One Brave Muslim! Sir I Salute You!

[Victory]

I didn't ask you where you were born.

Then I suppose I did you a favor.

No, But I'm familiar with a place called, Dooncoon, Michigan.

That'd probably be it. The word is "dune", by the way.

Alright Kalem, I will take pity on your ignorance towards the latest slang, but this will be the last time. "Dunecoon"< Gulf War era 90's . "Dooncoon"< Current Muslim extremist in America.

7.) Doon

"Seldom used to flag someone who is out to make drastic political changes. It may be used for one who's views favor radicalism or someone who wishes to be a revolutionary. Sometimes it is even used to pin someone as an anarchist."

Hang in there Kalam, You have a long way to go!

(Gosh....I think I've found a new message board.)

 

[Kalam]

I didn't ask you where you were born.

Then I suppose I did you a favor.

No, But I'm familiar with a place called, Dooncoon, Michigan.

That'd probably be it. The word is "dune", by the way.

"dune"< Lol! You sure your not straight off the boat, or are you just behind on the latest Muslim slang?

The term is "dune coon." You know, the racial slur "coon" combined with "dune", a reference to the deserts that seem to be characteristic of the Arab world. You must be from way down South, man, because this isn't rocket science.

 

[Victory]

I didn't ask you where you were born.

Then I suppose I did you a favor.

No, But I'm familiar with a place called, Dooncoon, Michigan.

That'd probably be it. The word is "dune", by the way.

Alright Kalem, I will take pity on your ignorance towards the latest slang, but this will be the last time. "Dunecoon"< Gulf War era 90's . "Dooncoon"< Current Muslim extremist in America.

7.) Doon

"Seldom used to flag someone who is out to make drastic political changes. It may be used for one who's views favor radicalism or someone who wishes to be a revolutionary. Sometimes it is even used to pin someone as an anarchist."

Hang in there Kalam, You have a long way to go!

(Gosh....I think I've found a new message board.)

And yes, I'm also well aware of the "Dune" term connected to the "Coon".(Sooo 90's)

 

[Kalam]

Alright Kalem, I will take pity on your ignorance towards the latest slang,

How gracious of you.

but this will be the last time.

Oh no, not that.

"Dunecoon"< Gulf War era 90's . "Dooncoon"< Current Muslim extremist in America.

7.) Doon

"Seldom used to flag someone who is out to make drastic political changes. It may be used for one who's views favor radicalism or someone who wishes to be a revolutionary. Sometimes it is even used to pin someone as an anarchist."

The only difference I see is that one of the slurs is spelled incorrectly. That's probably because it originated in Buttfuck, Mississippi or wherever it is that you call home.

Hang in there Kalam, You have a long way to go!

Wait... who are you again?

(Gosh....I think I've found a new message board.)

I don't know if USMB is worthy of a figure of your eminence, good sir, though I'm thankful that you've graced me with your presence.

 

[Victory]

Alright Kalem, I will take pity on your ignorance towards the latest slang,

How gracious of you.

but this will be the last time.

Oh no, not that.


The only difference I see is that one of the slurs is spelled incorrectly. That's probably because it originated in Buttfuck, Mississippi or wherever it is that you call home.

Hang in there Kalam, You have a long way to go!

Wait... who are you again?

(Gosh....I think I've found a new message board.)

I don't know if USMB is worthy of a figure of your eminence, good sir, though I'm thankful that you've graced me with your presence.

Like i said.....Hang in there, son. It looks like I'm gonna have to keep you constantly updated on the latest Muslim slang, but hey....I don't mind.

And again....Your very welcome~

 

[Kalam]

Islam does not permit the slaughter of non-combatants, but Shaykh ul-Qadri may be mistaken if he's suggesting that all acts of martyrdom are forbidden.

It is quite apparent that he was addressing the slaughter of non-combatants.

Yes, but he also made a bit of a blanket statement against "suicide bombing" that didn't take into account bombings that don't target civilians.

 

[Victory]

Well, It's obvious that Kalam is admitting just enough to stand firm, but not enough to sink his own boat. I've seen this time and time again. Muslims are the masters of deceit, and i mean that.

Islam definitely isn't the best when it comes to integrating and living along side one another. They are not logical. Christians, Catholics, Presbyterians, Baptist, Lutherans, etc we all get along here. Muslim reasoning is corrupted by their fanatical beliefs. A prime example of this is the covenant of Hamas which declares that negotiations can no longer be accepted as a means to reach its goals and that only a violent Jihad is acceptable.

So if civil negotiations are pointless and the act of even trying to make peace with them is war then I don't see any reason to pretend to respect them - I don't. I don't respect their goals, I don't respect their beliefs, and I don't respect their institutions.

It's no secret that Islamists are deeply offensive, and I for one could give two shits. And if this leaves one perplexed then i suggest you find a world map and get a sense of exactly where you are. This isn't Europe this is America, and Islam will not be granted special privileges like some sort of pathetic charity case. We're not going to tip-toe on egg shells just to appease you. Your own moderate Muslim brethren may be intimidated by their big bad brothers but i don't give a damn whether your offended or not. I don't give a damn in private, I don't give a damn in public, and I don't give a damn in the streets.

And don't think we don't take note to the mean looks you big bad Muslim extremist have on your faces when we pass you on the streets. I see ya, and I look right at ya....but you don't stare for long do you?

But what about the moderate Muslims? Tough shit that's what. That's America, and we call that freedom. Freedom means - People that don't find a common ground with your beliefs don’t have to respect them so long as they abide by the rest of the laws that govern their interactions with you.

And that'll do for now.

 

[Kalam]

 

[Si modo]

-As I said, values have little to nothing to do with foreign policy.
-Then they're hollow and worthless.
-Not to the nations who practice them.​

It seems to me that "they" pretty clearly refers to values rather than foreign policies.

....

LMAO. The irony there is gorgeous. That is a great example of improper use of a pronoun without an antecedent.

Erm... "values" is the only noun to which "they" could have referred. ....

Funny how you had to specifically edit out the exchange showing your improper use of a pronoun (because of ambiguous antecedents). That's OK; I've added it back in for you. Obviously you realize your error, but like the good little Muslim that you are, it's OK to lie to an infidel like me about it.

As you've set the tone for continued dishonesty, which you justify as a good little Muslim, already, there is no reason to respond to the rest of your drivel. You lie about grammar, for God's sake.

It has a 50% chance of being honest.

 

[Kalam]

[Funny how you had to specifically edit out the exchange showing your improper use of a pronoun (because of ambiguous antecedents). That's OK; I've added it back in for you.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

-As I said, values have little to nothing to do with foreign policy.
-Then they're hollow and worthless.
​

You tell me how "they" could possibly have referred to anything else. I can almost feel myself getting stupider every second I spend posting in this thread.

Obviously you realize your error, but like the good little Muslim that you are, it's OK to lie to an infidel like me about it.

How convenient for you. Now, instead of taking the time to come up with a substantive response when you're debating a Muslim, you can accuse him of dishonesty and anything he says can be dismissed as part of the nefarious Islamic plot to achieve world domination through lies!

Don't be an ass.

As you've set the tone for continued dishonesty, which you justify as a good little Muslim, already, there is no reason to respond to the rest of your drivel.

It has a 50% chance of being honest.

See above. Way to prove me right.

 

[Si modo]

[Funny how you had to specifically edit out the exchange showing your improper use of a pronoun (because of ambiguous antecedents). That's OK; I've added it back in for you.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

-As I said, values have little to nothing to do with foreign policy.
-Then they're hollow and worthless.
​

You tell me how "they" could possibly have referred to anything else. I can almost feel myself getting stupider every second I spend posting in this thread.
....

I linked to an explanation of your error - ambiguous antecedents. The irony of your continued dishonesty with this is amazing.

This is elementary English, yet you need to lie about it. It's OK to lie about it, too, because I am an ifidel. And, like a good little Muslim, you cannot acept responsibility for even the smallest of things. LMAO!

From the link you didn't read and were deceitful because .you ask me to tell you how your pronoun could have referred to anything else when I already explained with the link):

Ambiguous Antecedent

A pronoun's antecedent must be unambiguous. Sometimes there may be more than one word the pronoun could refer to. In a case like that, it may be better not to use the pronoun.

Incorrect: The suitcase was on the plane, but now it's gone.
(What is gone? The suitcase or the plane?)

Correct: The suitcase was on the plane, but now the suitcase is gone.

Obviously you realize your error, but like the good little Muslim that you are, it's OK to lie to an infidel like me about it.

How convenient for you. Now, instead of taking the time to come up with a substantive response when you're debating a Muslim, you can accuse him of dishonesty and anything he says can be dismissed as part of the nefarious Islamic plot to achieve world domination through lies!

Don't be an ass.

As you've set the tone for continued dishonesty, which you justify as a good little Muslim, already, there is no reason to respond to the rest of your drivel.

It has a 50% chance of being honest.

See above. Way to prove me right.

Not quite. You keep digging the deceit hole for yourself quite well. Deceit on top of deceit to this infidel. You do Islam proud.

 

[Kalam]

I linked to an explanation of your error - ambiguous antecedents. The irony of your continued dishonesty with this is amazing.

This is elementary English, yet you need to lie about it. It's OK to lie about it, too, because I am an ifidel. And, like a good little Muslim, you cannot acept responsibility for even the smallest of things. LMAO!

How convenient for you. Now, instead of taking the time to come up with a substantive response when you're debating a Muslim, you can accuse him of dishonesty and anything he says can be dismissed as part of the nefarious Islamic plot to achieve world domination through lies!

From the link you didn't read and were deceitful because .you ask me to tell you how your pronoun could have referred to anything else when I already explained with the link):

I'm familiar with pronouns and antecedents, thanks. I'll make this as simple as possible for you. "They" is a plural pronoun, correct? List all of the plural nouns in the following sentence:

-As I said, values have little to nothing to do with foreign policy.​

Not quite. You keep digging the deceit hole for yourself quite well. Deceit on top of deceit to this infidel. You do Islam proud.

How convenient for you. Now, instead of taking the time to come up with a substantive response when you're debating a Muslim, you can accuse him of dishonesty and anything he says can be dismissed as part of the nefarious Islamic plot to achieve world domination through lies!

 

[California Girl]

The policies. The foreign policies you said are hollow and worthless because they serve the interests of the countries. They (the foreign policies) are not hollow and worthless to the nations who practice them.

That's not what was argued in the first place. I said that "western values" appear to be hollow and worthless if they don't influence the West's conduct abroad.

Asked and answered. Now, two posters have said exactly what we mean. Leave if you cannot separate your religion from your state. This is no place for you.

I've made it clear that I have no interest in seeing the political landscape of the US altered in such a way. I must ask that you stop telling me to leave the country as if you have the authority to do so.

Islamic fundamentalists in power: the first cracks start to appear

A blog entry hosted by the British equivalent of FOX News?

Excuse me? The Telegraph is the equivalent of Fox News? Ummmmmm. No. It is not.

 

[Kalam]

Excuse me? The Telegraph is the equivalent of Fox News? Ummmmmm. No. It is not.

It's not nearly as goofy, but the conservative bias is about as apparent. The Guardian, on the other hand, has an apparent left-wing bias. These are simply my perceptions.

 

[Si modo]

I linked to an explanation of your error - ambiguous antecedents. The irony of your continued dishonesty with this is amazing.

This is elementary English, yet you need to lie about it. It's OK to lie about it, too, because I am an ifidel. And, like a good little Muslim, you cannot acept responsibility for even the smallest of things. LMAO!

How convenient for you. Now, instead of taking the time to come up with a substantive response when you're debating a Muslim, you can accuse him of dishonesty and anything he says can be dismissed as part of the nefarious Islamic plot to achieve world domination through lies!

I'm familiar with pronouns and antecedents, thanks. I'll make this as simple as possible for you. "They" is a plural pronoun, correct? List all of the plural nouns in the following sentence:

-As I said, values have little to nothing to do with foreign policy.​

Here, let me show you how to accept responsibility for your own errors and be honest: Yes, there is only one plural noun. I concede that.

Even after you twice call me a ****, I still know how to take the high road, as I usually do.

I would ask you a question about deceit being justified in Islam, thus Muslims having no cred with me, but this tells me all I need to know about your practice of deceit:

DECEPTION AND DECEIT

Islamic ethics is based upon dualism. There is one set of rules for the Muslim and another set of rules for the kafir. Islamic ethical dualism extends to truth and deceit.

TRUTH
In Islam something that is not true is not always a lie.
Bukhari 3,49,857 Mohammed: "A man who brings peace to the people by making up good words or by saying nice things, though untrue, does not lie."

An oath by a Muslim is flexible.
Bukhari 8,78,618 Abu Bakr faithfully kept his oaths until Allah revealed to Mohammed the atonement for breaking them. Afterwards he said, "If I make a pledge and later discover a more worthy pledge, then I will take the better action and make amends for my earlier promise."

When deception advances Islam, the deception is not a sin.
Bukhari 5,59,369 Mohammed asked, "Who will kill Ka'b, the enemy of Allah and Moham-med?"
Bin Maslama rose and responded, "O Mohammed! Would it please you if I killed him?"
Mohammed answered, "Yes."
Bin Maslama then said, "Give me permission to deceive him with lies so that my plot will succeed."
Mohammed replied, "You may speak falsely to him."

Ali was raised by Mohammed from the age of ten and became the fourth caliph. Ali pronounced the following on lies and deception.
Bukhari 9,84,64 When I relate to you the words of Mohammed, by Allah, I would rather die than bear false witness to his teachings. However, if I should say something unrelated to the prophet, then it might very well be a lie so that I might deceive my enemy. Without question, I heard Mohammed say, "In the final days before Redemption there will emerge groups of foolish youths who will say all the right things but their faith will go no further than their mouths and will flee from their religion like an arrow. So, kill the apostates wherever you find them, because whoever does so will be rewarded on Judgment Day."

Deceit is part of Islamic war against the kafirs.
Bukhari 4,52,267 Mohammed: "The king of Persia will be destroyed, and no one shall assume his throne. Caesar will certainly be destroyed and no Caesar will follow him; his coffers will be spent in Allah's cause [jihad]." Mohammed cried out, "Jihad is deceit."

Deceit in war, the community and marriage:
Muslim 032,6303 According to Mohammed, someone who strives to promote harmony amongst the faithful and says or conveys good things is not a liar. Ibn Shihab said that he had heard only three exceptions to the rules governing false statements: lies are permissible in war, to reconcile differences between the faithful, and to reconcile a husband and wife through the manipulation or twisting of words.

TAQIYYA
The name for deception that advances Islam is taqiyya (safeguard, concealment, piety). But a Muslim must never lie to another Muslim. A lie should never be told unless there is no other way to accomplish the task. Kitman is a form of deceit that consists of not telling the whole truth.

Here are two examples of sacred deceit, taqiyya. They are taken from Ishaq (the Sira, Mohammed's biography):
Ishaq 224 A member of the Abyssinian royalty, called the Negus, became convinced of the truth of Islam. He was accused by the Christians of leaving his religion. The Negus wrote on a piece of paper, "There is no god but Allah and Mohammed is his prophet. Jesus was a Muslim, born of Mary, conceived without a father." He then pinned the statement under his shirt over his heart. When the other Abyssinians accused the Negus of leaving Christianity and they said, "Jesus was the Son of God." The Negus placed his hand over his heart (and the paper with the statement) and told the Christians, "I testify that Jesus was no more than this." The Christians took him at his word and left him. When Mohammed heard this, he prayed for the Negus when he died.

Ishaq 771 After the conquest of the Jews at Khaybar, al Hajjaj asked Mohammed if he could go to Mecca and get money owed to him by merchants there. He told Mohammed that he would have to tell lies in order to get his money. Mohammed told him to tell the lies.

There is a special case of deception mentioned in the Koran. It is acceptable to be deceptive about Islam as long as there is belief in the heart.
16:106 Those who disbelieve in Allah after having believed [became apostates], who open their hearts to disbelief, will feel the wrath of Allah and will have a terrible punishment--except there is no punishment for anyone who is compelled by force to deny Allah in words, but whose heart is faithful .

This material is not all of the doctrine on deceit, but it is enough to make the case that deceit is part of Islamic ethics.

http://www.politicalislam.com/blog/the-doctrine-of-deceit/

Others should read that. It was enlightening and explains much.

 

[Kalam]

Here, let me show you how to accept responsibility for your own errors and be honest: Yes, there is only one plural noun. I concede that.

Thank you.

I would ask you a question about deceit being justified in Islam, thus Muslims having no cred with me, but this tells me all I need to know about your practice of deceit:

DECEPTION AND DECEIT

Oh, a blog post. How lovely.

Islamic ethics is based upon dualism. There is one set of rules for the Muslim and another set of rules for the kafir. Islamic ethical dualism extends to truth and deceit.

TRUTH
In Islam something that is not true is not always a lie.
Bukhari 3,49,857 Mohammed: "A man who brings peace to the people by making up good words or by saying nice things, though untrue, does not lie."

Narrated Umm Kulthum bint Uqba: That she heard Allah's Apostle saying, "He who makes peace between the people by inventing good information or saying good things, is not a liar." - Sahih Bukhari, Peacemaking, no. 857​

A distinction must be made between equivocation and lying outright. The former is permitted only in three specific circumstances according to the authentic hadith collections recognized by the Ahl as-Sunnah (Sunnis). The latter is explicitly prohibited according to the same authentic ahadith.

The circumstances:

Humaid b. 'Abd al-Rahman b. 'Auf reported that his mother, Umm Kulthum, daughter of 'Uqba b. Abu Mu'ait and one among the first emigrants who pledged allegiance to Allah's Apostle, as saying that she heard Allah's Messenger saying, "A liar is not one who tries to bring reconciliation amongst people and speaks good or conveys good." Ibn Shihab said that he did not hear that exemption was granted to what is spoken dishonestly but in three cases: in battle, for bringing reconciliation amongst persons, and the narration of the words of a husband to his wife, and the narration of the words of a wife to her husband (in a twisted form in order to bring reconciliation between them). - Sahih Muslim; Virtue, Good Manners, and Relationships; no. 6303​

As you can see, Muslims, or at least the Ahl as-Sunnah, are not given free license to lie to people simply because they're non-Muslims. Habitual dishonesty and equivocating in inappropriate situations are grave sins:

Narrated 'Abdullah: The Prophet said, "Truthfulness leads to righteousness, and righteousness leads to Paradise. And a man keeps on telling the truth until he becomes a truthful person. Falsehood leads to wickedness, wickedness leads to the Fire, and a man who persists in telling lies is recorded before Allah as a liar." - Sahih Bukhari, Good Manners, no. 116

Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "The signs of a hypocrite are three: Whenever he speaks, he tells a lie; whenever he promises, he breaks his promise; and whenever he is entrusted, he betrays." - Sahih Bukhari, Good Manners, no. 117

Narrated Samura bin Jundub: The Prophet said, "I dreamt that two men came to me." Then the Prophet narrated the story: "They said, 'The person whose cheek you saw being torn away was a liar and used to spread falsehood, and the people would report those lies on his authority until they spread all over the world. Thus, he will be punished like this until the Day of Resurrection."' - Sahih Bukhari, Good Manners, no. 118​

The viewpoints and interpretations I've presented seem to be in line with those promulgated by some of Islam's foremost scholars, including the eminent and somewhat controversial Shaykh Yusuf al-Qaradawi.

See:
Lying Is Not a Trait of the Muslim - IslamonLine.net - Ask The Scholar
Lying When Speaking to Non-Muslims - IslamonLine.net - Ask The Scholar

An oath by a Muslim is flexible.

Bukhari 8,78,618 Abu Bakr faithfully kept his oaths until Allah revealed to Mohammed the atonement for breaking them. Afterwards he said, "If I make a pledge and later discover a more worthy pledge, then I will take the better action and make amends for my earlier promise."

Narrated 'Aisha: Abu Bakr As-Siddiq had never broken his oaths until Allah revealed the expiation for the oaths. Then he said, "If I take an oath to do something and later on I find something else better than the first one, then I do what is better and make expiation for my oath." - Sahih Bukhari, Oaths and Vows, no. 618​

The quoted text at the end of the hadith above is a direct reference to an incident involving one such oath made by Muhammad (SAWS). Initially, Muhammad refused to supply a group of immigrants with mounts. When additional camels were brought to him, however, he changed his mind to reflect the change in circumstances and provided them with mounts. These "oaths" are not binding agreements made with other people, but pledges one makes about one's own conduct. The Qur'an itself makes this clear:

O Prophet, why dost thou forbid (thyself) that which Allah has made lawful for thee? Thou seekest to please thy wives, and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. Allah indeed has sanctioned for you the expiation of your oaths; and Allah is your Patron, and He is the Knowing, the Wise. - 66:1-2​

From the Qur'anic commentary of Maulana Muhammad 'Ali:

"It is wrong to suppose that this verse sanctions the expiation of all kinds of oaths. Reading it along with the previous verses shows that the oaths referred to are in relation to vows, etc., by which one forbids oneself what is otherwise lawful. The injunction at the end of this verse, keep your oaths, also shows that oaths cannot be violated generally, and therefore expiation is only allowed in the case of oaths by which a man deprives himself of some lawful thing or of an occasion of virtue, as in 2:226. It is further evident that the Book which lays stress upon the faithful performance of all kinds of engagements could not allow the violating of agreements which had been confirmed with oaths."​

It is made abundantly clear that agreements with others are to be upheld as long as they're respected by the other party:

Except those of the idolaters with whom you made an agreement, then they have not failed you in anything and have not backed up any one against you; so fulfil their agreement to the end of their term. Surely Allah loves those who keep their duty. - 9:4

And if thou fear treachery on the part of a people, throw back to them (their treaty) on terms of equality. Surely Allah loves not the treacherous. - 8:58​

When deception advances Islam, the deception is not a sin.
Bukhari 5,59,369 Mohammed asked, "Who will kill Ka'b, the enemy of Allah and Moham-med?"
Bin Maslama rose and responded, "O Mohammed! Would it please you if I killed him?"
Mohammed answered, "Yes."
Bin Maslama then said, "Give me permission to deceive him with lies so that my plot will succeed."
Mohammed replied, "You may speak falsely to him."

Ka'b ibn al-Ashraf was a tribal leader who provided assistance to the forces of the enemy Quraysh and who organized a plot to assassinate Muhammad. Of course it was necessary to dispose of him; the suggestion that dishonesty toward him was permitted to "advance Islam" rather than to eliminate a person who threatened to destroy it is laughable.

"Now Aus had killed Ka'b b. al-Ashraf before Uhud because of his enmity toward the Apostle and because he had instigated men against him..." - Sirat Rasul Allah, 714​

Ali was raised by Mohammed from the age of ten and became the fourth caliph. Ali pronounced the following on lies and deception.
Bukhari 9,84,64 When I relate to you the words of Mohammed, by Allah, I would rather die than bear false witness to his teachings. However, if I should say something unrelated to the prophet, then it might very well be a lie so that I might deceive my enemy. Without question, I heard Mohammed say, "In the final days before Redemption there will emerge groups of foolish youths who will say all the right things but their faith will go no further than their mouths and will flee from their religion like an arrow. So, kill the apostates wherever you find them, because whoever does so will be rewarded on Judgment Day."

Narrated 'Ali: Whenever I tell you a narration from Allah's Apostle, by Allah, I would rather fall down from the sky than ascribe a false statement to him, but if I tell you something between me and you then it was indeed a trick. No doubt I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "During the last days there will appear some young foolish people who will say the best words but their faith will not go beyond their throats, and they will go out from their religion as an arrow goes out of the game. So, where-ever you find them, kill them, for who-ever kills them shall have reward on the Day of Resurrection." - Sahih Bukhari, Dealing with Renegades, no. 64​

I don't see anything here other than 'Ali implying that he deceives his enemies. It would be a bit ridiculous to demand that people tell the truth to their enemies during battle, would it not?

Deceit is part of Islamic war against the kafirs.
Bukhari 4,52,267 Mohammed: "The king of Persia will be destroyed, and no one shall assume his throne. Caesar will certainly be destroyed and no Caesar will follow him; his coffers will be spent in Allah's cause [jihad]." Mohammed cried out, "Jihad is deceit."

Emphasis mine. Most of the renderings used by your blog are inaccurate to some degree, but this is downright misleading. The word used is not "jihad", though that is the name of the book in which the hadith can be found.

Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "Khosrau will be ruined, and there will be no Khosrau after him, and Caesar will surely be ruined and there will be no Caesar after him, and you will spend their treasures in Allah's Cause." He called, "War is deceit'. - Sahih Bukhari, Jihad, no. 267​

The blog dishonestly implies that deceit can be used against all "kafirs." It is quite clear in this hadith that deceit is being used only against those with whom the Muslims were at war.

Deceit in war, the community and marriage:

Already addressed.

TAQIYYA
The name for deception that advances Islam is taqiyya (safeguard, concealment, piety). But a Muslim must never lie to another Muslim. A lie should never be told unless there is no other way to accomplish the task. Kitman is a form of deceit that consists of not telling the whole truth.

Incorrect. "Taqiyya" is the name that the Shi'iat 'Ali gave to a doctrine that allows Muslims to conceal their true religious beliefs if failure to do so will lead to their death. I see nothing wrong with that and I have no real interest in defending or discussing Shi'ite beliefs anyway.

Here are two examples of sacred deceit, taqiyya. They are taken from Ishaq (the Sira, Mohammed's biography):
Ishaq 224 A member of the Abyssinian royalty, called the Negus, became convinced of the truth of Islam. He was accused by the Christians of leaving his religion. The Negus wrote on a piece of paper, "There is no god but Allah and Mohammed is his prophet. Jesus was a Muslim, born of Mary, conceived without a father." He then pinned the statement under his shirt over his heart. When the other Abyssinians accused the Negus of leaving Christianity and they said, "Jesus was the Son of God." The Negus placed his hand over his heart (and the paper with the statement) and told the Christians, "I testify that Jesus was no more than this." The Christians took him at his word and left him. When Mohammed heard this, he prayed for the Negus when he died.

The Negus was threatened with death if he failed to give the impression that he supported Christian beliefs. Moreover, the text says that Muhammad (SAWS) "begged that his (the Negus's) sins might be forgiven." Why was this left out?

Ishaq 771 After the conquest of the Jews at Khaybar, al Hajjaj asked Mohammed if he could go to Mecca and get money owed to him by merchants there. He told Mohammed that he would have to tell lies in order to get his money. Mohammed told him to tell the lies.

According to the text, al-Hajjaj ibn 'Ilat al-Sulami gave the Makkans the impression that he was not a Muslim and told them that Muhammad (SAWS) had been captured. This was permissible because the Makkans (Quraysh) were at war with the believers and because al-Hajjaj's deception prevented him from being harmed on account of his beliefs.

There is a special case of deception mentioned in the Koran. It is acceptable to be deceptive about Islam as long as there is belief in the heart.
16:106 Those who disbelieve in Allah after having believed [became apostates], who open their hearts to disbelief, will feel the wrath of Allah and will have a terrible punishment--except there is no punishment for anyone who is compelled by force to deny Allah in words, but whose heart is faithful .

See above. Of course we aren't expected to tell our enemies that we're Muslims if doing so will cause us to be harmed or killed.

This material is not all of the doctrine on deceit, but it is enough to make the case that deceit is part of Islamic ethics.

It's about what I'd expect from a blog. A bit better than Evangelical Christian sites like "Answering Islam", but dishonest and generally ignorant of Islamic scripture and teachings nonetheless.

 

[amrchaos]

To Si Modo


I am a little confused. You are telling someone that they must leave this great nation of ours if they cannot seperate their religion from their politics. Yet, is it not true that most Americans refer to their religion to determine their politics?

Also, the concept of marydom exists in Christianity. The very concept of Christianity is based on and celebrates the martydom of one Jesus Christs. Then can I therefore surmise that Christianity also embraces martydom in its own religion. Of course someone may point and suggest that this form of martydom is only for Christ--but this is not true due to the letters or Mark in which he mentions the sacrifices of early christians in his letters to his peers. In other words, martyrdom is also for Christians.


In regards to these peculiarities to christianity and how it is similiar to some of the beliefs in Islam, I am quite confused with the theological angles discussed between you, Si Modo and Kalam, within this thread. Can you please clarify the matter for me?

Thank you

amrchaos
agnostic/atheists

 

[Kalam]

In regards to these peculiarities to christianity and how it is similiar to some of the beliefs in Islam, I am quite confused with the theological angles discussed between you, Si Modo and Kalam, within this thread. Can you please clarify the matter for me?

Thank you

amrchaos
agnostic/atheists

Based on what she's read on an anti-Islamic blog, Si Modo asserts that Islam permits lying to unbelievers. Using scripture and other canonical writings, I attempted to make it clear that honesty is required in all but three specific situations, none of which have anything to do with "lying to infidels" or lying in an attempt to improve the image of Islam.

 

[nia588]

People act like he is the first scholar to denounce suicide bombings. Conservative Muslim scholars in Saudi have been saying for years that suicide bombing is haraam. Its just the western media never reports it because they generally report the things that make Muslims look like barbaric vikings.

Majority of Muslims do not believe in suicide bombing. it's only the minority nutters who believe in it.

 

[Si modo]

Maybe the Muslims can have a street party celebrating the words of this Imam. They like celebrating in the streets.