On health care, both sides are nuts.

[Mac1958]

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The moment an issue becomes political, it becomes a bad joke.

The lefties are ideologically obligated to defend and spin for Obamacare because it essentially has a (D) after it, even though it's a massive handout to Those Evil Insurance Companies. One can only imagine how much that galls them, but they have to be good soldiers. They have also convinced themselves that, since our existing system has problems, ANY new system will be better. Breathtakingly simplistic.

On the other end, we have the righties, who are ideologically obligated to just say "no" to anything the Democrats suggest, for fear of being primaried, even if there are good parts to the idea (or even more amusing, ideas that they used to support, holy shit). Some of them claim they have offered alternatives, even though you NEVER see them offering a specific plan in the zillions of teevee interviews they do; the rest of them have somehow convinced themselves that offering NO alternative is the better approach. So how's that working out for you? For sick people? For the country?

Here's one issue I absolutely NEVER see addressed: In the "plans" (cough) from EITHER screwed up party, NO ONE is pointing out the fact that we have six, count 'em, SIX different elements in play when delivering health care to different Americans:

1. Group health insurance
2. Individual health insurance
3. Medicare
4. Medicaid
5. VA
6. Indigent care

This is fucking STUPID. Obamacare does nothing to address this absurdity; the GOP, uh, "plans" do nothing to address this absurdity. The Democrats are too busy worrying about income redistribution and buying votes, the Republicans are too worried about appearing to be reasonable and dealing with the subsequent and inevitable primary attack from their right.

Defend your "side" all you want - both parties are causing great damage to our health care system by putting politics on top of the priority list, as usual.

A pox on both houses.

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[depotoo]

.

The moment an issue becomes political, it becomes a bad joke.

The lefties are ideologically obligated to defend and spin for Obamacare because it essentially has a (D) after it, even though it's a massive handout to Those Evil Insurance Companies. One can only imagine how much that galls them, but they have to be good soldiers. They have also convinced themselves that, since our existing system has problems, ANY new system will be better. Breathtakingly simplistic.

On the other end, we have the righties, who are ideologically obligated to just say "no" to anything the Democrats suggest, for fear of being primaried, even if there are good parts to the idea (or even more amusing, ideas that they used to support, holy shit). Some of them claim they have offered alternatives, even though you NEVER see them offering a specific plan in the zillions of teevee interviews they do; the rest of them have somehow convinced themselves that offering NO alternative is the better approach. So how's that working out for you? For sick people? For the country?

Here's one issue I absolutely NEVER see addressed: In the "plans" (cough) from EITHER screwed up party, NO ONE is pointing out the fact that we have six, count 'em, SIX different elements in play when delivering health care to different Americans:

1. Group health insurance
2. Individual health insurance
3. Medicare
4. Medicaid
5. VA
6. Indigent care

This is fucking STUPID. Obamacare does nothing to address this absurdity; the GOP, uh, "plans" do nothing to address this absurdity. The Democrats are too busy worrying about income redistribution and buying votes, the Republicans are too worried about appearing to be reasonable and dealing with the subsequent and inevitable primary attack from their right.

Defend your "side" all you want - both parties are causing great damage to our health care system by putting politics on top of the priority list, as usual.

A pox on both houses.

.

just to refresh memories -

Unfortunately, the network can cover only those congressional meetings held in the public. Voters hoping to follow the process of the House and Senate working out the differences of their respective healthcare reform bills are left in the dark. C-SPAN will not be covering the House-Senate conference on the legislation because there will not be any such conference. As reported by the Associated Press, Congressional Quarterly, USA Today, the Washington Post, and, not insignificantly, Peter Roff with U.S. News & World Report, House and Senate Democrats will negotiate the legislation in private, far away from the prying eyes of Capitol Hill Republicans and far away from prying cameras.
C-SPAN Demands Democrats Open Secret Health Reform Talks - Doug Heye (usnews.com)

Who got locked out of the process to begin with?

 

[BlackSand]

Where it was bad enough that Congress passed the ACA … What either side wants to do is too little-too late in one simple way.

Since the ACA is a bastardized version of poor attempts to draw us closer to a single payer system ... It has been, and will continue to be a miserable failure at accomplishing even the most broad reforms resulting in actual improvements for the majority of Americans.
On the other hand … It is too late to delay its implementation in attempts to salvage the lost … In as the passing the ACA has already forced private insurers to adapt their policies to the new standards.
Just because those standards are only now going into effect … Doesn't mean that private insurers haven't spent an enormous amount of time and capital on the conversion.

Unlike the Federal Government … Private Insurers don't have bottomless pockets, or the ability to keep borrowing money they will never pay back.

Private insurers don't have the support of government to finance their debt in attempts to divide the electorate.
Even if there is a delay in the Individual Mandate … Or a complete scrapping of the ACA … The money they have spent on the conversion thus far would simply be lost to Congressional political games.
The money for that conversion as far as private insurers are concerned … Comes from the people that purchase their insurance … And doesn't come from the community pot.

That means that in the case you did like your insurance … And Congress is willing to let you keep the plan you had … It is still going to cost you more, even if it means you are just paying for the screw-up Congress already made.

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[deltex1]

The problem isnt the number of "elements"...it is getting the management of each element correct.

 

[BlackSand]

The problem isnt the number of "elements"...it is getting the management of each element correct.

I just think the problem is ... The management has already been dictated by the law ... And what was dictated isn't sufficient in addressing the management problems.
They have already changed the management of the elements ... That process is already history .
Whatever we do now will only be attempts to fix the screw-ups already put in place by the ACA ... The process already has a cost, and people will be paying for it no matter what we do to try and fix it.

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