Painfully Pointless Palin

[Luissa]

First point I would like to make is that the Biden slip is a) not as egregious as it is being made out to be, and b) a minor mistake irrelevant to the point he was making. Bear with me if you will. I want to present an analogy.

Our young quarterback today showed great leadership. When our star running back was injured, he took it upon himself to keep spirits up in the huddle and lead his team to victory.

Now, here is Biden's quote.



If you believe that this can only be interpreted as Biden thinking that Roosevelt was president at the exact moment of the crash, then you must also take the analogy above and admit that if you read it, you could only interpret it to mean that the quarterback huddled his players up at the exact moment the running back was injured. Obviously that is not the case. Truthfully, he could have done it the next play, or over the next few plays, or all throughout. Similarly, the Biden comment can be interpreted differently depending on whether "when the stock market crashed" is interpreted as a specific point in time or is a generalized reference encompassing the resultant economic depression.

As for the the TV/Radio mix-up, it is a very minor and easily understood mix-up besides being irrelevant to the point he was making. Roosevelt did give "fireside chats" over the radio explaining to people about the economic crisis. At the same time, memory often latches more strongly to visual images, and for me- and likely many others- it is common when thinking of Roosevelt to picture him speaking in those grainy black and white videos. That combined with the prevalence of TV in our culture as a means of communication and the development of TV as a major source of communication, a large part of which took place while Roosevelt was in office, makes such a mistake while speaking off the cuff very understandable. Roosevelt made his first fireside chat in 1933, and probably the best known video of him- the signing of the social security act- was filmed in 1935. As early as 1928 live television was being broadcast locally in New York. And by 1929 there were at least two stations broadcasting tv signals in New York. And of course, FDR was began his term as governor of New York in 1929. It is not inconceivable that at some point the governor of New York might have been broadcast over these signals or that he might have commented on the economic which occurred then, but there are no records so it cannot be resolved for now. It may be the Biden was in fact correct, but since I seriously doubt that this was what he was referring to, I will consider it a mistake. No free passes for luck. However it made no difference to his point about leadership. Which brings me to...

My other point is that Palin's remarks are more relevant which is why there is greater scrutiny by Couric, other media, and the general public. And they are questions suggested by the situation. The McCain campaign has aligned itself more strongly to its base over the last year- for example on abortion and taxes- where McCain has completely reversed his stance. I'm not judging his action, nor suggesting he is the only person to ever do that, but it does beg the question about where he stands on regulation. He says he favors it to clean up Wall Street, but it is counter to his traditional base and all his other moves have been closer to that base. Despite his epithet, Couric discovered that he overwhelmingly voted against regulation in his 26 years. Throw in the fact that Palin rarely misses a chance to say that Obama is more talk than action and you're practically asking for this question to be put to you. And it's relevant since it is part of their campaign platform, unlike whether or not Roosevelt was on TV. If you want to equate a potential VP stating that her foreign policy experience is based on Alaska being close to Russia, having no idea about the Bush Doctrine, and getting caught being hypocritical about her and her running-mate's criticisms with a potential VP stating that Roosevelt showed leadership by explaining the depression to people over the TV instead of Roosevelt showed leadership by explaining the depression to people over the Radio, then go ahead. But I think you are being dishonest with yourself.

And being governor of New York at the time along with being for strong regulations, I am sure he had some input in the stock market! He never said he was President in 29' but he did fix the problem!

 

[DiveCon]

And being governor of New York at the time along with being for strong regulations, I am sure he had some input in the stock market! He never said he was President in 29' but he did fix the problem!

so you will make excuses for Biden, but Palin is an idiot
no partisanship there

 

[Luissa]

so you will make excuses for Biden, but Palin is an idiot
no partisanship there

Biden made a slip up! Palin has no experience especially compared to Biden!
And I don't think is was really a slip up! I bet Biden knows there were shots fired during the Cold War especially since he was in the Senate at the end of the War! Biden is on Foreign Relations while Palin thinks that just because Russia is close by that means she has Foreign Relations experience.

 

[N4mddissent]

Who is making excuses? I said Biden was likely mistaken. I said it was a question of relevance.

Consider the effect. Biden's mistake was one that in no way affected the substance of his point. His point was leadership and how it requires communication with the public rather than rhetoric. The medium of that communication- right or wrong does not affect that point.

However, Palin demonstrating a lack of knowledge about the dominant foreign policy established over the last 7 years or her own running mate's record on regulation while making claims about regulation in the platform is not an irrelevant mistake while making a point that is otherwise sound, it becomes a point in and of itself.

And her comment about Russia was just an obvious attempt to avoid giving an honest answer about her lack of foreign policy experience. An answer which I think America would have accepted far more readily than her ham-handed attempt to create a smokescreen over the fact.

Do you think Biden was attempting to deceive Americans about the fact that it was really radio Roosevelt used? Was he trying to cover up the fact that Roosevelt gave fireside chats on the Radio? In the end does it matter if Biden knows whether fireside chats were on the radio instead of TV? Does it matter if Palin knows about major foreign policy issues? Does it matter if the record of the McCain-Palin ticket shows discrepancies with their platform?

There is a fundamental difference and if you can't see it, then you my friend have intentionally blinded yourself. I hope you will do a little self-reflection based on the series of questions I listed above.

P.S. Also wanted to mention that Biden not knowing what the hell he was talking back cannot be properly labeled as irrefutable. The fact that he said TV when it is almost certain that the speeches given were on radio is irrefutable, but that is far different than not knowing what the hell he is talking about.

When Bush was speaking to the Japanese Diet a few years back and misspoke saying: Japan and the US have be good friends and close allies for a century and a half,
I thought to myself, except for that whole dropping two nuclear weapons on major cities thing in the middle of a bloody war. Then I felt a bit embarrassed as an American citizen, laughed it off and moved on, realizing that it was a simple mistake and that he obviously (or perhaps hopefully) meant half a century rather than a century and a half. Everyone misspeaks occasionally. I, myself, was talking about this very issue to someone a few days ago and said Charlie Rose rather than Charlie Gibson. Just a slip while speaking. Two television personalities who conduct interviews. Easy to see how my impulses could travel the wrong neural pathway there. Corrected myself and moved on. It certainly didn't mean I didn't know what the hell I was talking about.

Palin's difficulties are not of this variety. There is not a misspoken answer to be concerned about- there is a lack of an answer or an answer that is ridiculous in its totality. Can anyone here actually, honestly, and factually defend her proximity to Russia = Foreign Policy remark? Can someone tell me which part of that is the misspoken part and then tell me what she really meant, as I have done with Biden's?

 

[N4mddissent]

And by the way, I never said Palin was an idiot. I made no comment on her competence at all. I merely presented a case that her responses receive more scrutiny than Biden's because they are more relevant to actual campaign issues. Please do not put words in my mouth when they are not anywhere implied in what I write. The fact that I presented the mistakes Palin made while answering and you took that as an implication that she is an idiot is more a commentary on your perception than mine.

 

[elvis]

Biden made a slip up! Palin has no experience especially compared to Biden!
And I don't think is was really a slip up! I bet Biden knows there were shots fired during the Cold War especially since he was in the Senate at the end of the War! Biden is on Foreign Relations while Palin thinks that just because Russia is close by that means she has Foreign Relations experience.

Obama has no experience compared to McCain. Biden says something stupid and it's a slip up. Palin says something stupid and she's a moron. Any fifth grader knows they didn't have television in 1929.

 

[N4mddissent]

Obama has no experience compared to McCain. Biden says something stupid and it's a slip up. Palin says something stupid and she's a moron. Any fifth grader knows they didn't have television in 1929.

Actually, television did exist in 1929. I mentioned the facts in my initial post. But obviously you're not reading them or at least not comprehending them. And after all of that information I provided and arguments I made, the person who made the above quote just ignores the arguments and makes his sad little comment which is basically a rip-off of an earlier comment that I addressed. And did he answer any of the questions I posed. No. But he did mention Obama who was not mentioned in any of my posts.

As a rational, thinking person who usually leans progressive, when I see these kinds of comments from people on who are on MY side of most issues I get just as disgusted as I do when I see it from those on the conservative side. Right now, I wonder if there are other conservatives here who are disgusted with that pointless response. I don't mind someone disagreeing with me if they present their case capably and logically where we can have a discussion and perhaps learn something from each other even if we don't convince each other. But your post just seems like you have minimal literary functionality and severe comprehension deficits. If you can't make a good argument, there are plenty of other places where you can troll where you may feel more comfortable. If you can make a good argument but didn't, then I respectfully ask you to not post at all if you're too lazy to post something reasonable.

 

[mdjgirl7]

i honestly think she is the dumbest candidate in our history. no wonder she is ducking the media.

Again really I think that would have been Bill Clinton with I did not have sex with that woman and then he ask them to define sex and that my dear was our President. BTW also a Dem

 

[mdjgirl7]

McCain doesn't even know how many homes he owns. That's way worse then not knowing who the president was in '29 in my book >_>

Huh you know what I think? I think I believe it was the men that have done a suck job at running this country. I don't think Sarah could do much worse do you?




Because the press are American citizens 1st, media 2nd. They know Palin doesn't know what the hell she is talking about. Plus the media doesn't want 4 more years of the last 8 years. Remember, McCain agrees with Bush 90% of the time -_-




She scares the crap outta me and a lot of other people because she can potentially become president of the United States of America if McCain wins the job. I'm not saying she isn't a smart woman, but it's evident this job isn't for her. She should go back to Alaska and continue doing what she was doing before McCain asked to be VP.






The reason they don't get drilled the same way she does is because they don't give back BULL$HIT answers. I'm not the most knowledgeable when it comes to politics but when I heard her replies after the questions were asked, I knew she was BS'n around. Especially with that Charles Gibson interview. She clearly tried to fish for an answer when he asked her about the Bush Doctrine. She woulda looked less stupid if she asked him what it was so she could give the best possible answer but she didn't do that. She said "In what respect Charlie?" trying to get Gibson to give her a little bit more information on what tjhe Bush Doctrine was. Plus she was avoiding the media ever sense being selected. That didn't help much either. If your VP, you wanna be on camera as much as possible trying to represent your party.

I wish Tim Russert we're still alive He would really expose her and he isn't biased. Not saying that Charles Gibson and Katie Couric are. She's the hockey mom from Alaska and they wanna know what she knows and what she's bout. If you fail with the media, you pretty much fail with the citizens and their votes.

Huh you know what I think? I think I believe it was the men that have done a suck job at running this country. I don't think Sarah could do much worse do you?

It is not like they just pulled her out of her home while she has been baby sitting and home making. She is the governor of Alaska which is funny since their are more men then women in Alaska. Sooo I don't think Mrs Palin is as dumb as the media would like to paint her. So she may not interview good that does not make her stupid. Sarah does have more executive experience then Obama oh wait she is not running for president now is she. Biden has more experience then Obama oh wait he is not running for president either.

Soo that means lots of us want to give the job of being our President to the person who has the least amount of experience out of all the candidates that are running for president and vice president. Some how this makes sense to so many go figure.


Take a peak at this you might be interested to see how our military feels about

Mr Obama [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG4fe9GlWS8]YouTube - Dear Mr. Obama[/ame]

 

[Diuretic]

Huh you know what I think? I think I believe it was the men that have done a suck job at running this country. I don't think Sarah could do much worse do you?

Tell me you're not serious.

 

[Care4all]

Huh you know what I think? I think I believe it was the men that have done a suck job at running this country. I don't think Sarah could do much worse do you?

It is not like they just pulled her out of her home while she has been baby sitting and home making. She is the governor of Alaska which is funny since their are more men then women in Alaska. Sooo I don't think Mrs Palin is as dumb as the media would like to paint her. So she may not interview good that does not make her stupid. Sarah does have more executive experience then Obama oh wait she is not running for president now is she. Biden has more experience then Obama oh wait he is not running for president either.

Soo that means lots of us want to give the job of being our President to the person who has the least amount of experience out of all the candidates that are running for president and vice president. Some how this makes sense to so many go figure.


Take a peak at this you might be interested to see how our military feels about

Mr Obama YouTube - Dear Mr. Obama

YES, she can do much much worse....she is not ready to hold the position of vp....

if you were talking about Hillary, then maybe you would have a point, but Sarah is not even in the ballpark compared to her and she just is not ready, yet, to be vice president....which sarah has made very clear to most all of us....

yes, there was hope when she was first nominated, but her inexperience has been exposed thru time and this is not the day and age where we can take a CHANCE that she is a good study and will learn quickly....

she needs to get some more world experience under her belt and more executive experience with being governor for longer than a year and a half...

Care

 

[mdjgirl7]

Tell me you're not serious.

Considering we are about to be 700 billion dollars in debt what do u think?

Think it through Palin is the governor of Alaska she was the mayor before that. Considering Alaska is majority men how stupid can she be? The media has jumped up and down on her neck since her named as McCain's VP. Could anyone of us stand up to their scrutiny? I doubt it the media can make anyone look like an idiot.

Example Bill Clinton I did not have sex with woman. Then he asked them to define sex. How big of a fool was he? And he was our president.

Everybody is talking about Palin like she is running for president which is not true and yes I am aware of the fact she could be if something were to happen to McCain. We could also end up with Biden and he thinks it would be patriotic to raise our taxes.

My point is none of these people got to be where they are because they are stupid. My point is pick your poison.

To make a obvious point the men got us in a war. The men are about to put us 700 billion dollars debt. The men on wall street stole us blind so a woman in office seriously you think she could make a bigger mess?

 

[mdjgirl7]

YES, she can do much much worse....she is not ready to hold the position of vp....

if you were talking about Hillary, then maybe you would have a point, but Sarah is not even in the ballpark compared to her and she just is not ready, yet, to be vice president....which sarah has made very clear to most all of us....

yes, there was hope when she was first nominated, but her inexperience has been exposed thru time and this is not the day and age where we can take a CHANCE that she is a good study and will learn quickly....

she needs to get some more world experience under her belt and more executive experience with being governor for longer than a year and a half...

Care

We could say the very exact same thing about Obama now couldn't we.

 

[Care4all]

We could say the very exact same thing about Obama now couldn't we.

no, not really....his 4 years in the usa senate, his world travels and meetings with leaders and his time spent in the illinois senate gives him a SLIGHTLY BETTER mark than her when it comes to experience...he also handles himself MUCH BETTER than she does....she is coming off as an airhead, with her recent interviews...this does not mean she can not overcome this in 4 years, but she is not ready now....

And i am no obamaite and just hate it when i have to defend him, but he is more experienced than she is....no question in my mind.

 

[mdjgirl7]

no, not really....his 4 years in the usa senate, his world travels and meetings with leaders and his time spent in the illinois senate gives him a SLIGHTLY BETTER mark than her when it comes to experience...he also handles himself MUCH BETTER than she does....she is coming off as an airhead, with her recent interviews...this does not mean she can not overcome this in 4 years, but she is not ready now....

And i am no obamaite and just hate it when i have to defend him, but he is more experienced than she is....no question in my mind.

Slightly better is key. Keep in mind Obama is running for PRESIDENT not VP. Want to talk experience then let's compare him to oh I don't know McCain. Senator McCain by far no question about it has more experience then Obama.

McCain has voted against his own party has Obama that would be a big fat NO. Has McCain applied for any pork again a big fat NO. Has Obama applied for pork hmmm yep but oh wait he suspended it after he wanted to run for president. A little wishy washy if you ask me.

Obama's experience in foreign policy is a joke compared to McCain. Seeing that the nut who runs Iran has openly threatened us I think I would rather have McCain respond that nut job then Obama inviting him over for tea.

Then there is Reverend Wright who is quite obviously a racist but Obama just did not know that and he was his minister for 20 years. Thank God Obama threw that nut of a minister under the bus huh. I wonder who else he will throw under the bus.

McCain's record for integrity is when he refused to be released form a POW camp without his men and was brutally beaten for that. McCain and Palin both have more to lose then most of us in the Iraq war their own flesh and blood.

You know I think the Dems could have done so much better if they had put Biden in as president and Obama as VP since Biden has way more experience then the Obama.

In my opinion I would rather have a experienced warrior as president then a cowardly smooth talking inexperienced show pony like Obama as president.

In case you missed another post I had take a peek at this and tell me what you think

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG4fe9GlWS8]YouTube - Dear Mr. Obama[/ame]

 

[kane3o1]

Considering we are about to be 700 billion dollars in debt what do u think?

Think it through Palin is the governor of Alaska she was the mayor before that. Considering Alaska is majority men how stupid can she be? The media has jumped up and down on her neck since her named as McCain's VP. Could anyone of us stand up to their scrutiny? I doubt it the media can make anyone look like an idiot.

Example Bill Clinton I did not have sex with woman. Then he asked them to define sex. How big of a fool was he? And he was our president.

Everybody is talking about Palin like she is running for president which is not true and yes I am aware of the fact she could be if something were to happen to McCain. We could also end up with Biden and he thinks it would be patriotic to raise our taxes.

My point is none of these people got to be where they are because they are stupid. My point is pick your poison.

To make a obvious point the men got us in a war. The men are about to put us 700 billion dollars debt. The men on wall street stole us blind so a woman in office seriously you think she could make a bigger mess?

How has the media been jumping up and down her neck ever sense she was picked as John McCain's running mate when she was in hiding? Remember, she avoided the media for some time after she was picked. Plus the media didn't jump down her neck when they finally did get the opportunity to do interviews with her. They asked her questions any other VP could answer but she gave BS answers or she didn't know what the hell she was talking about so that exposed her. She self-owned herself -_-


If she can't handle Katie Couric or Charles Gibson asking her questions she should already know, then how can she handle Vladimir Putin and Kim Jong-il if something we're to jump off

 

[DiveCon]

no, not really....his 4 years in the usa senate, his world travels and meetings with leaders and his time spent in the illinois senate gives him a SLIGHTLY BETTER mark than her when it comes to experience...he also handles himself MUCH BETTER than she does....she is coming off as an airhead, with her recent interviews...this does not mean she can not overcome this in 4 years, but she is not ready now....

And i am no obamaite and just hate it when i have to defend him, but he is more experienced than she is....no question in my mind.

no he isnt
he doesnt even have 4 years in the senate, and for 2 of them he has been campaigning more than legislating
and he has ZERO executive experience and Palin has 2 years as governor and then there is the time she served as a mayor, that counts too
if you claim Palin has no experience it is utterly stupid because Obama has LESS

 

[Shogun]

oh I know.. ANY mayor of a town with a monumental population of around 7k is probably well qualified to be a heart attack away from assuming the role of President.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

I think the real issue here is judgement and intelligence. Experience is only as good as the wisdom that comes from it. Sarah Palin lacks wisdom, intelligence, "GOOD" experience, and many of the other qualities that would make a good VP and potentially a good president. McCain, from my perspective, has some great qualities (many of which have disappeared since his 2000 campaign), but his judgement is not once of those qualities. He may have a lot of experience as a polititician but that may or may not be a good thing, and his experience may not have taught him the wisdom to be a great leader. Obama's judgement may lack in experience, but he has spent his whole life fighting for the working classes, working for community, for equal rights, for fairness and justice, and his policies are directed to benefit the majority of US citizens. He isn't running a campaign a vanity simply because he desires that title of President of the United States. He actually believes in what he is doing. I believe McCain also believes in what he is doing. McCain, however, has recently undermined his own integrity with the kind of campaign he is running, the spin he's put on Obama's policies, and his own voting record, and he's undermined his judgement by choosing Palin as his candidate. Not to mention his adherence to Bush's policies, and his belief in the flawed and greedy ideologies of the Republican party. Obama stands for peace, love for humanity, and community in the true sense of the word. McCain stands for military might, business over fellowship, and the almighty dollar. Palin, despite any misplaced belief in a liberal press (which from my liberal point of view is hardly liberal) does not interview or debate well. The press asks questions, it's up to the candidate to have the knowledge to answer those questions honestly, skillfully, and articulately. Don't blame the press. If the Republicans can't stand up to a biased media, then it's no one's fault but their own.

 

[Care4all]

no he isnt
he doesnt even have 4 years in the senate, and for 2 of them he has been campaigning more than legislating
and he has ZERO executive experience and Palin has 2 years as governor and then there is the time she served as a mayor, that counts too
if you claim Palin has no experience it is utterly stupid because Obama has LESS

no she isn't
she doesn't even have 2 years as governor. and for the last 2 months she's been campaigning more than governing....

(see, i can say the same as you only with her)

i just disagree with you dive....

i honestly do not believe she is seasoned enough, through her experience...

if this were kate bailey hutchinson....i'd feel differently....she would have more knowledge and experience than obama.

i don't think sarah is dumb though, i do think she would be a fairly quick study...i think she hasn't been exposed enough yet though and shows weakness...

my gut is telling me this, and yours is telling you otherwise i suppose...

and for the sake of being a tad righteous or conceited, i trust my gut instinct, (because it equals my feminine intuition), more than yours....

or any man's... because it has served me quite well, and i have witnessed it serving my mother quite well, as it has served my sister quite well, as it has served my girlfriends quite well etc....

Whereas my husband's read or gut is wrong more often, my father's gut or intuition is wrong more often when it comes to reading people too, as well as the male friends I have had over the years....ESPECIALLY when it comes down to "reading" a woman....

So, there is not much you can say to change my gut instinct on this....we will have to agree to disagree....

Care