Palestinian animals blow up civilian bus in Jerusalem

[montelatici]

I provided an example from the Battle of Algiers in terms of behavior earlier in the thread. You have to read earlier posts to understand what is being discussed.

lol.

I beg your pardon? Did you say something?



Or you could refer to the Birmingham UK pub bombings.

Yes, and again the question is why would anyone expect that the Palestinians would behave differently than other people under the same conditions. Just a simple question.

You should apply that to the Israeli Jews.

It's a false comparison. The French did not bomb Arab residential areas with fighter bombers of La Casbah in Algiers and the British did not bomb residential areas of Derry where Catholics lived.

The question is simple, why would anyone expect that the Palestinians would behave differently towards the Jews than the Catholics in Ireland towards the British and the Algerians towards the French.

There must be a reason why we have people railing at the Palestinians calling them animals while few called the Catholics in Ireland "animals" when they did the same things. In fact, I recall many Americans supported the actions of the IRA. And, only the French railed against the Algerians, the rest of the world, including much of Europe, saw the Algerians as freedom fighters.

Great Britain still consists of Northern Ireland. The IRA made peace. Why can't the Palestinians do the same?

The UK colonized Ireland 500 years ago. The Jews colonized Palestine less than 100 years ago.

 

[Mindful]

lol.

I beg your pardon? Did you say something?



Or you could refer to the Birmingham UK pub bombings.

Yes, and again the question is why would anyone expect that the Palestinians would behave differently than other people under the same conditions. Just a simple question.

You should apply that to the Israeli Jews.

It's a false comparison. The French did not bomb Arab residential areas with fighter bombers of La Casbah in Algiers and the British did not bomb residential areas of Derry where Catholics lived.

The question is simple, why would anyone expect that the Palestinians would behave differently towards the Jews than the Catholics in Ireland towards the British and the Algerians towards the French.

There must be a reason why we have people railing at the Palestinians calling them animals while few called the Catholics in Ireland "animals" when they did the same things. In fact, I recall many Americans supported the actions of the IRA. And, only the French railed against the Algerians, the rest of the world, including much of Europe, saw the Algerians as freedom fighters.

Great Britain still consists of Northern Ireland. The IRA made peace. Why can't the Palestinians do the same?

The UK colonized Ireland 500 years ago. The Jews colonized Palestine less than 100 years ago.

 

[Hollie]

lol.

I beg your pardon? Did you say something?



Or you could refer to the Birmingham UK pub bombings.

Yes, and again the question is why would anyone expect that the Palestinians would behave differently than other people under the same conditions. Just a simple question.

You should apply that to the Israeli Jews.

It's a false comparison. The French did not bomb Arab residential areas with fighter bombers of La Casbah in Algiers and the British did not bomb residential areas of Derry where Catholics lived.

The question is simple, why would anyone expect that the Palestinians would behave differently towards the Jews than the Catholics in Ireland towards the British and the Algerians towards the French.

There must be a reason why we have people railing at the Palestinians calling them animals while few called the Catholics in Ireland "animals" when they did the same things. In fact, I recall many Americans supported the actions of the IRA. And, only the French railed against the Algerians, the rest of the world, including much of Europe, saw the Algerians as freedom fighters.

Great Britain still consists of Northern Ireland. The IRA made peace. Why can't the Palestinians do the same?

The UK colonized Ireland 500 years ago. The Jews colonized Palestine less than 100 years ago.

The invading / colonizing Turk's followed by the invading / colonizing Egyptians, Syrians and Lebanese colonized the Palestinian territory earlier. You're just arbitrary and capricious in terms or your phony "outrage" as it applies to the disputed territories.

You do realize there was a legal process established to create the Jewish state, right?

What legal process established the invasion and colonization of Turk / Arab invaders / colonizers?

 

[Lipush]

We can say that violence that kills civilians, even in an attempt to gain freedom from an oppressor is wrong. But, the fact is that practically no national liberation movement has ever been liberated without violence.

The women that brought bombs to bars and public places to kill French civilians are now considered heroines of the Algerian revolt against the French occupier. The bombing sequence is one of the most watched sequences in the Battle of Algiers. It is quite poignant.



Should the Palestinians behave any differently than the Algerians or non-white South Africans? If so, why?

I am not condoning violence just questioning why some believe the Palestinians should behave differently than other people seeking national liberation.

Should the Palestinians behave any differently from the people of any other nation who goes through injustice?

Many people in many places you've never even heard about go through land-conflicts, poverty, injustice, starvation. But you don't hear of them going on bombing busses and running over people, stabbing everyone in sight or attacking random individuals.

That right is served only for the Palestinians, who get free right to do every possible shit in the book, but because they're "occupied" nobody gives a crap.

In your question, "why should the Palestinians act any differently than..." you yourself admit that it surprises you the idea of people expecting them to behave any less than brutal killers.

The terror attack was not condemned by any pro-Palestinian on this board.

Pathetic.

Many people in many places you've never even heard about go through land-conflicts, poverty, injustice, starvation. But you don't hear of them going on bombing busses and running over people, stabbing everyone in sight or attacking random individuals.​

Maybe the Zionists should have colonized a more docile country?

Maybe the Arab Egyptians, Jordanians, Saudies and Yemanaties who invented the "Palestinian" people should have learned to play nice?

 

[Lipush]

We can say that violence that kills civilians, even in an attempt to gain freedom from an oppressor is wrong. But, the fact is that practically no national liberation movement has ever been liberated without violence.

The women that brought bombs to bars and public places to kill French civilians are now considered heroines of the Algerian revolt against the French occupier. The bombing sequence is one of the most watched sequences in the Battle of Algiers. It is quite poignant.



Should the Palestinians behave any differently than the Algerians or non-white South Africans? If so, why?

I am not condoning violence just questioning why some believe the Palestinians should behave differently than other people seeking national liberation.

Killing innocent civilians is wrong...once you start to make that acceptable, then what kind of future are you building? It's that question often asked - do the ends justify the means?

When is it "ok" to kill innocent peolple?
When is it not?
Who decides?
How far do you go before it becomes an atrocity?

When those people are Jews, it's ok to kill them. That's the clearest agenda ever.

For some, ya. But I see some who also feel it's ok to kill Palestinians. At some point, being human no longer counts.

I remember the thread about the Dawabshe family. Some of us condemned this and some didn't. Those who didn't got the most despicable slander over here for not immediately condemning the burning of an innocent baby.

Those same people who roared at the lack of condemnation are the same who now fill their mouths water and desperately try to excuse the burning alive of 21 civilians!

 

[Mindful]

5 sentenced to death by Hamas court.
This is what happens to people in Gaza who want an end to Palestinian terror and peace with Israel.

Five ‘collaborators’ sentenced to death in Gaza
By KHALED ABU TOAMEH
Tue, 19 Apr 2016, 00:37 AM

Four were sentenced to death by hanging, a fifth by firing squad.

Photo by: REUTERS
A Hamas court in the Gaza Strip on Monday sentenced five Palestinians to death after finding them guilty of “collaboration” with Israel.

The names of the five convicted men were not released for publication.

Sources in the Gaza Strip said, however, that one of them was born in 1964 and had been collaborating with Israel since 2008. They said the man had provided Israel with information about Hamas tunnels and the nature of their work.

The second man, who was born in 1985, also had been collaborating with Israel since 2008, the sources said. They claimed he had been in contact with his Israeli handlers through the Internet, providing them with information about the identities and location of Hamas members.

The third man, born in 1975, had worked at the Erez border crossing, where he was allegedly recruited as an Israeli informant, the sources added. They said he was found guilty of supplying Israel with information about Hamas members and the places from which rockets were being fired at Israeli communities. The information he passed on resulted in the death and injury of several Palestinians, the sources said.

The fourth convict, born in 1985, began working for Israel in 2010. He, too, was accused of passing on information to his Israeli handlers, which led to the killing of several Hamas members, the sources said.

The four were sentenced to death by hanging.

The fifth man, who was born in 1978, had been recruited as an informant in 2001 while he was returning from Israel to the Gaza Strip through the Erez crossing, the sources said. He, too, was found guilty of passing information that helped Israel locate and kill a number of Hamas members.

He was sentenced to death by firing squad.

The Jerusalem Post

 

[Slyhunter]

We can say that violence that kills civilians, even in an attempt to gain freedom from an oppressor is wrong. But, the fact is that practically no national liberation movement has ever been liberated without violence.

The women that brought bombs to bars and public places to kill French civilians are now considered heroines of the Algerian revolt against the French occupier. The bombing sequence is one of the most watched sequences in the Battle of Algiers. It is quite poignant.



Should the Palestinians behave any differently than the Algerians or non-white South Africans? If so, why?

I am not condoning violence just questioning why some believe the Palestinians should behave differently than other people seeking national liberation.

Killing innocent civilians is wrong...once you start to make that acceptable, then what kind of future are you building? It's that question often asked - do the ends justify the means?

When is it "ok" to kill innocent peolple?
When is it not?
Who decides?
How far do you go before it becomes an atrocity?

Are people living on stolen land exempt from retaliation? Are they, in fact, "innocent?"

Then get the fucking trespassers out of Israel!
Jerusalem was the capital of Israel over 3000 years ago, way before Muhammad was a seed.

 

[Slyhunter]

We can say that violence that kills civilians, even in an attempt to gain freedom from an oppressor is wrong. But, the fact is that practically no national liberation movement has ever been liberated without violence.

The women that brought bombs to bars and public places to kill French civilians are now considered heroines of the Algerian revolt against the French occupier. The bombing sequence is one of the most watched sequences in the Battle of Algiers. It is quite poignant.



Should the Palestinians behave any differently than the Algerians or non-white South Africans? If so, why?

I am not condoning violence just questioning why some believe the Palestinians should behave differently than other people seeking national liberation.

Killing innocent civilians is wrong...once you start to make that acceptable, then what kind of future are you building? It's that question often asked - do the ends justify the means?

When is it "ok" to kill innocent peolple?
When is it not?
Who decides?
How far do you go before it becomes an atrocity?

Yes, agreed that it is wrong to kill civilians. That was not my question.

My question was why some expect and insist that the Palestinians behave differently than other groups seeking national liberation in the past.

What do you mean by "behave" and "differently"?

I provided an example from the Battle of Algiers in terms of behavior earlier in the thread. You have to read earlier posts to understand what is being discussed.

Who thinks it was heroic or OK for the Algerians to bomb bars and markets?

Terrorist.

 

[Slyhunter]

What do you mean by "behave" and "differently"?

I provided an example from the Battle of Algiers in terms of behavior earlier in the thread. You have to read earlier posts to understand what is being discussed.

lol.

I beg your pardon? Did you say something?



Or you could refer to the Birmingham UK pub bombings.

Yes, and again the question is why would anyone expect that the Palestinians would behave differently than other people under the same conditions. Just a simple question.

You should apply that to the Israeli Jews.

It's a false comparison. The French did not bomb Arab residential areas with fighter bombers of La Casbah in Algiers and the British did not bomb residential areas of Derry where Catholics lived.

The question is simple, why would anyone expect that the Palestinians would behave differently towards the Jews than the Catholics in Ireland towards the British and the Algerians towards the French.

There must be a reason why we have people railing at the Palestinians calling them animals while few called the Catholics in Ireland "animals" when they did the same things. In fact, I recall many Americans supported the actions of the IRA. And, only the French railed against the Algerians, the rest of the world, including much of Europe, saw the Algerians as freedom fighters.

Why should the Terrorist Palestine's be treated any different that we treated the terrorist Algerians? We kill them until they stop terrorising. It is that simple.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

5 sentenced to death by Hamas court.
This is what happens to people in Gaza who want an end to Palestinian terror and peace with Israel.

Five ‘collaborators’ sentenced to death in Gaza
By KHALED ABU TOAMEH
Tue, 19 Apr 2016, 00:37 AM

Four were sentenced to death by hanging, a fifth by firing squad.

Photo by: REUTERS
A Hamas court in the Gaza Strip on Monday sentenced five Palestinians to death after finding them guilty of “collaboration” with Israel.

The names of the five convicted men were not released for publication.

Sources in the Gaza Strip said, however, that one of them was born in 1964 and had been collaborating with Israel since 2008. They said the man had provided Israel with information about Hamas tunnels and the nature of their work.

The second man, who was born in 1985, also had been collaborating with Israel since 2008, the sources said. They claimed he had been in contact with his Israeli handlers through the Internet, providing them with information about the identities and location of Hamas members.

The third man, born in 1975, had worked at the Erez border crossing, where he was allegedly recruited as an Israeli informant, the sources added. They said he was found guilty of supplying Israel with information about Hamas members and the places from which rockets were being fired at Israeli communities. The information he passed on resulted in the death and injury of several Palestinians, the sources said.

The fourth convict, born in 1985, began working for Israel in 2010. He, too, was accused of passing on information to his Israeli handlers, which led to the killing of several Hamas members, the sources said.

The four were sentenced to death by hanging.

The fifth man, who was born in 1978, had been recruited as an informant in 2001 while he was returning from Israel to the Gaza Strip through the Erez crossing, the sources said. He, too, was found guilty of passing information that helped Israel locate and kill a number of Hamas members.

He was sentenced to death by firing squad.

The Jerusalem Post

Why were some of them hanged while others were shot by these thugs? Which is more harsh?

 

[Mindful]

5 sentenced to death by Hamas court.
This is what happens to people in Gaza who want an end to Palestinian terror and peace with Israel.

Five ‘collaborators’ sentenced to death in Gaza
By KHALED ABU TOAMEH
Tue, 19 Apr 2016, 00:37 AM

Four were sentenced to death by hanging, a fifth by firing squad.

Photo by: REUTERS
A Hamas court in the Gaza Strip on Monday sentenced five Palestinians to death after finding them guilty of “collaboration” with Israel.

The names of the five convicted men were not released for publication.

Sources in the Gaza Strip said, however, that one of them was born in 1964 and had been collaborating with Israel since 2008. They said the man had provided Israel with information about Hamas tunnels and the nature of their work.

The second man, who was born in 1985, also had been collaborating with Israel since 2008, the sources said. They claimed he had been in contact with his Israeli handlers through the Internet, providing them with information about the identities and location of Hamas members.

The third man, born in 1975, had worked at the Erez border crossing, where he was allegedly recruited as an Israeli informant, the sources added. They said he was found guilty of supplying Israel with information about Hamas members and the places from which rockets were being fired at Israeli communities. The information he passed on resulted in the death and injury of several Palestinians, the sources said.

The fourth convict, born in 1985, began working for Israel in 2010. He, too, was accused of passing on information to his Israeli handlers, which led to the killing of several Hamas members, the sources said.

The four were sentenced to death by hanging.

The fifth man, who was born in 1978, had been recruited as an informant in 2001 while he was returning from Israel to the Gaza Strip through the Erez crossing, the sources said. He, too, was found guilty of passing information that helped Israel locate and kill a number of Hamas members.

He was sentenced to death by firing squad.

The Jerusalem Post

Why were some of them hanged while others were shot by these thugs? Which is more harsh?

Preferable to having one's head chopped off, a la Isis, I should imagine.

 

[Hollie]

5 sentenced to death by Hamas court.
This is what happens to people in Gaza who want an end to Palestinian terror and peace with Israel.

Five ‘collaborators’ sentenced to death in Gaza
By KHALED ABU TOAMEH
Tue, 19 Apr 2016, 00:37 AM

Four were sentenced to death by hanging, a fifth by firing squad.

Photo by: REUTERS
A Hamas court in the Gaza Strip on Monday sentenced five Palestinians to death after finding them guilty of “collaboration” with Israel.

The names of the five convicted men were not released for publication.

Sources in the Gaza Strip said, however, that one of them was born in 1964 and had been collaborating with Israel since 2008. They said the man had provided Israel with information about Hamas tunnels and the nature of their work.

The second man, who was born in 1985, also had been collaborating with Israel since 2008, the sources said. They claimed he had been in contact with his Israeli handlers through the Internet, providing them with information about the identities and location of Hamas members.

The third man, born in 1975, had worked at the Erez border crossing, where he was allegedly recruited as an Israeli informant, the sources added. They said he was found guilty of supplying Israel with information about Hamas members and the places from which rockets were being fired at Israeli communities. The information he passed on resulted in the death and injury of several Palestinians, the sources said.

The fourth convict, born in 1985, began working for Israel in 2010. He, too, was accused of passing on information to his Israeli handlers, which led to the killing of several Hamas members, the sources said.

The four were sentenced to death by hanging.

The fifth man, who was born in 1978, had been recruited as an informant in 2001 while he was returning from Israel to the Gaza Strip through the Erez crossing, the sources said. He, too, was found guilty of passing information that helped Israel locate and kill a number of Hamas members.

He was sentenced to death by firing squad.

The Jerusalem Post

Why were some of them hanged while others were shot by these thugs? Which is more harsh?

They feel slighted that ISIS gets more attention in the lovely ways that Arabs slaughter other Arabs.

 

[José]

The right place for prostitute palestinians who sell their people for israeli shekels is six feet under the ground with a bullet hole in the head.

 

[Coyote]

We can say that violence that kills civilians, even in an attempt to gain freedom from an oppressor is wrong. But, the fact is that practically no national liberation movement has ever been liberated without violence.

The women that brought bombs to bars and public places to kill French civilians are now considered heroines of the Algerian revolt against the French occupier. The bombing sequence is one of the most watched sequences in the Battle of Algiers. It is quite poignant.



Should the Palestinians behave any differently than the Algerians or non-white South Africans? If so, why?

I am not condoning violence just questioning why some believe the Palestinians should behave differently than other people seeking national liberation.

Killing innocent civilians is wrong...once you start to make that acceptable, then what kind of future are you building? It's that question often asked - do the ends justify the means?

When is it "ok" to kill innocent peolple?
When is it not?
Who decides?
How far do you go before it becomes an atrocity?

When those people are Jews, it's ok to kill them. That's the clearest agenda ever.

For some, ya. But I see some who also feel it's ok to kill Palestinians. At some point, being human no longer counts.

I remember the thread about the Dawabshe family. Some of us condemned this and some didn't. Those who didn't got the most despicable slander over here for not immediately condemning the burning of an innocent baby.

Those same people who roared at the lack of condemnation are the same who now fill their mouths water and desperately try to excuse the burning alive of 21 civilians!

There is no excusing it. Period.

 

[Coyote]

We can say that violence that kills civilians, even in an attempt to gain freedom from an oppressor is wrong. But, the fact is that practically no national liberation movement has ever been liberated without violence.

The women that brought bombs to bars and public places to kill French civilians are now considered heroines of the Algerian revolt against the French occupier. The bombing sequence is one of the most watched sequences in the Battle of Algiers. It is quite poignant.



Should the Palestinians behave any differently than the Algerians or non-white South Africans? If so, why?

I am not condoning violence just questioning why some believe the Palestinians should behave differently than other people seeking national liberation.

Killing innocent civilians is wrong...once you start to make that acceptable, then what kind of future are you building? It's that question often asked - do the ends justify the means?

When is it "ok" to kill innocent peolple?
When is it not?
Who decides?
How far do you go before it becomes an atrocity?

Are people living on stolen land exempt from retaliation? Are they, in fact, "innocent?"

If they bought the land they are living on in good faith, then yes, they are. Blame goes to the government that allows settlement building in contested areas.

OK, I understand your point. However, can Israeli citizens be that ignorant of their history.

And besides, Israel's government is hiding so far behind its citizens and military that it is unreachable. Should the Palestinians just sit on their hands while their country disappears out from under them?

It's not being "ignorant of history" - it is in which narrative you believe in - who's version of history is right? Civilians aren't combatents. If you think it's ok to bomb a bus, which could have burned alive many innocent people just going about their daily lives - then was it just to firebomb the Dawabshe family? Or massacre the civilians in Dier Yassin?

When does it go from rightious resistance to just plain murder?

 

[Roudy]

We can say that violence that kills civilians, even in an attempt to gain freedom from an oppressor is wrong. But, the fact is that practically no national liberation movement has ever been liberated without violence.

The women that brought bombs to bars and public places to kill French civilians are now considered heroines of the Algerian revolt against the French occupier. The bombing sequence is one of the most watched sequences in the Battle of Algiers. It is quite poignant.



Should the Palestinians behave any differently than the Algerians or non-white South Africans? If so, why?

I am not condoning violence just questioning why some believe the Palestinians should behave differently than other people seeking national liberation.

Nobody gives a damn about your antisemitic lies and utterly false comparisons. The Zionist movement is just as much of a national liberation movement, if not more, than the the so called Palestinian, which is a recently invented identity and movement based on IslamoNazism.

Plain fact of the matter is the Jewish people who are on their ancestral, religious, and cultural homeland have just as much of a right to defend their people from violent Palestinian terrorist animals, and are therefore entitled to use all means, violent and non violent, to do that.

I am not condoning violence just questioning why Israel should behave any differently than other nations who's duty it is to provide security and safety of it's citizens.

 

[Roudy]

We can say that violence that kills civilians, even in an attempt to gain freedom from an oppressor is wrong. But, the fact is that practically no national liberation movement has ever been liberated without violence.

The women that brought bombs to bars and public places to kill French civilians are now considered heroines of the Algerian revolt against the French occupier. The bombing sequence is one of the most watched sequences in the Battle of Algiers. It is quite poignant.



Should the Palestinians behave any differently than the Algerians or non-white South Africans? If so, why?

I am not condoning violence just questioning why some believe the Palestinians should behave differently than other people seeking national liberation.

Killing innocent civilians is wrong...once you start to make that acceptable, then what kind of future are you building? It's that question often asked - do the ends justify the means?

When is it "ok" to kill innocent peolple?
When is it not?
Who decides?
How far do you go before it becomes an atrocity?

When it comes to antisemites, there is nothing wrong with killing Jews, because they are evil and always to blame.

 

[Roudy]

We can say that violence that kills civilians, even in an attempt to gain freedom from an oppressor is wrong. But, the fact is that practically no national liberation movement has ever been liberated without violence.

The women that brought bombs to bars and public places to kill French civilians are now considered heroines of the Algerian revolt against the French occupier. The bombing sequence is one of the most watched sequences in the Battle of Algiers. It is quite poignant.



Should the Palestinians behave any differently than the Algerians or non-white South Africans? If so, why?

I am not condoning violence just questioning why some believe the Palestinians should behave differently than other people seeking national liberation.

Killing innocent civilians is wrong...once you start to make that acceptable, then what kind of future are you building? It's that question often asked - do the ends justify the means?

When is it "ok" to kill innocent peolple?
When is it not?
Who decides?
How far do you go before it becomes an atrocity?

Are people living on stolen land exempt from retaliation? Are they, in fact, "innocent?"

^^ This statement represents your vile ideology.

perfectly stated.

 

[Roudy]

We can say that violence that kills civilians, even in an attempt to gain freedom from an oppressor is wrong. But, the fact is that practically no national liberation movement has ever been liberated without violence.

The women that brought bombs to bars and public places to kill French civilians are now considered heroines of the Algerian revolt against the French occupier. The bombing sequence is one of the most watched sequences in the Battle of Algiers. It is quite poignant.



Should the Palestinians behave any differently than the Algerians or non-white South Africans? If so, why?

I am not condoning violence just questioning why some believe the Palestinians should behave differently than other people seeking national liberation.

Killing innocent civilians is wrong...once you start to make that acceptable, then what kind of future are you building? It's that question often asked - do the ends justify the means?

When is it "ok" to kill innocent peolple?
When is it not?
Who decides?
How far do you go before it becomes an atrocity?

Yes, agreed that it is wrong to kill civilians. That was not my question.

My question was why some expect and insist that the Palestinians behave differently than other groups seeking national liberation in the past.

What do you mean by "behave" and "differently"?

He thinks that Palestinians have a right to slaughter Jews in their own holy land, while Jews should not have a right to retaliate or defend themselves.

Typical IslamoNazi mentality.

 

[Roudy]

lol.

I beg your pardon? Did you say something?



Or you could refer to the Birmingham UK pub bombings.

Yes, and again the question is why would anyone expect that the Palestinians would behave differently than other people under the same conditions. Just a simple question.

You should apply that to the Israeli Jews.

It's a false comparison. The French did not bomb Arab residential areas with fighter bombers of La Casbah in Algiers and the British did not bomb residential areas of Derry where Catholics lived.

The question is simple, why would anyone expect that the Palestinians would behave differently towards the Jews than the Catholics in Ireland towards the British and the Algerians towards the French.

There must be a reason why we have people railing at the Palestinians calling them animals while few called the Catholics in Ireland "animals" when they did the same things. In fact, I recall many Americans supported the actions of the IRA. And, only the French railed against the Algerians, the rest of the world, including much of Europe, saw the Algerians as freedom fighters.

Great Britain still consists of Northern Ireland. The IRA made peace. Why can't the Palestinians do the same?

The UK colonized Ireland 500 years ago. The Jews colonized Palestine less than 100 years ago.

Bullshit. Muslims have been invading Jewish and Christian lands for 1400 years.