happen like they tell you at Stormfront.

For every slave bought by white sailing ship captains ten or more were bought by Muslim slave traders and marched across the Sahara and the males gelded so they couldn't reproduce.

 

[AZrailwhale]

It's accurate.

“One major author on the slave trade (appropriately titled Sins of Our Fathers) explained how many white people urged him to state that the trade was the responsibility of African chiefs, and that Europeans merely turned up to buy captives- as though without European demand there would have been captives sitting on the beach by the millions!
- Walter Rodney

The bullshit excuses need to end. Africans did not force whites to buy the damn slaves and Africans did not make American law.

Furthermore less than 400,000 slaves landed here and whites turned that into 4 million by manufacturing humans to be sold into slavery. Approximately 3.6 million slaves were bred and sold by whites here in America. That is 9-10 times more than the number of slaves white Americans got from Africa.

Ned & Constance Sublette, The American Slave Coast: A History of the Slave-Breeding Industry, Chicago, Lawrence Hill Books, 2016, pp.11-12

So it's time to stop repeating that Africans sod each other bullshit. Things didn't happen like they tell you at Stormfront.

There is no way a bunch of sailors got off their ships and ran around capturing blacks who knew the area far better than the sailors. Plus the average crew of a slave ship was probably less than twenty men and certainly less than fifty men. Slaving ships were small and fast Brigs and Schooners that needed few men to sail them. Every sailor cut into the profit margin for the voyage. The only civilian ships that sailed with large crews were privateers which needed prize crews to sail captured prizes into port and their crews were paid in shares, not salary.
Here is a link to the Bristol history site that contains information about the slave trade. It is from CONTEMPORARY writings and logbooks of people who participated in the trade. Discovering Bristol - an online history of the port and its people. You will find that it completely refutes your imaginary version of the slave trade. Local chiefs made war on other tribes to capture slaves to sell.

 

[irosie91]

For every slave bought by white sailing ship captains ten or more were bought by Muslim slave traders and marched across the Sahara and the males gelded so they couldn't reproduce.

they were more than "gelded" which means castrated----to wit, the testicles removed---in FACT
the testicles were not removed---the shaft of the penis was removed leaving them with the testosterone and STRENGTH producing hormone---but removing that which facilitates sex----it was a muslim thing------like crucifixion----forbidden in jewish law

 

[AZrailwhale]

Biden is not giving illegal immigrants reparations.

Republicans don't mind giving "reparations" to millionaires and billionaires.

He certainly wanted to until the public got wind of it and started a firestorm.

 

[IM2]

He certainly wanted to until the public got wind of it and started a firestorm.

He didn't wait for anything. You right wingers made this up.

 

[gipper]

It's accurate.

“One major author on the slave trade (appropriately titled Sins of Our Fathers) explained how many white people urged him to state that the trade was the responsibility of African chiefs, and that Europeans merely turned up to buy captives- as though without European demand there would have been captives sitting on the beach by the millions!
- Walter Rodney

The bullshit excuses need to end. Africans did not force whites to buy the damn slaves and Africans did not make American law.

Furthermore less than 400,000 slaves landed here and whites turned that into 4 million by manufacturing humans to be sold into slavery. Approximately 3.6 million slaves were bred and sold by whites here in America. That is 9-10 times more than the number of slaves white Americans got from Africa.

Ned & Constance Sublette, The American Slave Coast: A History of the Slave-Breeding Industry, Chicago, Lawrence Hill Books, 2016, pp.11-12

So it's time to stop repeating that Africans sod each other bullshit. Things didn't happen like they tell you at Stormfront.

I have no problem with blacks receiving reparations for slavery, but there is a big obstacle. The nation is $30 trillion in debt and rising fast. Adding trillions more to pay reparations might be difficult.

 

[AZrailwhale]

He didn't wait for anything. You right wingers made this up.

Sorry that you have such a short memory. Biden was going to give every illegal separated from their children several hundred grand.

 

[IM2]

Sorry that you have such a short memory. Biden was going to give every illegal separated from their children several hundred grand.

My memory is fine, I just don't fall for right wing bullshit.

 

[IM2]

I have no problem with blacks receiving reparations for slavery, but there is a big obstacle. The nation is $30 trillion in debt and rising fast. Adding trillions more to pay reparations might be difficult.

The nation is 30 trillion in debt and spending billions when and where it wants. The main eason we are in debt is because of racism.

 

[gipper]

The nation is 30 trillion in debt and spending billions when and where it wants. The main eason we are in debt is because of racism.

?

 

[nawpar]

The opposition to black reparations is based on sheer racist hatred. Precedents have been set as other groups who have been harmed by the government have received reparations. As for the tired worn out excuse of “why should I pay for something I did not do,” here is an example of reparations made in modern times for things done by past generations:

I am quite sure no one living in 1980 was alive when the U.S. government made the Fort Laramie treaty with the Sioux Nation or were participants in Custers violation of that treaty. Nor were they alive when President Grant decided it was OK to let settlers and people prospecting for gold tresspass into land promised to the Sioux thereby violating the treaty. No one in 1980 was alive when the U.S. government decided to take the land from the Sioux by military force. No one in 1980 was alive when the U.S. government decided to cut off supplies they promised the Sioux as condition for their surrender after whipping the U.S. Army at The Battle of Little Bighorn. But in 1980, the government of the United States decided reparations were due to the Sioux Nation for what was done to them in the 1800’s. They awarded the Sioux nation 105 million dollars. Now to our Sioux Nation brothers and sisters, let me say that money is just a pittance of what you are truly owed, but my point here is to render the excuses made in opposition to reparations for blacks to what it is, the racist refusal to take responsibility for what this government has done to black citizens of this nation.

United States v. Sioux Nation of Indians :: 448 U.S. 371 (1980) :: Justia US Supreme Court Center, United States v. Sioux Nation of Indians, 448 U.S. 371 (1980)

When mentioning situations like the one cited above, I get told how the government made treaties with the First Nations and how treaties are not reparations. Inevitably there is always one person who calls themselves being a smart aleck who will ask me to show any treaties blacks made with the government. This dumbing down of our culture is the result of listening to victimhood radio, better known as right wing talk radio.

The Webster’s definition of reparations: a repairing or keeping in repair, b. reparations plural : REPAIRS 2a: the act of making amends, offering expiation, or giving satisfaction for a wrong or injury; b: something done or given as amends or satisfaction, 3: the payment of damages : INDEMNIFICATION specifically : compensation in money or materials payable by a defeated nation for damages to or expenditures sustained by another nation as a result of hostilities with the defeated nation. The treaties made to First Nations set the precedent for American government payment of reparations. The government has consistently paid citizens of the First Nations reparations although the truth of the matter is that there will NEVER, EVER be enough United States currency printed to provide the proper reparations the First Nations deserve. Still whatever feeble effort that has been made has also been done in recent times to repay for things no one today was alive do do. Therefore the opposition to black reparations based on that argument is without merit.

There was no treaty with the slaves. The government didn't commit slavery. The government didn't own a single slave. And if it did they would only be responsible for the slaves they owned.

 

[LibertyKid]

Let's ask some questions:

How would reparations be paid? Are we talking direct payments to a bank account? Indirect payments through tax breaks, e.g., no federal or state income tax the life of the recipient?
If reparations are paid, we know the tax payers will pay, but are we talking only non-black tax payers? What are the logistics involved in determining who pays and gets paid? Doesn't it make sense that if reparations are paid to blacks of slavery descent that ancestors of white slave owners have to pay and all other non-slave owning ancestors don't have to pay? How do we determine any of the ancestry since we are so far removed?
Does anyone even care about the national debt and what it would do?

What is being considered a "fair" amount to pay per eligible person. I'm not sure I have seen any real numbers.
Should the money be accessible immediately or are we talking a retirement, trust, type of payments?
Should their be limits on what the funds can be spent on? I can see using funds for homes, businesses, debt relief, or anything else that puts the individual in a better place. Should there be restrictions so receivers can't buy fake eyelashes, weed, booze, swisher sweets, 28" rims and tires that cost $5000.00 but the car itself is only worth $500.00?
Is their a concern that direct payments will just be wasted if money is not properly used to better individual and their surrounding culture?
Let's say you get reparations, what is the 5-10 year measurable metric that as a society we would look at and say reparations had a positive outcome? I ask that as I feel reparations shouldn't be viewed as just another payout. It should be viewed as a resource that creates opportunity. So what is the measurable opportunity?

 

[IM2]

There was no treaty with the slaves. The government didn't commit slavery. The government didn't own a single slave. And if it did they would only be responsible for the slaves they owned.

Incorrect. The government made slavery legal. So the government created the human rights violations. You really need to think before you post.

 

[IM2]

Let's ask some questions:

How would reparations be paid? Are we talking direct payments to a bank account? Indirect payments through tax breaks, e.g., no federal or state income tax the life of the recipient?
If reparations are paid, we know the tax payers will pay, but are we talking only non-black tax payers? What are the logistics involved in determining who pays and gets paid? Doesn't it make sense that if reparations are paid to blacks of slavery descent that ancestors of white slave owners have to pay and all other non-slave owning ancestors don't have to pay? How do we determine any of the ancestry since we are so far removed?
Does anyone even care about the national debt and what it would do?

What is being considered a "fair" amount to pay per eligible person. I'm not sure I have seen any real numbers.
Should the money be accessible immediately or are we talking a retirement, trust, type of payments?
Should their be limits on what the funds can be spent on? I can see using funds for homes, businesses, debt relief, or anything else that puts the individual in a better place. Should there be restrictions so receivers can't buy fake eyelashes, weed, booze, swisher sweets, 28" rims and tires that cost $5000.00 but the car itself is only worth $500.00?
Is their a concern that direct payments will just be wasted if money is not properly used to better individual and their surrounding culture?
Let's say you get reparations, what is the 5-10 year measurable metric that as a society we would look at and say reparations had a positive outcome? I ask that as I feel reparations shouldn't be viewed as just another payout. It should be viewed as a resource that creates opportunity. So what is the measurable opportunity?

Let's not ask questions. Because you need to go study all the reparations that have been given instead of acting like this has not been done before. So you work on bettering a white culture that makes you ask stupid questions based on your individual racist beliefs.

 

[IM2]

The comment about how no treaty was made with slaves is another example of the ignorance that causes people to reach for excuses when they really have no sensible rebuttal.